wyld1 said:

I pay $450/year for car insurance. Can't touch that, either. Can't resell it. And if I use it, it'll be more expensive next year.

77 cents per download is looking better and better.

alandail said:

and on the iPod mini.

rialb said:

cmf

*** A retail store buys a CD for about $7.50. Then they jack the price way up and you pay somewhere from $10.99-$24.99. ***

Do you have any experience in music retail??? Coz I wanna know how you're paying $7.50 for new cd's... Maybe old stuff (actually in the $7.80 - $9.59 range, for a $13.99 retail), but new stuff is in the $10.84 - $12.12 range, for a 16.99 retail (exc the malls, which go for $18.99)...

I know this has relatively nothing to do w/ the thread, but people don't realize how small the margin on retail music is (I'm speaking on the indie side, to hell w/ the chains...).

77cents is okay for download prices, but not worth my time or money for .wma files. I'm running windows98, so WM9 is outta the equation... And if all it's gonna be is the new album, I'll wait for the Cincinnati show to get my copy...

Next year at x-mas burn copies of downloaded songs
& give that as your x-mas presents.
See how much people think a home burned cd is worth.
I doubt it will be of unending joy.
Especially if you give a cd of music they already have.
Can't return downloads & exchange them.

thedoorkeeper said:

I've done that for the last 5 years or so, and in fact earlier today my mom was raving about some Italian-American Love Songs compilation I put together for her back in the heyday of Napster.

thedoorkeeper said:

OK...but after all, it's not the Musicology Christmas Store.

less
than
a
buck

cuz
they
probably
s_ _ _

JC said:

Why can't he just give us some shiny CD's?
Downloads are nice but I want better quality on a slighly better storage medium than a CD-R.


And also:
Don't talk about cost of bandwidth, infrastructure, recording equipment etc.
If those prices are necessary where do you get the goods?!
Further, about recording and such:
It's all been done before. Just push those tracks through LAME and voila.
Next is a usable frontend for the shop and we're in business.

Doozer said:

Okay, it "makes it sound like you are giving 77 cents away for nothing in return", but in reality you are not giving 77 cents away. Instead you are buying a license to listen to a copy protected music file. When you buy a CD you do not buy a license to listen , but you buy a piece of property (the CD). This in itself should already make a licensed download cheaper.

As for the costs; when you buy a CD you primarily pay for your copy of the intangible recorded musical work on the CD. But secondarily, you also pay for the artwork, pictures, printed lyrics, the jewel case and the CD production, distribution and promotion costs. Then, ultimately you pay the retailer's profit margins. ALL THAT, except for paying for the intangible recorded work, is missing from a computer file distributed over the internet. Logically, this would have to lead to a substantially cheaper price per copy of the recorded work.

Sure, if you don't really want his new music then nobody is forcing you to buy. But, Prince and the NPGMC know you want the new music, know you prefer to get it legally, know you would like to support them and know that if they then only make it avalaible to you through copy protected and licensed downloads you have NO other choice than to swallow all the licensed copy protected crap they want you to.


First of all, 77 cents is a silly price. 77 cents makes no sense, other than that Prince likes to play with the number 7. In other words the 77 cents price is BULLSHIT. Secondly, you can expect that the files won't play on the platform of your choice, but only on a limited amount of platforms, let alone they can be copied freely for personal use.

Further, it's logical that other download services are more expensive since there are large corporations behind those, who can't have it any other way than 99 cents per download due to copyright owner's demands, and due to more overhead. In the case of the NPGMC all that is absent (the "middlemen" are cut out and Prince can freely and easily license his own music to his own club).

Lastly, don't believe the hype that the music will be "exclusive". You can expect the downloads to become avalaible cheaper somewhere else after the club milked all the money out of the hardcore fans who got it "first" (that is how it always goes down with the "exclusive" content from the club). Exclusiveness has been the selling point of the NPGMC since year 1 but they never kept their word.


--
[This message was edited Mon Mar 15 2:08:37 2004 by Abrazo]

Abrazo said:

I understand the differences you've outlined. But you could argue that the cost of the download *is* cheaper than a retail CD. A new CD costs, on average, what...about $15? And it contains anywhere from 9 to 15 songs on average? For $15, you can get 19 songs at 77 cents each.

Abrazo said:

Yep. You are right again. We have no choice. And that's how download services are going to be. And it's how other license-based software is going to be distributed (and how some alread is being distributed -- take a look at QuarkXPress or Dreamweaver/Flash/Freehand/Fireworks...you can install it on one computer. Upgrade that computer in any way, and you've got to have a license key to continue using the software.)

Abrazo said:

Well, it's P's site and that's the price, so I don't know how the price can be called bullshit. You could say the same of anything else offered in NPG retail. You can say the price sucks or is too expensive, but the logic behind it is that it's his site and his merchandise to pimp for the going rate.

Abrazo said:

I could be wrong, but I don't remember Prince saying he wanted to cut out middlemen to make his music cheaper for his fans to purchase. Fewer middlemen just mean more profits him, which he's entitled to.

Abrazo said:

You are right. I've been a member since year 1, too. I don't believe the music will be "exclusive," but until the store opens no one will know for sure. I'm using logic (not wise in this case, I know) to speculate that the club might post tracks from years 1-3 for purchase in the store, which would be great for those who weren't members back when the club was more focused on music than discussion forums and chat rooms. I know that if I hadn't been a member in year 1 and those tracks became available for 77 cents each, I'd buy them, regardless of DRM. That is, as long as they play on my platform of choice.

Abrazo said:

Actually, there's a ton of year 1 music that I'd love to get my hands on that has yet to surface elsewhere (legitimately).

That said, so far they haven't been pushing "exclusivity" for the upcoming downloads. Just that members will get to pay a cheaper price than non-members. 77 cents vs. 99 cents.

.
[This message was edited Mon Mar 15 13:42:48 2004 by Universaluv]

Universaluv said:

I hope for them and the fans that they will drop the exclusivity. That only causes trouble in the end. The year 1 downloads are indeed not all avalaible legitimately, but parts of it, like the ONA piano downloads and tracks that were already released before, are. You could say they almost kept year 1 exclusive. Year 2 however...

Doozer said:

Correct, but then you also have to become a member (for 25$) and the 15$ price is including the middlemen. The price then is still much too high. And even if you could get 19 songs for 15$ all the costs involving in releasing a CD are absent with downloads, but you won't get the same rights nor user possibilites. Therefore if the licensed downloads sell well the NPGMC makes much more per licensed copy than it would make per sold CD. Logically and reasonably this would have to lead to much lower prices for the fans.


The quest for freedom was never only about Prince, but also the fans. He said it himself often enough that CD prices are too high and that this has to change. Why then make licensed and copy protected downloads on an average even more expensive than unlicensed and un copy protected CD's? Not logical and open to speculation that he is being greedy. He should try to avoid that better.


Giving a supporter no choice is not fair and will cause many fans to bail out. If music consumers collectively resist and don't buy licensed copy protected copies of music the copyright owner will have to give them a choice. I predict that these issues will become more and more problematic in the coming years.


Indeed, he pimps his music and merchandise too much. That's not logical considering he views his songs as his children. He shouldn't pimp his kids, that's wrong. Especially not when you have been talking loud for years that music shouldn't be sold like a commodity for middlemen to get rich. Then you can't claim with a straight face that you have evry right to make even more of your children than you already did.


He is entitled to take all the profits the middlemen used to make and the fans are not entitled to pay less for his music after they supported him for years to take out those same middlemen? Nahh, that's not fair. He has always asked his fans to support him in that quest for change in the music industry by "cutting out the middlemen". If he goes this licensed copy protected download route for prices that are too high and doesn't care about his past promises anymore, he will be just like the record execs again (and don't forget the lawsuits against fans).


I assume they could easily do that, including posting outtakes, bootlegs, concerts and after shows... but alas... that woud probably be too logical for the NPGMC...


.
[This message was edited Tue Mar 16 3:08:54 2004 by Abrazo]

Abrazo, you and I are just going to have to sit Prince down and figure this all out at the Dallas concert.

Abrazo said:

But of course the ONA piano downloads were only made available legitimately again to members who signed up with another $100 the next year...so anyone who supported the club from its inception paid for those songs twice, while many newer members would love the opportunity to buy them once, but it ain't available.

theblueangel said:

Not only that - we received another copy of the ONA piano and voice CD with the ONA...Live box set!

Jestyr said:

That's right, that hadn't occurred to me. So I've paid 3 times for those first 4 songs...I guess he figured the last half of the album wasn't as good as the first half so he'd only force us to buy that twice.

Hell, 3 times ain't nuthin'...assuming the whole "Free CD with concert admission" thing holds true, I'll be carrying around 7 copies of Musicology by the middle of next month.

Coming from the UK, it's pretty cheap compared with the cost of a new CD

Doozer said:

Make it 50 cents per download for members and 77 cents for non members and all is settled.

theblueangel said:

I paid 3 times for those 4 songs too. I think it's disgraceful, unprofessional, customer unfriendly, misleading and most of all a breach of contract how they handled year 2. It's the prime reason why I have zero trust left in the NPGMC.

--
[This message was edited Sat Mar 20 12:24:54 2004 by Abrazo]

Dazza said:

Even if it is cheaper than the price of a new Cd in the UK this is an international sale and it's not a cd you buy but a license to listen to copyprotected computer files..

rialb said:

U ain't an artist, r u ?

You gotta be kidding If $.77 is too steep for you just don't download it. You'll be too busy collecting cans & cutting coupons anyway

Doozer said:

Maybe a better comparison is films? [then again, maybe it's a crap comparison. but anyway...]

You pay what, £6 to watch a film at the cinema - and that's it, just one go. THEN if you liked it, you shell out for the DVD, £12, with all the extras, in a nice box, that you can watch again and again.
£6 for an intangible, once-only movie or £12 for the same one in a box 6 months later.

CalhounSq said:

you are forgetting the 25$ "donation"fee necessary to get the downloads for 77 cents. that's how much? Almost 100 songs to download before you actually start to pay 77 cents instead of the usual 99 cents. Will they actually have 100 plus songs avaliable for download? :hm: In other words: the "discount" probably isn't really a discount at all.

Abrazo said:

Well maybe if so many people hadn't bitched about the price of the club & it was still $100 the downloads would be free. But then you'd be bitching about the $100 Nobody's forcing you dude - just don't d/l the shit. It's gonna be alright

CalhounSq said:

Ahh thank you, you make me feel so much better now. I will never download Prince's new music from now on.

rialb said:

Hey, you could always download the album from Walmart for $0.88 a track.