It seems many think the planned WMA downloads is only an issue for macintosh users. But did you know that Microsoft's DRM has a built in counter. If you upgrade your computer, either by upgrading to a whole new computer, or by adding hardware up even reinstalling the operating system of your existing computer, you have to "migrate your license". You can only migrate your license to a song 10 times! Imagine a CD that after you've played it on 10 different CD players, you can't play it on your next CD player - who here could still listen to their Purple Rain CD with that kind of restriction?

Remember, to bypass any of this you break the law.

Ok so if the songs are so restricted, here's what I expect.

1. Buys songs from NPGMC
2. Burns a CD to play in the car. (if I can't then step 1 never happens)
3. 25 years or so from now my 10 upgrades are up (I don't frequently upgrade/reinstall, etc.).
4. I yank out my cd from step 2 and get my grandkids to rip a copy onto my new computer.
5. Wait for the FBI to come crashing through my front door cause I just ripped a 25 year old Prince cd that I wasn't supposed to.
6. When that doesn't happen, give my grandson 20 bucks (which will only buy stick of gum at this point), sit back and enjoy my tunes.



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[This message was edited Wed Mar 3 11:26:49 2004 by Universaluv]

Universaluv said:

I just want my stuff on cd

Universaluv said:

Impossible to prevent it, there is always a way. At the worst you can record it with some sample editing software while it's playing on your computer, then save it as a wav file and then do what you like with it.

TheEnglishGent said:

But illegal.

alandail said:

And remember you may not even be allowed to migrate it 10 times, but much less.

Universaluv said:

Ok so if the songs are so restricted, here's what I expect.

1. Buys songs from NPGMC

No, you buy a "license to listen to songs" from the NPGMC, not (copies of) songs themselves

2. Burns a CD to play in the car. (if I can't then step 1 never happens)

You likely can't

3. 25 years or so from now my 10 upgrades are up (I don't frequently upgrade/reinstall, etc.).

25 years? More likely they are up much sooner, perhabs even within a year

4. I yank out my cd from step 2 and get my grandkids to rip a copy onto my new computer.

illegal

5. Wait for the FBI to come crashing through my front door cause I just ripped a 25 year old Prince cd that I wasn't supposed to.

Or receive a cease and desist letter, or wait for your license to be automatically revoked and your licensed files rendered unlistenable, or be sued right away

6. When that doesn't happen, give my grandson 20 bucks (which will only buy stick of gum at this point), sit back and enjoy my tunes.

even more illegal


Forgotten about the NPGMC 2001 motto?

"If you share our files we are going to share yours"



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[This message was edited Thu Mar 4 3:14:15 2004 by Abrazo]

Abrazo said:

the PPs have confirmed that the license will allow us to burn cds.

m3taverse said:

I would wait and see what the license itself exactly states, insetad of going by the word of the IMO highly unreliable pp's.

m3taverse said:

if people start posting copies of the music to help people get around these crazy issues that exclude people from buying the music, watch them turn off the ability to burn CDs.

Did you realize that they have already posted videos that prevented club members from burning their own DVD of the video? I wanted to watch Thieves in the Temple on my DVD player and the files were configured to prevent that.

Abrazo said:

So instead we should take your reliable word which is based on what? Supposition? Have you actually seen the details of this license which you are so vehemently against? There sure are alot of "likel'y's" and "if's" and "may not's" in your doomsday scenario.

Fine. Then how about we "wait and see what the license itself exactly states" before we make up our own worst case scenario terms and condemn the NPGMC for screwing us over?



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[This message was edited Thu Mar 4 9:56:10 2004 by Universaluv]

Universaluv said:

No, you should not take my word. I am not claiming to know what it will be like. It's true there are a lot of if's and maybe's in my "doomsday scenario". That's because it isn't fact yet what I'm saying. Otherwise you would criticise me for acting like everything is fact already.

In fact I said it myself that I would wait and see. So I do not feel that you're adressing properly what I'm saying here. The difference between you and me on this issue is that I'm highly sceptical about the planned scheme and showing it. You are not, but have more faith in the NPGMC. I have reason to be so sceptical and I have reason to raise my voice NOW, because else it will be too late and the NPGMC will have 'fixed' things and secured that this year will be another let down for fans.

Abrazo said:

You'll wait and see? Well that sounds a little different from when you went "on record as stating that I won't support the NPGMC this coming year due to this scheme (and others..." but hey, whatever.

I'm all for raising concerns you might have with the NPGMC. I believe I actually advocated raising concerns about mac compatability with the NPGMC in another thread. Of course you said that "would be rather pointless if they have already made up their mind, which I'm pretty sure they did."

Perhaps I'm just misreading you.

wma files are just another bad idea from a long line of bad ideas from the npgmc. i will not buy them. i use mac and windows, and will not buy songs that wont run on all my systems, or my iPod

Abrazo said:

Who gives a shit wether it's legal or not?

For one thing how will they ever find out? And what sort of crazy court would convict someone for making a CD from a file? I am not talking about file sharing with others, just using it for myself.

TheEnglishGent said:

It's not making a CD from a file that's illegal, it's reading that CD back into the computer. If it started out with DRM and you convert it into a computer file that doesn't have DRM, you have violated the law.

Who would have thought the RIAA would sue teenage kids for listening to music.

From what I understand, if you bought the DRM, burned a copy for yourself, and then ripped it onto YOUR OWN computer, FOR YOUR OWN use, then it's not illegal.

Give it to one other person, even family, then it's illegal.

Se7en said:

actually, it is illegal, even if it's done for your own use thanks to the digital millennium act. Because of that act, the fact the file has DRM attached to it, personal use that otherwise would be legal no longer is.

Universaluv said:

Yes, you are misreading me. I mean to say that if i were someone who was thinking of joining this DRM scheme I would wait and see what the license states first, before joining. I will just let this rest by stating that I have no shred of confidence in what is to come.

TheEnglishGent said:

Well, I agree that it is a trivial issue, economically and factually speaking, but if the DRM and accompanying license doesn't permit that behaviour (which I believe is very likely), it's a violation of the license and possibly of DMCA provisions prohibiting the circumvention of copy protection measures. In principle you will be liable. Legally this simply makes a huge difference. Factually and economically speaking I agree that it is irrelevant.

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[This message was edited Sun Mar 7 8:27:58 2004 by Abrazo]

alandail said:

If the license doesn't permit the action and the action constititutes a prohibited form of circumventing a copy protection measure it is illegal.

alandail said:

The DMCA prohibits circumventing a copy protection measure, even if that's only for personal use.The accompanying "license to listen" may further also prohibit it, ensuring that a certain act of circumvention will constitute a breach of contract, thereby also making you liable.