bkw said:

Sorry, but this is a bunch of BS. I could also say "Why do you have the right to send your child to their room" or "why do you have the right to tell them what they can and cannot do"? An adult has the right to do a lot of things that are in the best interest of the child.

You don't have to get into a discussion with me about spanking, cause I will never abuse my kids. People who beat the shit out of their children lack self control and no discussion is going to change that. As the child grows older the methods of punishment should change. You cannot reason with a 3 year old that trying to do something which will hurt 'em a hell of a lot more than a spanking. You don't spank a 12 year old because by that time the psyche of the child has changed and a spanking be regarded as cruel and degrading. Punishment should always be constructive. The child is supposed to benefit from it.

I know this is not going to change anyone's mind, but I think it's the result which counts. There are many ways to raise your kids, just make sure they turn into love, respectful adult. Many won't succeed, spanking or no spanking...but ofcourse no one thinks it will happen to them.
[This message was edited Mon May 3 18:42:36 2004 by J0eyC0c0]

bkw said:

very well put, BKW. it reminds me of this radio documentary i was listening to - one of the (reformed) offenders admitted: "Beat your wife, and they call the police. Beat your child, and they call the social worker." i'll never forget that comment - very telling.

bkw said:

CO-SIGN!



I've always wondered why some people think it is alright to punish a child with violence -and yes, even a light slap is violence -but they'd never suggest punishing an adult in the same way.


Why is it okay to hit someone smaller than you, but not okay to hit someone who can hit back?
[This message was edited Mon May 3 19:57:57 2004 by meow85]

J0eyC0c0 said:

I don't think a 3 year old would understand why they're being hit, which would defeat the purpose wouldn' it? If a child's only motivation to behave is fear of being spanked, then what does that teach the child?

I was hit a few times when I was younger. I probably was bad most of the time-I'm no angel. But I never understood why I was being punished. I don't have kids, but when I do, I'll go out of my way to not lay a hand on them. Because -and this is still fresh in my mind -a "light slap" hurts a hell of a lot more than the parent thinks it does.

Over the years I've noticed there is a cultural difference when it comes to spanking or not. And that's fine, what works for one set of parents doesn't necessarily work for another. When some people talk about getting their butt "beat" it usually has nothing to do with abuse. A literal beating is abuse, no way around that.

The comparison of kids today with kids of previous generations isn't really a good one. At the risk of sounding old, most of my generation and those generations prior to mine would never even allow their tone of voice to be disrespectful to parents. Many of today's kids will not hesitate to curse their parents (or adults in general) out like a drunken sailor - and at the worst end of the scale, they won't hesitate to get a gun and blow away whoever they're pissed at. Not to mention all the problematic actions of a "problem child" in between.

For years now we've all been reading and hearing unfortunate stories about all the kids out there who for some reason or other decided to find a gun and blow their classmates/friends/family members away. Most of these kids have developed problem child tendencies in the first place, their last, most heinous act just escalated from their attitudes and previous actions before. One story in particular I remember reading about was a parent saying that she never spanked him, and never raised a hand toward him. This really doesn't have anything to do with his decision to go on a killing rampage, obviously.

There are a lot of parents who feel that it's better for them to spank (or "beat his/her butt" for those parents who don't care if anyone interprets that literally) their kids to correct them than for The Man to beat them to a pulp with that club they carry around, or at worst, shoot them. Or for THE SYSTEM in general to get ahold of their kids because of the kid's behavior. And I hope I don't have to tell anybody that for poor kids and families, and families of color, they're not always treated the same way as those from a higher economic bracket. These parents know that their spankings are NOTHING compared to what eventually could happen when their kids are out there.

For many parents, this works. For others it doesn't. The children are individuals just like every adult; there is no One Size Fits All disciplinary action. For that reason I wouldn't dare tell any parents how to discipline their kids (unless I witnessed something abusive, and abuse isn't just physical), just as they shouldn't admonish other parents who haven't exhibited abusing tendencies how to discipline theirs.

`
[This message was edited Tue May 4 8:47:28 2004 by Supernova]

meow85 said:

The way to do it is that the kid does something wrong or something which might be harmful and you respond immediately. After a few times the child will understand that this certain action results in an unpleasant feeling and won't attempt to do the same thing again. It's that simple.

J0eyC0c0 said:

sounds like a fear response to me. there has to be a better way.

Supernova said:

Say no more, big brotha Nova

Harlepolis said:

All this time you thought I was male?

IAmTheTouch said:

Fear is what keeps you alive. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's not traumatic.

I noticed that a lot of times when we as people from the mordern western civilization think we've come up with a better, more scientific approach only a few decades later we realize that though people thousand and thousands of years before us didn't know exactly why a certain method was successful, they just knew it worked.

IAmTheTouch said:

ok first of all I'd like to say that yes, I was spanked, and yes I have spanked my children when they needed it.

I have also worked with small children in the daycare and the preschool setting. I have noticed a few things.

Children who are spanked at home will not always respond to time out or other forms of punishment at school, unless the threat of the parent is there.

Children who have never been spanked will not always respond to time out or removal of priviledges either. The threat of the parent carries no weight.


Some children who are spanked are angry and take out aggression on others teachers, other kids, animals, etc.

some children who are not spanked do not know boundaries and constantly push the limits in order to find that limit.

Working in a school setting corporal punishment was not an option. We used time out, isolation, and called the parents and then had them removed from the center/school.

I believe that a form of discipline is only as effective as the parent. Some parents do get angry and take it out on the kids. Some parents are so in awe of the children that they treat then like adults and set few or no limits, allow the child to behave in the way the child wants too and then when the child is angry and confused because they cannot live in society they are baffled.

I spank my girls as a last resort. I take away priviledges, toys, and time. BUT my girls know what a spanking offense is. My girls do fear my reactions to their misbehavior. I am not concerned about this. It is the way I have raised them. They still talk to me and tell me their secrets. I always tell my girls, you can have as many friends as you want but I am your only mother and it is my responsibility to raise you and to aid you in your life journey. I take this very seriously.

I believe that verbal abuse is just as or even more detremental to a child's psyche than spanking. A child who is never hit but is constantly called names, criticized, degraded and ignored will have a more difficult time than the child who is occassionally spanked but treated with love and respect, and communicated with.

An ineffective parent does more damage by what they do not do to protect, discipline, and correct a child.

Lastly, I did not change my way of thinking after I had children. Before I had my daughter I knew that I had to be an effective parent, a strong person, a loving person, in order to raise a child. I had to be unselfish and often put what was right for my child before what I believed was right for me. I often changed my way of handling particular situations because a different response was needed. Sometimes talking is enough, some times it isn't.

communication is the key though, once the child can understand.

theVelvetRoper said: