doctormcmeekle said:

Vibrator asked the same, so I obliged. I'm one of 2 in his thread.

"Look at me!"

doctormcmeekle said:

DOESN'T THAT MEAN UR EUROPEAN?
JUST KIDDING BUDDY, U CAN UNDERSTAND HOW AN AUSTRALIAN MIGHT FEEL BEING CALLED A "EUROPEAN", I WOULD HOPE!
ACTUALLY I'M OF SCOTTISH DESCENT
WHAT A SILLY (BUT PASSIONATE) THREAD.WHO STARTED THIS : GEORGE BUSH I S'POSE

crazyhorse said

I have to take my previous answer back.
I just saw MarySharon's profile pic!!
WOW WOW WOW

1p1p1i3 said:

You can add to the list of countries saved or liberated by the USA - Australia/New Zealand and all the South Pacific islands (saved from the Japanese in WW2); UK (saved in WW2); France (same); most of the formerly "Western" Europe (saved in WW2 and from Communism afterwards); large chunks of South East Asia (eg Philippines) saved in WW2 and in subsequent conflicts; South Korea; parts of the Middle East (eg Kuwait) and Africa in conflicts during and since WW2.

This has been due to "direct" involvement, in France/Germany and the Pacific, where US forces were mainly responsible for the victories. One could also argue the "indirect" influence of the US has kept Communism in check.

The USA and Europe
In the history of post-war US-European relations, three main themes stand out. First, US determination to contain Soviet communism. It was this that led to the Berlin Airlift, the formation of NATO and the commitment to station US troops and missiles in Europe. Second, enlightened economic self-interest. It was this that led to the Marshall Plan and the reconstruction of Europe as a market for American goods. Third, unremitting support for European integration.

Isolationism is a recurrent temptation to Americans - the attraction of a retreat from foreign entanglements into the security of their own rich and self-sufficient democratic society. But NATO and Marshall Aid established the USA for 50 years after World War II as a European power, a development that often wounded French pride but was warmly welcomed by the UK, America's traditional ally, and by Germany, whose eastern borders faced the Warsaw Pact armies. It is not too much to say that the American presence saved Europe from succumbing, whether politically or militarily, to the Soviet Union.

sermwanderer said:

United States of Europe

American policy ... has urged European unity.

Throughout this period, the USA strongly favoured European federation. It saw Europe's fragmentation as the cause of protectionism, narrow markets and wars in which American servicemen had died. A united Europe would be a stronger buffer against communism, a richer outlet for American exports, an assurance against another European war. Mistrustful of the British empire and its successor, the Commonwealth, the USA pressured the UK to abandon Commonwealth preference and be fully absorbed into the Common Market. There was also an element of simplification in Washington's approach. It was an easy assumption that if a United States of America was the ideal political system on one side of the Atlantic, then a United States of Europe must be the ideal counterpart on the other side. The complex antagonisms of European history were a challenge to the USA's patience.

Not that support for Europe's chosen path always led to harmonious relations. De Gaulle was nakedly antipathetic to US influence. In the 1960s and 1970s Vietnam and the collapse of the dollar soured feelings and lessened the awed respect in which the USA had been held. Europe was rebuilding its industry and recovering its poise. But if the balance of economic power was beginning to shift, the Community had nothing to offer militarily, or in foreign policy terms. The left complained bitterly of the deployment of NATO missiles in Europe; and the French resented US predominance in the Middle East: but in every international crisis Europe proved impotent and divided. Frustrated, it looked inward, concentrating on the single market and the prospect of monetary union.

A resonant expression, associating Europe's aspirations for power and prosperity with the federal political model of the USA. In 1946, in the immediate aftermath of World War II, Winston Churchill famously used the phrase in a speech in Zurich to describe his vision of a Europe made peaceful by Franco-German rapprochement. The origins of the phrase, however, are at least 150 years old. Victor Hugo used it after the revolutions of 1848 to express his own dream of a peaceful and united Continent. Indeed, the contrast of America's freshness and simple purpose with Europe's convoluted politics has inspired European idealists since the American Declaration of Independence in 1776. 'United States of Europe', then, is not so much a working blueprint for European integration as an evocation of the New World, designed to cloak the horse-trading and grinding detail of EU negotiations in the aura of manifest destiny.

I think some people have been gaining their knowledge of World War 2 from Saving Private Ryan. I do seem to remember some country called 'England' playing rather a large part in World War 2 but maybe I'm just confused

daned said:

daned said:

England did play a strong and courageous part in WW2 as Allie. Back then and still today.

July said.
Dont no about you but I consider the word "Jap" offensive.

The dropping of the atomic bombs on civillian cities was a terrible act.
Should of been used on the military only.

jn2 said:

oops; you're right; French also have me...
[This message was edited Sun Apr 18 4:04:04 2004 by MarySharon]

crazyhorse said:

If you're gonna quote. Try to do it right.

I did not use the word Jap. 1p1p1i3 did.


July said:

The saved Europe from hitler in the 1940's. There would not be a Europe. Ya know. It would be no more.

1p1p1i3 said:
Hmm.... I reckon us Brits and the Ruskies would have kicked the crap out of Germany eventually. The US don't really have a great record when it comes to wars... [OK, except that Independence one ]

Although you did anihilate a couple of Jap cities for no reason - well done there.

July said:

You can add to the list of countries saved or liberated by the USA - Australia/New Zealand and all the South Pacific islands (saved from the Japanese in WW2); UK (saved in WW2); France (same); most of the formerly "Western" Europe (saved in WW2 and from Communism afterwards); large chunks of South East Asia (eg Philippines) saved in WW2 and in subsequent conflicts; South Korea; parts of the Middle East (eg Kuwait) and Africa in conflicts during and since WW2.

This has been due to "direct" involvement, in France/Germany and the Pacific, where US forces were mainly responsible for the victories. One could also argue the "indirect" influence of the US has kept Communism in check.

The USA and Europe
In the history of post-war US-European relations, three main themes stand out. First, US determination to contain Soviet communism. It was this that led to the Berlin Airlift, the formation of NATO and the commitment to station US troops and missiles in Europe. Second, enlightened economic self-interest. It was this that led to the Marshall Plan and the reconstruction of Europe as a market for American goods. Third, unremitting support for European integration.

Isolationism is a recurrent temptation to Americans - the attraction of a retreat from foreign entanglements into the security of their own rich and self-sufficient democratic society. But NATO and Marshall Aid established the USA for 50 years after World War II as a European power, a development that often wounded French pride but was warmly welcomed by the UK, America's traditional ally, and by Germany, whose eastern borders faced the Warsaw Pact armies. It is not too much to say that the American presence saved Europe from succumbing, whether politically or militarily, to the Soviet Union.
[This message was edited Sun Apr 18 4:21:36 2004 by July]

crazyhorse said:

Sorry if I offended anyone by using the word "Jap" as a shortcut for Japanese [sometimes I'm so lazy!] - I didn't know it was offensive (see also "Brit" and "Ozzy").

Plus I was being sarcastic (although on closer inspection it doesn't seem to have come across like that) about the atomic bombings - I also think that these were shameful acts.

crazyhorse said:

Sorry if I offended anyone by using the word "Jap" as a shortcut for Japanese [sometimes I'm so lazy!] - I didn't know it was offensive (see also "Brit" and "Ozzy").

Plus I was being sarcastic (although on closer inspection it doesn't seem to have come across like that) about the atomic bombings - I also think that these were shameful acts.

BTW, I seem to remember that the US took a long-distance, nothing to do with us, let the Euros squabble type of approach for a long time, until the Japanese brought the war home.

july said

Opps,sorry about that.My apologies.
And since you asked so nicely I'm going to make it a point not to do it right.

July said:

Gosh, however could this thread have gone so wrong?

July said:

What started as a fun thread has divebombed into farce and quoting from first year university politics books



If you guys wanna think that your mere presence in Europe 'saved' us from Hitler, thats all well and cool, but I reckon you should read some literature on the matter, thats all i'm saying


Anyway, back to the real argument-







Big Foam Fingers-

ON BEHALF OF EUROPE I DEMAND AN APOLOGY FOR INFLICTING THESE ON THE WORLD!

File next to Dubya and Tab Clear in the What Were We Thinking? Section

xenon said:

XENON!!

althom said:

Oh and for the record, backwater places like Australia and Canada count as "Europe" in my mind.

Aussies need not apply!



(btw hi althom... )

daned said:

You are confused! It was some country called 'Great Britain'.

Hmm...can New York be considered a country of its own?
[This message was edited Sun Apr 18 16:48:28 2004 by CherrieMoonKisses]

crazyhorse said:

You mean second to "nuns".

sermwanderer said:

Beg your pardon, but ... um ... actually, we didn't...

sag10 said:

bkw said:

Yes but AUS has Althom

FLUX said:

You may have Zaleira but we've got FLUX.

Natsume said:

Backwater!!!!!

Oh hi Nat!

crazyhorse said:

ALL THE WOMEN OF THE WORLD ARE 2nd TO NONE WITHOUT THEM WE WOULDN'T BE HERE, GOTTA BACK U UP ON THE M*S* COMMENT THOUGH.PLUS IF U LOOK REAL CLOSE SHE'S GOT A MIND TOO,AINT THAT FUNNY DUDE. "A woman's beauty runs ever deep....."
I THINK LACE 17 MAY HAVE SAID THAT,OR SIMILAR...(American!)
PANTHA GIRL (Australian) LOOKS FINE; SHE'S ALSO GOT QUITE A FEW BRAIN CELLS FIRING,..& most beautiful girl in the world,vina blue,psychodelicide,gold,janeypoo,& ...&..&...&.....
THIS THREAD HAS RUN INTO TROUBLED WATER'S IF WE JUDGE CONTINENTS BY THE BEAUTY OF THEIR WOMEN, BUT IT'S SURE IS A FACTOR 2 B CONSIDERED THEY'RE ALL GREAT ; IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS

ThreadBare said:

United States of Europe

American policy ... has urged European unity.

Throughout this period, the USA strongly favoured European federation. It saw Europe's fragmentation as the cause of protectionism, narrow markets and wars in which American servicemen had died. A united Europe would be a stronger buffer against communism, a richer outlet for American exports, an assurance against another European war

HATE 2 SAY THIS BUT DIDN'T THE SECOND WORLD WAR BEGIN IN 1939.

AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BUT I THINK AMERICA JOINED IN 1943, AFTER PEARL HARBOUR! SERMWANDERER'S' EDITORIAL' BROUGHT THIS 2 MIND,+ MY FATHER IN LAW(American), seems 2 have AN ARM MISSING .GUADALCANAL, CIRCA 1943.
THIS TALK OF WAR IS HEAVY SHIT!
LET'S ALL GO HAVE A BEER & DELETE THIS THREAD...YAY!

FLUX said:

Thank you sweetheart