Maybe I just have vagina envy

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

See, I changed you already!

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

And if not, you've just come up with a great new drag name.

Ladies and gentlemen...Ms. Vagina Envy!!!

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's amazing because I have penis envy! Wanna trade?

scientists say within 10 years a man will give birth by C-Section, but will have a high risk of dying during the process

I wanted to experience being a father when I was in my late twenties.

But I wanted to experience it within a relationship and that kind of relationship just didn't happen, so...

And I really didn't want to get into any kind of arrangement with a lesbian couple. I have heard about so many bad experiences with that, so...

Besides, if I had a child, I'd definitely want to raise it myself, within a relationship with another man.

But then I experienced how lovely it is to be able to enjoy time with other people's kids and when the kids get troublesome be able to just hand them to their parents and say: "Here's your child back. Enjoy."

Anyways, my best friend is married and have a son and I enjoy taking the boy to the movies and such. It is enough for me to play uncle and not have the responsibility of having a child of my own.

So I really don't foresee myself becoming a biological father. That need is dead. But if I were to get in a relattionship with a man who already has a child, then I'd accept part of the parental responsibility for that child. Sure, why not?

I think some people are missing the point that this thread wasn't about bonding or connecting with a child, but about not experiencing giving birth to a child and therefore not wanting a child because of the inability to give birth and therefore feeling partially left out of the parenting process because of not having the capability to give birth as if it were a rite of passage of some sort

At least that's how I see it

Janfriend said:

Hahaha you guyrls should trade brains

Supa are you sure you are male? Aren't you just born in the wrong body? Serious!

Janfriend said:

Well, then my answer'll have to be no. I don't feel that way.

I like being a man and not having to go through painful births.
[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 3:16:06 PST 2004 by scififilmnerd]

I think I will bond with my wife more, bond with the pregnancy itself if you see what I mean. I think that in sharing the experiences of the pregnancy as much as possible you can remove a lot of those "2nd place" feelings. It's a good point you make but don't forget it's only 9 months (don't tell any women I said "only") when the child is a one year old you will have shared an enormous amount of time and I think the feeling of being second will fade very quickly indeed.

They have just finished televising a short series in the UK on Gay parenting; it was a great watch. One of the partners in such a relationship was saying much the same as you, she felt left out, but had no desire to physically mother a child herself. The gay guys were great they just seemed to have a surrogate mother on standby in the states for when they wanted their next baby.

scififilmnerd said:

I don't feel that way either. I have felt a bit jealous of the ability to give birth, and the phenomenal emotional bond that must give rise to. But that doesn't make me stop wanting kids. And when all said and done, i'm a pussy and if faced with childbirth would probably balk at the pain of it all and demand the sunroof every time.

In any case, i'm pretty sure a father can be just as close emotionally to his kids really. Just depends on the family i guess.

Supa, there's a theory that states that mothers are
closest to the children because they are UNDENIABLY
theirs...they gave birth, so no question...
Fathers carry around some doubt, small as that may be.

I wouldn't trade fatherhood for anything else.
Growing up without a father, I promised myself to
stay in my childrens lifes...each life is unique,
but I wonder what could have been if he had stayed.

Education is our main concern for the children at this
point...BIG task...

As you stated, overprotection is also a big concern.
Where's the fine line? This world is TOTALLY different
than when we were kids...I remember running around ALL
DAY LONG as a kid, no concerns. My kids can't go outside
unless it's in the backyard or we're outside with them.
I'm worried that their independence and curiousity will
be stifled...

Ultimately, parenthood is a work in progress...we're doing
the best we can..

Great thread.

Given the timing of my coming out, etc., when I first heard that my then wife was pregnant, it frankly felt like a life sentence. Three years and nine months later, I can't begin to explain how positively transformed both of our lives are!

It is a bit scary: Where before our good and bad judgment effected only us, now we have to think about implications of our actions at least 18 years down the road! On occasion, the youthful part of me pines for total abandon again, but I realize the discipline that comes from being a responsible parent is precisely what I needed when I needed it! I believe totally without exaggeration that my daughter has saved my life – and I owe her big time.

As for the parent-child connection: Yeah, it’s usually naturally closer with the mother. Imagine something growing inside of you for nine months, totally dependent on you loving and taking care of yourself to survive. You feel its very first stirrings of life. And when it’s born, it just automatically knows – without prompting – who you are! Knows your voice! I remember when I first handed my daughter to her mother she instantly, instinctively went for the breast and just knew how to nurse – no prodding or anything! It was sublime!

Women enjoy those types of plusses, but they’re a well deserved trade-off for the weeks and months of getting “fat,” morning sickness, indigestion, incontinence, forced dieting, frequent health concerns, psychological/hormonal ups and downs and sometimes permanent physical damage that comes with childbirth. (My ex wife still has back and leg pains and numbness from her epidural.) As for fathers, we can only experience certain things vicariously, but being around during pregnancy, feeling the first kicks, seeing the first ultrasound, cutting the umbilical cord, being the first person in the world to hold your baby and look into its eyes – that stuff is immeasurable! And remember, pregnancy and childbirth is over in a quick nine months. The REAL bonding and memories come over a lifetime of raising that baby into a healthy, contributing adult.

By the way, I have heard, Richard, that physicians can implant an egg in a membrane surrounding the stomach of a male. I'm not sure how the umbilical nutrient exchange emulated, though.

Maybe you could look into it, if you want to be pregnant. I'll totally settle for just watching!

cborgman said:

Unfortunately I'm not sure if our society is ready for this especially with the debate about same sex marriage. I could be wrong but I think the people in the corn belt who probably have heart attacks if they heard such a thing.

As for Supa's comments we'll your looking at it from a femake perspective and in reality you are a male, we'll maybe a female trapped in a males body but last I checked having a penis makes you a man. With this thought you should feel like a man and take a male approach towards nurturing your child.

If you really want to give birth then come back to life as a seahorse because the male seahorse gives birth to thier offspring.

mrbungle said:

there are gay couples who adopt but every state in the US has a different attitude about it. i think that there are some men who really do want to know what it's like to be preggers and it has nothing to do with being a female trapped in a man's body.

mrbungle said:

I disagree here, a penis doesn't make you a man, what's inside your head makes you a man.
You can be a woman and have a penis. Just a mistake of nature.
They actually did research on that and are able to see if a brain is more male or female. That means there are some people that might think they are gay, but they're not. They're female in the wrong body.
But that is different from being gay.

I hope posting this doesn't cause anyone any trouble, I posted it to make people more understanding about the complexity of the brain (and body).

[This message was edited Fri Feb 6 13:04:58 PST 2004 by Whateva]

Whateva said:

No trouble

I have a penis, biologically I'm a man. No question. Psychologically and emotionally I feel very female. My identity, as far as I'm concerned, is female in nature. Thanks to Janfriend for bringing this aspect to the fore

More than anything I feel uncomfortable in a father role. I feel like the person I am inside wants to experience much more than the physical person is able to. Feeling that baby move in that dream was amazing and awesome. I am the oldest child and I remember 3 of the 4 pregnancies my mother went through after I was born. She made us part of the experience by calling us over to feel the baby moving and to put our ears to her stomach to hear what was happening inside her. That is the closest I can come to actually experiencing the amazing closeness that has to create in most mothers. It is something I envy. I don't want the pain but would be willing to endure it for my own child.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Sorry that you won't get all your dreams come true

You know, I actually watched this show on the discovery health channel not long ago. When my wife was pregnant with our first child, there was a lot of "baby birthing" shows on that kinda freeked me out because they showed all the things that can go wrong. My wife's excuse was to prepare for the worst, kinda thing. Not for me. I'm the positive fellow in the relationship.

Anyway, there was this one show on people born with both male and female "parts". Now I've always held a bibical view on sexual orientation (for my own self recconing that is) and this show made it pretty hard to stick to that view.

Often times, back when, the doctor would "correct" the problem by surgery to whatever the child's organ was dominate. I think they said that no one has been born yet with both working parts. Anyway, the show followed some of these children through life and it was pretty heart breaking of what they went through. Some that were "corrected" to be a boy, grew up as a girl, and vice versa. Some of these surgeries left some children without the capability to be (sexually) either as well!

It was so... mesed up. After watching this, I could grasp that understanding of that whole "trapped in another body" thing. And for these folks it was pretty extreme. It was easy to take my former view on that before, because I never went through it, nor knew of someone that did. I had to ask myself if my learning process was just to solidify what I was taught to begin with. It was actually some of you folks here that made me want to look at a lot of issues from both sides. (watching debates)

That show really showed the biological/science aspect of it and showed that there was nothing PSYCOLOGICAL about it. (the root problems of gender identity)

yamomma said:

Great, there should be many more shows about explaining the difersity of human kind. That broadens our horizons.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Maybe in your next life you'll come back a male seahorse.

UptownDeb said:

I certainly dont want a child or feel a need for them, i may feel different later in life but at this moment NO WAY!. I dont know if being gay has anything to do with that but i'm sure glad that my partner/s or myself cannot get pregnant and im pretty positive that it has nothing to do with bonding or carrying the child.
I live in Sydney Australia and this is a BIG debate amoung the G&L community at the moment. There seems 2 b another big push 4 gays to act or replicate a straight way of living!

I have 3 kiddies & was very attentive to my wife throughout all 3 pregnancies.
We did the LAMAZE thing, I did the midnight-run-to-7Eleven for ice cream thing, I massaged the aching back and swollen feet, and I was in the delivery room for all 3 births.

I would NEVER, EVER, EVER want to go through all that.

I don't know how women do it. If men ever had to give birth, humanity would end.

yamomma said:

You're realization is indeed a beautiful one. Empathy is one of the greatest things about human kind. The ability to view things from others' perspective, is what makes us human in the first place.

Good for you Yamomma, and congrats!

Blue