W.W.J.D.???

Whether you believe in Jesus or not, he befriended the prostitutes, the lepers, the homeless. He spent time with them and got to know them. Does that make him a whore? No. Does that make him diseased? No.

Sometimes you have to see AND interact with both sides to really make a difference. To intervene and mediate, you can't just take one side. That always will lend itself to furthering the fight. There has to be some middle ground.

And that's what I've tried to do. It seems like ages ago (last week) that I was trying to do some peacemaking between the whole Cborgman/Aaron/rdhull blowup. I did not and will not take sides. Does that make me a passivist? No. Does that mean I agree with what both sides are doing? Certainly not.

I hate to say this, but I think most of the people involved are going about it wrong. The things on that sight were horrible, tasteless and evil. There's no doubt about that. It still sickens me to even think about how antagonistic some people are. But to swing so far in the opposite direction and be so unforgiving and villifying isn't working either.

Just because someone joined that sight, does not mean they are a part of that "mindset". It's like saying if you go to a gay bar, you're automatically gay. Or if you buy the latest Michael Jackson record, you're a child molestor. It's just not logical.

Some people signed up with that sight because it was the only way to keep up with people that were no longer here. Whether that's right or not, who's to say? And it was invite only. I highly doubt the invitation said, "Come join a race-bating, homophobic, sexist forum, it'll be a blast. RSVP."

Others got caught up in it and got played. It wasn't cool. They deserve to be questioned and we deserve answers. The thing I find most frustrating is that people can't leave shit alone. You've said your piece, now move on. How many ways are there to say the same thing? If this was real life, would you keep needling and opening up fresh wounds with those around you? I would hope not. Just because these are only words on a screen, that does not mean there isn't a person behind them. Show some respect and decency and walk away. Give them the silent treatment. Turn the other cheek. Be the better man. It's not doing anyone any good to keep pushing and pulling on the same issues EVERY FUCKING DAY! If not for yourself and your own peace of mind, do it for the rest of us. Some of us come here for fun. And it isn't fun anymore.

TRON said:

(and best thread title ever!)

cborgman said:

LOL! I thought I was gonna come in here seein Number23 doing a tap dance

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

so when was the last time you interacted with ice, oh innocent dragged into it one?


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[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 14:17:19 PST 2004 by ElephantitisOfTheNuts]

Who wants meatloaf??...

ElephantitisOfTheNuts said:[quote]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

edited to respect the spirit of this thread.

See your orgnotes Bliss....
[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 14:20:43 PST 2004 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

ElephantitisOfTheNuts said:

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Just because you interact with someone, that does not mean you condone their behavior. My mother deeply disagreed with me when I used to smoke pot. She'd steal my bags and flush them down the toilet. Does that mean she's a drug addict because she spends time and interacts with me?

TRON said:

that's different tron

your smoking pot wasn't evil racist shit

so if i have lunch with some i know raped a woman the day before, is that cool?...after all...i didn't rape her
extreme i know...but i'm trying to make a point

BRAVO.

And those people were all here for an extended time -- so we have all "associated" with them in the same manner.

TRON said:
[/quote]
My mother deeply disagreed with me when I used to smoke pot. She'd steal my bags and flush them down the toilet. Does that mean she's a drug addict because she spends time and interacts with me?[/quote]

I don't know... I've never met your mom.

TRON said:

A little different, in that your mom, while still "associating" with you, also took action to make it known just how much she disagreed with your positions and your own actions...she didn't just laugh along with you while you smoked it at the dinner table...lol...not to mention that, as your mom, she's pretty much by default going to interact with you. A much, MUCH stronger bond between mother and child than between internet aquaintances...

(ps: my comments don't have anything to do with Supa and Ice specifically...just tossing in some logic calking to fill in the holes I saw in an argument..)

Clubkid said:

Good point!
[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 14:32:25 PST 2004 by madartista]

madartista said:

ElephantitisOfTheNuts said:

Point taken.

I worked at a youth shelter for 5 years. I dealt with kids that were in gangs, had records for theft, killed animals, anything you can imagine. I dealt with parents that abused, raped and neglected their kids. Some of these kids I worked with on a weekly and sometimes even daily basis for several years. One of them that I was closest to went to jail for the rest of his adult life at the age of 17 for attempted murder. Does that mean I agree with any of that? HELL NO!

And of course you can say, it was only a job and I got paid for it. But it wasn't just a job to me. I took it very seriously. And it isn't easy to be a peacemaker. It's the hardest stance of all. And I think to lump Supa in with the rest of them is wrong. No, this isn't a job. But some of us are treating it like one. I see Supa as one of the very FEW who are actually trying to make peace.

Clubkid said:

Well watch out then!
[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 14:33:23 PST 2004 by TRON]

Byron said:

Bliss is intent on painting me as Ice's best friend and if he had the balls, he'd admit that I have taken Icenine to task on many many occasion for his race baiting threads and poor me I'm a white guy who can't get that one job out of a thousand because of affirmative action sentiment.

And with your line of logic you are implicitly guilty for yanking that baby out of your friends womb because you comforted her afterward. The shoe fits on the other foot dude.

Cut the bullshit. You can come so much better than that...or so i thought.

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[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 17:44:37 PST 2004 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

ElephantitisOfTheNuts said:

Shit! Ewan's after me again!

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[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 14:36:00 PST 2004 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That was directed at Bliss??...lol

TRON said:

no...i wouldn't say it's "just a job" ...i respect that kind of thing greatly... but i didn't see anyone over there trying to make a difference...i don't know you very well tron...but i doubt it if you could just hang out with parents that abused their children and act like it wasn't happening

ElephantitisOfTheNuts said:

Which in real life I have reported. So much for your theory that I lack any kind of feeling.

It's obvious you don't believe I never read those things. Believe what you want. The people that really matter to me have heard me out on this and for that I'm thankful.

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[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 14:40:16 PST 2004 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

ElephantitisOfTheNuts said:

Supa went to that site. There was no way he could make a difference THERE. It's a feeding frenzy.

But I have seen him try to change things HERE, which is where it matters.

I constantly see him taking the high road on arguments and making peace.

You can't always fight and argue with people. Sometimes you have to live by example. That's the only way to get through to some people. That's what I'm trying to do.

TRON said:

You know Tron. I wasn't afraid to be in the presene of people I don't agree with. I'm never afraid to hold my own. That is a part of this equation. Even If I read every thread on that site, it's clear that I was in the minority on many issues. I wouldn't have been afraid to try though, anyone who really knows me knows I don't back down from fighting ugliness wherever it is.

I had planned to start with Aaron and tackle an issue that has bothered me about him for quite some time, namely the fact that he mocks gay issues and either doesn't care or appears not to care about them. I was curious to explore that in a place where anything could be said. My mistake was not immediately dealing with stuff like this when I got there, although you see that I brought up the Borgman thing cuz I felt he went to far with him.

Bliss I've asked you respectfully in private to stop baiting me. I'm asking you publicly. You are free to address any issues you have with me but make sure you got your shit straight when you do cuz you are so mistaken on this.

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[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 14:56:50 PST 2004 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

Can someone please google up a real tap dancing Jesus Christ. I was kinda disappointed not to find him doing a jig when I entered the thread

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

TADA!

TRON said:

Jesus, I always knew you could dance!

I think the main problem many have (or had) is the context within which it all occurred...

P.org is like having a party in a stadium where everyone can get in free of charge...The Quaidbowl site was like a small, intimate private party where you could only get in thru invitation and if you are liked by the hosts. It's more intimate, more personal...so everything that occurs there gets magnified...unlike here, where there are literally thousands upon thousands of people, and thousands upon thousands of threads...you expect by sheer chance of odds that some shit will occur that you don't agree with, that there will be people you disagree with vehemently. I think it was "seeing" a sense of intimate commaraderie of a "private party" mixed among the insults, offensive posts and more-than-slightly racially-tinged comments that took many back for a moment...and made a few here reach the conclusions they have, no matter how right or wrong those conclusions were.

Anyway, my



party edit
[This message was edited Wed Feb 4 15:05:14 PST 2004 by Byron]