hmmm... where'd i ... put my...


oh! here it is!







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AaronAlmighty said:

Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron Aaron

cborgman said:

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guess the letters!
[This message was edited Tue Jan 6 12:35:21 PST 2004 by AaronAlmighty]

AaronAlmighty said:

i'd like to buy a vowel, pat...

cborgman said:

how bout i buy you a bowel!?

You raise an interesting point, Sassy, and I think the minstrel show parallel is right-on.

Importantly, I don't think we should be so reactionary as to abhor all quirky, stereotypical images of gay men -- it's part of what makes us unique (which I'm rather proud of in some regard) and, in fact, some of us do naturally act like that. By learning to be embarrassed about those of us who lisp, gesture like girls or prefer runway shows and Potterybarn to, say, boxing or NASCAR, we're effectively relinquishing part of our self-determination. I sort of fit a more conventional "masculine" affect, but I rather hate that so many of us hold "straight-acting" as some sort of litmus test of value and conduct. What does it mean, anyway -- that we like to treat women poorly, fart to impress our buddies, wear bad shoes and shoot fags? That's not unlike ethnic minorities who used to fall into the trap of judging one-another on a capacity to look, sound and "act" white. Let's not go through that phase either.

On the other hand, there ARE those of us who simply don't act like Jack on Will & Grace. I think more important than being upset about guys like him being made more accessible to mainstream currency, we should be about the business of getting those of us who fit other archetypes more frequently seen as well. I personally don't get too much joy out of the one-dimensional hedonism and plasticity we so often allow ourselves to engender, but, like ethnic minorities, our public battle has got to be about establishing a respect for our comprehensiveness as much as "behaving" for the world.
[This message was edited Tue Jan 6 10:50:07 PST 2004 by Lammastide]

Lammastide said:

I agree with you! And hopefully, gay men will not feel monetarily pressured into representing the same gay stereotype over and over again.

Lammastide said:

I agree with you! And hopefully, gay men will not feel monetarily pressured into representing the same gay stereotype over and over again.

I agree with you! And hopefully, gay men will not feel monetarily pressured into representing the same gay stereotype over and over again.

SassyBritches said:

Hopefully people will be comfortable to be themselves whether it's the lisping draq queen or the passable straight guy who in all actuality loves to suck cock. The idea that we have to conform to anything sucks. Like Madonna said...express yourself, don't repress yourself.

SassyBritches said:

well i don't think that's quite how stereotypes work. after all, i don't ever recall reading about a rash of black men deciding they were going to take up tap-dancing-while-eating-watermelon in the 30's to emulate movie and radio stars

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

exactly... its about showing the diverse swath of people that exist within the gay culture, just as is true with any particular culture.

SassyBritches said:

well i don't think that's quite how stereotypes work. after all, i don't ever recall reading about a rash of black men deciding they were going to take up tap-dancing-while-eating-watermelon in the 30's to emulate movie and radio stars

cborgman said:

...And "swath"? Who uses that word?

Lammastide said:

people with a good vocabulary... as much as you dip into the more exquisite deep end of the vernacular pool, i would be mystified to learn you have never dropped "swath" into a conversation.

Does anyone here watch "Six Feet Under?" I've never seen it. (But I want to largely because that delicious Peter Kraus is in it. )

Anyway... is the gay couple on that show pretty progressive?

Does anyone here watch "Six Feet Under?" I've never seen it. (But I want to largely because that delicious Peter Kraus is in it. )

Anyway... is the gay couple on that show pretty progressive?

Lammastide said:

just my opinion, but i think so, yes. they are portrayed as a boring everyday couple, which bizarrely enough feels like progress to me.

but last time i saw it, they had seperated

Lammastide said:

I watch it religiously. It's pretty good that way (being progressive re: gay male relationships), but it's still a TV show. A GREAT one, in fact--when does it come back on again?!

Does anyone here watch "Six Feet Under?" I've never seen it. (But I want to largely because that delicious Peter Kraus is in it. )

Anyway... is the gay couple on that show pretty progressive?

This actually is a topic I've thought about a lot lately. How gay men are depicted in the media has bugged me primarily for it's one-sidedness.

What TV shows and films could you all recommend that show us in more diverse ways?

Lammastide said:

that's pretty much the best one i can think of.

i can think of a great game though... "the sims" treats the gay and lesbian relationships just as it does a heterosexual relationship, but just as in real life, doesn't allow them to marry, but does encourage them to adopt kids.

cborgman said:

Geez, that's depressing. It's 2004! Makes me want to get back to my screenwriting.

cborgman said:

How funny. I had no idea the Sims allowed gay characters.

bananacologne said:

Yuppers, you hit the nail on the head. Gay people are still a novelty - so-called "mainstream society" can't digest gay folks as three-dimensional people who can function alongside anyone else in a generic, copacetic manner without having to dress outrageously and scream "FAAABULOUS!!!" every three damn seconds. It's like in the early to mid '70s, when black people were "accepted" by so-called mainstream society, but only if they had huge afros, dressed like pimps and soul hoochies, and talked jive...because, you know, it was easier to see people who are "different" as entertaining stereotypes than it was to actually have to humanize and...GAK!...get to KNOW them.

Maybe 20 years from now, the role of gay folks in "mainstream culture" will be a bit more nuanced and flexible - 'course, I'll be too damn old to enjoy it by then, grumblefrunklebumblegrrr...

AaronAlmighty said:

Well, quite honestly, it doesn't really matter what you think about how stereotypes work. With Hollywood and the entertainment industry the fact is that there are about 3 roles for the black man. The goofy guy that gets teamed up with the smart uptight white guy from whom he learns some invaluable lesson. The criminal. And the professional who is the butt of all jokes due to his well spoken and "appropriate" demeanor. The reason for this is because Hollywood is only hiring black actors for these roles. The only films or tv shows that feature other views, perspectives and character types are the ones created by black producers...of which there are few. You may live in a big city that has developed its own stereotypes but most of America is not a big city. Most of America is a bunch of folks that don't have everyday interaction with ethnic and racial diversity. Sadly, tv effects their view.

With all that said, my fear for the gay man (in media) is this same fate.

AnotherLoverToo said:

I don't know when it comes back on, but I do want to see it. Peter Krause aside, I've heard only good things about this series.

Lammastide said:

isn't it though?

Lammastide said:

oh, yes... it blew my mind the first time i noticed.