". . .if I come back home tired after a 12 hour day and my wife looks a mess, I'd be wondering what I'm working so hard for."

Shit, if i put in a 12 hour day i wouldn't give a fuck whut she look like long as dinner is done. i'm eatin and goin the fuck to sleep, FUCK HER!!!

". . .if I come back home tired after a 12 hour day and my wife looks a mess, I'd be wondering what I'm working so hard for."

Shit, if i put in a 12 hour day i wouldn't give a fuck whut she look like long as dinner is done. i'm eatin and goin the fuck to sleep, FUCK HER!!!

But you and I are so far from being on the same page, I'm not even sure we're in the same library, so I'm gonna stop now.

tackam said:

I think I detect a reaction against the role of woman as homemaker and man as provider. Some of us actually prefer this lifestyle.

teller said:

You know, you're right, I think that is a lot of what I'm reacting against. And it's fine that it works for other people, as long as all parties are happy.

I could never, ever be with a man who had that attitude towards me, though. Not because I don't take care of myself or care how I look or have a life. . .but becaues those are not the things I want to be valued for. Those are things I do for me, not because "my" man is essentially paying me to do them.

tackam said:

I don't think anyone is actually paying anyone to do anything. Don't you wanna look good for your honey? I know I do. Er...good enough anyway. :LOL:

00769BAD said:

Well fuck, I think you and Ian should get married, that's what I think.

Yeah, I do. But Ian is like, 'I pay the bills, so I expect to come home to a hottie'. Fuck that.

tackam said:

I think I detect a reaction against the role of woman as homemaker and man as provider. Some of us actually prefer this lifestyle.

But what I will say is, dividing the "labor" that way (with women at home and men working outside of the home) is fine. I grew up that way and my mother was very proud of what she did. But what must be included for that arrangement to work is the attitude that homemakers also work and bring value to the arrangement. If you think about the money it costs to hire a nanny, a housecleaner, a personal assistant to run your errands, and a call-girl to attend social functions and have sex with--that's quite a bit of money! And she's on-call, 24 hrs per day! Having the concept that women at home don't work and that the man is out there all day slaving away while she does nothing--thus, could be having manicures, facials, etc. to improve her appearance--is a bit much.

tackam said:

No, Ian's like, I expect her to maintain to some level, as I do myself. It's the fact that he's the breadwinner that bugs you.

teller said:

Maybe it's the "some level" that is the issue here. What is the expectation? Wouldn't you say most men and women do take care with their appearance, and aren't we talking about just a few who aren't? So what's the allowed change? 10 lbs, 20 lbs? What if a guy goes bald? Should he get a toupee so he doesn't make his wife look bad, so he comes off virile and attractive?

tackam said:

No, Ian's like, I expect her to maintain to some level, as I do myself. It's the fact that he's the breadwinner that bugs you.

But if he felt that any of that entitled him to control me. . .to tell me that the way I wanted to be wasn't good enough for him. . .that fact would bother me.

tackam said:

Certainly not...in fact, it is the natural order that the woman should control the man to some extent.

tackam said:

Don't worry Tack, the only way i'm puttin in 12 hours of work is if the 'new girl' that moved in is REALLY HOT!!!(by that i mean A FREAK )

00769BAD said:

better than an edit

00769BAD said:

Ah, good. I was confused. Before I was blind, but now I can see. . .

". . .if I come back home tired after a 12 hour day and my wife looks a mess, I'd be wondering what I'm working so hard for." --Ian


On this note, if I stayed home all day with nothing to do--no small children to take care of, or volunteer work, or hobbies, or friends to spend time with--I'd get bored and depressed and start looking like shit, too. Women need their own lives, not to just sit there and be her husband's little fashion accessory

teller said:

I didn't interpret it that way, but only Melissa can speak for herself on what she meant, so I won't say how I interpreted it...

But what I will say is, dividing the "labor" that way (with women at home and men working outside of the home) is fine. I grew up that way and my mother was very proud of what she did. But what must be included for that arrangement to work is the attitude that homemakers also work and bring value to the arrangement. If you think about the money it costs to hire a nanny, a housecleaner, a personal assistant to run your errands, and a call-girl to attend social functions and have sex with--that's quite a bit of money! And she's on-call, 24 hrs per day! Having the concept that women at home don't work and that the man is out there all day slaving away while she does nothing--thus, could be having manicures, facials, etc. to improve her appearance--is a bit much.

When children are small, it's harder for women to be at their best. New moms especially get little sleep, so perhaps they'll have bags under their eyes, their hair won't look so nice. And quite a few of them now also hold down a part time or full time job.

The best thing any spouse could do to ensure that their wife keeps up the appearance he wants her to have, is to give her help around the house. Unload the dishwasher one time. Watch the baby while she gets to take a shower (I know moms whose babies are so cranky that they can't even put them down long enough to take a shower, cause the baby screams and screams and screams, let alone put on makeup or go work out at the gym)

Anyway, just putting some thoughts out there. Most women are going to put in the basics of taking care of her appearance. When/if there's an extreme change, there's most likely something underlying going on within the relationship that needs to be addressed.
[This message was edited Sun Aug 24 11:49:43 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo]

Yeah, I do. But Ian is like, 'I pay the bills, so I expect to come home to a hottie'. Fuck that.

tackam said:

Well that's not what I said, and you know it My point was that for ANY man, being a good provider for his family is important. I'm talking about a situation where a man is busting his ass all day working hard trying to create a good life for his family, and coming home to a woman who barely even managed to brush her hair and dress herself properly. That imbalance just doesn't fly.

Anyway you and I will never be on the same page with regard to relationship dynamics and monogamy... the way you do things is a bit different, and I just can't figure it out. So agree to disagree and all that!

Jesus Christ this thread has me so depressed and so jaded I'm going on a diet right this second.

Well as soon as I finish eating this tub of ice cream.