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PrintableI work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her. I GOT YA, I GOT YA, I GOT YA PUNKASS! REPEAT | |
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CtheUncanny said: I work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her.
People get old. | |
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EvilWhiteMale said: I think it's important for both men and women to keep themselves in good health and shape for their partners. They should mainly do it for themselves of course, but it's good for a relationship if each person finds the other physically attractive as well. Because as much as people like to make excuses, physical attraction is natural and good.
People get old. | |
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Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: I work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her.
People get old. Yes they do, but they don't need to help the process along. Nothing wrong with staying fit and healthy looking. I GOT YA, I GOT YA, I GOT YA PUNKASS! REPEAT | |
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CtheUncanny said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: I work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her.
People get old. Yes they do, but they don't need to help the process along. Nothing wrong with staying fit and healthy looking. Absolutely. But metabolism and energy levels drop with age and a lot of folk lose interest in staying fit once they are content in a relationship. | |
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Cloudbuster said: EvilWhiteMale said: I think it's important for both men and women to keep themselves in good health and shape for their partners. They should mainly do it for themselves of course, but it's good for a relationship if each person finds the other physically attractive as well. Because as much as people like to make excuses, physical attraction is natural and good.
People get old. You're right. I was just referring to those who have the ability to keep their looks through good health and such. "You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "
Al Pacino- Scarface | |
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Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: I work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her.
People get old. Yes they do, but they don't need to help the process along. Nothing wrong with staying fit and healthy looking. Absolutely. But metabolism and energy levels drop with age and a lot of folk lose interest in staying fit once they are content in a relationship. Then i will need to meet one of the few because i am. I GOT YA, I GOT YA, I GOT YA PUNKASS! REPEAT | |
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Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: I work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her.
People get old. Yes they do, but they don't need to help the process along. Nothing wrong with staying fit and healthy looking. Absolutely. But metabolism and energy levels drop with age and a lot of folk lose interest in staying fit once they are content in a relationship. Women should get surgery, then, so they don't lose their men. Tummy tucks, lipo, facelifts, laminates on their teeth, nosejobs, cheek implants...  whatever-it-takes-to-get-a-man edit[This message was edited Sun Aug 24 14:43:54 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] | |
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CtheUncanny said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: I work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her.
People get old. Yes they do, but they don't need to help the process along. Nothing wrong with staying fit and healthy looking. Absolutely. But metabolism and energy levels drop with age and a lot of folk lose interest in staying fit once they are content in a relationship. Then i will need to meet one of the few because i am. Good luck to you. I'm with you anyway because I excersise six days of the week but the majority of people sit on their asses and watch television. | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Women should get surgery, then, so they don't lose their men. Tummy tucks, lipo, facelifts, laminates on their teeth, nosejobs, cheek implants... No, but a healthy diet and excercise is good enough. "You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "
Al Pacino- Scarface | |
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My wife and I both slack off...but I still find her extremely attractive. Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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EvilWhiteMale said: AnotherLoverToo said: Women should get surgery, then, so they don't lose their men. Tummy tucks, lipo, facelifts, laminates on their teeth, nosejobs, cheek implants... No, but a healthy diet and excercise is good enough. But when, as Ian has said, a woman is a reflection of a man's provider status, then she needs to "maintain". Droopy boobs, a stomach, a jowly neck aren't "maintaining". Otherwise, he's justified in looking elsewhere... woman-as-status-symbol-not-life-partner edit [This message was edited Sun Aug 24 14:45:25 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: I work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her.
People get old. Yes they do, but they don't need to help the process along. Nothing wrong with staying fit and healthy looking. Absolutely. But metabolism and energy levels drop with age and a lot of folk lose interest in staying fit once they are content in a relationship. Women should get surgery, then, so they don't lose their men. Tummy tucks, lipo, facelifts, laminates on their teeth, nosejobs, cheek implants... I'm not suggesting any of that.  | |
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You're right Cloudbuster... obviously during the "courtship" phase of a relationship both parties are more eager to make a good impression and look good. But once you're married, and have produced offspring... well you've fulfilled the role evolution had in mind for you, so you may as well just relax and enjoy the rest of your years 
My attitude to the problem is that although I do expect my partner to make a reasonable effort to look appealing to my eye, I am happy to fund the process (clothes shopping, cosmetics, hairdressers etc). And of course, I make a reasonable effort myself - I eat well, I go to the gym, I wash, shave and shower regularly etc
Of course people do age, but I'm not much bothered by a few new wrinkles or white hairs. It's more a complete lack of effort that is likely to piss me off. As for natural sagging over time... well until breast augmentation surgery is 100% risk-free, I think we'll just have to deal with it when it happens | |
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AnotherLoverToo wrote: But when, as Ian has said, a woman is a reflection of a man's provider status, then she needs to "maintain". Droopy boobs, a stomach, a jowly neck aren't "maintaining". Otherwise, he's justified in looking elsewhere... Well, if a man loses interest, he's free to leave if he chooses. He may care more about his girl's looks than her personality, but he's allowed to feel that way, even if he's shallow like that. But let's not forget that women do the same shit to their men. They leave them and cheat if they're not attracted to them anymore as well. "You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "
Al Pacino- Scarface | |
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EvilWhiteMale said: AnotherLoverToo wrote: But when, as Ian has said, a woman is a reflection of a man's provider status, then she needs to "maintain". Droopy boobs, a stomach, a jowly neck aren't "maintaining". Otherwise, he's justified in looking elsewhere... Well, if a man loses interest, he's free to leave if he chooses. He may care more about his girl's looks than her personality, but he's allowed to feel that way, even if he's shallow like that. But let's not forget that women do the same shit to their men. They leave them and cheat if they're not attracted to them anymore as well. I never said otherwise. I'm only supporting what you and others have said here...go look at my post towards the beginning of the thread, where I tell Paisley that it appears she has 3 options: 1. accept the mindframe and herself as is 2. continue to be angry about it or 3. lose weight, have surgery or do whatever she needs to do to get the men she wants. | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: I never said otherwise. I'm only supporting what you and others have said here...go look at my post towards the beginning of the thread, where I tell Paisley that it appears she has 3 options: 1. accept the mindframe and herself as is 2. continue to be angry about it or 3. lose weight, have surgery or do whatever she needs to do to get the men she wants. I'm not disagreeing with you, just adding my  ."You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "
Al Pacino- Scarface | |
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Let me set the record straight. I am not expecting whomever i am with to look like ms. fitness for the rest of her life.
But i would like to see some effort to try to maintain the image of the woman i fell in love with. Wrinkles and saggy boobs are all good. I like the natural woman so i have no problem with that. I look forward to growing old and deterioating together to the point we help each other across the street and so on. I just want someone who is into fitness like me. I know for a fact that working out is a persons best and most natural "fountain of youth". I GOT YA, I GOT YA, I GOT YA PUNKASS! REPEAT | |
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<--- enjoys a bit of extra cushion Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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CtheUncanny said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: Cloudbuster said: CtheUncanny said: I work hard on my body. If i am with a woman she must do the same. If she is in an accident or something that would be different. She must try to maintain the look she had when i met her.
People get old. Yes they do, but they don't need to help the process along. Nothing wrong with staying fit and healthy looking. Absolutely. But metabolism and energy levels drop with age and a lot of folk lose interest in staying fit once they are content in a relationship. Then i will need to meet one of the few because i am. Go On C with ya badself.  [This message was edited Sat Aug 23 22:08:40 PDT 2003 by Paisley] | |
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ian said: You're right Cloudbuster... obviously during the "courtship" phase of a relationship both parties are more eager to make a good impression and look good. But once you're married, and have produced offspring... well you've fulfilled the role evolution had in mind for you, so you may as well just relax and enjoy the rest of your years
My attitude to the problem is that although I do expect my partner to make a reasonable effort to look appealing to my eye, I am happy to fund the process (clothes shopping, cosmetics, hairdressers etc). And of course, I make a reasonable effort myself - I eat well, I go to the gym, I wash, shave and shower regularly etc
Of course people do age, but I'm not much bothered by a few new wrinkles or white hairs. It's more a complete lack of effort that is likely to piss me off. As for natural sagging over time... well until breast augmentation surgery is 100% risk-free, I think we'll just have to deal with it when it happens Ian, you know I think you're fab, but. . .  'Woman, I do expect you to look a certain way for me, but don't worry, you can take my credit card to the mall with you. . .now go ahead, buy yourself something pretty'. . .tummy gets a little queasy at that. A lot queasy, actually.
People age. People change. People don't feel like dolling up all of the time. . .part of the appeal of family, including spouses or the equivilent, is that you don't HAVE to put on a show for them all the time. Presumably, the attraction between yourself and your partner is based on personality/intellect. On loving them. Do I want my partners to be attractive to me? Of course. But that just means healthy, clean, and most of all happy and confident. Your attitude would not inspire happiness or confidence in me, and I doubt I'm alone in that. | |
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tackam said: ian said: You're right Cloudbuster... obviously during the "courtship" phase of a relationship both parties are more eager to make a good impression and look good. But once you're married, and have produced offspring... well you've fulfilled the role evolution had in mind for you, so you may as well just relax and enjoy the rest of your years
My attitude to the problem is that although I do expect my partner to make a reasonable effort to look appealing to my eye, I am happy to fund the process (clothes shopping, cosmetics, hairdressers etc). And of course, I make a reasonable effort myself - I eat well, I go to the gym, I wash, shave and shower regularly etc
Of course people do age, but I'm not much bothered by a few new wrinkles or white hairs. It's more a complete lack of effort that is likely to piss me off. As for natural sagging over time... well until breast augmentation surgery is 100% risk-free, I think we'll just have to deal with it when it happens Ian, you know I think you're fab, but. . . 'Woman, I do expect you to look a certain way for me, but don't worry, you can take my credit card to the mall with you. . .now go ahead, buy yourself something pretty'. . .tummy gets a little queasy at that. A lot queasy, actually.
People age. People change. People don't feel like dolling up all of the time. . .part of the appeal of family, including spouses or the equivilent, is that you don't HAVE to put on a show for them all the time. Presumably, the attraction between yourself and your partner is based on personality/intellect. On loving them. Do I want my partners to be attractive to me? Of course. But that just means healthy, clean, and most of all happy and confident. Your attitude would not inspire happiness or confidence in me, and I doubt I'm alone in that. Too bad This is how men feel - what's the point in pretending otherwise? I've never pandered to political correctness.
Like I said, if you love someone you'll love the way they look first thing in the morning etc, nobody said anything about "dolling up all the time". But if a women makes ZERO effort for months on end and let's herself go to shit because she feels she has this comfy umbrella of a relationship that requires no work on her part, she can reasonably expect to have her man feel a bit pissed off... and all that may entail later. It's particularly relevant when your partner changes radically after marriage. I've seen it first hand - a friend of mine married his long-time girlfriend, and within a year everything had changed from the days when they were dating. She looked like shit, did little more than sleep and eat and watch TV, and became more of an asexual mother figure than a lover or a partner. You'd best believe that can kill a relationship stone dead. If I grew a beer belly, pissed my career down the toilet and stopped paying the bills you can be damn sure my woman would be complaining. Of course in a loving relationship one can reasonably expect unconditional love and support, but both parties have responsibilities required to sustain a healthy long-term relationship. If they can't deliver on those, they are just wasting time. | |
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ian said: AnotherLoverToo said: Cloudbuster said: ian said: Paisley said: Today I was watching Maury and he was talking to guests "men" who were not pleased with the way their wife or partner looked, they were saying that they let theirselves go after they had babies and so on, if you really love someone it shouldn't matter to you if they gained a few pounds or dont dress as sexy as they use to. What matters most is how that person treats you.
Er, no. There's a lot more to sustaining a relationship you know. If a man just wants people who'll treat him well, he has his friends for that. A woman plays a more complex role in a man's life. If a woman "let's herself go", loses her looks, or stops making an effort to look good, that can have a serious affect on a relationship. Some men might be happy to put up with a sexless mother-figure for a partner, but most men place a high importance on sex and sexual attraction. There are other reasons which might seem silly to you - but for some men, the physical appearance of their woman is a direct reflection of (a) her feelings about him and (b) his ability to provide for her as a husband. Obviously women can lose their figures from childbirth and that is understandable, but if a woman just ceases making any effort to look nice for her man, that is bound to bother the man. He might feel that it basically says she doesn't care about him enough to even try to please him by making small token gestures... and he may feel that it looks to other people as if he is a bad provider. Those two issues alone are enough to leave a man feeling somewhat immasculated and it is unsurprising when he starts looking outside the relationship for new female companionship. Not condoning behaviour on either side of the argument of course, but there's certainly more to it than you mentioned in your post. Sure, if you love your woman you'll love her as she is, and you'll love the way she looks at 8am with messy hair and no makeup. However, if that look persists for the rest of the day or indeed for weeks or months, I'd start asking questions! Good post. Absolutely--wife as eyecandy/armcandy, a reflection of a man and how he wants others to perceive him. I didn't say it was right or wrong, but that's how men feel sometimes. Dismiss those feelings at your own peril
A man can be a simple creatures in some ways. He wants to be appreciated by his woman, and wants to be a good provider. Well written and balanced! You aren't requesting perfection but maintenance! | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: Well, allow me to spit some truth.
I assume that "as she is" means that she hasn't changed. So if you're a big girl when the guy meets you, then it should be all good unless you really pork out. I look at it like this. I respect myself and my body, and i don't put just anything in my body. I'm a vegetarian, i don't drink soda, i don't smoke, etc. I work out semi-regularly (it's not the bane of my existence). If i fall in love with a person, it's true that you are falling in love with the person not the package, but the package does reflect the person. I'm not into super-model types, and i don't expect the woman i'm with to be perfect, because i'm not perfect. But if the woman i love, decides to pack on let's say 60 extra pounds, yeah there's a problem. First of all it tells me that you're too comfortable, and you should NEVER be that comfortable in a relationship. Why is it that women think that once they "settle down" that all of a sudden it's okay to pork out? And if they end up single, then it's time to go to the gym? What does that say to the person that you're with? You don't care what you look like for him? That's bull. SO enough with all the man-hater crap. Gaining 10 pounds is nothing. Gaining 60 pounds is a deal breaker. And just to be fair, i won't gain 60 pounds either. Aight? I feel this also is balanced! You aren't asking for Ms. fitness but to continue to care. Applying a little effort never hurt anyone! | |
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ian said: tackam said: ian said: You're right Cloudbuster... obviously during the "courtship" phase of a relationship both parties are more eager to make a good impression and look good. But once you're married, and have produced offspring... well you've fulfilled the role evolution had in mind for you, so you may as well just relax and enjoy the rest of your years
My attitude to the problem is that although I do expect my partner to make a reasonable effort to look appealing to my eye, I am happy to fund the process (clothes shopping, cosmetics, hairdressers etc). And of course, I make a reasonable effort myself - I eat well, I go to the gym, I wash, shave and shower regularly etc
Of course people do age, but I'm not much bothered by a few new wrinkles or white hairs. It's more a complete lack of effort that is likely to piss me off. As for natural sagging over time... well until breast augmentation surgery is 100% risk-free, I think we'll just have to deal with it when it happens Ian, you know I think you're fab, but. . . 'Woman, I do expect you to look a certain way for me, but don't worry, you can take my credit card to the mall with you. . .now go ahead, buy yourself something pretty'. . .tummy gets a little queasy at that. A lot queasy, actually.
People age. People change. People don't feel like dolling up all of the time. . .part of the appeal of family, including spouses or the equivilent, is that you don't HAVE to put on a show for them all the time. Presumably, the attraction between yourself and your partner is based on personality/intellect. On loving them. Do I want my partners to be attractive to me? Of course. But that just means healthy, clean, and most of all happy and confident. Your attitude would not inspire happiness or confidence in me, and I doubt I'm alone in that. Too bad This is how men feel - what's the point in pretending otherwise? I've never pandered to political correctness.
Like I said, if you love someone you'll love the way they look first thing in the morning etc, nobody said anything about "dolling up all the time". But if a women makes ZERO effort for months on end and let's herself go to shit because she feels she has this comfy umbrella of a relationship that requires no work on her part, she can reasonably expect to have her man feel a bit pissed off... and all that may entail later. It's particularly relevant when your partner changes radically after marriage. I've seen it first hand - a friend of mine married his long-time girlfriend, and within a year everything had changed from the days when they were dating. She looked like shit, did little more than sleep and eat and watch TV, and became more of an asexual mother figure than a lover or a partner. You'd best believe that can kill a relationship stone dead. If I grew a beer belly, pissed my career down the toilet and stopped paying the bills you can be damn sure my woman would be complaining. Of course in a loving relationship one can reasonably expect unconditional love and support, but both parties have responsibilities required to sustain a healthy long-term relationship. If they can't deliver on those, they are just wasting time. "This is how men feel". . .well, it's how YOU feel, and you're entitled to it, but I don't think you want to go speaking for all men here, darlin'. 
We were talking about appearance. You've added in some new things here. . .if I person stops participating in life after they get married, clearly something has gone wrong. I would hope that a partner's reaction would be concern, not anger. I would hope that he would wonder and care about what has happened to cause the change in behavior, rather than getting pissy about having "my woman" look like "shit". I guess part of it comes down to knowing your partner. If your partner felt compelled to be fake with you (ie. look good and live an active life when that's not really what they wanted) before things got serious, and you didn't figure that out, that's a problem. I don't think a person who genuinely cares about themselves and is engaged in life is going to 'get lazy' after committment, because those things weren't based on pleasing her partner, they were based on her own sense of self worth and enjoyment of life (as it should be). If you marry a person who was being fake for ya, well. . .sorry. Look for a healthier relationship next time. If you marry somebody who goes from genuinely confident and vibrant to couch potato, I think you should be worried about depression and try to offer help and support. Not anger and disgust. I'm just put off by this sense that a partner's personal appearance is something you should take personally, as though she has the duty to look the way you want her to, and you have a duty to finance that. It's such a posessive and shallow attitude. IMHO, as always. | |
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tackam said: I'm just put off by this sense that a partner's personal appearance is something you should take personally, as though she has the duty to look the way you want her to, and you have a duty to finance that. It's such a posessive and shallow attitude.
Not in the slightest. To say it is shallow and possessive is just completely dismissing a very core need for any man. Like I've said before, if a woman shows that she isn't interested in making some small token gesture that says she is interested in making her man happy and maintaining herself as a woman, it is entirely understandable that a man would feel disappointed. Not right or wrong, but understandable. Some men might not admit to it, and feed you shit you wanna hear ("oh no honey, I don't care how you look") and I realise that's a handy excuse for a woman to then slob around in tracksuit bottoms 365 days a year, but while that's going on he'll be looking elsewhere, at other women, and wondering if he made the right choice. In my case, I like to think I'm a good guy - I'm faithful and supportive. I pay the bills, provide well for my family, and I work very hard, long hours. I eat well, go to the gym, and take care of my health, fitness, and appearance. If there ever was any quibble over my woman making a bit of an effort to maintain her appearance (what, 20 minutes out of a day?) I'd be asking some tough questions. I work mad long hours to create a good standard of living for my wife and I, and really if I come back home tired after a 12 hour day and my wife looks a mess, I'd be wondering what I'm working so hard for. I really don't think it is too much to ask of a woman that she maintain herself well, her health, her fitness, her appearance. It's about dignity as much as anything else. I should mention too that my wife is truly great in this regard, and she'd consider herself a diehard feminist. | |
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Ok, ok. Let me put a 'BAD SPIN' on this.
I know there's an issue with the LOOK thang and we all should have them. Why put up with a slob? They weren't like that in the beginnin so why should you have to accept it now? Yes, women go through changes after barin chillin, maybe their stomaches go all flabby and shit. I'm sympathetic. But, when they use that as a reason to say FUCK IT, i feel obligated to say FUCK IT too. It's beyond the Physical Appearence, It's THE ATTITUDE. FUCK IT generates into all other sorts of behavior. NO SEX DRIVE, SHITTY HOUSE KEEPIN, NO SEX DRIVE 
Shit, i've seen some muthafuckas get stuck with a bitch that don't feel like brushin their teeth 'til they get ready to leave the house. WTF??? I'm not woman bashin, this is about why MEN feel like they do. "AS SHE IS" is way too general to warent a legitiment answer that won't be contested. Why the fuck would a woman let herself change that drasticly in the first place? Why would she stay with a muthafucka that did the same thing to her (himself)? I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME  ™ | |
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 BAD, I understood that! | |
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ian said: BAD, I understood that! HUH???
Whut the fuck did he just say??? I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME ™ | |
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ian said: tackam said: I'm just put off by this sense that a partner's personal appearance is something you should take personally, as though she has the duty to look the way you want her to, and you have a duty to finance that. It's such a posessive and shallow attitude.
Not in the slightest. To say it is shallow and possessive is just completely dismissing a very core need for any man. Like I've said before, if a woman shows that she isn't interested in making some small token gesture that says she is interested in making her man happy and maintaining herself as a woman, it is entirely understandable that a man would feel disappointed. Not right or wrong, but understandable. Some men might not admit to it, and feed you shit you wanna hear ("oh no honey, I don't care how you look") and I realise that's a handy excuse for a woman to then slob around in tracksuit bottoms 365 days a year, but while that's going on he'll be looking elsewhere, at other women, and wondering if he made the right choice. In my case, I like to think I'm a good guy - I'm faithful and supportive. I pay the bills, provide well for my family, and I work very hard, long hours. I eat well, go to the gym, and take care of my health, fitness, and appearance. If there ever was any quibble over my woman making a bit of an effort to maintain her appearance (what, 20 minutes out of a day?) I'd be asking some tough questions. I work mad long hours to create a good standard of living for my wife and I, and really if I come back home tired after a 12 hour day and my wife looks a mess, I'd be wondering what I'm working so hard for. I really don't think it is too much to ask of a woman that she maintain herself well, her health, her fitness, her appearance. It's about dignity as much as anything else. I should mention too that my wife is truly great in this regard, and she'd consider herself a diehard feminist. ". . .if I come back home tired after a 12 hour day and my wife looks a mess, I'd be wondering what I'm working so hard for."
Ok. Well. I hope you hold values and live your life in a way that makes you happy. If that's the case, good for you. But you and I are so far from being on the same page, I'm not even sure we're in the same library, so I'm gonna stop now. | |
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