well, sometimes the homos don't have the best families or friends to begin with.

sometimes pregnant girls get kicked out of the house by their own families and turned away by friends.

instead of support its so much easier to turn away or turn your head. If you don't see it, it doesn't exists.


putting kids in a gay high school is not the answer. If kids are disowned by family and friends, then there should be a safe haven to turn to in every city. Just like battered wives or molested kids.

Not a high school for pregnant girls, because they get picked on and thrown out of public schools. Teach birth control and let them sit in a classroom like the rest of the students.

Not a high school for black kids that get picked on.

Not a high school for girls who are fat, or wear glasses, or who who don't have nice clothes.


Harvey Milk money should go to education but not a high school. Unless there will also be a gay college he/she can go to afterwards and then a gay job after that so he/she will never be picked on again

jthad1129 said:

I agree with you on this. As I said before in this thread this needs to be tackled at the root level. Building a school for gay kids won't do anything to educate anybody in the ways that are needed in order to create a society in which we aren't attacked from day one...

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

hey supa

jthad1129 said:

Anxiety said:

That sounds so far fetched but I believe you. Fuckin bizarre!!!

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I am:

a) Queer as a catfart;

b) Someone who was picked on a whole HELL of a lot in school;

and

c) A former employee of the organization in question.


You'll note that "misguided" is nowhere on that list.

What happened to you had NOTHING to do with you being gay. NOTHING. If anything, it had to do with the offending party's discomfort with his own sexuality and it could be argued that it might have to do with his OWN fear of possibly being gay.

I know incidents like that hurt, but the only way to take the pain away from situations like that is to LOOK BEYOND THE SURFACE and examine the source of the problem.

The "problem" was not that you were gay. The "problem" was that the person who messed with you was intolerant and ignorant because you were different to him, and that threatened him. He was uneducated. He didn't have the mental resources to understand what you were about, and so you were "the other" to him.

This needs to be changed. And separating kids who are viewed as "different" is NOT the solution. Giving LGBT kids a safe space to come together and talk about their experiences and try to figure out some way of creating change? Yeah, I'll buy that. That's why groups like PFLAG and GLISEN are so important. That's why LGBT community centers with strong and effective youth groups are important. But ghettoizing our youth from so-called "mainstream society" is NOT the answer.

CAMILLE4U said:

What about youth who are questioning, and aren't ready to commit to the label of "gay"?

What about bisexual youth who might feel a pressure in such a setting to define themselves as gay or lesbian?

What about transgendered youth who, trust me, will STILL get picked on by other students?

What about issues of race, of class, of sexism, of disability? There are still PLENTY of ways for kids to be marked "different", even in an LGBT school setting, and kids will pounce on those students.

The issue is not about being gay. The issue is accepting difference. And that will not be solved by sheltering one group from another.

Anxiety said:

I still think you are misguided as all the times I was attacked in my life, it was because of my sexuality and not always from people who were confused about their own sexuality. I was often subject to abuse at the hands of family, friends and even women. If it had nothing to do with me being gay, the word faggot would never have come up.

Again, I think it's reducing the issue by just stating that people picked on me, you, us because we were different. They picked on us because we are gay. That's the fact jack.

And I too agree that segregation is not the solution.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Now, why would someone pick on you because you're gay if it wasn't because they didn't like the fact that you weren't the same as them? a/k/a: DIFFERENT?

Why do bigoted white people hate people of color? Because they're DIFFERENT!

Why do people from different generations so often have such a difficult time relating to each other? Because they're DIFFERENT!

Aw, just come on over here, I'll spin some Sly and we can get our groove on to "Everyday People". That'll get us on the same page.

Seriously, now - if you defined yourself as openly gay when you were growing up, that was a bold, and some would say ADMIRABLE, move. But you took a risk, by defining yourself as "different" from the flock. When I was in high school, I didn't know what I was. I just knew I didn't wanna be like the jocks and the preps and all the "popular" types because, well...they were boring to me. And so that set me apart as "different". I got called "fag" a lot, even though I had a girlfriend for three years and I was very much emotionally attached to her. How many kids who AREN'T gay get pegged as "fags", just because they're not like the rest of the kids? Should THEY go to the gay high school too?

I'm sorry, I just can't get with your POV. I respect the fact that we have differing opinions, but I don't think that you can separate your situation from the simple problem of dealing with difference in schools, regardless of WHAT it is that sets you apart.

Let me speak very softly on this topic.
I am a gay man, 23 years old, born & raised in southern Kentucky. I was teased everyday in school and I do mean everyday. I agree that there shouldn't be a seperate school for gay youth. However, I also think that the "mainstream" education system should provide a more pro-active base to put an end 2 fag-bashing. Unlike many of the ppl in here, i was never physically harmed, but the verbal abuse did more damage. I went thru my entire high school years with a self-image that was bordering upon nil. My grades didn't suffer, because i discovered that the only way to make it in life is to out-smart those who would choose to pick on u. I would do nothing if not better myself. I am scheduled to go 2 my 5 year reunion in sept. and I plan on taking a date. I have recently moved from my hometown, but I do run into the occasional classmember who has put on the pounds, had 40 kids, living on wellfare **not that there is anything wrong with it**, been married & divorced 2 times, ect, ect. I also look forward to seeing the teachers that set by and witnessed the damnation of my very character and said nothing. I want them to see that I am now a sucessful business man who has self-esteem and can have anyone out there that he wants. My senior year, I took 3 dates to prom, was the pimp. At my reunion, I am taking 2 dates to the prom, one guy & one chick. I enjoy nothing more than to be talked about. When they pick on me, they leave those who are unarmed alone. The abuse did make me a stronger person. However, I wish that there was somewhere that I could have turned to keep from needing the self-protection. In Kentucky, there is only one high school that offers a gay support group and it is to be held after the FCA meetings **Fellowship of Christian Atheletes**. Educate your children, and if u don't, realize that somewhere down the line, someone will educate them for you. It may be that 300lbs drag queen who you don't know is a defensive end for a major NFL team, it may be the 130lbs of waiter that u piss off. Or it might be me, the annoying lil faggot that just don't quit.

what a stupid fucking idea.


and i'm fucking GAY!

alexnevermind319 said:

.


that shit aint right.



.

Hmm... I'm not so sure how I feel about this one.

On the one hand, I can understand the argument that a more integrative, systemic strategy of tackling homophobia might more quickly progress the public toward an inevitable time of tolerance for gays. Let's face it: One day being LGBT in the U.S. will be only slightly more charged a factor, either socially or policywise, than being Asian... and we ought to prepare everyone for that time.

On the other hand, as I compare the LGBT plight to that of other minority groups, I can see motivation for this sort of initiative...

1) All things being equal (and that most largely means financially equal), students who attend group-based institutions of education (i.e., Jewish, Catholic, African American, all-girl, all-boy, etc.) fare better in some ways than their respective counterparts in integrative educational settings. While the jury is out regarding whether academic performance tends to be higher, their extracurricular involvement is often more vigorous; their institutional, group and personal confidence is well-seated; and, contrary to what some might like to believe, their socialization capacity with the world beyond their "in-group" is perfectly fine. After all, we're only talking school hours here, NOT some 24/7 quarantine program.

2) Though it might be better to circulate tolerance-based notions to society at large, I certainly don't see any current concerted effort to do so... or even any plans. In fact, what mass efforts I do see are quite contrary to tolerance for gays -- just look at Bush's latest statements about gay marriage. Or the Vatican's. Further, the backlash to notions that homosexuality is becoming more acceptable is going to be monstrous. Sure, it may be noble to teach the whole world to sing, but what about those gay students suffering in the interim? Anecdotally, I'd prefer you learn to sing on your own before I join you in the chorus... especially when your "flat notes" come in the guise of daily verbal assaults, fists, and sometimes bottles and bullets.

My biggest concern about this initiative regards exactly what role sexual identity will play. Certainly there are differences among those of various sexual orientations, but I’m concerned they’re too undefined to justify establishing an academy based upon them…

After all, what does “gay” mean? Is enrollment dependent upon one’s level of butchness? What about those who identify as straight but regularly experiment with partners of the same sex? How about those who call themselves gay, but have never been with a partner of the same sex? Are bi students permitted? Half-time, maybe? What about those students who have no idea what orientation they are?

And how will the gay aesthetic be taught? What is it even? If being gay simply means wanting to screw someone of the same sex, that’s hardly grounds to establish a school. What, are they gonna have glory holes in the bathrooms? Yet if being gay means some more deep-seated spiritual and intellectual gratification of a certain common-sex energy and aesthetic (as I contend), how will it be taught? Will there be emphasis on the Alexander the Greats, Sapphos and Oscar Wildes of the world? Anything less seems a waste of opportunity.

It seems an interesting premise to me, but much has to be worked out for it actually to represent something substantial -- not just a gay cultural cheerleading outpost. Perhaps I need to read up more on this initiative.
[This message was edited Thu Jul 31 7:19:46 PDT 2003 by Lammastide]

Lammastide said:

awesome post. You perfectly summed up many of the reasons why I'm torn about this. Which is much much more difficult than simply writing it off as a stupid idea"

Lammastide said:

exactly

and i would love to hear the opinions of the people who have dismissed this out of hand on secular schools. if there should be no "gay school" then why the hell should there be catholic schools or jewish schools, etc?

yeah, it's nice, ain't it:smile:

cborgman said:

Unfortunately, those same people would probably argue against those institutaions as well.

I think one major argument for those schools, though, stands in that those groups have some determinable culture. What is "gay" culture? And is either side fully prepared to suggest we, in fact, are different in ways beyond the bedroom?
[This message was edited Thu Jul 31 7:26:29 PDT 2003 by Lammastide]

Lammastide said:

well, i am two minds about this. is there a gay culture? yes. is there gay history? VERY much so. is it a part of a larger culture? absolutely, as are the jewish culture, the black culture, etc.

on the other hand, what truly seperates us from the culture at large? our sexual practices, to ultra-simplify it. but the other cultures can be extremely simploified as well. color of skin, religious beliefs, etc.

cborgman said:

Hmmm. Good point, I s'pose

damn this topic, yeah i knew it was gonna be like this!!

WOW! there are a lot of intelligent and thought provoking opinions here! i found this thread rather late so i will be quick, as most positions have been touched on.

i don't like the idea of segregating and exemplifying a difference between straight youth and gay youth. rather than putting money into this "gay" school, that money can go to programs at regular schools designed to educate. did racial segregation in the school system work? no. yes, there is still racism but how much worse would it be if our children never sat together? i think stereotypes can only be broken if people are exposed to the person behind the stereotype. i also think making this a public school is a big mistake. public schools are funded by THE PUBLIC. why should every family in that tax system be subjected to paying for that school. they are already paying for public schools that don't segregate. that money would be best used teaching the people in the "straight" schools a lesson on tolerance. stricter rules concerning harrassment can be introduced as well. i think, in the long run, this is a disservice to gay youth. putting them in a bubble of safety is not the solution...what happens when they leave that bubble? what about the kids hanging outside of the school waiting to start trouble?

it really is a tough call. its no black and white issue, thats for sure. i guess at this point, though, we will just have to wait and see what the results are.

imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said:

Well, we already payin 4 this mutha fuckin war bullshit, y not..lol