AzureStar said:

That joke practically wrote itself...

*or maybe god has a self-depricating sense of humor and he made me do it!*

IceNine said:

God IS talking to you! I'm sorry, but, you're fuckin' nuts! Loooney. Yikes!

And you thought I was touched for believing in ghosts.


[This message was edited Tue May 13 16:27:23 PDT 2003 by AzureStar]

AzureStar said:

Much like god, ghosts don't exist.

Silly, silly humans.

IceNine said:

At least my ghosts aren't telling me what to do. You know... when I die, I am going to haunt you. That's what I'm gonna do. Oooh, I could have all sorts of fun! I could slam those double doors next to your bathroom while you sleep, I coul rearrange your dvds on you... mix up your piano deal... OH! I could play in your music room and make wonderful music while you try to sleep!

Yes, I am going to haunt you, just to help you believe.

AzureStar said:

I have heard that ghosts could bring a man to orgasm while he sleeps and that he will wake up refreshed... start sucking, ghostie!

IceNine said:

You supreme being, YOU :LOL:






Greater than edit
[This message was edited Tue May 13 16:33:40 PDT 2003 by SuperC]

SuperC said:

I can see, feel and touch myself... that's more than I can say for your god.

:LOL:

IceNine said:

People don't have to be dead to pull that one off...

AzureStar said:

Death is not necessary, but it is so much more exotic.

IceNine said:

Right... but, I bet when you do see my spirit, when I come back to haunt you, that you scream like a girl!

AzureStar said:

I will take my chances...
...and I won't scream like a girl unless your ghost looks like a spider.

IceNine said:

I won't look like a spider, but I wonder if ghosts have the power to create illusions of other things, like, say, oodles of spiders in ones bed, and not the fake, Halloween ones?

In any case, you did bring up a good point on this thread.

AzureStar said:

I did have a good point and no christians were able to answer it.

IceNine said:

Maybe it was your approach?

AzureStar said:

That would be convenient... but they couldn't answer it, no matter what.

IceNine said:

Would you like me to take a stab at it?

AzureStar said:

Do your worst.

IceNine said:

You see, I had once asked my step-mom this very same question... her being a Christian and the biggest hypocrite in the world.

She said that those who claim that God spoke to them and told them to kill, or do any other "bad" thing, well, basically she said they're insane and that many of them like to push their wrong-doing on God. Now, those who hear God speak to them, those who hear good things, these people are actually talking to God and hearing Him.

So it boils down to this, according to my step-mom:

Those who hear God say to kill and do other horrible things: Insane

Those who hear God say to do wonderful things and give guidance: People who are on a higher-level, spiritually.

I then asked her if God told her to be a coniving bitch who whores herself out and breaks up marriages. She didn't have an answer for me, but I swear I thought I heard God tell her to kill me.

AzureStar said:

That's the way it is with most christians out there... they tend to forget that, according to the bible, god has commanded people to do many horrible things... he commands angels to do his dirty work quite a bit too... he even gets in there and does the dirt himself from time to time.

BUT... these brain-dead fucks think that god would never say anything about killing someone...

Hypocrites and idiots...all of them.

IceNine said:

The problem you're having with this Ice is you have not been able to distinguish good influences from bad influences. They are NOT, I repeat NOT, one and the same. From what I've read of your previous posts, you are quite willing to believe in the evilness with vigor (you're previous avatar will attest to this fact). Yet you cannot seem to comprehend that there is a goodness that is just as, no more powerful than evil. Separate the two -- Good & Evil are not one and the same dude. We are open to the influence of both good and evil. Some gravitate more towards one than the other. This is where our own power of free will/choice comes in. You follow me? This woman said that God told her to do this evil thing. Annttt - wrong answer. That was her choice, as she had allowed herself to be influenced by the evilness.

Blackcat said:

No... you are totally missing the point.

I said that if you believe that god speaks to people and tells them to do good things and you find that perfectly acceptable, then you must accept that people are quite possibly telling the truth if they say that god told them to do something that you don't believe was good. You are totally and completely missing the point.

Evil and good are two sides of the same coin and god is that coin.

IceNine said:

I'm missing the point. Your above statement proves my point -- you don't get the point. These are two and separate entities -- good & evil. I believe it's you Ice who has missed the point.

Blackcat said:

Your Abraham Lincoln statement was silly.
You have totally missed my point, in that I was not ever discussing the ideas of "good" and "evil" and was discussing the fact that christians will not believe that god could tell anyone to do anything that goes against what they believe to be okay when we know that, according to the bible, god told people to do all kinds of shit in the past.

The point *one more time* is that if god tells people to help people, it is exactly as likely that god tells people to hurt people too. There is absolutely no reason to believe one and not the other... THAT is my point and you have missed it totally and have not addressed it at all.

IceNine said:

But you know what I think? I think you actually do believe in God, you just haven't given yourself a chance to KNOW God and because you don't know Him/Her/Them the way you want to, you say "there is no god". You do not understand so you do not accept. Those words sound familiar? Well that is, of course your choice, but you shouldn't make statements one way or the other regarding something you don't believe in. That's just straight crazy.

But it's all good boo, cuz I KNOW (and you can't make me BELIEVE otherwise) that you a really cool dude, you just a little stuck on yourself.

Blackcat said:

You, being a christian, would agree that there is a lot of information in the bible about god's great wrath and vengeance, therefore, you must agree that it is in god's nature to kill, torture or cause suffering.

You ask why I am concerned about god telling this woman to kill her children... I have never said that I am concerned about god telling anyone anything. I am saying that it is just as likely that god told her to kill the kids as it is that god has ever told anyone to do anything nice. Once again, you have missed my point. I do not care what god tells anyone, I am pointing out the ignorance of those who believe that god would only tell people good things when the bible has clearly shows that god is willing to do things that you don't like.

God allegedly flooded the earth and killed pretty much everyone and everything. God told Abraham to kill his son. God visited plagues on Egypt and killed the first-born of all people and animals. God brought pain and suffering upon all humans and animals for all history because someone disobeyed him in the garden of eden.

There are MANY stories like this in the bible, so how can you say that god is loving?

Your theory that I actually do believe in god is inaccurate. I have absolutely no belief in any gods, devils, etc.

IceNine said:

But you don't believe in God so how can you say God likely to be anything, good, evil, loving or otherwise? If you don't believe in God how can you even question my concept of God -- you don't believe in God, so your points are null and void.



Right.


Anyway what I said was God is GOOD, and being good doesn't necessarily mean being blind to the evil ways of men. And in my eyes, He/She/They created all you see here now and in the past. If God thought it good to start over, it's all good. If God saw fit to free slaves against another's will, it's all good. If God saw fit to correct the wrongs of humans in whatever capacity, it's all good. But, however, there is no GOOD reason for a mother to kill her children and say God told her to do it. And you saying yeah, that right it's likely that God told her to do it because he has killed and or caused the death of others. That's like comparing apples to oranges. To equate God's freeing of slaves (etc.) with the murder of innocent children at the hand of their own mother at the instruction of God is illogical in any aspect whether I was a Christian or not. Mainly, because if God caused the killing or did the killing, it was a damn GOOD reason, not for selfish reasons, as is the case with Mommy Dearest. And you don't have to be a Christian, atheist, or any logical thinking person to see the difference. You don't see that?

Blackcat said:

We are never going to reach a point of agreement, as you are missing the simple logic here.

I don't care about the existence of god at all... I am saying that people who BELIEVE in god do NOT believe that god would tell anyone to kill but would tell them to do nice things.

The fact that I don't believe in god does not negate anything in my arguments, as I am simply making logical arguments. If you accept that god speaks to people and tells them warm, fuzzy things, you must admit that the stories of people who claim that god spoke to them and told them to kill are just a valid, as NEITHER can be demonstrated to be true or false. I do not expect you to understand what I am saying, but it is simple logic. It is ridiculous to believe those who say that god told them nice things and disbelieve those who say that god told them to kill. The evidence for BOTH claims is EXACTLY equal.

Let me try to clarify:

There is NO evidence to support the claims of ANYONE who says that god speaks to them, therefore it is EXACTLY as likely that the person who says that god told them to kill is telling the truth as someone who says that god told them to help children.

Get it?

IceNine said:

Being a non-believer in God I can understand how you come to this "simple" logic. But it's not that simple. Example:

Assuming your mother is single and a good woman, worked 3 jobs for money to support her family and send you off to college. Now using your "simple logic" of "likely" do you think it "likely" for her to spend your college fund on a trip around the world with Dexter from Jamaica so she could get her groove on? I hope your answer is No. And my question would be why? Let me answer that for you; because it is out of context with her character and stated goals of putting you through college. Same with God. In my eyes God is good, it is out of context with the character that I've experienced with God to believe that God made Mommy Dearest wack out.

You get it?


And you are right, we will never agree on this subject as you are not, as a non-believer, qualified to speak on the likelyhood of an entity you claim does not exist.

Peace out.

Blackcat said:

First, you are way off again. The god of the bible has murdered MANY people and has cause great suffering... this is documented in the bible. Saying that killing is out of character for god is a ridiculous load of rubbish. If you have read the bible, you will remember many stories of god's wrath and vengenance, therefore it is not even a tiny stretch to imagine god telling someone to kill, as he did with Abraham.

Also, I am EXACTLY as qualified to speak about this subject as anyone, as there is absolutely NO evidence to support the existence of god. The lack of any physical or scientific evidence of the existence of god makes ALL discussion of god purely speculative. Saying that I am not qualified to talk about religion is like saying that all adults are not qualified to talk about Santa Claus.

You will never get it.

Ooh yeah baby, I just love it. Keep telling them Ice!