MickyDolenz said:

EmmaMcG said:

One look at the MCU box office would suggest the opposite. So what could it be if not that the DCEU movies are just not that good?

Ant-Man does not make as much as Spider-Man though. Catwoman was not a hit and so didn't get a sequel. So that has nothing to do with Shazam!. Apparenty Shazam! made enough to get a sequel. Shazam!, Wonder Woman, & Auquaman got sequels made or are in production. Man Of Steel & Superman Returns, no solo sequel.

Those Superman movies were not a big box office success.

Well, actually, they were. The entire problem with the DCEU is the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which I'll get to more in a minute...

Man of Steel

Budget: $225,000,000 (huge budget, should not have cost that much, but they were expecting an MCU level of return)

Domestic: $291,045,518

International: $377,000,000

Worldwide: $668,045,518

That's three times the movies budget before a single dollar for merchandise, licensing, home sales/rentals or tv rights are taken into account. It made more than enough money for there to be a sequel (which Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice essentially is, while also setting up future movies - at least that's what they hoped).

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Budget: $250,000,000 (again, ridiculous)

Domestic: $330,360,194

International: $330,360,194

Worldwide: $873,637,528

Again, hugely profitable before any post theater dollars are included. Let me do the rest of them real quick...

Sucide Squad

Budget: $175,000,000

Domestic: $325,100,054

International: $421,746,840

Worldwide: $746,846,894

Hugely profitable.

Wonder Woman

Budget: $149,000,000

Domestic: $412,815,408

International: $410,009,114

Worldwide: $822,824,522

Massively profitable and it helped with the image/public's perception of the DCEU (more on that in a minute)

Justice League

This is, honestly, their only big misstep. They expected, with all those characters, that this movie was going to be massive... it wasn't. There is no official listed/accepted budget for this movie, but it's widely believed that Zack Snyder's re-shoots for the Zack Snyder's Justice League on HBO cost another $25 million, bringing the final cost for Justice League in total to around $300 million. That makes it one of the most expensive movies ever made. Like, right near the top.

Budget: Unknown

Domestic: $229,024,295

International: $428,902,692

Worldwide: $657,926,987

Not profitable, they lost money. No one knows exactly how much, because the advertising costs for this one were huge, but it's rumored to be a lot. Enough that it either ended or changed their future plans for several of the characters/franchises and they gave Snyder more money to try and fix it (more on that in a minute).

Aquaman

Budget: $160,000,000

Domestic: $335,061,807

International: $813,424,079

Worldwide: $1,148,485,886

MASSIVELY successful and it helped with the image/public's perception of the DCEU (more on that in a minute)

Shazam!

Budget: $100,000,000

Domestic: $140,371,656

International: $225,600,000

Worldwide: $365,971,656

Surprisingly very succesful and much loved by most people who have seen it. Helped with the image/public's perception of the DCEU (more on that in a minute). Important enough that they sucked it into being an official part of the DCEU (it wasn't so much before it was released) and gave it a sequel.

Birds of Prey

Budget: $84,500,000

Domestic: $84,158,461

International: $117,700,000

Worldwide: $201,858,461

Nobody is going to say this is a great movie. But look at the budget - seems likely that DC knew this one wasn't going to make a billion dollars. If they lost money at all it was likely very little. And when you take into account how much merch money they make with Harley Quinn it doesn't really matter. Also, Margo Robbie LOVES playing Harley Quinn and she wanted to make this movie. She's a huge star right now and it's likely at least a small part of the reason this movie got the greenlight was to keep her happy and around for future films (they already lost Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill and it seems Will Smith, although I haven't heard him say he wouldn't be back in the future). Should they have made a better/different Birds of Prey, or told a different story? Yes, absolutey! I don't know why they didn't do any of the rumored movies with Poison Ivy, but that was definitely a mistake. Still, as bad as you think this movie is, it didn't hurt them financially. And it didn't make people dislike Harley Quinn one bit.

Wonder Woman 1984

Budget: believed to be $200,000,000

Domestic: $46,534,027

International: $120,000,000

Worldwide: $166,534,027

Most prognosticators believed this was going to be another billion dollar gross for DC. We'll never know because the plague happened. How this movie managed to make $166 million in theaters when it was released is beyond me. Most theaters were still closed. It was also released on HBOMax at the same time, so nobody HAD to go to a theater to see it. That it made that much at theaters during the plague should tell you how badly people wanted to see it. Unfortunately, it was not NEARLY as well recieved by critics or fans who did see it. Another backwards step in public perception for the DCEU. Next...


Zack Snyder's Justice League

I'm putting this here as a place holder to point out that nobody really knows how much HBO paid/is paying to release these huge movies on HBOMax. Likely a whole lot if the studios/producers involved were willing to let this happen. Fortunately for DC and the DCEU, even though Wonder Woman 1984 hit below expectations, Zack Snyder's Justice League did not. Fans wanted Zack Snyder's Justice League and they got it. That's how badly DC and the DCEU want people to like their movies and their movie universe. They listened to fan demand and gave Zack Snyder another small truckload of money to make them happy. It worked.


But that's the point I've been saying I would get to in a minute from the start...


The problem with the DCEU is not the amount of money the movies make, it's how much money they make in comparison to the MCU. Further, it's not that they don't make enough money to keep making sequels (they do), it's what people, critics and fans, think of them when compared to the MCU.

DCEU movies by and large or profitable, MCU movies are more profitable. Some of them by a huge margin. But outside of that...

Most DCEU movies are not well loved. Some of them are reviled. MCU movies are hailed as "brilliant", "perfect", "classic", even by people who don't know anything about the characters long histories in comic books (unless you're Martin Scorsese - sorry Marty, you're wrong ).

The point I'm getting at is that the discussions y'all are having here are more about the public perception of the DCEU than they are about their finacial success. By and large they are very successfull movies. Really, they wouldn't keep making them if they weren't. But they are not movies that people LOVE. Not the way people love the MCU movies. That's what DC keeps trying to achieve. That's where they want to be.

The problem there is that the universe they created from the very beginning just isn't the same. The DCEU TRIED to go dark, gritty, grimey - like Gotham is portrayed in the comic books. It didn't work. They keep trying, it keeps not working.

Nearly all the DCEU movies have a darker tone - scripts, characters, sets, production design, costume design, lighting, special effects - all of it. A lot of people feel the reason it's not working is because they won't just go all the way with it. They keep trying to get both families and the people who want R rated superhero pathos and in the process they're falling somewhere in the boring middle. And for whatever reasons the DCEU writers just can't seem to find the camaraderie and playful banter that they've nailed in the MCU. That's one of the biggest reasons people have fallen so hard for the MCU - they love the characters and how they're portrayed on screen. The DCEU, either through casting, scripts or directing, hasn't achieved that yet (outside of Harley Quinn - whether you personally love or hate her protrayal she's an insanely popular character on and off the screen and a large majority of fans have bought into and accepted Margo Robbie).

Wonder Woman, Shazam! and Aquaman WERE a turnaround for the DCEU. People, critics and fans, generally liked those movies much more than the movies that had come before. Justice League was a misstep, but Zack Snyder's Justice League went a LONG WAY to make up for it.

Birds of Prey was meh, sure. Suicide Squad was nowhere near as good as it should have been, fine. But The Suicide Squad - filled with way more stars than the first attempt and directed by James Gunn from (MCU) The Guardians of the Galaxy fame - is still a HUGELY anticipated movie and Harley Quinn is front and center. Likewise, sparkly vampire's The Batman movie is getting almost nothing but positive word of mouth. People are looking forward to that one, as well.

People want to see these movies and they are making money. The biggest issue, one which I spent 1400 words getting to, is that people also want to LOVE these movies because that's what the MCU has given us, and they don't. I could sit down and watch nearly any MCU movie again right now and I would enjoy it immensely. I know that because I love those characters, those actors, those stories, that whole universe. Of the DCEU movies I don't really have any desire to watch ANY of them again. If I did I think it would probably only be Wonder Woman and Aquaman. That means I don't want to re-watch Batman and Superman movies... That will NEVER work for DC and DCEU. That's what they've got to change. They've got to get past people WANTING to see their movies to people LOVING them. To people actually caring about the characters and the stories they're telling. Something the MCU has absolutely nailed.