Man, the heat in this thread over a few sci-fi movies!! When did this whole "you're too casual, you don't don't deserve to enjoy Star Wars" thing start?

And blaming these "casuals" for ruining their special thing? ... yeah, I'm just worse than Hitler for working a 50 hour week then wants to spend £10 at the cinema for a bit of escapism ... I should have gone home and nailed myself to the Empire Strikes Back cross instead. GTFO!

DaveT said:

Man, the heat in this thread over a few sci-fi movies!! When did this whole "you're too casual, you don't don't deserve to enjoy Star Wars" thing start?

And blaming these "casuals" for ruining their special thing? ... yeah, I'm just worse than Hitler for working a 50 hour week then wants to spend £10 at the cinema for a bit of escapism ... I should have gone home and nailed myself to the Empire Strikes Back cross instead. GTFO!

I think you might be the one taking it too seriously lol it's just a thread about Star Wars

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

You cannot tell me I'm taking it too serious. LOL It's a discussion about literature and movies

If I complain that the Estate put Parade songs on Lovesexy is that being too serious? LOL
.
You said it: You Don't Care About Star Wars All That Much
So why do you come into a star wars thread like this and take the stance that you do?

You don't support Star Wars

No it isn't about Nostalgia, it's about being true to canon and the mythos
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If youre going to do stories about Greek Mythology then stick to GREEK mythology... People make movies about Greek mythology and don't use Greek people/things and change the mythos, and want people to $upport it.

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God of Egypt failed for the very same reason.
It's simple, if you want people to invest in the mythos the legend the movies be true to that
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Marvel Universe had to learn that lesson...
*
Your response is like telling someone in a 25yr relationship, kids, family-friends, holidays/traditions... eh don't take it so seriously/get over it/move on -if things get a bit shaky

*
Think about this, General Prince fans would have Prince in the place of a festival concert entertainer

it is the hardcore fans that keep the legend and mythos of Prince alive

Casual fans, don't care about Prince's legacy...

[Edited 1/8/20 16:33pm]

Well I think you are taking it a bit too serious lol. It's just a movie. I come into the thread because I like the movie. I like to discuss the movies I like. But it seems some people don't know the difference between discussion and arguments. The Marvel movies have done a lot of things that differed from the comics. I'm not sure where you're going with that one. Are you comparing your relationship with Star Wars to a 25 year marriage? Lol. Yeah, I definitely think you're taking it too seriously. If casual fans are buying Prince albums then I don't think Prince held them in any lesser regards than us hardcore fans. Besides, Prince released a lot of music aimed directly at the casual audience. It would be stupid of him or anyone else to only target the hardcore fans and leave the casual fans, who vastly outnumber the hardcore, scratching their heads. It's very rare that a singer or filmmaker targets the hardcore fans. They will mostly aim towards the casual fans but try to include a few things that only the hardcore will understand. Best of both worlds. I think Prince did that very well with his music. Unfortunately, if your reaction is anything to go by, Disney hasn't done a good job with Star Wars. They aimed too much towards making a fun movie and in the process alienated a lot of hardcore fans. That's unfortunate. But on the bright side for you, they've probably learned their lesson. Next time they'll do what Marvel did with the MCU and plan everything out ahead of time rather than making one movie at a time and then struggle to tie things together. Kevin Feige of Marvel is involved with the next wave of Star Wars movies. I don't think that's a coincidence. So you have that to look forward to. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the movies for being the entertaining spectacles they were supposed to be and we can both look forward to a better, more cohesive Star Wars series in the future.

Emma said: Only an absolute moron couldn't put two and two together

Now that is taking it too far serious

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No, I'm discussing my problems with the movies. And I can take it seriously.
As you probably (hopefully) have other things in your life, that we don't know about, guilty pleasures, escapism, inspirational things, that some might say you take too seriously.

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Here is it, as a 'casual' fan you are not going to agree with someone more 'invested' in the genre

We are not going to see eye to eye about things just for that.
The same way, casual Prince fans/non Prince fans were making jokes about Prince fans mourning Prince and their intensity about things post Prince. They just don't get it.

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Have you ever seen Siskle and Ebert? They got heated about reviews, but they weren't taking it too seriously.

So you casually enjoy the movies...

uPtoWnNY said:

Dauphin said:

The movies are geared towards casual fans and kids for maximum profit.

Therein lies the problem....and it ruined the franchise, IMO.

exactly

was watchin this youtube ... about JJ ...

and his "no scenes , just plot "

pretty good and spot on ...

https://www.youtube.com/w...D5mLw0A8vI

ColAngus said:

was watchin this youtube ... about JJ ...

and his "no scenes , just plot "

pretty good and spot on ...

https://www.youtube.com/w...D5mLw0A8vI

You mean "just scenes, no plot".

BombSquad said:

EmmaMcG said:

Palpatine killed Plagueis. Which proves Palpatine was the better of the two. Which means my point still stands. There is no greater villain in the Star Wars universe than Palpatine.

wrong

Version 1:

Vader killed Palpatine. Which proves vader was the better of the two.

oops! Palpatine still lives! so then Palpatine is the ultimate villian!

Version 2:

Palpatine killed Plagueis. Which proves Palpatine was the better of the two.
oops! Plagueis still lives! so then Plagueis is the ultimate villian!

see? your logic works here too, 100 percent.

and the best part in Vesion2? no need to kill the Skywalker family arc

sure Rian could be blamed for killing of Snoke.

yet I blame the Palaptine mess 100% on JJ (or more on Kathleen Kennedy maybe)

if JJ needs to bring back a DEAD vilian, because Rian killed Snoke and turned Kylo into a weak joke, then also Snoke could have survived. so why all the hoopla? Snoke still lives, it was just a clone killed, that was easy. fucking shit, even bringing back Greedo would have been a better choice than Palpatine

like Luke said: No one's ever really gone..

yes. Why didn't Kathleen work with Lucas on his scripts for 7 8 9... makes absolutely no sense.

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I would prefer Version 2 as well. Why does he have to be redeemed. There was absolutely nothing about him that I liked as a villian and no real sympathy.
I the LEGENDS books Jacen Solo turned Sith is bested by Grand Master Skywalker, but is ultimately killed by his twin Jaina Solo in a fierce duel.

.

And the story of his fall to the dark side and then into the Sith was very good. It wasn't some spoiled brat who just wanted his way. It was very good. His journey and exploration into 'other' Force teachings in the universe, meeting a former Old Republic Jedi(Vergeree) who was possibly dabbling into Sith teachings etc it was really good

You mean "just scenes, no plot"

ColAngus said:

was watchin this youtube ... about JJ ...

and his "no scenes , just plot "

pretty good and spot on ...

https://www.youtube.com/w...D5mLw0A8vI

yes, I wathced this vid yesterday, pretty accurate!

the Khan moment in Star Trek, cool observation I didn't think about before.

Yes? your name is Khan? and...? LOL




or try this-> https://www.youtube.com/w...mp;t=2330s

during lunchbreak today I discovered this, it's rather long, and I'm only 30 minutes into it, but the movie-sin-counter is already through the roof! this hits so many points I was bitching about myself all the way through, and adds lots of new ones I didn't notice after one watch of TROS

I'll watch the rest later today (if it's still available, it seems it lots of footage from an illegal TROS screener)

OldFriends4Sale said:

yes. Why didn't Kathleen work with Lucas on his scripts for 7 8 9... makes absolutely no sense.

as far as i remember Lucas gave her his inital sequel outlines, but she dropped it with the quickness and started from scratch wihtout any plan or roadmap

and it seems JJ shortly talked with Lucas when he took over Ep9 to save the day, but that also lead nowhere.


left enter Paplatine...


https://www.youtube.com/w...5TGJquhP1s

[Edited 1/9/20 7:22am]

PatrickS77 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Darth Plagueis is a novel worth reading.

I love the fact the he was still behind the scenes throught Phantom Menace into Ep II I believe

The story of him searching in the outer regions for force users touching the dark side, his experiments etc very good writing

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Emma said: Only an absolute moron couldn't put two and two together

Now that is taking it too far serious

.

No, I'm discussing my problems with the movies. And I can take it seriously.
As you probably (hopefully) have other things in your life, that we don't know about, guilty pleasures, escapism, inspirational things, that some might say you take too seriously.

.
Here is it, as a 'casual' fan you are not going to agree with someone more 'invested' in the genre

We are not going to see eye to eye about things just for that.
The same way, casual Prince fans/non Prince fans were making jokes about Prince fans mourning Prince and their intensity about things post Prince. They just don't get it.

.

Have you ever seen Siskle and Ebert? They got heated about reviews, but they weren't taking it too seriously.

So you casually enjoy the movies...

That comment was in response to a certain other who has said far worse to me in the past for far less. I don't forget that stuff. I was merely having a bit of fun by calling him a moron. I could have repeated what he called me. But I didn't. But you're right. I am just a "casual" fan. Little things like characters using the wrong coloured lightsabers or new force powers doesn't bother me the way it would bother you. But would you not find it incredibly boring if this whole thread was just a bunch of hardcore fans agreeing with each other about how bad the movie was and patting each other on the back for coming up with new reasons to hate the evil Emperor Walt Disney. Because if it was a thread comprised entirely of people talking about it like it was the Godfather then I would find that incredibly boring. I get it. The movie has its issues. Major issues that even I, a lowly casual fan, was bothered by. But surely there was something about the movie that you liked? Off topic, but have you seen anything from that new Star Wars game? It's set 5 years after episode 3 and is actually far better written than pretty much any of the movies. I think you'd like it.

No I wouldn't find it boring. Because everyone is bringing up things others haven't thought about, or took more indepth.

.

I couldn't like the movie because the storyline was already ruined. As far as future novels are concerned, the one fuck up that started with JJ ended with Leia being trained in the use of the Force. So maybe there will be back novels with stories of her in that respect.
I sorta indicated, indirectly that I liked this part.
.
The only thing I liked about TLJ was seeing Master Yoda, but then let down again, that neither Master Yoda, Obiwan, or anyone else actually appeared in the ep 9

.

And I'm still going to buy the Art of The Rise of Skywalker. The concepts tend to be better than the actual production release. That it is taking another 2 months to be released, is an example of the mess up it was. Usually they come out right before the movie or right after.

yes, I've been into the Jedi Fallen Order.
there is an Art of Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, that focuses on it,

But I don't have the game/system.

EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said:

Yeah. Me too.

Agree with all your points.

[Edited 1/9/20 2:03am]

You don't need to jump to conclusions. It says it on Wikipedia. Plagueis was killed by Palpatine.

Unlike you, I know what it says on Wikipedia and what happened in the EU. But it wasn't confirmed in the movie and they discarded the whole EU as "Legends"/non-canon, so they could have gone any way they wanted with the information that Palpatine gave in the movie.

EmmaMcG said:

That comment was in response to a certain other who has said far worse to me in the past for far less. I don't forget that stuff.

Far worse?? What have I ever said to you? You're not even a blip on my radar.

PatrickS77 said:

EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said: You don't need to jump to conclusions. It says it on Wikipedia. Plagueis was killed by Palpatine.

Unlike you, I know what it says on Wikipedia and what happened in the EU. But it wasn't confirmed in the movie and they discarded the whole EU as "Legends"/non-canon, so they could have gone any way they wanted with the information that Palpatine gave in the movie.

Darth Plagueis would have been wonderful to appear, coming out with Darth Wyyrlok, changing the rule of two, dealing with Kylo Ren

[Edited 1/9/20 8:50am]

i did enjoy the youtube vid ... cracks me up when it got to frick ...

OldFriends4Sale said:

EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said:

Yeah. Me too.

Agree with all your points.

[Edited 1/9/20 2:03am]

You don't need to jump to conclusions. It says it on Wikipedia. Plagueis was killed by Palpatine.

Until recently, it also said that Anakin killed Palpatine.

So if you were going to ressurect one, it would make sense to be Plagueis, because:

1. He was confirmed, in film, as the only one who can 'cheat death'.

2. It would have given an arc across all three trilogies.

3. It would not have made the efforts of Anakin or Luke redundant.

4. It would have felt more original than a remake of ROTJ which essentially TROS is.

SquirrelMeat said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

DaveT said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think you might be the one taking it too seriously lol it's just a thread about Star Wars

Fair enough...just didn't realise name calling was de rigueur on here these days. Times change I guess...

Name calling?

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No I wouldn't find it boring. Because everyone is bringing up things others haven't thought about, or took more indepth.

.

I couldn't like the movie because the storyline was already ruined. As far as future novels are concerned, the one fuck up that started with JJ ended with Leia being trained in the use of the Force. So maybe there will be back novels with stories of her in that respect.
I sorta indicated, indirectly that I liked this part.
.
The only thing I liked about TLJ was seeing Master Yoda, but then let down again, that neither Master Yoda, Obiwan, or anyone else actually appeared in the ep 9

.

And I'm still going to buy the Art of The Rise of Skywalker. The concepts tend to be better than the actual production release. That it is taking another 2 months to be released, is an example of the mess up it was. Usually they come out right before the movie or right after.

yes, I've been into the Jedi Fallen Order.
there is an Art of Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order, that focuses on it,

But I don't have the game/system.

Yeah I was really disappointed at the lack of force ghosts. I thought that given this was the last Skywalker movie, they would pack it with force ghosts. If for no other reason, just for pure fan service. Anakin and Obi Wan would have been great and could easily have been worked into the story with Obi Wan helping Leia train Rey and Anakin could have appeared to Kylo to tell him to get a grip and stop being such an arsehole. As much as I like Harrison Ford, Anakin would have made more sense for me. Besides, I kind of feel sorry for Hayden Christensen. He's a better actor than the prequels let on. As for everyone else, I know that their voices showed up but I would have preferred had they actually appeared behind Rey as she took on Palpatine. It would have been a better visualisation of what they were going for; every Jedi joining together to defeat evil once and for all. Regarding Jedi Fallen Order, I'm very slowly making my way through it at the moment. If you're interested in the story of recommend seeking it out on YouTube. There's a video on YouTube which puts all the cutscenes together, mixed with relevant gameplay and turns it into a big movie. I have to say, the story is really quite good. Forrest Whittaker reprises his role from Rogue One too, which I wasn't expecting.

That was one of the down sides of reading pre movie discussions. I thought I woiuld see Yoda Mace and a few others appear. Someone even created a realistic image of the voices appeared as ghosts behind Rey.

.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/movies/ct-ent-star-wars-skywalker-who-are-jedi-voices-20191221-pp4osii5mjg2fe4prmjxbxxfgy-story.html

.

Yeah Hayden did a really good in ROTS and he carried the part well.

He and the guy that played Obiwan were spotted last year leaving or going to a secret meeting.
I suspect it's more in connection with the planned Obiwan series/movie.

[Edited 1/9/20 18:46pm]

ColAngus said:

wow you guys are super critical !

(I didnt really fret about some of those things but ... it is funny and all are valid points) . I had more an issue with the "sped up fight scenes " in the prequel things ...

Everything about the movie was movie at top speed lol

Agreed, OP, just a shambolic mess of a movie. It's rumoured the original cut was closer to 3 hours, and it definitely felt like a lot of pieces were missing from this thing. The third rate acting and lack of creativity couldn't be helped given who is involved, but there could have been a bit more care in interweaving the plot points and story arcs and giving it a bit more structure. The whole mess is an indictment on Di$ney's lack of forethought and planning; I mean, Moneybags MacGuffin had already run off with his sacks of cash - then they bring him back? Jar Jar is notorious for being unable to complete his arcs and set-ups, so in their desperation they had to resort to nostalgia-mining. The narrative could have been a lot better from the beginning honestly. The sooner Jon Favreau gets given this carcass the better.

EmmaMcG said:

Personally, I'd have positioned Kylo Ren as the new emperor and had Palpatine as a sith version of a force ghost, helping him. Then have Anakin and Luke train Rey. During the climactic battle, I'd have Rey kill Kylo Ren and Anakin's ghost team with Luke's ghost to kill the emperor's ghost. I don't even know how that would work to be honest. Can the force ghosts die? I'm sure someone will tell me. Anyway, they took a lot of creative liberties so one more wouldn't hurt. But in my version you'd still keep the prophecy of Anakin ending the sith and bringing balance to the force and in keeping Kylo as the villain, you could have him do some seriously fucked up things. Worse than killing younglings. Have him kill Chewbacca or something. Something that would solidify him as an absolute bastard. Have some fun with it.

Yeah. Something like that actually would have been better. See, even low life casuals can come up with a better story than "professionals", who get paid millions but really are hacks, who don't have a clue and don't really care. I personally think though that seeing Kylo kill Han absolutely qualifies him as being an absolute bastard, but they could have made him shoot down Leia's ship this time for real, showing that he is absolutely there as a villain now and that would have also solved the Carrie Fisher "problem".

OldFriends4Sale said:

EmmaMcG said:

Yeah, some good points. But like I said, Plagueis had virtually no role in the movies. He was mentioned, briefly, in Episode 3 but that's it. Had there been any kind of actual plan in place before Episode 7 came out, they could have referenced Plagueis more in 7 and 8 so that his eventual reveal in 9 would have made sense. Now, the same can be said for Palpatine. His sudden appearance in Episode 9 doesn't make much sense either but the movie needed a villain after episode 8 so I honestly believe he was their best choice. Had they gone with Plagueis they'd have to devote more screen time to explain to the audience who he is and why they should care. As I've been reminded a few times, I'm merely a lowly casual fan but I knew of him from being mentioned in Episode 3. But my cousin, another casual, had no idea who Plagueis was when we discussed the movie. No idea at all. And I use her as an example of the typical moviegoer who will see this movie. So it's fair to say that not everyone knows who Plagueis is. But, on the other hand, pretty much everyone knows who Palpatine is. Or, as my cousin puts it, "The old guy in the hood who looks like the pope". He's recognisable to the audience and everyone knows him as the villain. So, from the filmmakers perspective, Palpatine makes sense because they can slot him in without the need for additional scenes to explain who he is and what his motivations are. No, they didn't execute it well. I've said it before that Palpatine's sudden appearance in the movie was too jarring. It could and should have been handled better. But given what they had to work with, I think they did as well as could be expected. Mind you, it's not what I would have done. Personally, I'd have positioned Kylo Ren as the new emperor and had Palpatine as a sith version of a force ghost, helping him. Then have Anakin and Luke train Rey. During the climactic battle, I'd have Rey kill Kylo Ren and Anakin's ghost team with Luke's ghost to kill the emperor's ghost. I don't even know how that would work to be honest. Can the force ghosts die? I'm sure someone will tell me. Anyway, they took a lot of creative liberties so one more wouldn't hurt. But in my version you'd still keep the prophecy of Anakin ending the sith and bringing balance to the force and in keeping Kylo as the villain, you could have him do some seriously fucked up things. Worse than killing younglings. Have him kill Chewbacca or something. Something that would solidify him as an absolute bastard. Have some fun with it.

kinda cool. actually I like all of your suggestions and ideas way better than what was actually done in TROS

[Edited 1/10/20 0:03am]