OldFriends4Sale said:

and subsequently the Force Awakens and the Last Jedi

.

Palpatine being alive totally defeated and circumvented everything that ended with the Return of the Jedi. Luke and Leia would both had known he was alive and up to that much evil creating. Especially with Master Yoda still communicating with Luke. And why didn't he and/or Obiwan communicate with Luke and Leia too?

The exaggerated size of the New Orders military(and all the Star Destroyers) had planet destroying weapons. The Emperor knew that the Republic had absolutely no military(which made absolutely no sense) so why would he need to do all his? He could have just trained a couple dark Jedi, lit his own light saber taken 10-50 star destroyers and take over the universe with no 'resistance'

With all the knowledge Palpatine has of the Force, why wouldn't he have known he could pull the life essence out of Kylo Ren and Rey? Which I don't believe he can. And then again what would be the purpose of the military when he can just effortlessly shoot force lightning into the above expanse and disrupt every single 'resistance' ship in the sky? "Unlimited Power!!!!"

The answer to all your questions is as follows:

Disney propsed a trilogy with absolutely no story and no overriding arc.

Somehow, the powers of the Mouse, thought it doesn't matter if there's no story. It won't make any difference to the general public. And they were right to a degree.

Then, in a panic, they suddenly deemed their story part of "The Skywalker Saga" - but fo course there was no story.

So Jar Jar Abrams had to produce something. He had to produce something called Episode 9.

So he and Disney thought: let's just bring back another "classic" character. They know the sheep will eat it up.

Believe you me, Episode 7 and 8 were not set up and created to be the puppet pulling of the Emperor.

That's the answer to all the questions.

i liked this article ..... yahoo is not my fav fact source but ... still ... it

cracked me up

https://www.yahoo.com/ent...18610.html

10. The Death

Immediately after this kiss, Ben rolls over and dies, apparently having given all of his life force to Rey to bring her back to life in what was supposed to be the film’s most dramatic and emotionally poignant scene. At that precise moment in our screening, the entire theater burst into hysterical laughter. Whoops.

12. Chewie died but actually he didn’t

This whole sequence is strange. Chewie gets captured by the First Order when he’s like 30 yards from the rest of our heroes. Then Rey accidentally blows up the ship they were taking him away on. Except actually Chewie was on a different but identical ship because “The Rise of Skywalker” wanted to pull a stupidly manipulative misdirect.

Palpatine should have been dead and NOT resurected for this movie. I think a Palpatine child should have been the villian, pulling the strings while gaining strength in hiding.

EmmaMcG said:

[...] Of course Palpatine can pull the life essence out of Rey and Kylo. It was in the script. If the writers say he can do it then I believe he can do it. They're the ones writing the movie. [...]

That's exactly the reason and the problem. It's bad and lazy writing.

PatrickS77 said:

Phishanga said:

EmmaMcG said:

Phishanga said:

That's exactly the reason and the problem. It's bad and lazy writing.

Maybe. But every Star Wars movie has bad and lazy writing. They've always been style over substance.

Not the same, the Star Wars story from 4 5 6 -> 1 2 3 was cohesive

7 8 9 are not with each other and far from the 1 2 3 4 5 6

EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said:

No. They do not. Palpatine does talk about Plagueis, but keeps it vague as to who killed him: https://youtu.be/_q1n4kY7K8g?t=115

It could be a real legend, it could be made up to seduce Anakin or he could be talking about himself and his master. The movie leaves it open to interpretation.

[Edited 1/7/20 14:10pm]

Later in the movie, when Palpatine reveals himself to be the villain, he tells Anakin that only through him can he save Padme. That Anakin should use his knowledge to prevent her from dying. Which is the power that he said Plagueis taught his apprentice before he killed him. Now, just because he doesn't say the words "I killed Plagueis", that does not mean they were intending for it to be vague. Only an absolute moron couldn't put two and two together.

was that called for?

[Edited 1/8/20 6:50am]

kewlschool said:

Palpatine should have been dead and NOT resurected for this movie. I think a Palpatine child should have been the villian, pulling the strings while gaining strength in hiding.

Yes and/or adding the Dark side adepts that surround Palpatine. Palpatine/the Empire had a lot of dark side users in the Empire.

Sly Moore his 'advisor' was also Force Strong

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I disagree, the majority are very familar with Grand Admiral Thrawn and the thrawn trilogy, So much so that he is canon in this new Universe. No one knew who the Emperor was when Empire Strikes Back came out. No one knew and it's probably still not cleared up who SNOKE was in the Force Awakes. You did not need to introduce someone that everyone would know. But Thrawn especially, and crazed clone master C'boath are very popular. Not to mention the Emperors Hand.

Many people are not buying the return of the Emperor.

Sorry not buying it. No disrespect, but you just must not be familiar with all the characters from the movies, novels and the Clone Wars and cartoon series.

Like in the Mandalorian: the threw a monkey wrench in with the Force strong 'baby yoda'. Now remember this is only 4 yrs after ROTJ. Luke, Yoda(spirit) Obiwan(spirit) would have knowledge somehow about this... Another topic. I'm enjoying it, but it's a monkey wrench for sure.

There are other Sith that we know of... Surviving trained... Asajj Ventress(trained by Darth Tyranus) and know of by Darth Sidious. I believe she was also mentioned in the movie ROTS.
She is in the Clone War animated shows and the new Disney direction also has her in a novel.

https://www.bobafettfancl...-durge.jpg

The new Star Wars movie has made nearly a billion dollars. A lot of people have seen it. You honestly believe that the majority of those people know who Grand Admiral Whatshisname is? Really?? And you seriously can't see the difference between building a villain up over a series of 9 movies and just introducing one in the 9th movie and expecting the general public to take him seriously as a threat? I'm not familiar with the characters outside of the movies. Just like the vast majority of people going to see this movie. And it's people like me who these movies are made for. Casual fans and children. I haven't seen The Mandalorian yet but I'm looking forward to it. We can debate this til the cows come home but you're obviously not taking on board anything I'm saying so I'm not going to waste my time anymore. Just know that witnessing grown men get so bothered about a kids movie not living up to their expectations is not a good look. I'm not addressing you specifically because you've actually been fairly level headed in comparison to some. And I appreciate the recommendations of the books. But anyway, I've said my piece. I hope everyone enjoys complaining about Star Wars. I look forward to the Obi Wan Kenobi show. Should be interesting to see everyone's reaction to it 😂

Look most movies are going to make that $ because people are going to go see it, even if they find out it is no good. So the money amount means absolutely nothing in this microwave generation of just getting anything out there for the masses to consume. Chain restaurants make it hard for neighborhood mom n pop spots, but the latter has substance...

You don't know because you don't care. You are not the long time SW fan. The movies are only 1 part of Star Wars. If the other part the canon, the stories, toons etc didn't make the money and keep the story going the franchise would have ceased to exist a long time ago.
.
I understand building a villian up over time, but it has to have SENSE to it. Palpatine rising again made no sense. Someone tried to do this years ago before the SW novels started up again with Heir To the Empire. I saw it on QVC and ordered it. A series of 5 comics, telling the story of the resurrected Emperor. It was Sugar Honey Iced Tea

It was shit then and made no sense for him to return. Obviously JJ and whoever loved those comics.
SW Dark Empire

Even that story overall was better than ROS

.

No, no it is not made for casual fans and children.

.

You don't know Star Wars, and have said too many things to prove you don't get it. It is not a Kids movie. That is just an absurd thing to say.

ColAngus said:

12. Chewie died but actually he didn’t

This whole sequence is strange. Chewie gets captured by the First Order when he’s like 30 yards from the rest of our heroes. Then Rey accidentally blows up the ship they were taking him away on. Except actually Chewie was on a different but identical ship because “The Rise of Skywalker” wanted to pull a stupidly manipulative misdirect.

Yeah that crap had me twisting in my seat looking at everyone in the theater sideways lol

sro100 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

and subsequently the Force Awakens and the Last Jedi

.

Palpatine being alive totally defeated and circumvented everything that ended with the Return of the Jedi. Luke and Leia would both had known he was alive and up to that much evil creating. Especially with Master Yoda still communicating with Luke. And why didn't he and/or Obiwan communicate with Luke and Leia too?

The exaggerated size of the New Orders military(and all the Star Destroyers) had planet destroying weapons. The Emperor knew that the Republic had absolutely no military(which made absolutely no sense) so why would he need to do all his? He could have just trained a couple dark Jedi, lit his own light saber taken 10-50 star destroyers and take over the universe with no 'resistance'

With all the knowledge Palpatine has of the Force, why wouldn't he have known he could pull the life essence out of Kylo Ren and Rey? Which I don't believe he can. And then again what would be the purpose of the military when he can just effortlessly shoot force lightning into the above expanse and disrupt every single 'resistance' ship in the sky? "Unlimited Power!!!!"

The answer to all your questions is as follows:

Disney propsed a trilogy with absolutely no story and no overriding arc.

Somehow, the powers of the Mouse, thought it doesn't matter if there's no story. It won't make any difference to the general public. And they were right to a degree.

Then, in a panic, they suddenly deemed their story part of "The Skywalker Saga" - but fo course there was no story.

So Jar Jar Abrams had to produce something. He had to produce something called Episode 9.

So he and Disney thought: let's just bring back another "classic" character. They know the sheep will eat it up.

Believe you me, Episode 7 and 8 were not set up and created to be the puppet pulling of the Emperor.

That's the answer to all the questions.

LOL

this was me throught the movie lol

Everything they need to find a dark side user or users for these films were right here

Years of extensive compiling of detailed information

OldFriends4Sale said:

Dauphin said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Look most movies are going to make that $ because people are going to go see it, even if they find out it is no good. So the money amount means absolutely nothing in this microwave generation of just getting anything out there for the masses to consume. Chain restaurants make it hard for neighborhood mom n pop spots, but the latter has substance...

You don't know because you don't care. You are not the long time SW fan. The movies are only 1 part of Star Wars. If the other part the canon, the stories, toons etc didn't make the money and keep the story going the franchise would have ceased to exist a long time ago.
.
I understand building a villian up over time, but it has to have SENSE to it. Palpatine rising again made no sense. Someone tried to do this years ago before the SW novels started up again with Heir To the Empire. I saw it on QVC and ordered it. A series of 5 comics, telling the story of the resurrected Emperor. It was Sugar Honey Iced Tea

It was shit then and made no sense for him to return. Obviously JJ and whoever loved those comics.
SW Dark Empire

Even that story overall was better than ROS

.

No, no it is not made for casual fans and children.

.

You don't know Star Wars, and have said too many things to prove you don't get it. It is not a Kids movie. That is just an absurd thing to say.

I think you're both right, unfortunately as that creates our current situation. The movies are geared towards casual fans and kids for maximum profit. Meanwhile, it's the fandom that literally has carried this franchise, all the way back to the original movie. It's literally one of the most important modern Western mythologies. And, imo, it's been crapped on. But, as Emma states, even Lucas shat on it for that sweet sweet "Merchandizing!" (Eg Ewoks, Jar Jar)

I agree, in part. When he made Star Wars(A New Hope) it could not be said to have been geared to casual fans and kids. Even though we underestimate kids in this regard. When I was a kid when this movie came out, I was envious of adult worlds. My parents house parties, those naughty conversations they had when friends came over to play cards, bowling alleys, pool halls, etc
I didn't care for 'merchandise' in the sense of cut cuddly things. Star Wars 'toys' were just an extension of the movie. Collecting those cards with the movie/concept art images. the Newspapr comics. the Marvel comics. That was all 'grown folk' stuff. Kids/teens latched onto the depth of Star Wars and made it what it was.

.

Same in a sense the way kids/teens/adults did with say "Prince" and what turned into an underground musical culture.

.

but the Ewoks I had absolutely no problem with, they were going to eat Han Solo lol they were some savage mfers. Little wookies.
Jar Jar is another situation, but that really is just Ep 1. Jar Jar could still have been, just without the comedic element. Would have totally changed the tragectory.

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said: There may well have been several suitable villains from the books. But they've never been in any of the movies so the majority of people going to see the movie won't have a clue who they are so it wouldn't make sense to introduce them in the final movie in a 9 movie series and try to explain who they are. The audience wouldn't buy it. Star Wars does have a lot of die hard fanboys but they're still a minority. Palpatine is the only villain who makes sense. Episode 1-3, he appears and beats the Jedi, crowning himself Emperor in the process and proving himself to be the biggest badass in the galaxy. Episode 4-6, Luke Skywalker and his band of Rebels fight back and seemingly beat Palpatine. Episode 7-9, Palpatine returns for the final, decisive round and has more power than ever (UNLIMITED POWERRR!!!). But, through the teachings of Luke and Leia, and the influence of Anakin, Rey and Ben Solo eventually get the better of him and defeat him for good. It took 3 generations of the same family to finally beat Palpatine but they got it done in the end. Now, like I said, it should have been handled better. They left it too late to bring Palpatine back but following Episode 8, they had to work with what they had. And at that point, there was no other logical choice for the big villain. It had to be Palpatine.

I disagree, the majority are very familar with Grand Admiral Thrawn and the thrawn trilogy, So much so that he is canon in this new Universe. No one knew who the Emperor was when Empire Strikes Back came out. No one knew and it's probably still not cleared up who SNOKE was in the Force Awakes. You did not need to introduce someone that everyone would know. But Thrawn especially, and crazed clone master C'boath are very popular. Not to mention the Emperors Hand.

Many people are not buying the return of the Emperor.

Sorry not buying it. No disrespect, but you just must not be familiar with all the characters from the movies, novels and the Clone Wars and cartoon series.

Like in the Mandalorian: the threw a monkey wrench in with the Force strong 'baby yoda'. Now remember this is only 4 yrs after ROTJ. Luke, Yoda(spirit) Obiwan(spirit) would have knowledge somehow about this... Another topic. I'm enjoying it, but it's a monkey wrench for sure.

There are other Sith that we know of... Surviving trained... Asajj Ventress(trained by Darth Tyranus) and know of by Darth Sidious. I believe she was also mentioned in the movie ROTS.
She is in the Clone War animated shows and the new Disney direction also has her in a novel.

https://www.bobafettfancl...-durge.jpg

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Not the same, the Star Wars story from 4 5 6 -> 1 2 3 was cohesive

7 8 9 are not with each other and far from the 1 2 3 4 5 6

Yeah, I can see that. Episode 8 is my favourite Star Wars movie. But it definitely throws a spanner in the works and didn't really follow on from Episode 7 in the most cohesive way. And then Episode 9, which I really liked, was guilty of the same thing by ignoring several dangling plot points from Episode 8. So yeah, not the most cohesive trilogy of movies. But taken individually, I much prefer them over the prequels. Like, it's not even close. The original trilogy ended on a really low note for me. That whole Teddy Bears picnic thing really didn't do it for me. So as a trio of movies, I think the new movies are better. Far from perfect and full of plot holes but still better in my eyes.

Emma, I think you are just going balls to the wall in defence. Everything you said, makes 7 8 9 worst movies. When we have to explain away and justify so much, they are not good movies.
.
IF, the movies were stand alone movies of characters, in other stories, (like how the SW novels have different stories of Jedi/Dark Jedi etc) AND stayed within the dogma of Star Wars, ESPECIALLY the Force, they would be good movies. Stand Alone movies. Without Luke, Leia, Emperor etc But the fact of all the above, makes them horrible Star Wars continuum.
.
When I fully listened to Prince's AoA album, I felt empty and cried a little. Inside I said "Prince is not here" I felt the same way with 7 8 and 9. The Force is Not with this lol

.

I like SOLO, BECAUSE overall it stayed with the continuum of what we knew of Han Solo Chewbacca and the Falcon. When you read/watch SW 4 5 6 and the pre A New Hope Han Solo/Chewebacca novels, SOLO did not deviate from the mythos or dogma

Dauphin said:

The movies are geared towards casual fans and kids for maximum profit.

Therein lies the problem....and it ruined the franchise, IMO.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Another double shut down.

The excuse that they needed a familiar enemy

The cry that 'fanboys' bitched about female characters etc

The first Star Wars novel after Return of the Jedi came out in 1991

from 1991 - 2012 Star Wars canon rendered countless characters many female dark light and gray from all walks of SW life, from Sith, Dark Jedi, Rogue Force users, pilots, Generals/Admirals, etc that all the 'fanboys' would have loved to see on screen
ESPECIALLY
the Emperors Hand(s) Mara Jade or Roganda Ismaren, rogue Jedi gone dark(also seen in Ep 1) and included in the Star Wars Clone Wars stories

Sith apprentice to Count Dooku Asajj Ventress

Sly Moore(Palpatines aid, and secret Force user assisting Darth Sidious)
Aurra Sing, rogue Jedi gone dark, turned Bounty Hunter(seen in Ep 1 during the race) and in the Clone Wars cartoon series

Imperial Director of Intelligence Ysanne Isard (red Imperial suit) had a Super Star Destroyer(like Vaders) the Lusankya

Lady Lumiya(Darth Vaders sith apprentice)
Admiral Natasi Daala

.

neutral female scientist Qwi Xux employed by the Empire to created things that Empire turned into weapons(including the Death Star) who joined the Alliance
Dathomirian Night Sisters(a planet full of force users)

Barriss Offee, Old Republic dissillusioned Jedi who left the Order
Vergere, the Jedi-turned- possible Sith who completed who retrained Jacen Solo(Leia/Hans) son who became a Sith.

.

On the ligt side countless 'female' Jedi Knights and Masters of various species ESPECIALLY LEIA ORGANA(SOLO) the daughter of Anakin Skywalker, deliverd and ready to be put as a Jedi, and the dropped the ball Ep 7 and 8 and 9 threw together a vague Leia using the force

Han & Leia had twins, Jacen(M) and Jaina(F) trained Jedi, complicated very interesting characters
Jedi Knight trained by Anakin Skywalker himself
Shaak Ti, An'ya Kuro(Dark Woman)-also had a purple blade
Ahsoka Tano who survived Order 66

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Emma, I think you are just going balls to the wall in defence. Everything you said, makes 7 8 9 worst movies. When we have to explain away and justify so much, they are not good movies.
.
IF, the movies were stand alone movies of characters, in other stories, (like how the SW novels have different stories of Jedi/Dark Jedi etc) AND stayed within the dogma of Star Wars, ESPECIALLY the Force, they would be good movies. Stand Alone movies. Without Luke, Leia, Emperor etc But the fact of all the above, makes them horrible Star Wars continuum.
.
When I fully listened to Prince's AoA album, I felt empty and cried a little. Inside I said "Prince is not here" I felt the same way with 7 8 and 9. The Force is Not with this lol

.

I like SOLO, BECAUSE overall it stayed with the continuum of what we knew of Han Solo Chewbacca and the Falcon. When you read/watch SW 4 5 6 and the pre A New Hope Han Solo/Chewebacca novels, SOLO did not deviate from the mythos or dogma

Look, I can kind of understand where you're coming from. You're obviously someone who grew up with these movies and has invested a lot of time with the books, cartoons, etc. And this new trilogy didn't go the way you envisaged. But for me, I don't care about Star Wars all that much. It doesn't mean as much to me because for me, it's just a movie series. Of the 9 main movies, I enjoyed 6 of them with episode 1, 2 and 6 being the ones I don't like. So I like two thirds of them. But even the ones I like have their own issues. Now, had I grown up with them, I'd probably look past those issues or maybe not even acknowledge them. But even so, I enjoy them for what they are. I think some longtime fans like yourself are being too hard on the new movies because you're viewing them through adult eyes without the nostalgia you feel for the originals. By the way, I liked Art Official Age 😋

You cannot tell me I'm taking it too serious. LOL It's a discussion about literature and movies

If I complain that the Estate put Parade songs on Lovesexy is that being too serious? LOL
.
You said it: You Don't Care About Star Wars All That Much
So why do you come into a star wars thread like this and take the stance that you do?

You don't support Star Wars

No it isn't about Nostalgia, it's about being true to canon and the mythos
.
If youre going to do stories about Greek Mythology then stick to GREEK mythology... People make movies about Greek mythology and don't use Greek people/things and change the mythos, and want people to $upport it.

.
God of Egypt failed for the very same reason.
It's simple, if you want people to invest in the mythos the legend the movies be true to that
.
Marvel Universe had to learn that lesson...
*
Your response is like telling someone in a 25yr relationship, kids, family-friends, holidays/traditions... eh don't take it so seriously/get over it/move on -if things get a bit shaky

*
Think about this, General Prince fans would have Prince in the place of a festival concert entertainer

it is the hardcore fans that keep the legend and mythos of Prince alive

Casual fans, don't care about Prince's legacy...

[Edited 1/8/20 16:33pm]

EmmaMcG said:

Palpatine killed Plagueis. Which proves Palpatine was the better of the two. Which means my point still stands. There is no greater villain in the Star Wars universe than Palpatine.

wrong

Version 1:

Vader killed Palpatine. Which proves vader was the better of the two.

oops! Palpatine still lives! so then Palpatine is the ultimate villian!


Version 2:

Palpatine killed Plagueis. Which proves Palpatine was the better of the two.
oops! Plagueis still lives! so then Plagueis is the ultimate villian!


see? your logic works here too, 100 percent.

and the best part in Vesion2? no need to kill the Skywalker family arc



sure Rian could be blamed for killing of Snoke.

yet I blame the Palaptine mess 100% on JJ (or more on Kathleen Kennedy maybe)

if JJ needs to bring back a DEAD vilian, because Rian killed Snoke and turned Kylo into a weak joke, then also Snoke could have survived. so why all the hoopla? Snoke still lives, it was just a clone killed, that was easy. fucking shit, even bringing back Greedo would have been a better choice than Palpatine

like Luke said: No one's ever really gone...

OldFriends4Sale said:

BombSquad said:

EmmaMcG said:

But for me, I don't care about Star Wars all that much. It doesn't mean as much to me

Yes. That shows and also that you don't know too much about Star Wars. And then calling others morons for not jumping to conclusions at things that were just hinted at, but never confirmed, in the movie, really makes you that. It's people like you, who don't really care about Star Wars and it's integrity, don't know much about Star Wars, but call others out for raising questions and voicing their displeasur, but line Disney's pockets, that directly contribute to the franchise's downfall. With people like you, the whole shit still makes money and Disney/Kennedy realizes, that they can throw the biggest shit on screen and as long as it looks good, there is always a casual moron or child that brings their asses to cinemas.

OldFriends4Sale said:

LOL

this was me throught the movie lol

Yeah. Me too.

Agree with all your points.

[Edited 1/9/20 2:03am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Another double shut down.

The excuse that they needed a familiar enemy

The cry that 'fanboys' bitched about female characters etc

The first Star Wars novel after Return of the Jedi came out in 1991

from 1991 - 2012 Star Wars canon rendered countless characters many female dark light and gray from all walks of SW life, from Sith, Dark Jedi, Rogue Force users, pilots, Generals/Admirals, etc that all the 'fanboys' would have loved to see on screen
ESPECIALLY
the Emperors Hand(s) Mara Jade or Roganda Ismaren, rogue Jedi gone dark(also seen in Ep 1) and included in the Star Wars Clone Wars stories

Sith apprentice to Count Dooku Asajj Ventress

Sly Moore(Palpatines aid, and secret Force user assisting Darth Sidious)
Aurra Sing, rogue Jedi gone dark, turned Bounty Hunter(seen in Ep 1 during the race) and in the Clone Wars cartoon series

Imperial Director of Intelligence Ysanne Isard (red Imperial suit) had a Super Star Destroyer(like Vaders) the Lusankya

Lady Lumiya(Darth Vaders sith apprentice)
Admiral Natasi Daala

.

neutral female scientist Qwi Xux employed by the Empire to created things that Empire turned into weapons(including the Death Star) who joined the Alliance
Dathomirian Night Sisters(a planet full of force users)

Barriss Offee, Old Republic dissillusioned Jedi who left the Order
Vergere, the Jedi-turned- possible Sith who completed who retrained Jacen Solo(Leia/Hans) son who became a Sith.

.

On the ligt side countless 'female' Jedi Knights and Masters of various species ESPECIALLY LEIA ORGANA(SOLO) the daughter of Anakin Skywalker, deliverd and ready to be put as a Jedi, and the dropped the ball Ep 7 and 8 and 9 threw together a vague Leia using the force

Han & Leia had twins, Jacen(M) and Jaina(F) trained Jedi, complicated very interesting characters
Jedi Knight trained by Anakin Skywalker himself
Shaak Ti, An'ya Kuro(Dark Woman)-also had a purple blade
Ahsoka Tano who survived Order 66

Yeah. There would have been a wealth of stories and characters they could have picked from. But no, they condemned that all to legacy hell and left the writing to a hack who knows shit about Star Wars and the EU and then let another writing hack, who gives a shit about what came before, write 8. Seriously, why does the director also have to be the writer? Why not get someone who is good at writing for the writing? Originally they had someone in mind to write the story, who would have needed 2 to 3 years to come up with a script, but they thought that was too long and hired Jar Jar instead. I'm sure the guy needing 2 to 3 years would have researched and not just copied/created familiar scenes like Jar Jar did.

EmmaMcG said:

Yes, you're right. They could have brought back Plagueis and said he actually didn't die, same as they did with Palpatine. I don't think that would worked as well though. Palpatine is an established character in the movies, known to everyone who has even the slightest interest in the series. Plagueis was only mentioned briefly in Episode 3. Now, I know he was probably in books and stuff but the general audience don't read Star Wars books. They don't really have equal billing as far as name recognition goes. I think Palpatine was the right choice but it was pretty bad how they introduced him. Like, all of a sudden he's there. No hint of him in 7 or 8. Had they actually had a plan in place from the start, it could have been spectacular. I still think he gave a great performance though. Nobody plays the villain as good as Ian McDiarmid.

indeed bringing him back off-screen between movies, just a mention in the opening crawl, that was done horrible.

hey, I'm here! and I can be back in Ep10! and anytime you need me, I'll be here without explanation!

oh dear....

my personal two options if I had been in JJs place:

1. simply bring back Snoke (no problem with clones), he still could be Plagueis (as a fan service if you want) or not

2. turn Kylo into the main villian of the trilogy, without the predictable redemption

BombSquad said:

EmmaMcG said:

Yes, you're right. They could have brought back Plagueis and said he actually didn't die, same as they did with Palpatine. I don't think that would worked as well though. Palpatine is an established character in the movies, known to everyone who has even the slightest interest in the series. Plagueis was only mentioned briefly in Episode 3. Now, I know he was probably in books and stuff but the general audience don't read Star Wars books. They don't really have equal billing as far as name recognition goes. I think Palpatine was the right choice but it was pretty bad how they introduced him. Like, all of a sudden he's there. No hint of him in 7 or 8. Had they actually had a plan in place from the start, it could have been spectacular. I still think he gave a great performance though. Nobody plays the villain as good as Ian McDiarmid.

indeed bringing him back off-screen between movies, just a mention in the opening crawl, that was done horrible.

hey, I'm here! and I can be back in Ep10! and anytime you need me, I'll be here without explanation!

oh dear....

my personal two options if I had been in JJs place:

1. simply bring back Snoke (no problem with clones), he still could be Plagueis (as a fan service if you want) or not

2. turn Kylo into the main villian of the trilogy, without the predictable redemption

Yeah. I personally would have liked option 2, as the person really is inredeemable.