and subsequently the Force Awakens and the Last Jedi

.

Palpatine being alive totally defeated and circumvented everything that ended with the Return of the Jedi. Luke and Leia would both had known he was alive and up to that much evil creating. Especially with Master Yoda still communicating with Luke. And why didn't he and/or Obiwan communicate with Luke and Leia too?

The exaggerated size of the New Orders military(and all the Star Destroyers) had planet destroying weapons. The Emperor knew that the Republic had absolutely no military(which made absolutely no sense) so why would he need to do all his? He could have just trained a couple dark Jedi, lit his own light saber taken 10-50 star destroyers and take over the universe with no 'resistance'

With all the knowledge Palpatine has of the Force, why wouldn't he have known he could pull the life essence out of Kylo Ren and Rey? Which I don't believe he can. And then again what would be the purpose of the military when he can just effortlessly shoot force lightning into the above expanse and disrupt every single 'resistance' ship in the sky? "Unlimited Power!!!!"

Poor R2-D2, relegated to sitting in the background, because Luke is gone. R2-D2 was a hero before Luke was even an egg in Padmes womb.
.
AND the constant hinting the Finn is Force sensitive. Did he ever tell Rey, the thing he wanted to tell her, that Po kept wanting to know about?

.

The Force does not kill people like it did Leia or Luke. The Force does not work like that. And someone like Leia with a much Force potential as Anakin, doing what she did to communicate with her son, would be a synch. Yet Rey and Kylo can communicate across the galaxy, and entering each others space, fight, with no side affects. But Luke and Leia are consumed by the Force?

.

the Force Awakens: Leia did not train at all
The Last Jedi: oops she must have because to be able to use the Force telekinesis to pull herself into the ship from outer space requires extensive training.
The Rise of Skywalker: oh so she actually did train as a Jedi Knight, she just decided it wouldn't be a good idea to continue as Jedi(was that going to stop something? noooo) and so now because they killed off that sorry excuse for a Luke Skywalker, Leia Organa is training Rey and completing her training.

There was not enough Porgs and where was the Jabba The Hut Ghost??????? they brought back everyone else, why not him?

[Edited 1/7/20 2:04am]

EmmaMcG said:

Palpatine was the best thing about the entire series. He's the ultimate villain. As per traditional movie/novel/videogame logic, as a series goes on, the threat must become bigger and bigger so as to stack the odds against the heroes. But where do you go after Palpatine?

serious question? okay, so again the very simple and obvious answer: Plagueis

he could be the villian that created Palpatine (instread of Palpatine creating Snoke & co)

they could have made his arc the outer arc and bracket around the Palpatine and the Skywalker arc. Rey can remain a Palpatine, no problem there. and therefore a Palaptine (Rey) could have been to Plagueis what Skywalker was to Palpatine. that could have been a perfect extrapolation over all 9 episodes:
(Plagueis : (Palpatine : Skywalker))

it even would have given the possibility for 3 more prequels dating before Ep1 expanding the Plagueis arc and back story


but even without Plapatine popping up out of nowhere, there are too many problmes in TROS, the ones mentioned on top of the thread and plenty others.

a major one: they only defeated the hidden fleet of the Emperor, but the First Order is still out there (!!!), just as powerful as before and after they were at the end of the Ep8, so why the fuck celebrate?

hmmm.... Ooops!

most of the problems could have been fixed though, and then TROS could be a enjoyable standalone movie once you ignore the Palpatine problem. unlike The Last Jedi which even outisde the Star Wars universe has to many inner problems and plot points ranging from boring to idiotic

oh, and rumour has it that we might get a longer cut for TROS in few weeks in cinemas, and the full JJ cut on BlueRay later, but that's only rumours for now...

[Edited 1/7/20 7:02am]

I love these types of threads - where we can debate/chat/contrast ideas etc .

I almost did throw up in my mouth tho - when you said "palpatine was the best thing about the entire series " ... i actually thought in the first 3 (episode 4, 5 and 6) he was really a boring charactor and Vader was the highlight ....

to bring him back ... made no sense to me .... why not throw a great curve and make it Darth Plageous ... since he can cheat death - make it that he survived ???

but no we have this pathetic plot (JJ is really wearing on me ) - where it is a rehash ...

I thought it would have been cool even to have someone who "trained or learned " from palpatine and at least was a new charactor (I thought that new guy that killed Huxie would have been a cool evil new charactor - but we rarely saw him ) ...

Chewie is dead oh no he's not ...

ColAngus said:

I almost did throw up in my mouth tho - when you said "palpatine was the best thing about the entire series " ... i actually thought in the first 3 (episode 4, 5 and 6) he was really a boring charactor and Vader was the highlight ....

exactly. only with the prequels he got extended and bevame the main villian from the 6 movie saga.

but in Ep4-6 he had like 15 seconds screentime...

Vader carried the original trilogy. the Emperor could have been written out of the script easily without losing that much. he only served to trigger Anakins redemption. but Ep9 ruined that

Another problem with the Star Wars: Palpatine Saga:

If force ghosts can interact with the physical world (Luke grabbing the lightsaber, Yoda burning the tree) why didn't they help out more. Lots of times they could have saved the day. No?

I will add - I didnt have a problem with "the last jedi" - I think Rian did a credible job ... in many ways I think it was superior to "the force awakens" where JJ didnt take any risks ...

if Rian had worked with the last movie - I think near the beginning when Kylo is meeting the emporor .... I thought to myself - why not have Kylo strike him down right there ... and take over everything ... if he is truly evil ... and the emporor is evil ... why trust the emporor ????? makes no sense ... to me ...

ColAngus said:

djThunderfunk said:

If force ghosts can interact with the physical world (Luke grabbing the lightsaber, Yoda burning the tree) why didn't they help out more. Lots of times they could have saved the day. No?

indeed, I just brought that up in that other thread

it's silly they intorduce so many new abilities of the force no one knew about 25,000 years before...

like Rey floating around and doing yoga shit 5 feet up in the air...? if they can basically fly, why didn't Palpatine fly up and away when Vader threw him down the reactor?


I would love to say Rian started this silly Force improvement in TLJ... but it was aready a problem in Ep5 with all that newly introduced levitation mess

BombSquad said:

wow you guys are super critical !

(I didnt really fret about some of those things but ... it is funny and all are valid points) . I had more an issue with the "sped up fight scenes " in the prequel things ...

ColAngus said:

wow you guys are super critical !

(I didnt really fret about some of those things but ... it is funny and all are valid points) . I had more an issue with the "sped up fight scenes " in the prequel things ...

It's not being critical, it's just things that come to mind when you don't check your brain at the door. The new movies are insulting to anyone's intelligence.

PatrickS77 said:

ColAngus said:

wow you guys are super critical !

(I didnt really fret about some of those things but ... it is funny and all are valid points) . I had more an issue with the "sped up fight scenes " in the prequel things ...

It's not being critical, it's just things that come to mind when you don't check your brain at the door. The new movies are insulting to anyone's intelligence.

to be fair, if you only demand straight logic in movies, then you should have left the cinema in anger back in 1977 when 10 minutes into the film....

"hold your fire, there's no life forms aboard"

yeah.. sure... while looking for some "non-living" plans for the death star... in a univerese full of non-living robots and droids...

[Edited 1/7/20 8:49am]

BombSquad said:

EmmaMcG said:

BombSquad said:

serious question? okay, so again the very simple and obvious answer: Plagueis

he could be the villian that created Palpatine (instread of Palpatine creating Snoke & co)

they could have made his arc the outer arc and bracket around the Palpatine and the Skywalker arc. Rey can remain a Palpatine, no problem there. and therefore a Palaptine (Rey) could have been to Plagueis what Skywalker was to Palpatine. that could have been a perfect extrapolation over all 9 episodes:
(Plagueis : (Palpatine : Skywalker))

it even would have given the possibility for 3 more prequels dating before Ep1 expanding the Plagueis arc and back story


but even without Plapatine popping up out of nowhere, there are too many problmes in TROS, the ones mentioned on top of the thread and plenty others.

a major one: they only defeated the hidden fleet of the Emperor, but the First Order is still out there (!!!), just as powerful as before and after they were at the end of the Ep8, so why the fuck celebrate?

hmmm.... Ooops!

most of the problems could have been fixed though, and then TROS could be a enjoyable standalone movie once you ignore the Palpatine problem. unlike The Last Jedi which even outisde the Star Wars universe has to many inner problems and plot points ranging from boring to idiotic

oh, and rumour has it that we might get a longer cut for TROS in few weeks in cinemas, and the full JJ cut on BlueRay later, but that's only rumours for now...

[Edited 1/7/20 7:02am]

Palpatine killed Plagueis. Which proves Palpatine was the better of the two. Which means my point still stands. There is no greater villain in the Star Wars universe than Palpatine. Of course, they could have simply created a new villain for the final movie but the Star Wars nerds would have moaned about that even more. It makes more sense to bring Palpatine back. Obviously, they could have handled it better. At least hinted that he was behind the scenes from Force Awakens onwards. His return was very sudden. It wasn't written particularly well but that's Star Wars all over. They've all been like that.

Timothy Zhan created 2+ better villians or at least 2+ that showed you did not need to bring "Unlimited Power Palpatine" back... Grand Admiral Thraw, cloned Master C'Boath and the Emporers Hand Mara Jade

.

I think many fans thought 'Snoke' -waste was a cloned form of Palaptine

TROS was a band aid for 7 and 8

Goddess4Real said:

There was not enough Porgs and where was the Jabba The Hut Ghost??????? they brought back everyone else, why not him?

[Edited 1/7/20 2:04am]

Even brought back Wedge lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

EmmaMcG said:

Palpatine was the best thing about the entire series. He's the ultimate villain. As per traditional movie/novel/videogame logic, as a series goes on, the threat must become bigger and bigger so as to stack the odds against the heroes. But where do you go after Palpatine? He's already been established as the biggest villain in the Star Wars universe so if they defeated him, no other bad guy would stand a chance. So they really had no option but to bring him back. And I thought he was great in Rise of Skywalker so I'm delighted they brought him back. Why did he bring out all those Star Destroyers? So that we could have a massive spaceship battle. No other reason. Star Wars is all about spectacle. Always has been. Of course Palpatine can pull the life essence out of Rey and Kylo. It was in the script. If the writers say he can do it then I believe he can do it. They're the ones writing the movie. We're just along for the ride. What would you have R2 D2 do? Personally I'd have killed him off in Force Awakens. Useless character. At least C3PO is good for comic relief. He wanted to tell Rey he was force sensitive, I reckon. There's rumours of a spin off TV show with Rey so I guess that show could be about her restoring the Jedi Order. I'm currently playing a new game called Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order (well, trying to play. New baby takes priority). So far it's really good and it's supposed to be canon as well. Could have implications for the future of Star Wars. They never said Leia didn't train in Force Awakens. But I remember when that movie came out reading a lot of complaints on here that she wasn't doing any Jedi stuff. And now that she's doing Jedi stuff, other people complain. No matter what they did with this new trilogy, people were going to complain because it didn't live up to the movie they had in their head.

1. Naw there are so many other villians who had depth there would have been no need to bring him back.

2. But the heroes size was minimal, so the villian did not need to stack much agains a Republic that had no army to fight anyone with. The 'Resistance' was always on the brink of being defeated. Palpatine didn't need to hide in order to get Ren on his side. 50,000 star destroyers, each with the capablity of destroying a planet... lol overkill

3. What were they going up against to stand a chance? The Republic was destroyed in the first movie with a planet-death star that destroyed 3-5 Republic planets in 1 shot. A Republic that had no military at all lol so that was nothing to stand a chance against.

4. All those star destroyers were over kill. And that he 'discovered' he could shoot all that force lightning into the sky disrupting all the ships ... lol over kill. He didn't need 50,000 he could have taken out the whole Resistance fleet by himself

5. what you said about being in the script... come on Sorry, there are limits to the Force (dark side light side etc) these last 3 were all about making up things the Force cannot do and no Jedi/Force User ever could do

6. R2-D2 you must have no remembrence of him in any movie or novels. R2-D2 was a active hero before there was a Luke Skywalker. Your comment about R2 being a useless character is clearly you not really knowing Star Wars

7. JJ Abrams 2015 : It was a great question, and one that we talked about quite a bit, even with Carrie [Fisher]...Why did she not take advantage of this natural Force strength that this character had. And one of the answers was that it was simply a choice that she made, that her decision to run the Rebellion, and ultimately this Resistance, and consider herself a General, as opposed to a Jedi. It was simply a choice that she took.
https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Princess-Leia-Doesn-t-Use-Force-According-J-J-Abrams-98837.html

8a. Who have you heard complaining about Leia using the Force? No one lol The problem as I laid out was that as per my #7 JJ Abrams laid it out that Leia did not train in the ways of the Force. The people/person who did #8-The Last Jedi had Leia using Force telekinesis to get back into the ship. That requires serious focus training. We are not talking about lifting a rock here. But pulling yourself against the vacume of space while creating a Force bubble of h2o. So from there JJ had to now tell a different story. Fans are not complaining about her using the Force, the majority wanted that. the problem is just in the inconsistency of writing. There are also novels out that go along with TFA that deal with Leia that don't follow the path that she actually did train and almost completed her training. She was trained and skilled anough that in TROS that she was training Rey.

8b. and why not bring Yoda and Obiwan into the picture again to assist

9. It is not about living up to what was. that is a fact that they don't. BUT be consistent with the story and direction you decided to take. Which this all is a mess under a band aid called the Rise of Skywalker. She isn't even a Skywalker.

EmmaMcG said:

Palpatine killed Plagueis. Which proves Palpatine was the better of the two. Which means my point still stands. There is no greater villain in the Star Wars universe than Palpatine. Of course, they could have simply created a new villain for the final movie but the Star Wars nerds would have moaned about that even more. It makes more sense to bring Palpatine back. Obviously, they could have handled it better. At least hinted that he was behind the scenes from Force Awakens onwards. His return was very sudden. It wasn't written particularly well but that's Star Wars all over. They've all been like that.

No. They would have not. And killing someone in his sleep doesn't make one "better". It just makes him a coward. Also in the movies it never was said that Plagueis was Palpatine's master and that Palpatine killed him, that only happened in the EU. And since the EU is now legends, it indeed would have been better to make Plagueis the big bad. To have a "new" villain but him being someone we have heard about previously. As it is, they whole thing undoes the original trilogy and what was once evil and menacing (the Palpatine scenes), is now just comical (not in a good way) and cringeworthy.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Timothy Zhan created 2+ better villians or at least 2+ that showed you did not need to bring "Unlimited Power Palpatine" back... Grand Admiral Thraw, cloned Master C'Boath and the Emporers Hand Mara Jade

.

I think many fans thought 'Snoke' -waste was a cloned form of Palaptine

TROS was a band aid for 7 and 8

Yeah. Thrawn would have been great. The whole sequel trilogy should have been an adapted and updated version of the Thrawn trilogy. Way better than the rehash crap we got instead.

BombSquad said:

PatrickS77 said:

It's not being critical, it's just things that come to mind when you don't check your brain at the door. The new movies are insulting to anyone's intelligence.

to be fair, if you only demand straight logic in movies, then you should have left the cinema in anger back in 1977 when 10 minutes into the film....

"hold your fire, there's no life forms aboard"

yeah.. sure... while looking for some "non-living" plans for the death star... in a univerese full of non-living robots and droids...

[Edited 1/7/20 8:49am]

Yeah. While that was not perfect, it is still a long shot from the crap we have gotten with the sequel trilogy.

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Timothy Zhan created 2+ better villians or at least 2+ that showed you did not need to bring "Unlimited Power Palpatine" back... Grand Admiral Thraw, cloned Master C'Boath and the Emporers Hand Mara Jade

.

I think many fans thought 'Snoke' -waste was a cloned form of Palaptine

TROS was a band aid for 7 and 8

There may well have been several suitable villains from the books. But they've never been in any of the movies so the majority of people going to see the movie won't have a clue who they are so it wouldn't make sense to introduce them in the final movie in a 9 movie series and try to explain who they are. The audience wouldn't buy it. Star Wars does have a lot of die hard fanboys but they're still a minority. Palpatine is the only villain who makes sense. Episode 1-3, he appears and beats the Jedi, crowning himself Emperor in the process and proving himself to be the biggest badass in the galaxy. Episode 4-6, Luke Skywalker and his band of Rebels fight back and seemingly beat Palpatine. Episode 7-9, Palpatine returns for the final, decisive round and has more power than ever (UNLIMITED POWERRR!!!). But, through the teachings of Luke and Leia, and the influence of Anakin, Rey and Ben Solo eventually get the better of him and defeat him for good. It took 3 generations of the same family to finally beat Palpatine but they got it done in the end. Now, like I said, it should have been handled better. They left it too late to bring Palpatine back but following Episode 8, they had to work with what they had. And at that point, there was no other logical choice for the big villain. It had to be Palpatine.

I disagree, the majority are very familar with Grand Admiral Thrawn and the thrawn trilogy, So much so that he is canon in this new Universe. No one knew who the Emperor was when Empire Strikes Back came out. No one knew and it's probably still not cleared up who SNOKE was in the Force Awakes. You did not need to introduce someone that everyone would know. But Thrawn especially, and crazed clone master C'boath are very popular. Not to mention the Emperors Hand.

Many people are not buying the return of the Emperor.

Sorry not buying it. No disrespect, but you just must not be familiar with all the characters from the movies, novels and the Clone Wars and cartoon series.

Like in the Mandalorian: the threw a monkey wrench in with the Force strong 'baby yoda'. Now remember this is only 4 yrs after ROTJ. Luke, Yoda(spirit) Obiwan(spirit) would have knowledge somehow about this... Another topic. I'm enjoying it, but it's a monkey wrench for sure.

There are other Sith that we know of... Surviving trained... Asajj Ventress(trained by Darth Tyranus) and know of by Darth Sidious. I believe she was also mentioned in the movie ROTS.
She is in the Clone War animated shows and the new Disney direction also has her in a novel.

https://www.bobafettfancl...-durge.jpg

OldFriends4Sale said:

EmmaMcG said:

Palpatine was the best thing about the entire series. He's the ultimate villain. As per traditional movie/novel/videogame logic, as a series goes on, the threat must become bigger and bigger so as to stack the odds against the heroes. But where do you go after Palpatine? He's already been established as the biggest villain in the Star Wars universe so if they defeated him, no other bad guy would stand a chance. So they really had no option but to bring him back. And I thought he was great in Rise of Skywalker so I'm delighted they brought him back. Why did he bring out all those Star Destroyers? So that we could have a massive spaceship battle. No other reason. Star Wars is all about spectacle. Always has been. Of course Palpatine can pull the life essence out of Rey and Kylo. It was in the script. If the writers say he can do it then I believe he can do it. They're the ones writing the movie. We're just along for the ride. What would you have R2 D2 do? Personally I'd have killed him off in Force Awakens. Useless character. At least C3PO is good for comic relief. He wanted to tell Rey he was force sensitive, I reckon. There's rumours of a spin off TV show with Rey so I guess that show could be about her restoring the Jedi Order. I'm currently playing a new game called Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order (well, trying to play. New baby takes priority). So far it's really good and it's supposed to be canon as well. Could have implications for the future of Star Wars. They never said Leia didn't train in Force Awakens. But I remember when that movie came out reading a lot of complaints on here that she wasn't doing any Jedi stuff. And now that she's doing Jedi stuff, other people complain. No matter what they did with this new trilogy, people were going to complain because it didn't live up to the movie they had in their head.

1. Naw there are so many other villians who had depth there would have been no need to bring him back.

2. But the heroes size was minimal, so the villian did not need to stack much agains a Republic that had no army to fight anyone with. The 'Resistance' was always on the brink of being defeated. Palpatine didn't need to hide in order to get Ren on his side. 50,000 star destroyers, each with the capablity of destroying a planet... lol overkill

3. What were they going up against to stand a chance? The Republic was destroyed in the first movie with a planet-death star that destroyed 3-5 Republic planets in 1 shot. A Republic that had no military at all lol so that was nothing to stand a chance against.

4. All those star destroyers were over kill. And that he 'discovered' he could shoot all that force lightning into the sky disrupting all the ships ... lol over kill. He didn't need 50,000 he could have taken out the whole Resistance fleet by himself

5. what you said about being in the script... come on Sorry, there are limits to the Force (dark side light side etc) these last 3 were all about making up things the Force cannot do and no Jedi/Force User ever could do

6. R2-D2 you must have no remembrence of him in any movie or novels. R2-D2 was a active hero before there was a Luke Skywalker. Your comment about R2 being a useless character is clearly you not really knowing Star Wars

7. JJ Abrams 2015 : It was a great question, and one that we talked about quite a bit, even with Carrie [Fisher]...Why did she not take advantage of this natural Force strength that this character had. And one of the answers was that it was simply a choice that she made, that her decision to run the Rebellion, and ultimately this Resistance, and consider herself a General, as opposed to a Jedi. It was simply a choice that she took.
https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Princess-Leia-Doesn-t-Use-Force-According-J-J-Abrams-98837.html

8a. Who have you heard complaining about Leia using the Force? No one lol The problem as I laid out was that as per my #7 JJ Abrams laid it out that Leia did not train in the ways of the Force. The people/person who did #8-The Last Jedi had Leia using Force telekinesis to get back into the ship. That requires serious focus training. We are not talking about lifting a rock here. But pulling yourself against the vacume of space while creating a Force bubble of h2o. So from there JJ had to now tell a different story. Fans are not complaining about her using the Force, the majority wanted that. the problem is just in the inconsistency of writing. There are also novels out that go along with TFA that deal with Leia that don't follow the path that she actually did train and almost completed her training. She was trained and skilled anough that in TROS that she was training Rey.

8b. and why not bring Yoda and Obiwan into the picture again to assist

9. It is not about living up to what was. that is a fact that they don't. BUT be consistent with the story and direction you decided to take. Which this all is a mess under a band aid called the Rise of Skywalker. She isn't even a Skywalker.

Yeah. That. And those are the people liking those movies. The ones not able to recognize the inconsistency with what has come before, because they don't really have a clue. Also agree with everything else you said. The writing stinks.

[Edited 1/7/20 13:19pm]

PatrickS77 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said:

Yeah. Thrawn would have been great. The whole sequel trilogy should have been an adapted and updated version of the Thrawn trilogy. Way better than the rehash crap we got instead.

They say it in Episode 3.

No. They do not. Palpatine does talk about Plagueis, but keeps it vague as to who killed him: https://youtu.be/_q1n4kY7K8g?t=115

It could be a real legend, it could be made up to seduce Anakin or he could be talking about himself and his master. The movie leaves it open to interpretation.

[Edited 1/7/20 14:10pm]

EmmaMcG said:

And it's people like me who these movies are made for. Casual fans and children.

Right. People like you, who know shit about Star Wars and not the ones who kept it going for the past 30 years. People who don't give a shit if Jedi suddenly turn into magical superheroes, who can do anything. People who view it as a kids movie. Only people who know nothing and prefer style over substance can truly enjoy this sequel trilogy, but ideally those movies should be made for everyone (at least when it comes to being a Star Wars fan).

[Edited 1/7/20 14:18pm]