SquirrelMeat said:

EmmaMcG said:

England are just shit.

I think "shit" might be overstating it, but they are certainly mediocre. This was a world cup where they didn't have to play any of the traditionally strong teams (Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Holland, etc). England will never again have such an easy passage through a world cup. Yet they only narrowly beat Tunisia, and scraped past Colombia on penalties. In pretty much every game, they were poor in the 2nd half for some reason, despite starting most games well. Almost all of their goals came from set pieces - corners, penalties or free kicks - and their defence looked vulnerable pretty much every time any opposition got forward. The only people in the England camp who were excellent were their goalkeeper (Pickford) and manager (Southgate). The former kept them in the tournament with a series of outstanding saves, and the latter managed to create a team from a collection of young, inexperienced and average players. If they can continue to develop, then by the next word cup they may have evolved into a good team.

[Edited 7/12/18 1:26am]

Lianachan said:

EmmaMcG said:

England are just shit.

I think "shit" might be overstating it, but they are certainly mediocre. This was a world cup where they didn't have to play any of the traditionally strong teams (Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Holland, etc). England will never again have such an easy passage through a world cup. Yet they only narrowly beat Tunisia, and scraped past Colombia on penalties. In pretty much every game, they were poor in the 2nd half for some reason, despite starting most games well. Almost all of their goals came from set pieces - corners, penalties or free kicks - and their defence looked vulnerable pretty much every time any opposition got forward. The only people in the England camp who were excellent were their goalkeeper (Pickford) and manager (Southgate). The former kept them in the tournament with a series of outstanding saves, and the latter managed to create a team from a collection of young, inexperienced and average players. If they can continue to develop, then by the next word cup they may have evolved into a good team.

[Edited 7/12/18 1:26am]

This argument gets on my nerves ... what were England supposed to do, organise a friendly against Germany in between their group stage matches just to prove a point to folks back home?

Most of the traditionally strong teams weren't much cop either. Italy and Holland weren't even good enough to qualify, Germany looked horrendous, Brazil minus diver Neymar were nothing, ditto Portugal and the Argies without Ronaldo and Messi. I watched nearly all the games this tournament and taking everything in to account England were one of the best four teams there for sure ... fourth behind France, Belgium and Croatia is about right in my book.

What we were missing was a natural goal scorer, someone like a young Rooney or Owen whose a dead cert to score when given a sniff of goal. That's not Kane, Sterling or Rashford ... and we missed too many should-have-been-goals because of it.

DaveT said:

Lianachan said:

I think "shit" might be overstating it, but they are certainly mediocre. This was a world cup where they didn't have to play any of the traditionally strong teams (Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Holland, etc). England will never again have such an easy passage through a world cup. Yet they only narrowly beat Tunisia, and scraped past Colombia on penalties. In pretty much every game, they were poor in the 2nd half for some reason, despite starting most games well. Almost all of their goals came from set pieces - corners, penalties or free kicks - and their defence looked vulnerable pretty much every time any opposition got forward. The only people in the England camp who were excellent were their goalkeeper (Pickford) and manager (Southgate). The former kept them in the tournament with a series of outstanding saves, and the latter managed to create a team from a collection of young, inexperienced and average players. If they can continue to develop, then by the next word cup they may have evolved into a good team.

[Edited 7/12/18 1:26am]

This argument gets on my nerves ... what were England supposed to do, organise a friendly against Germany in between their group stage matches just to prove a point to folks back home?

Most of the traditionally strong teams weren't much cop either. Italy and Holland weren't even good enough to qualify, Germany looked horrendous, Brazil minus diver Neymar were nothing, ditto Portugal and the Argies without Ronaldo and Messi. I watched nearly all the games this tournament and taking everything in to account England were one of the best four teams there for sure ... fourth behind France, Belgium and Croatia is about right in my book.

What we were missing was a natural goal scorer, someone like a young Rooney or Owen whose a dead cert to score when given a sniff of goal. That's not Kane, Sterling or Rashford ... and we missed too many should-have-been-goals because of it.

Well, you can of course only play the opposition that's put in front of you. My point is that England were lucky that they didn't meet any particularly good opposition as they progressed - this was their best chance of winning for a long time, despite probably being actually their poorest team for ages, too.

Anyway..... I think France will beat Croatia in the final.

But then, I thought Belgium would beat France and that England would beat Croatia, so what do I know.

Lianachan said:

EmmaMcG said:

Lianachan said:

I think "shit" might be overstating it, but they are certainly mediocre. This was a world cup where they didn't have to play any of the traditionally strong teams (Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Holland, etc). England will never again have such an easy passage through a world cup. Yet they only narrowly beat Tunisia, and scraped past Colombia on penalties. In pretty much every game, they were poor in the 2nd half for some reason, despite starting most games well. Almost all of their goals came from set pieces - corners, penalties or free kicks - and their defence looked vulnerable pretty much every time any opposition got forward. The only people in the England camp who were excellent were their goalkeeper (Pickford) and manager (Southgate). The former kept them in the tournament with a series of outstanding saves, and the latter managed to create a team from a collection of young, inexperienced and average players. If they can continue to develop, then by the next word cup they may have evolved into a good team.

[Edited 7/12/18 1:26am]

"Shit" might be a bit strong a word but they were definitely poor. Their team ranges from well below average to just slightly above average, with Sir Harry Kane being the only player in the team who would be considered to be "good". But that's all he is. He's not in the same category as the likes of Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo etc as the English media would like to think he is. So England won't be troubling the world's best in future world cups unless they're handed an even easier draw, which is unlikely. This was their best chance and they couldn't even get past Croatia, another average team. BUT, taking everything into consideration, England did still get to a semi final and they can at least say that they are the second best of the average teams, so that's some consolation. And with any luck, the English media won't be so quick to hype up their average team next time so that if they end up getting to the knockout stages or even a quarter final, it will be seen as a genuine achievement rather than a big failure. Because on Sky Sports news last night, they were behaving as if all their pets had been killed. They were sitting there in their waistcoats nearly crying. As Roy Keane said, it was a reality check they so sorely needed. Hopefully they'll learn from it.

Roy Keane was outstanding, unusual to hear that kind of perception in their coverage. The media started off not too badly in terms of the rampant jingosim, hopelessly unrealistic expectations and outright xenophobia - but as the tournament progressed they soon got back into their old ways.

ETA: bonus points for "in their waistcoats"!

[Edited 7/12/18 3:20am]

Lianachan said:

Anyway..... I think France will beat Croatia in the final.

But then, I thought Belgium would beat France and that England would beat Croatia, so what do I know.

Sadly you might be right, but I hope Croatia win it as I love the heart they've shown so far ... and I can't stand Mbeppe who everyone is already w*nking over as the next Ronaldo ... he's a snidey little diver and time waster. He got rightly booked for the latter against Belgium, and should have been shown a red for his blatant play-acting against Uruguay.

With you on Roy Keane to, loved him as a player and like him even more as a pundit. The voice of reason in the studio (though I do love Ian Wright's undying enthusiasm and passion, god bless him!) ... did you see that heated exchange he had with Wright about getting ahead of themselves and thinking they were already in the final? So funny!

DaveT said:

Lianachan said:

Anyway..... I think France will beat Croatia in the final.

But then, I thought Belgium would beat France and that England would beat Croatia, so what do I know.

Sadly you might be right, but I hope Croatia win it as I love the heart they've shown so far ... and I can't stand Mbeppe who everyone is already w*nking over as the next Ronaldo ... he's a snidey little diver and time waster. He got rightly booked for the latter against Belgium, and should have been shown a red for his blatant play-acting against Uruguay.

With you on Roy Keane to, loved him as a player and like him even more as a pundit. The voice of reason in the studio (though I do love Ian Wright's undying enthusiasm and passion, god bless him!) ... did you see that heated exchange he had with Wright about getting ahead of themselves and thinking they were already in the final? So funny!

Yup, always liked Keane too. Enjoyed his exchange with Wright, who spends far too much time like an excited puppy for my tastes.

I'll be supporting France. As much as I like Croatia, as underdogs and a small country with a troubled history, I have the Auld Alliance to consider!

DaveT said:

Lianachan said:

Anyway..... I think France will beat Croatia in the final.

But then, I thought Belgium would beat France and that England would beat Croatia, so what do I know.

Sadly you might be right, but I hope Croatia win it as I love the heart they've shown so far ... and I can't stand Mbeppe who everyone is already w*nking over as the next Ronaldo ... he's a snidey little diver and time waster. He got rightly booked for the latter against Belgium, and should have been shown a red for his blatant play-acting against Uruguay.

With you on Roy Keane to, loved him as a player and like him even more as a pundit. The voice of reason in the studio (though I do love Ian Wright's undying enthusiasm and passion, god bless him!) ... did you see that heated exchange he had with Wright about getting ahead of themselves and thinking they were already in the final? So funny!

Sounds like I have a new target to use my favorite term on.

Mbeppe is a diving ponce!

(Hat tip to Lianachan.)

come on France...

I'm rooting for Croatia but in the semis, France looked stronger than anyone I've seen. Of course, I am NO expert, LOL.

Two fluky goals for France at the half, vs. one beautiful goal for Croatia. I fully expect Croatia to score again and then after that?

Can't wait!

EmmaMcG said:

Good win for France but there was never any doubt that they would win. So that's it for the World Cup. Club football is of no interest to me so I am now waiting for Euro 2020, which will hopefully feature Ireland. Given that UEFA have expanded the tournament to include more teams, therefore making it easier to qualify for, we should make it if we don't get a tough qualifying group. Although you also have to account for Ireland being pretty bad so who knows.

France got very lucky ... first goal was a dive, second goal wasn't a deliberate handball. This ruined the final for me, and when you consider this was the first final with VAR you have to wonder how this happened. Disappointing end to an otherwise fantastic tournament.

No interest in club footie anymore either, so I'll see ya for 2020!

Well that turned out OK. I had a tenner of France to beat Croatia in the final (placed a month out). Thats the summer holiday paid for.

Costa Del Wales. Here I come!

SquirrelMeat said:

Well that turned out OK. I had a tenner of France to beat Croatia in the final (placed a month out). Thats the summer holiday paid for.

Costa Del Wales. Here I come!

Well played!