purplefam99 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

The note that Spade left bothers me. It reads like I love you daughter but go ask your father why I killed myself. At least that is how I interpret it?

Yes reads that way to me too. Or I took it that way. And he was home. Feel like she wanted him to find her.

They were not living together. He lived in a apartment blocks away. He was home there.

poppys said:

PennyPurple said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

My uncle was tied up in mob culture. He would show up at house with truckloads of merch, beer, booze, etc and we always turned him away. He killed himself because others wanted him dead. He blew his head off and me and my aunt found him in his truck. I was seven.

My cousin he killed himself to inflict pain, he hated a lot of people and he was tied up in drugs and got into a twisted relationship. He inflicted pain on his first real gf.

My friend he inflicted pain, arguing with gf on phone pulled out a gun and shot himself.

My best friend, he was high but wife cheated him and he jumped in the road. He inflicted pain, he didn't want to face wife leaving but he should have celebrated it. I know I would have.

I think the majority are escaping shit and to a degree wanting to inflict pain. Of course, I think some want out because they are old and in pain or just state of not being able to live. I have more and understanding for them, even like Wendy O Williams she thought it out for years and it wasn't a split decision or to inflict pain or anything. I agree some just are done but often at least from what I see that is not the case. And part of me has to believe that they must know or not think about the pain it inflicts.

My Grandma shot herself when she was 62. She was lonely and her kids and grandkids lived 200 miles away. Grandpa was a bear to live with. And she had tried many times before. My dad walked in 1 time and she had her head inside the gas oven...but she succeeded this time.

My step brother shot himself. He tied a string to the rifle and to his toe, had the rifle in his mouth and pulled the string with his toe.

My other step brother got into a fight with his girlfriend, she went running out of the house and he fired a shot at her, and thankfully missed. The cops came and he was holed up inside, stand off for hours, what they didn't know was when the girlfriend was running outside, the next shot was to his head.

The pain they leave us survivors in, is unbearable at times.

That's a lot, Penny. Saw a piece this morning on how a suicide is prone to others in the family also taking that route. They described it as a fly in the back of their mind that presents as a possibility.

Beyond all the studies, I think suicide is very much more a part of life than usually discussed. And I still feel that it is a birthright. Maybe not a "good" one, but a birthright nonetheless. We do not have that control over another person's life. We cannot judge that, and we shouldn't.

purplefam99 said:

poppys said:

They were not living together. He lived in a apartment blocks away. He was home there.

So the initial report was incorrect when they said mr spader Was at home. They meant “his other home”. That is confusing!!

Do a little more reading than the initial reports. Especially if you are going to comment on him being in the apt she died in, he wasn't.

[Edited 6/9/18 14:31pm]

poppys said:

poppys said:

poppys said:

poppys said:

PennyPurple said:

My Grandma shot herself when she was 62. She was lonely and her kids and grandkids lived 200 miles away. Grandpa was a bear to live with. And she had tried many times before. My dad walked in 1 time and she had her head inside the gas oven...but she succeeded this time.

My step brother shot himself. He tied a string to the rifle and to his toe, had the rifle in his mouth and pulled the string with his toe.

My other step brother got into a fight with his girlfriend, she went running out of the house and he fired a shot at her, and thankfully missed. The cops came and he was holed up inside, stand off for hours, what they didn't know was when the girlfriend was running outside, the next shot was to his head.

The pain they leave us survivors in, is unbearable at times.

That's a lot, Penny. Saw a piece this morning on how a suicide is prone to others in the family also taking that route. They described it as a fly in the back of their mind that presents as a possibility.

Beyond all the studies, I think suicide is very much more a part of life than usually discussed. And I still feel that it is a birthright. Maybe not a "good" one, but a birthright nonetheless. We do not have that control over another person's life. We cannot judge that, and we shouldn't.

I think they are right, it is prone to others in the family...If my grandma did it, so can I, attitude. I'm worried about all of us at some point and time thinking that.

Back in 1982 when my grandma died, it was and really still is a 'secret' that nobody talks about. My mom and Aunts act like it's a shameful thing. My generation see's it differently, I'm not afraid to talk about it, or think it's shameful.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

PennyPurple said:

poppys said:

That's a lot, Penny. Saw a piece this morning on how a suicide is prone to others in the family also taking that route. They described it as a fly in the back of their mind that presents as a possibility.

Beyond all the studies, I think suicide is very much more a part of life than usually discussed. And I still feel that it is a birthright. Maybe not a "good" one, but a birthright nonetheless. We do not have that control over another person's life. We cannot judge that, and we shouldn't.

I think they are right, it is prone to others in the family...If my grandma did it, so can I, attitude. I'm worried about all of us at some point and time thinking that.

Back in 1982 when my grandma died, it was and really still is a 'secret' that nobody talks about. My mom and Aunts act like it's a shameful thing. My generation see's it differently, I'm not afraid to talk about it, or think it's shameful.

We are one here. Tough road, ginger girl. Probably in everyone's DNA, some more than others - fight or flight.

poppys said:

PennyPurple said:

I think they are right, it is prone to others in the family...If my grandma did it, so can I, attitude. I'm worried about all of us at some point and time thinking that.

Back in 1982 when my grandma died, it was and really still is a 'secret' that nobody talks about. My mom and Aunts act like it's a shameful thing. My generation see's it differently, I'm not afraid to talk about it, or think it's shameful.

We are one here. Tough road, ginger girl. Probably in everyone's DNA, some more than others - fight or flight.

purplefam99 said:

poppys said:

Do a little more reading than the initial reports. Especially if you are going to comment on him being in the apt she died in, he wasn't.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Turns out it's pretty unclear, at least on the June 5 stories.

Here is the link you orgnoted me purplefam -

https://www.google.com/am...018-06-05/

Her husband and business partner Andy Spade was in the apartment at the time, police said at an afternoon news conference.

TMZ Update from 6/5

12:30 PM PT -- Our law enforcement sources confirm Kate's husband, Andy was home at the time she died.


People Magazine - 6/6 Quotes from Andy, her husband.

“For the past 10 months we had been living separately, but within a few blocks of each other. Bea was living with both of us and we saw each other or spoke every day. We ate many meals together as a family and continued to vacation together as a family. Our daughter was our priority,” he said.

“Kate suffered from depression and anxiety for many years. She was actively seeking help and working closely with her doctors to treat her disease, one that takes far too many lives. We were in touch with her the night before and she sounded happy,” Andy said. “There was no indication and no warning that she would do this. It was a complete shock. And it clearly wasn’t her. There were personal demons she was battling.”

“We were not legally separated, and never even discussed divorce. We were best friends trying to work through our problems in the best way we knew how. We were together for 35 years. We loved each other very much and simply needed a break,” Andy continued.


This says the reports of him being there were wrong. 6/6

http://popculture.com/celebrity/2018/06/06/kate-spade-alone-apartment-killed-herself/

Designer Kate Spade was reportedly alone in her New York City apartment Tuesday morning when she died of an apparent suicide, contradicting earlier reports that her husband was home at the time.


Murky huh?

[Edited 6/10/18 8:20am]

Kate Spade was born and raised in Kansas City. The Kansas City Star reached out to her sister and this is what the sister said.

"I'd come so VERY close to getting her to go in for treatment (to the same place Catherine Zeta-Jones went for her successful bipolar treatment program). I'd spoken with them on the phone (not telling them exactly who the patient would be). They agreed to fly in and talk with her and take her with them to the treatment center.

"She was all set to go — but then chickened out by morning. I even said I (would) go with her and be a 'patient' too (she liked that idea) I said we could talk about it all — our childhood, etc. That I could help her fill in any blanks she might have.

"That seemed to make her more comfortable, and we'd get sooo close to packing her bags, but — in the end, the 'image' of her brand (happy-go-lucky Kate Spade) was more important for her to keep up. She was definitely worried about what people would say if they found out."

Spade's husband and business partner, Andy Spade, assisted in trying to coax her into treatment, making plans on how it would work and who would take care of their daughter, Frances Beatrix, known as Bea, Saffo said. "Nothing ever came of it."

"After numerous attempts, I finally let go," Saffo wrote. "Sometimes you simply cannot SAVE people from themselves! One of the last things she said to me was, 'Reta, I know you hate funerals and don't attend them, but for me would you PLEASE come to MINE, at least. Please!' I know she perhaps had a plan, but she insisted she did not."

Graycap23 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Some but I would believe that is super rare. Majority do not want to face consequences and sometimes in Spades or Bourdains case it is trivial. Breakup suicides.

It doesnt matter what the reason is. What matters is that they have had enough of this b.s. Earth and decided to leave.

LOL! Well, I would say many are facing prison time or scrutiny. Like someone will out them. Much different mindset than someone that just got bored with life and or just wanted out.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Graycap23 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said: It doesnt matter what the reason is. What matters is that they have had enough of this b.s. Earth and decided to leave.

LOL! Well, I would say many are facing prison time or scrutiny. Like someone will out them. Much different mindset than someone that just got bored with life and or just wanted out.

Okay, enough of this speculative bullshit. I've lived with depression my entire life. Tired of the speculative nature of depression by the common herd. Clinical depression is manageable and liveable. For some, it can become too overwhelming. But for most people who live with it, we don't go around shooting up establishments, killing ourselves, or taking out other people in some massive murder/self-destroying escapade. Just stop. Fed up with the social stigmatism about depression and other things people have to deal with. We all ain't crazy. No wonder people are still "under ground."

purplethunder3121 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

LOL! Well, I would say many are facing prison time or scrutiny. Like someone will out them. Much different mindset than someone that just got bored with life and or just wanted out.

Okay, enough of this speculative bullshit. I've lived with depression my entire life. Tired of the speculative nature of depression by the common herd. Clinical depression is manageable and liveable. For some, it can become too overwhelming. But for most people who live with it, we don't go around shooting up establishments, killing ourselves, or taking out other people in some massive murder/self-destroying escapade. Just stop. Fed up with the social stigmatism about depression and other things people have to deal with. We all ain't crazy. No wonder people are still "under ground."

Truth. Well said and thank you very much.

poppys said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Okay, enough of this speculative bullshit. I've lived with depression my entire life. Tired of the speculative nature of depression by the common herd. Clinical depression is manageable and liveable. For some, it can become too overwhelming. But for most people who live with it, we don't go around shooting up establishments, killing ourselves, or taking out other people in some massive murder/self-destroying escapade. Just stop. Fed up with the social stigmatism about depression and other things people have to deal with. We all ain't crazy. No wonder people are still "under ground."

Truth. Well said and thank you very much.

...

[Edited 6/12/18 10:40am]

purplethunder3121 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

LOL! Well, I would say many are facing prison time or scrutiny. Like someone will out them. Much different mindset than someone that just got bored with life and or just wanted out.

Okay, enough of this speculative bullshit. I've lived with depression my entire life. Tired of the speculative nature of depression by the common herd. Clinical depression is manageable and liveable. For some, it can become too overwhelming. But for most people who live with it, we don't go around shooting up establishments, killing ourselves, or taking out other people in some massive murder/self-destroying escapade. Just stop. Fed up with the social stigmatism about depression and other things people have to deal with. We all ain't crazy. No wonder people are still "under ground."

I have nothing against people with depression. I do have problems with gray thinking that suicide is a brave thing to do and cheering on people that commit suicide.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Okay, enough of this speculative bullshit. I've lived with depression my entire life. Tired of the speculative nature of depression by the common herd. Clinical depression is manageable and liveable. For some, it can become too overwhelming. But for most people who live with it, we don't go around shooting up establishments, killing ourselves, or taking out other people in some massive murder/self-destroying escapade. Just stop. Fed up with the social stigmatism about depression and other things people have to deal with. We all ain't crazy. No wonder people are still "under ground."

I have nothing against people with depression. I do have problems with gray thinking that suicide is a brave thing to do and cheering on people that commit suicide.

Where the fuck did u see me cheering on suicide. U are a fucking clown.

Graycap23 said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I have nothing against people with depression. I do have problems with gray thinking that suicide is a brave thing to do and cheering on people that commit suicide.

Where the fuck did u see me cheering on suicide. U are a fucking clown.

You stated this..

"I think taking life into your own hands is brave as hell.

If u are bored by this thing we call life.....suicide is a very real option.

No more drama."

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Graycap23 said:

Where the fuck did u see me cheering on suicide. U are a fucking clown.

You stated this..

"I think taking life into your own hands is brave as hell.

If u are bored by this thing we call life.....suicide is a very real option.

No more drama."

And where in that statement does Gray say he was "cheering on people who commit suicide"?

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Graycap23 said:

Where the fuck did u see me cheering on suicide. U are a fucking clown.

You stated this..

"I think taking life into your own hands is brave as hell.

If u are bored by this thing we call life.....suicide is a very real option.

No more drama."

I kinda agree with Furry on this.

It reads as if Graycap is saying suicide is ok and there is nothing wrong with it. If u are bored by this thing we call life....suicide is a very real option.

I will have to leave general discussion because psychic attacks on me are taking place. I don't know where they are coming from?

PennyPurple said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

You stated this..

"I think taking life into your own hands is brave as hell.

If u are bored by this thing we call life.....suicide is a very real option.

No more drama."

I kinda agree with Furry on this.

It reads as if Graycap is saying suicide is ok and there is nothing wrong with it. If u are bored by this thing we call life....suicide is a very real option.

I understand the very literal part of using the words bored and very real option. But to me that is more Gray's style than him being a cheerleader or saying it's ok and there's nothing wrong wth it.

Is everyone who commits suicide wrong? Personally, I can't answer that. It really is their life. That does not mean I am for suicide. I am not. But I am also not religious and don't consider it a sin either.

[Edited 6/11/18 7:37am]

PennyPurple said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I will have to leave general discussion because psychic attacks on me are taking place. I don't know where they are coming from?

According to one story I read, Kate was 55 and had been dealing with depression for 5 years - and anxiety before that. She was "working closely with her doctors to treat her disease." Her disease? Kate Spade didn't have a "disease" - and therein lies the problem. She had menopause.

Did you know that more women commit suicide between the ages of 45 and 64 than at any other time? And that - not coincidentally - more of them get divorced then, too? Hmmm...let's see...what happens to women between 45 and 64? Oh, yeah - menopause.

Do you know what it feels like when your estrogen level tanks? If you're like me, you feel like you're going to splinter into a million pieces. You have (probably) two hot flashes an hour - day and night. Hot flashes that are preceded by horrible panic attacks and make you feel like you want to rip your own face off. You feel like you might dissolve into tears any second - but you can't because you have a meeting at 2:00 and if you appear crazy, you might lose your job. You can't talk to anyone about how you're feeling because they're all tired of hearing you complain about your hormonal "situation." So you start counting how many Ambiens are in the bottle and fantasizing about driving into the path of a semi because you just can't imagine going on this way for the next 20 years (which is how long it took your grandmother's hot flashes to go away).

I thank my lucky stars every day that I already had an integrative medicine doctor who was able to help me thread this fucking needle. A woman doctor who was willing to prescribe bio-identical progesterone and estrogen and work with me until we got the dosing right - for (let's see...how long has it been now?) eight years. Who knew that an anti-depressant might be helpful to get me out of the pit I was in at that moment, but was not a cure.

And the health crisis will not end when menopausal women "get over it." I just had an appointment with my doctor yesterday. She told me that people ask her when she's going to stop taking hormones. She said, "I tell them I'll stop taking them the day after I decide I'm okay with dying of a heart attack or slipping into dementia." Amen, sister. A-fucking-men. Because that is the future for a lot of women who decide it's better to "go natural" and martyr through the physical and emotional torment. "It's just a few years. I'll be fine." Except that your brain is frying along with the rest of you - and losing your train of thought or forgetting what you went into the next room to get ain't even the half of it.

If only Kate had found a doctor who knew that.

Genesia said:

According to one story I read, Kate was 55 and had been dealing with depression for 5 years - and anxiety before that. She was "working closely with her doctors to treat her disease." Her disease? Kate Spade didn't have a "disease" - and therein lies the problem. She had menopause.

Did you know that more women commit suicide between the ages of 45 and 64 than at any other time? And that - not coincidentally - more of them get divorced then, too? Hmmm...let's see...what happens to women between 45 and 64? Oh, yeah - menopause.

Do you know what it feels like when your estrogen level tanks? If you're like me, you feel like you're going to splinter into a million pieces. You have (probably) two hot flashes an hour - day and night. Hot flashes that are preceded by horrible panic attacks and make you feel like you want to rip your own face off. You feel like you might dissolve into tears any second - but you can't because you have a meeting at 2:00 and if you appear crazy, you might lose your job. You can't talk to anyone about how you're feeling because they're all tired of hearing you complain about your hormonal "situation." So you start counting how many Ambiens are in the bottle and fantasizing about driving into the path of a semi because you just can't imagine going on this way for the next 20 years (which is how long it took your grandmother's hot flashes to go away).

I thank my lucky stars every day that I already had an integrative medicine doctor who was able to help me thread this fucking needle. A woman doctor who was willing to prescribe bio-identical progesterone and estrogen and work with me until we got the dosing right - for (let's see...how long has it been now?) eight years. Who knew that an anti-depressant might be helpful to get me out of the pit I was in at that moment, but was not a cure.

And the health crisis will not end when menopausal women "get over it." I just had an appointment with my doctor yesterday. She told me that people ask her when she's going to stop taking hormones. She said, "I tell them I'll stop taking them the day after I decide I'm okay with dying of a heart attack or slipping into dementia." Amen, sister. A-fucking-men. Because that is the future for a lot of women who decide it's better to "go natural" and martyr through the physical and emotional torment. "It's just a few years. I'll be fine." Except that your brain is frying along with the rest of you - and losing your train of thought or forgetting what you went into the next room to get ain't even the half of it.

If only Kate had found a doctor who knew that.

post partum and menopause. What women go thru in order to be the font of life. It is not something

that one can "get over" i agree.

purplefam99 said:

Genesia said:

According to one story I read, Kate was 55 and had been dealing with depression for 5 years - and anxiety before that. She was "working closely with her doctors to treat her disease." Her disease? Kate Spade didn't have a "disease" - and therein lies the problem. She had menopause.

Did you know that more women commit suicide between the ages of 45 and 64 than at any other time? And that - not coincidentally - more of them get divorced then, too? Hmmm...let's see...what happens to women between 45 and 64? Oh, yeah - menopause.

Do you know what it feels like when your estrogen level tanks? If you're like me, you feel like you're going to splinter into a million pieces. You have (probably) two hot flashes an hour - day and night. Hot flashes that are preceded by horrible panic attacks and make you feel like you want to rip your own face off. You feel like you might dissolve into tears any second - but you can't because you have a meeting at 2:00 and if you appear crazy, you might lose your job. You can't talk to anyone about how you're feeling because they're all tired of hearing you complain about your hormonal "situation." So you start counting how many Ambiens are in the bottle and fantasizing about driving into the path of a semi because you just can't imagine going on this way for the next 20 years (which is how long it took your grandmother's hot flashes to go away).

I thank my lucky stars every day that I already had an integrative medicine doctor who was able to help me thread this fucking needle. A woman doctor who was willing to prescribe bio-identical progesterone and estrogen and work with me until we got the dosing right - for (let's see...how long has it been now?) eight years. Who knew that an anti-depressant might be helpful to get me out of the pit I was in at that moment, but was not a cure.

And the health crisis will not end when menopausal women "get over it." I just had an appointment with my doctor yesterday. She told me that people ask her when she's going to stop taking hormones. She said, "I tell them I'll stop taking them the day after I decide I'm okay with dying of a heart attack or slipping into dementia." Amen, sister. A-fucking-men. Because that is the future for a lot of women who decide it's better to "go natural" and martyr through the physical and emotional torment. "It's just a few years. I'll be fine." Except that your brain is frying along with the rest of you - and losing your train of thought or forgetting what you went into the next room to get ain't even the half of it.

If only Kate had found a doctor who knew that.

post partum and menopause. What women go thru in order to be the font of life. It is not something

that one can "get over" i agree.

Post partum depression is also real and terrifying. In some ways, (I imagine) it's even worse than menopausal depression. Because while no one is really surprised if a woman has trouble during menopause (they just don't realize it can last a decade or two), everyone expects a new mother to be over-the-moon happy about her little bundle of joy. If she isn't, she's a bad mother.

What people have to understand is that the women who suffer with either of these are in deep, deep trouble - and it isn't their fault. No one who understands would wish feeling like this on their worst enemy.

Looks like she'll be buried here in Kansas City.

Katherine Noel Brosnahan KATE SPADE Katherine Noel Brosnahan, 55, passed away June 5, 2018 at her home in New York City. Mass of Christian Burial will be held at 3:00 p.m., Thursday, June 21, 2018 at Our Lady of Perpetual Help Redemptorist Catholic Church, 3333 Broadway, Kansas City, Missouri 64111. In lieu of flowers, kindly direct donations to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA) or to Wayside Waifs, Kansas City's largest no-kill animal shelter and pet adoption campus. Katy was born in Kansas City, Missouri. She attended Notre Dame de Sion grade school and graduated from St. Teresa's Academy in 1980. She went on to attend the University of Kansas and graduated from the Arizona State University School of Journalism in 1986. After graduation, she moved to New York where she found employment at Mademoiselle Magazine as an assistant fashion accessories editor, eventually working her way up to Senior Fashion Editor. In 1993, identifying an unexploited market niche, her creative talent and inspiration resulted in the founding of her first company, introducing the world to Kate Spade. In 1996, she received the Rising Talent award from the Council of Fashion Designers of America (CFDA). Katy then received the CFDA Accessories Designer of the Year in 1998. In 1999, Neiman Marcus became an influential partner and investor in the burgeoning Kate Spade enterprise, accelerating its growth and expansion. In 2007, Kate Spade was acquired by Liz Claiborne, boosting national and international growth and prominence of the Kate Spade brand and product lines. Katy left the business following the sale. In 2012 Liz Claiborne became known as Fifth & Pacific which was later changed to Kate Spade & Company in 2014. The brand was then acquired by Coach in 2017 where it remains today. In 2016 she and two of the original partners from Kate Spade launched a new brand and venture, Frances Valentine, named after her daughter. To most of the world, she was Kate Spade, the beautiful embodiment of her brand and a glamorous cultural icon. Everyone knows of her global fame as a fashion designer responsible for the wildly popular and successful products that still capture the hearts and fancies of women everywhere. Many women today recount their first experiences with the Kate Spade brand and the inspiration they drew from its namesake. However, there was so much more to Katy and her life. Those who knew her personally can share stories of a phenomenally loving, giving, humble, warm and affectionate woman who tragically left this world far too soon. Katy's determination was matched only by her generosity. Loyal almost to a fault, Katy could be counted on to support her friends and family in times of trouble without question or judgment. Her sense of humor was one of her most enduring and charming qualities. Her quick and infectious laugh still resonates in the minds of all who knew her. Katy was always perceptive. She always aspired to put the best interests of others ahead of her own. Katy will always be remembered lovingly for her conscientiousness and empathy. She loved animals. She was a devoted wife, mother, daughter and sister. Katy was kind beyond words to describe. She will be dearly missed by those who knew her and by the millions she inspired. Katy was preceded in death by her mother, June Mullen Brosnahan in 2010. She is survived by her husband, Andrew Spade; her daughter Frances Beatrix Spade; her father, Frank Brosnahan and his wife, Sandy Palmer Brosnahan; four sisters, Michele Brosnahan, Ann Brosnahan DiVita (Nicholas), Reta Brosnahan Saffo (Karl), Eve Brosnahan (Kent); a brother, Earl Brosnahan, III (Carol); seven nieces and nephews, as well as her mother-in-law Judith Todd and two brothers-in-law Brian and David. Online condolences may be left at www.mcgilleystatelinechapel.com. (Arrgs: McGilley State Line Chapel, 816-942-6180)

Published in Kansas City Star on June 17, 2018

Listen to Obituary

[Edited 6/17/18 7:41am]

[Edited 6/17/18 7:42am]