A Dark Knight: Mandatory Brunch Meeting

Wow Firefly,Penguin,Scarecrow,Mr. Freeze, and Joker all seated at a table. I was thinking Legion of doom when Joker said Legion of Horribles

Loved his game show, did not guess his riddle, thought it was Time but it was ton

Interesting relationship they have........Can't say I love you

Wow loving Joker. Think he is my favorite actor to play the role (love Mark Hamil's voice in the cartoon) Would love to see him in the Justice League movie.

Joker has a twin Brother, that should makes things interesting

Echo, she's a bad ass

Once again LOVE the Scarecrows outfit, better than in the movies

Wow even Grundy is joining the Legion of Horribles

Yes Emma, Harvey needs to come back

Wonder if they will ever show up

With all these Villians season 5 (hope there is one) will need to have Bruce grown up and being the Batman. Also Gordon needs to get married and have a daughter.

kpowers said:

I loved this episode,there was so much going on, as well as being mindful that Ivy and Barbara were not present. I got the riddle, mainly because it's a joke my kids tell. I didn't see Lee and Riddler getting together though - loved that. I wonder if the guise of Batman, or for this season being in his black masked outfit, will allow Bruce to become involved even when Jim explicitly told him not too?

kpowers said:

I'm really starting to doubt that Jerome is the Joker. In fact I'm sure he isn't. His twin, on the other hand, seems like a likely candidate. I have a feeling that Jeremiah will come into contact with that toxin and it will turn him into the Joker (bleached skin, huge grin etc) and he'll kill Jerome. When Jerome first came into the show he acted like a cross between Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger but for the last 2 seasons he's dropped the Jack part and seems to be channeling Heath Ledger more. My guess is that when his brother becomes the actual Joker he'll be more like the classic Jack Nicholson version. That way they can placate fans of both versions of the character. Oh, and here's a bonus prediction. Echo will be Harley Quinn. She even dressed in the same colours.


I didn't like how Lee beat The Riddler. Why should we, as an audience, take him serious as a threat to Batman when Lee can beat him at his own game?

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

A Dark Knight: Mandatory Brunch Meeting

Wow Firefly,Penguin,Scarecrow,Mr. Freeze, and Joker all seated at a table. I was thinking Legion of doom when Joker said Legion of Horribles

Loved his game show, did not guess his riddle, thought it was Time but it was ton

Interesting relationship they have........Can't say I love you

Wow loving Joker. Think he is my favorite actor to play the role (love Mark Hamil's voice in the cartoon) Would love to see him in the Justice League movie.

Joker has a twin Brother, that should makes things interesting

Echo, she's a bad ass

Once again LOVE the Scarecrows outfit, better than in the movies

Wow even Grundy is joining the Legion of Horribles

Yes Emma, Harvey needs to come back

Wonder if they will ever show up

With all these Villians season 5 (hope there is one) will need to have Bruce grown up and being the Batman. Also Gordon needs to get married and have a daughter.

I'm really starting to doubt that Jerome is the Joker. In fact I'm sure he isn't. His twin, on the other hand, seems like a likely candidate. I have a feeling that Jeremiah will come into contact with that toxin and it will turn him into the Joker (bleached skin, huge grin etc) and he'll kill Jerome. When Jerome first came into the show he acted like a cross between Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger but for the last 2 seasons he's dropped the Jack part and seems to be channeling Heath Ledger more. My guess is that when his brother becomes the actual Joker he'll be more like the classic Jack Nicholson version. That way they can placate fans of both versions of the character. Oh, and here's a bonus prediction. Echo will be Harley Quinn. She even dressed in the same colours. I didn't like how Lee beat The Riddler. Why should we, as an audience, take him serious as a threat to Batman when Lee can beat him at his own game?

Wow you really made me think. Yeah I can see Echo as Harley Quinn. I'm OK with Jeremiah as the Joker because I like the actor who plays him. I still think he is better than Nicholson and Ledger. Regarding the Riddler, hey pretty woman have been distracting men since the dawn of time.

maplenpg said:

kpowers said:

A Dark Knight: Mandatory Brunch Meeting

Wow Firefly,Penguin,Scarecrow,Mr. Freeze, and Joker all seated at a table. I was thinking Legion of doom when Joker said Legion of Horribles

Loved his game show, did not guess his riddle, thought it was Time but it was ton

Interesting relationship they have........Can't say I love you

Wow loving Joker. Think he is my favorite actor to play the role (love Mark Hamil's voice in the cartoon) Would love to see him in the Justice League movie.

Joker has a twin Brother, that should makes things interesting

Echo, she's a bad ass

Once again LOVE the Scarecrows outfit, better than in the movies

Wow even Grundy is joining the Legion of Horribles

Yes Emma, Harvey needs to come back

Wonder if they will ever show up

With all these Villians season 5 (hope there is one) will need to have Bruce grown up and being the Batman. Also Gordon needs to get married and have a daughter.

I loved this episode,there was so much going on, as well as being mindful that Ivy and Barbara were not present. I got the riddle, mainly because it's a joke my kids tell. I didn't see Lee and Riddler getting together though - loved that. I wonder if the guise of Batman, or for this season being in his black masked outfit, will allow Bruce to become involved even when Jim explicitly told him not too?

Welcome, love to hear more from Gotham fans. Yes both Emma and I felt hiring a new actress for poison ivy through the show off for a while. Barbara has her moments, teaming up with Ra's should be interesting.

kpowers said:

I think he may play the role differently when he fully transforms into the Joker so you may want to hold off on making that claim that he's better than Jack.

I suppose Lee did look well on this episode. A lot better than she did when she had that weird hair style the previous few weeks. But still, surely The Riddler is better than that. If he didn't want to say "I love you" then he could have worded it like "the correct answer is the phrase 'I love you'".

maplenpg said:

I'm guessing that Bruce will bring back the prototype Batsuit exactly for that purpose. To get involved in this, and other cases against Jim's wishes.

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

Wow you really made me think. Yeah I can see Echo as Harley Quinn. I'm OK with Jeremiah as the Joker because I like the actor who plays him. I still think he is better than Nicholson and Ledger. Regarding the Riddler, hey pretty woman have been distracting men since the dawn of time.

I think he may play the role differently when he fully transforms into the Joker so you may want to hold off on making that claim that he's better than Jack. I suppose Lee did look well on this episode. A lot better than she did when she had that weird hair style the previous few weeks. But still, surely The Riddler is better than that. If he didn't want to say "I love you" then he could have worded it like "the correct answer is the phrase 'I love you'".

Well then I hope your wrong and Jerome is the Joker

kpowers said:

FWIW - I think Emma is right, that Jeremiah will turn out to be the truly evil one. Whether he is the real joker or jerome i don't know. There was a definite sense that Jeremiah was hiding not just from Jerome but from himself in the last episode and he certainly has the intellect to be very bad indeed.

maplenpg said:

kpowers said:

Well then I hope your wrong and Jerome is the Joker

FWIW - I think Emma is right, that Jeremiah will turn out to be the truly evil one. Whether he is the real joker or jerome i don't know. There was a definite sense that Jeremiah was hiding not just from Jerome but from himself in the last episode and he certainly has the intellect to be very bad indeed.

Yeah, she usually is.

Hey guys honestly I don't remember this scene with Mad Hatter standing behind Echo. I remember (the maze scenes) Echo being by herself and Gordon saying she's under Mad Hatters control. The maze scenes with Mad Hatter I remember him with Scarecrow. Maybe a deleted scene?

kpowers said:

Yeah, I don’t remember that either. It must be a deleted scene or a publicity shot. I still think she's going to be Harley Quinn, or at least the inspiration for Harley Quinn, once Jeremiah becomes the Joker. Check out that outfit. I'm getting some serious Harley vibes from it.

Found this article

Did 'Gotham' Just Introduce Harley Quinn?

A big deal has been made about Gotham introducing the actual Jo...his season, but the Batman prequel series may have just flown under the radar and debuted the first look at the Clown Prince's long time love interest.

WARNING: Major Spoilers for the latest episode of Gotham are ahead! Continue reading at your own risk...

The talk of the town after "A Dark Knight: Mandatory Brunch Meeting" was the introduction of Jeremiah Valeska, Jerome's twin brother who will likely become the Joker by the time the season is over. However, when Jeremiah first appeared, he wasn't alone. The man was joined by a female bodyguard named Ecco, played by series newcomer Francesca Root-Dodson.

(Pictured: Francesca Root-Dodson as Ecco)

While she didn't have any of Harley Quinn's signature style or wit, there was one trait that had led many fans to believe Ecco could become Harley when Jeremiah finally puts on the white makeup. Ecco is wholly and completely devoted to Jeremiah. At one point in the episode, he even mentions that she has given her entire life to protecting him.

One of the main characteristics of Harley Quinn throughout most of her DC history is her loyalty to Joker. She loves him to a fault, no matter what he does to hurt her. Ecco's connection to Jeremiah could lead her down a similar path in the future.

While Ecco may seem like a lock to become Harley down the road, some very attentive fans have noticed that there is another character she could be mirroring.

Gotham is set to begin adapting the No Man's Land story arc at the end of the season. As Reddit user Aves115 points out, there is a character named Echo in those comics, and she fits the description of the woman who was introduced in Gotham this week.

The Echo in the No Man's Land comics was skilled as a marksman, and in hand to hand combat, a trait we saw on display in last night's episode. The original take on the character also had devices planted in her head that allowed her to read the thoughts of both humans and computers.

It's this last detail that hasn't been seen on the show yet. If she starts reading the minds of those around her, it's safe to say that Ecco's path will be leading straight into No Man's Land. However, if her blind loyalty to Jeremiah continues, and he does in fact transition into the Joker, we could be seeing Harley Quinn appear on Gotham in the very near future.

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

A Dark Knight: Mandatory Brunch Meeting

Loved his game show, did not guess his riddle, thought it was Time but it was ton

Interesting relationship they have........Can't say I love you

I'm really starting to doubt that Jerome is the Joker. In fact I'm sure he isn't. His twin, on the other hand, seems like a likely candidate. I have a feeling that Jeremiah will come into contact with that toxin and it will turn him into the Joker (bleached skin, huge grin etc) and he'll kill Jerome. When Jerome first came into the show he acted like a cross between Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger but for the last 2 seasons he's dropped the Jack part and seems to be channeling Heath Ledger more. My guess is that when his brother becomes the actual Joker he'll be more like the classic Jack Nicholson version. That way they can placate fans of both versions of the character. Oh, and here's a bonus prediction. Echo will be Harley Quinn. She even dressed in the same colours. I didn't like how Lee beat The Riddler. Why should we, as an audience, take him serious as a threat to Batman when Lee can beat him at his own game?

What I don't like is how the bad guys just get their super powers and somehow are master of their abilities and can beat the good guys right away. But yet when the good guys get their powers it's the other way around.

kpowers said:

Like how Poison Ivy became an expert in chemistry all of a sudden.

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

What I don't like is how the bad guys just get their super powers and somehow are master of their abilities and can beat the good guys right away. But yet when the good guys get their powers it's the other way around.

Like how Poison Ivy became an expert in chemistry all of a sudden.

Yes (when did she go to College come to think of it ) Like on Flash, took Barry alot training and a team to be the Flash. Yet this season on Flash 12 people on a bus got super powers (in a weird series of events). Most of them use their new powers to commit crimes. Some how they know how to use their powers, have a plan B or C to get away. Somehow they are not afraid of the Flash and some how they beat him and the rest of his team of The Elonglated Man, Vibe, and Frost. But yet if that was the Reverse Flash that would be another story. Wait, out of those 12 people who got superpowers one of them doesn't seem to know how to use his powers right away, Ralph Dibney (Elonglated Man)

[Edited 4/11/18 12:46pm]

kpowers said:

I never got into The Flash but that whole thing about the heroes taking longer to master the powers is just a classic case of lazy writing. I get that they want to stack the deck against the heroes so that when they prevail it will be seen as a big victory but it just doesn't make sense.

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

Yes (when did she go to College come to think of it ) Like on Flash, took Barry alot training and a team to be the Flash. Yet this season on Flash 12 people on a bus got super powers (in a weird series of events). Most of them use their new powers to commit crimes. Some how they know how to use their powers, have a plan B or C to get away. Somehow they are not afraid of the Flash and some how they beat him and the rest of his team of The Elonglated Man, Vibe, and Frost. But yet if that was the Reverse Flash that would be another story. Wait, out of those 12 people who got superpowers one of them doesn't seem to know how to use his powers right away, Ralph Dibney (Elonglated Man)

[Edited 4/11/18 12:46pm]

I never got into The Flash but that whole thing about the heroes taking longer to master the powers is just a classic case of lazy writing. I get that they want to stack the deck against the heroes so that when they prevail it will be seen as a big victory but it just doesn't make sense.

I think it's more the bad guys win in the begining and the Heroes win at the end.

A Dark Knight: That's Entertainment

Did Alfred just gave Bruce the Bat-mobile?

Wow look how young Bruce looks, he's tall as Alfred now.

After the Gotham Music festival I would make Jerome in charge of Lilith fair. Exploding heads, only in Gotham

Penguin is afraid of Joker. A reluctant Hero who help save Gotham.

So they were a power couple in a past life?

Feeling like a third wheel now? "Which one of you bitches are next" love that line. Well there's a next chapter for Tabitha.

A blimp to release toxic gas over Gotham? Now that's old school Batman.

have I mentioned how much I'm digging Scarecrow?

When Gordon was on the phone and said "Harvey" for a split second I thought he was talking to Harvey Dent and not Bullock

They have the same D.N.A

And Emma was right

[Edited 4/13/18 14:10pm]

kpowers said:

I'd say it's a precursor to the batmobile rather than the real thing. I imagine he'll add a few bells and whistles (and mounted guns) at a later date.

Just before Gordon shows up at the music festival Jerome and the band are playing the 60s Batman theme.

I think Penguin was just looking out for himself rather than it being a truly heroic act.

I'm not much of a fan of the mystic stuff. I'd probably side with Tabitha in that particular scenario.

I loved the blimp idea. That's were Heath Ledger and Jared Leto went wrong. They never had a blimp.

Scarecrow is better when he doesn't take his mask off.

Surely with all the villains that get arrested every week there's reason enough to bring back the D.A.?

Yup, so far so good as far as my Joker predictions go. Maybe next week Echo will become Harley Quinn. Although I have a feeling that she'll be like a prototype Harley. Not quite the real thing but after Gordon presumably guns her down in cold blood, The Joker will be determined to find another young blonde girl and mould her into his new sidekick.

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

A Dark Knight: That's Entertainment

Did Alfred just gave Bruce the Bat-mobile?

Wow look how young Bruce looks, he's tall as Alfred now.

After the Gotham Music festival I would make Jerome in charge of Lilith fair. Exploding heads, only in Gotham

Penguin is afraid of Joker. A reluctant Hero who help save Gotham.

So they were a power couple in a past life?

Feeling like a third wheel now? "Which one of you bitches are next" love that line. Well there's a next chapter for Tabitha.

A blimp to release toxic gas over Gotham? Now that's old school Batman.

have I mentioned how much I'm digging Scarecrow?

When Gordon was on the phone and said "Harvey" for a split second I thought he was talking to Harvey Dent and not Bullock

They have the same D.N.A

And Emma was right

[Edited 4/13/18 14:10pm]

I'd say it's a precursor to the batmobile rather than the real thing. I imagine he'll add a few bells and whistles (and mounted guns) at a later date. Just before Gordon shows up at the music festival Jerome and the band are playing the 60s Batman theme. I think Penguin was just looking out for himself rather than it being a truly heroic act. I'm not much of a fan of the mystic stuff. I'd probably side with Tabitha in that particular scenario. I loved the blimp idea. That's were Heath Ledger and Jared Leto went wrong. They never had a blimp. Scarecrow is better when he doesn't take his mask off. Surely with all the villains that get arrested every week there's reason enough to bring back the D.A.? Yup, so far so good as far as my Joker predictions go. Maybe next week Echo will become Harley Quinn. Although I have a feeling that she'll be like a prototype Harley. Not quite the real thing but after Gordon presumably guns her down in cold blood, The Joker will be determined to find another young blonde girl and mould her into his new sidekick.

Wow I missed that. For the record I always sides with Tabitha Yes that is the way I like the Scrarecrow, with the mask on. I like my super heroes and bad guys in their out fits, that's why I tend to find the cartoons better than the live version. Batman movies are like 80% Bruce Wayne and 20% Batman (well that what it feels like). I know Hollywood loves showing off there actors and that's why Captain America, Spiderman and others are forever taking off their mask. We see inside Iron man suit so we can see Robert Downey Jr. face. But that's just me I guess. With the mystic stuff maybe they will show a young Zatanna? She was on Batman the animated series

[Edited 4/13/18 16:47pm]

Yeah, I'd imagine that most people would side with Tabitha.

EmmaMcG said:

This really was a great episode. I also heard the Batman theme which was a fun touch. I liked the song Jerome was singing too before he returned to speech, wish I'd heard more of his punk rock toons. As well as alluding to the batmobile, which I agree needs to be modified further, I felt there were allusions to the batcave early on in the episode. Penguin in the blimp was really funny, I like the portrayal of penguin as the villain with a conscience. The box at the end was well done too - so obvious, I was willing him to just leave it (whilst knowing he wouldn't). I'm still fixated with Barbara's hair which was lovely this episode, hope she keeps it. The painting was awful though.

Barbara has had some strange hair styles over the last couple of seasons but the last few episodes have been a big improvement.

The many hairdo's (and don'ts) of Barbara Kean

kpowers said:

The first and third pictures are the best.

EmmaMcG said:

Agreed. The final three are awful. Great actress though.

OK my theory is that might not be the real Barbara Kean after all. Let's go back all the way to season 1.

Towards the end of season 1 "the Ogre", a serial killer who targets young women in Gotham City captures Barbara Kean. We also learn that there is an underground black market that is stealing people's faces (hey once again this is Gotham, plus they haven't mentioned that whole stealing people's faces since season 1, writers want us to forget). So it's possible this crazy lady is not the real Barbara after all.

So the real Barbara could be locked up somewhere. With that said when the series comes to an end and they can have it where fake Barbara and Lee both get killed, Gordon finds the real Barbara, they end getting married and thus Batgirl is born

Hey it's very possible fake Barbara could even turn out to be Harley Quinn, which kinda makes sense

kpowers said:

Interesting theory but I don't think it's likely. I reckon the reason the writers want us to forget about the face stealing is because it was crap rather than it being used 4 years later for a plot twist.

Also, isn't Batgirl supposed to be Jim's daughter, not his wife.

Barbara would have made a good Harley Quinn but I'm still backing Echo to be the proto Harley. They'll never refer to her as Harley Quinn but she'll fill the same role. Until Jim puts a few bullets in her.

I think Barbara's story from here on out will be focused on her thinking she's the one to replace Ra's Al Ghul. Until Ra's comes back and sets her straight when he tells her that Bruce Wayne is still his chosen one.

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

OK my theory is that might not be the real Barbara Kean after all. Let's go back all the way to season 1.

Towards the end of season 1 "the Ogre", a serial killer who targets young women in Gotham City captures Barbara Kean. We also learn that there is an underground black market that is stealing people's faces (hey once again this is Gotham, plus they haven't mentioned that whole stealing people's faces since season 1, writers want us to forget). So it's possible this crazy lady is not the real Barbara after all.

So the real Barbara could be locked up somewhere. With that said when the series comes to an end and they can have it where fake Barbara and Lee both get killed, Gordon finds the real Barbara, they end getting married and thus Batgirl is born

Hey it's very possible fake Barbara could even turn out to be Harley Quinn, which kinda makes sense

Interesting theory but I don't think it's likely. I reckon the reason the writers want us to forget about the face stealing is because it was crap rather than it being used 4 years later for a plot twist. Also, isn't Batgirl supposed to be Jim's daughter, not his wife. Barbara would have made a good Harley Quinn but I'm still backing Echo to be the proto Harley. They'll never refer to her as Harley Quinn but she'll fill the same role. Until Jim puts a few bullets in her. I think Barbara's story from here on out will be focused on her thinking she's the one to replace Ra's Al Ghul. Until Ra's comes back and sets her straight when he tells her that Bruce Wayne is still his chosen one.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim marries Barbara and they have a daughter, Barbara

[Edited 4/15/18 13:22pm]