OldFriends4Sale said:

benni said:

1.) For those saying this is a 14 year old guy, and not a kid.

2.)When does age matter if sexual advances are made towards them that they do not want?

3.) I, as a 52 year old woman, should just suck it up if a man makes unwanted advances towards me, because, obviously as a mother, I know about sex? So, knowing about sex, or even being sexually curious, makes it okay to have someone make unwanted advances towards them? Now, keep in mind, that this kid was picked up and carried to the bed and Spacey laid on top of him. The kid pushed Spacey away and left. The fact that the kid pushed Spacey away says this was NOT WANTED and left, that the advances were made without the kids approval. But, we should say that this is okay because he is 14 and curious sexually?

Do those of you defending this, honestly think that having something like that happen to you, something you do not want, would not have an impact on you? It does have an impact on you, because you become scared and confused, "What is this guy doing? I don't want this. Is he going to force me?" Afterwards, you blame yourself, "Did I do something, say something, that made him think that was okay?" Then you feel ashamed, "I can't believe that happened. Does everyone know? Did he brag about what he did to me? Did he say I wanted it?" When you carry that crap around inside of you, it eats away at you. It DOES effect you, your relationships, your level of ability to trust. Add to the fact that this was a famous guy, big in Hollywood, at which you are trying to make a name for yourself, to start a career, and this man has the ability to break you and keep you from having a career if this comes out.

I can't believe anyone is excusing this, and trying to devalue the claims just because the kid was 14 years old.

1.) Well technically 14 is not a kid. And that is the mistake even parents make in raising the sons and daughters as they get older to still see them as kids. That is why many don't won't can't talk to them about adult things such as sex, which 14 is the ripe age where sexuality for male and female is very internally real.

.

As said in prior posts, for most of the world and not even that long ago in the USA 14yr old girls were married and having families. With men 10yrs their senior.
I was reading something about Thomas Jefferson and his mixed race slave Sally Hemmings. Someone called Thomas Jefferson a pedophile. But that term being invented in the 80s cannot be applied to someone who lived in the 17/1800s. 14 was the age a female could have sex/could be married and have children. In some countries the age of consent vs the USA is much lower.

Still this day and definately in times not so past, when talking of women living longer than men, which was more focused on wives living longer than their husbands, was because the husbands tended to be much older. Sometimes the age of the couple was the same or close, but and established man and older was the route many women went. Not to mention the mortality rate were lots of people did not live to be even 60, humans started reproducing earlier.

.

So now in 1970s and 80s when we start reevaluating youth and teens and laws, ideas change. Women have more opportunities, we started looking at our ideas of women being limited and why and such. That women have more opportunities in life beyond 1. getting married 2. raising a family 3. being a homemaker.
Also in the situation of Kevin Spacey and Anthony, most of the people saying how wrong it was/is(not talking about people here) but in general back in 1986 even, if they were both the same age would condemn it because of their views of same sex relations. And just prior to this period, the laws on the book would condemn them whether they were two 14yr old or 24 yrs olds because of sexuality.

.

So a lot of this is why now seeing a 14yr as a kid/child and the laws of philia came in. But for most of human history it wasn't so.

.

If Anthony went to the police in 1986, how would this whole situation be received? How would the American public view this situation. Kevin would be considered a deviant sexual predator because his advances were toward a male. And Anthony would be looked at as a deviant and someone who needed to be fixed. Sent to a councilor. ex-Gay ministry, sex reparative therapy or shock treatement. Even in the 80s

.

2.) That is a good question, because in this world, humans(who are still animals) react to each other physically. When a stallion approaches a mare for sexual breeding, he is making an advance. The mare might not be read or want it and rebuffs his advances. He might try a few more times. Does that make his a sexual predator? A deviant?

.

Now this opens up a huge door, because some are saying 'well we are not animals'. Well I beg to differ. Some will come at this from a 'religious' perspective and say the human race is not animals, we are above animals etc. But the truth is whether religious or not, we are biological beings whose basic sole survival is based on EAT/DRINK SLEEP BREED/SEX, everything else is built on that.
.
I came of age in the 70s/80s when people went place to find sexual partners/marriage partners vs this age when people are so detached from sensuality and the 5 senses via cyber space life, dating apps and sex cams. In the bars and clubs people drank to loosen up if needed, and people danced in very tribal ways to feel out each other for sex or for dating etc men/women touch each other, grind on each other, a stroke across the cheek etc Women and me did this stuff.

.

In this situation with Kevin, Anthony was in his place, went to Kevins bedroom, and sat on Kevin's bed. So right there, lines were blurred, Kevin picked him up and laid him on the bed again. Even Anthony's language, he said 'seduce' not rape/molest/force etc And when he removed himself from the bed, Kevin did not pursue or try to force him.

.

Back to your question. Once the person makes it clear they don't want to go further is the point, when if the other person continues to push it, then it is sexual harrassment.

.

3.) your point about 'so I should just suck it up' is not even close to what anyone said Benni. Can you repost where anyone is insinuating that?

What I'm saying specifically is, humans are sexual. We are not some sci-fi beings that that have evolved into a huge brain because we have no need for sex anymore. What are the different ways we know someone is interested in us? The first thing is visual. We see someone who is Sexually appealing to us. We look at them, we try to make eye contact, etc. But if even the act of looking makes someone a deviant, then as a race we are fucked. Because I've heard plenty of women say they felt uncomfortable because I man was looking at them. At what point do we make rules against even looking at another person that we are attracted to? (and the idea of another woman looking at them, or a man looking at another man, I still don't think people are ready to deal with)

.

I workout, I have a pretty nice build. I was friends with a female coworker. Friends with her husband, two kids, sister etc. One summer, being all buff and such in my office, she came into put some paperwork in a slot and made a comment about my build. She immediately walked over to me with her hands out to touch me. Two other guys were in the office, and were watching this happen. I had jumped out of my chair to back away from her advances. I don't like being touch in general. I told her not to touch me. Now yes she was my friend, so I was horrified by this. But I really did not want her to touch me. And she kept pressing it, laughing etc trying to touch my abdomin, chest and shoulders. I finally had to ball up my fist and threaten to hit her to get her to stop. Now I will tell you this, if it was the other way, she would have called Human Resources or went to the division head and reported me(or any other man). A lot of guys who work out, who are bodybuilders etc have said that women think just because they work on their bodies and have muscles that they feel it is ok to just grope them and feel them. Again, if reversed, he would be a sexual predator.

A female teacher was found to be having sex with a 15yr old male student. She got community service.

.

If someone welcomes the advances, then that is mutual. Once it is clear the other does not want it it is wrong. But can the person/should the person be viewed as 'slimy' or a sexual predator etc just because they made and advance that the other didn't want, even if the person relented when the other rebuffed them?

.

With this situation with Kevin and Anthony that happened in 1986 it just is not going to be a clear cut conclusion in many peoples minds.

I read a few things about this. And Anthony's wording and reasoning just gives me pause.

.

No one is excusing anything. I think most of us are are saying, that it isn't as black n white as people too easily place things in boxes. And especially the quick jump to condemn based on one sided evidence. As I said earlier, Just in the last two years, there are men who have been in jail/on the sex offender registry for 10-30 yrs based on false claims. We just have to also think before responding to these things. As I said earlier Kevin has to be judged according a crime based on full knowledge, not allegation.

.

.

Think even about the laws in the USA concern drinking ages. Are the laws the same state to state or do they vary? And think about all the parents that allow their kids a glass of wine or even a beer. or say they will allow it at home that way they can protect them in those boundaries. My parents gave us a little wine during special occasions and holidays. The ones that didn't like it didn't continue to drink it. We went to a church that used real red wine for communion. They still do.

.

Yes people are going to be bothered and disturbed and troubled by things that happen sexually. Whether the other person is the same age or not. People who are adults are troubled by sex, and sexual advances. Many different reasons why. Some religious, some traditional morals, some just because the person doesn't know who they are and what they want. There was a male student at a nearby college who was suspended from school and jailed because a female student said he raped her. But when it was all done and said, she just felt bad about the actual sex act, that come to find out she pressed for him to do on her. But he did nothing wrong, but was judged and his name was put out there.

.

.

This is why I'm 'playing devils advocate' because people still are not using discretion in their decision making process. Just drop the hammer.

Also member Luvesexy made 2 points about parents talking to their children and I added a third, that parents have to talk to their children about situation before they get into them when it comes to sex. And I don't understand for the life of my why some people argued against that.

[Edited 11/4/17 11:03am]

The problem with this thinking OF4S, is that it is not black and white at this age regarding maturity. At 14, I was very mature, could have ended up on the streets and survived, got a job, etc. But I had to grow up at a VERY young age, took on the responsibility of caring for an infant sister after my mother's death when I was 7 - my dad would leave us alone for days and weeks at a time. So at 14, I was already very responsible and very mature.

However, at this age, most kids are still developing logical thinking and are still emotionally growing. While physically, some kids at this age appear to be full-grown, emotionally, logically, they are not. There is a balance that a parent of kids at this age has to find. On the one hand, kids this age want independence, want to be able to make their own choices. On the other hand, a parent has to look at that child's maturity level, their ability to reason and make sound decisions, and allow them to make decisions that are in keeping with their maturity level. Not all kids are mature at this age.

Research done on adolescent's brains shows that they are not able to rationally make decisions yet, not the way an adult does. Excerpt from findings of just such research:

The researchers found that when processing emotions, adults have greater activity in their frontal lobes than do teenagers. Adults also have lower activity in their amygdala than teenagers. In fact, as teenagers age into adulthood, the overall focus of brain activity seems to shift from the amygdala to the frontal lobes.

The frontal lobes of the brain have been implicated in behavioral inhibition, the ability to control emotions and impulses. The frontal lobes are also thought to be the place where decisions about right and wrong, as well as cause-effect relationships are processed. In contrast, the amygdala is part of the limbic system of the brain and is involved in instinctive “gut” reactions, including “fight or flight” responses. Lower activity in the frontal lobe could lead to poor control over behavior and emotions, while an overactive amygdala may be associated with high levels of emotional arousal and reactionary decision-making.

The results from the McLean study suggest that while adults can to use rational decision making processes when facing emotional decisions, adolescent brains are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way. For example, when deciding whether to ride in a car driven by a drunk friend, an adult can usually put aside her desire to conform and is more likely to make the rational decision against drunk driving. However, a teenager’s immature frontal lobes may not be capable of such a coolly rational approach, and the emotional feelings of friendship may be likely to win the battle. As Dr. Yurgelun-Todd told U.S. News, “Good judgment is learned, but you can’t learn it if you don’t have the necessary hardware.”

OldFriends4Sale said:

About 15+ yrs ago, I was a part of a community function/gathering that met weekly. So you got to know the people well. There was a woman who had 1 boy and 3 girls. The eldest girl was maybe around my age, the youngest 15.

All the of the girls looked like grown women. The looked the age of the eldest sister who was around 25ish at the time. The girls were stacked, like they took hormones or something. You just would not know the ages unless you were told. And still might not believe it. They dressed like grown women too.

I was friends with the eldest daughter. One Sunday I got a call from their house, and it was the middle sister. Make a long story short, the 15yr old was attracted to me and wanted to date me.
I was shocked and repulsed at how easily they were ok and normal about it. Like they dated older men all the time. The next time I saw the mother, I talked to her about it. And the mother was like 'hey they are mature and it's not a big problem etc etc'

.

The world ain't so black n white about this stuff.

Fresh out of college I worked phones at night for a business. I had a coworker that had a daughter that was 15. Well she calls one night and starts chatting. I chatted for a little she was saying how life was tough. Then she goes into her mom doesn't care if I date her and I can come and meet her, take her out and do whatever I want. Even if given the green light I said no!!! My life is usually a lot of turmoil and I'm proud I made the decision. It would have backfired and I would have gotten in trouble.

Also, regarding women getting married at 14 way back when: Back then, infant deaths were high. An older man often chose a woman of that age, because biologically she was fertile for many more years than a woman of 25 to 35. Since the risk of infant mortality was high, they needed someone that was young and fertile to increase the chances of having many sons that would reach working ages. And back then, times were harder. A young girl often took on duties of the household and caring for their younger sibings, because it was expected of them. Every one in the household had to do their part in order for the family to survive. So a young girl of 14, would "seem" mature because she had been placed in a role of responsibility. However, that does not mean that mentally, emotionally, she was ready for a relationship with an older man. BUT since it was expected, required even some times to make those family alliances, the girl would do what was expected of her. Tell me, were boys of 14 married off back then? No, they were expected to stay on the farm, providing labor for a few more years before they went off on their own or got married. So, you cannot use those eras as proof that KIDS are more mature because back then, the girls got married at 14.

OFFS said:

State by state the laws change as well for when someone can get married.
You can say you provide for them, they are still in school, and they are NOT of LEGAL age

but the LAW says different. See this stuff is why i'm just trying to get people to think outside of their emotional reaction to this Kevin/Anthony situation. If you don't kwow the law, your/our emotional reaction means nothing.

[Edited 11/4/17 11:35am]

This here is where we differ. There are many things that fall within the legal juristrictions of the law but that remain immoral, inproper and inappropriate. Just because something is legal doen't give you a free pass. Maybe it wasn't illegal to assume that maybe the 14 yr old would consent to some form of sexual activity, perhaps it wasn't illegal to lure him to the bedroom and then climb on top of him, but it is immoral. The lad was a kid - and as Benni rightly points out, is not yet capable of making rational decisions. Spacey, on the other hand, knew the kids age and should have stayed the fuck away. The law has nothing to do with morals.

benni said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

1.) Well technically 14 is not a kid. And that is the mistake even parents make in raising the sons and daughters as they get older to still see them as kids. That is why many don't won't can't talk to them about adult things such as sex, which 14 is the ripe age where sexuality for male and female is very internally real.

.

As said in prior posts, for most of the world and not even that long ago in the USA 14yr old girls were married and having families. With men 10yrs their senior.
I was reading something about Thomas Jefferson and his mixed race slave Sally Hemmings. Someone called Thomas Jefferson a pedophile. But that term being invented in the 80s cannot be applied to someone who lived in the 17/1800s. 14 was the age a female could have sex/could be married and have children. In some countries the age of consent vs the USA is much lower.

Still this day and definately in times not so past, when talking of women living longer than men, which was more focused on wives living longer than their husbands, was because the husbands tended to be much older. Sometimes the age of the couple was the same or close, but and established man and older was the route many women went. Not to mention the mortality rate were lots of people did not live to be even 60, humans started reproducing earlier.

.

So now in 1970s and 80s when we start reevaluating youth and teens and laws, ideas change. Women have more opportunities, we started looking at our ideas of women being limited and why and such. That women have more opportunities in life beyond 1. getting married 2. raising a family 3. being a homemaker.
Also in the situation of Kevin Spacey and Anthony, most of the people saying how wrong it was/is(not talking about people here) but in general back in 1986 even, if they were both the same age would condemn it because of their views of same sex relations. And just prior to this period, the laws on the book would condemn them whether they were two 14yr old or 24 yrs olds because of sexuality.

.

So a lot of this is why now seeing a 14yr as a kid/child and the laws of philia came in. But for most of human history it wasn't so.

.

If Anthony went to the police in 1986, how would this whole situation be received? How would the American public view this situation. Kevin would be considered a deviant sexual predator because his advances were toward a male. And Anthony would be looked at as a deviant and someone who needed to be fixed. Sent to a councilor. ex-Gay ministry, sex reparative therapy or shock treatement. Even in the 80s

.

2.) That is a good question, because in this world, humans(who are still animals) react to each other physically. When a stallion approaches a mare for sexual breeding, he is making an advance. The mare might not be read or want it and rebuffs his advances. He might try a few more times. Does that make his a sexual predator? A deviant?

.

Now this opens up a huge door, because some are saying 'well we are not animals'. Well I beg to differ. Some will come at this from a 'religious' perspective and say the human race is not animals, we are above animals etc. But the truth is whether religious or not, we are biological beings whose basic sole survival is based on EAT/DRINK SLEEP BREED/SEX, everything else is built on that.
.
I came of age in the 70s/80s when people went place to find sexual partners/marriage partners vs this age when people are so detached from sensuality and the 5 senses via cyber space life, dating apps and sex cams. In the bars and clubs people drank to loosen up if needed, and people danced in very tribal ways to feel out each other for sex or for dating etc men/women touch each other, grind on each other, a stroke across the cheek etc Women and me did this stuff.

.

In this situation with Kevin, Anthony was in his place, went to Kevins bedroom, and sat on Kevin's bed. So right there, lines were blurred, Kevin picked him up and laid him on the bed again. Even Anthony's language, he said 'seduce' not rape/molest/force etc And when he removed himself from the bed, Kevin did not pursue or try to force him.

.

Back to your question. Once the person makes it clear they don't want to go further is the point, when if the other person continues to push it, then it is sexual harrassment.

.

3.) your point about 'so I should just suck it up' is not even close to what anyone said Benni. Can you repost where anyone is insinuating that?

What I'm saying specifically is, humans are sexual. We are not some sci-fi beings that that have evolved into a huge brain because we have no need for sex anymore. What are the different ways we know someone is interested in us? The first thing is visual. We see someone who is Sexually appealing to us. We look at them, we try to make eye contact, etc. But if even the act of looking makes someone a deviant, then as a race we are fucked. Because I've heard plenty of women say they felt uncomfortable because I man was looking at them. At what point do we make rules against even looking at another person that we are attracted to? (and the idea of another woman looking at them, or a man looking at another man, I still don't think people are ready to deal with)

.

I workout, I have a pretty nice build. I was friends with a female coworker. Friends with her husband, two kids, sister etc. One summer, being all buff and such in my office, she came into put some paperwork in a slot and made a comment about my build. She immediately walked over to me with her hands out to touch me. Two other guys were in the office, and were watching this happen. I had jumped out of my chair to back away from her advances. I don't like being touch in general. I told her not to touch me. Now yes she was my friend, so I was horrified by this. But I really did not want her to touch me. And she kept pressing it, laughing etc trying to touch my abdomin, chest and shoulders. I finally had to ball up my fist and threaten to hit her to get her to stop. Now I will tell you this, if it was the other way, she would have called Human Resources or went to the division head and reported me(or any other man). A lot of guys who work out, who are bodybuilders etc have said that women think just because they work on their bodies and have muscles that they feel it is ok to just grope them and feel them. Again, if reversed, he would be a sexual predator.

A female teacher was found to be having sex with a 15yr old male student. She got community service.

.

If someone welcomes the advances, then that is mutual. Once it is clear the other does not want it it is wrong. But can the person/should the person be viewed as 'slimy' or a sexual predator etc just because they made and advance that the other didn't want, even if the person relented when the other rebuffed them?

.

With this situation with Kevin and Anthony that happened in 1986 it just is not going to be a clear cut conclusion in many peoples minds.

I read a few things about this. And Anthony's wording and reasoning just gives me pause.

.

No one is excusing anything. I think most of us are are saying, that it isn't as black n white as people too easily place things in boxes. And especially the quick jump to condemn based on one sided evidence. As I said earlier, Just in the last two years, there are men who have been in jail/on the sex offender registry for 10-30 yrs based on false claims. We just have to also think before responding to these things. As I said earlier Kevin has to be judged according a crime based on full knowledge, not allegation.

.

.

Think even about the laws in the USA concern drinking ages. Are the laws the same state to state or do they vary? And think about all the parents that allow their kids a glass of wine or even a beer. or say they will allow it at home that way they can protect them in those boundaries. My parents gave us a little wine during special occasions and holidays. The ones that didn't like it didn't continue to drink it. We went to a church that used real red wine for communion. They still do.

.

Yes people are going to be bothered and disturbed and troubled by things that happen sexually. Whether the other person is the same age or not. People who are adults are troubled by sex, and sexual advances. Many different reasons why. Some religious, some traditional morals, some just because the person doesn't know who they are and what they want. There was a male student at a nearby college who was suspended from school and jailed because a female student said he raped her. But when it was all done and said, she just felt bad about the actual sex act, that come to find out she pressed for him to do on her. But he did nothing wrong, but was judged and his name was put out there.

.

.

This is why I'm 'playing devils advocate' because people still are not using discretion in their decision making process. Just drop the hammer.

Also member Luvesexy made 2 points about parents talking to their children and I added a third, that parents have to talk to their children about situation before they get into them when it comes to sex. And I don't understand for the life of my why some people argued against that.

[Edited 11/4/17 11:03am]

The problem with this thinking OF4S, is that it is not black and white at this age regarding maturity. At 14, I was very mature, could have ended up on the streets and survived, got a job, etc. But I had to grow up at a VERY young age, took on the responsibility of caring for an infant sister after my mother's death when I was 7 - my dad would leave us alone for days and weeks at a time. So at 14, I was already very responsible and very mature.

However, at this age, most kids are still developing logical thinking and are still emotionally growing. While physically, some kids at this age appear to be full-grown, emotionally, logically, they are not. There is a balance that a parent of kids at this age has to find. On the one hand, kids this age want independence, want to be able to make their own choices. On the other hand, a parent has to look at that child's maturity level, their ability to reason and make sound decisions, and allow them to make decisions that are in keeping with their maturity level. Not all kids are mature at this age.

Research done on adolescent's brains shows that they are not able to rationally make decisions yet, not the way an adult does. Excerpt from findings of just such research:

The researchers found that when processing emotions, adults have greater activity in their frontal lobes than do teenagers. Adults also have lower activity in their amygdala than teenagers. In fact, as teenagers age into adulthood, the overall focus of brain activity seems to shift from the amygdala to the frontal lobes.

The frontal lobes of the brain have been implicated in behavioral inhibition, the ability to control emotions and impulses. The frontal lobes are also thought to be the place where decisions about right and wrong, as well as cause-effect relationships are processed. In contrast, the amygdala is part of the limbic system of the brain and is involved in instinctive “gut” reactions, including “fight or flight” responses. Lower activity in the frontal lobe could lead to poor control over behavior and emotions, while an overactive amygdala may be associated with high levels of emotional arousal and reactionary decision-making.

The results from the McLean study suggest that while adults can to use rational decision making processes when facing emotional decisions, adolescent brains are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way. For example, when deciding whether to ride in a car driven by a drunk friend, an adult can usually put aside her desire to conform and is more likely to make the rational decision against drunk driving. However, a teenager’s immature frontal lobes may not be capable of such a coolly rational approach, and the emotional feelings of friendship may be likely to win the battle. As Dr. Yurgelun-Todd told U.S. News, “Good judgment is learned, but you can’t learn it if you don’t have the necessary hardware.”

I know it is not black n white. That is what I'm saying.

And I'm in agreement with youir post. I'm not in disagreement with that at all.

And back to the research for a moment.

OF4S said: "In this situation with Kevin, Anthony was in his place, went to Kevins bedroom, and sat on Kevin's bed. So right there, lines were blurred, Kevin picked him up and laid him on the bed again."

The research mentioned an example in which a teenager is trying to make a decision about whether to get in a car when a friend is drunk and driving. The 14 year old will not always make the best decisions, because they lack the ability to discern right and wrong in the way that an adult does. The adult would think it through and realize that it is not a good idea, friend or no friend, and may even try to talk their friend out of driving. The 14 year old will look at the idea that if they don't do this, their friend may think they aren't cool, and not want to hang out with them any more, so the 14 year old will decide to get in the car.

At 14, Anthony had a major star giving him attention. At this age, kids are very self-conscious, especially of their bodies. Their self-esteem is really tied to any attention they get, negative or positive. Having Spacey give him attention had to really seem incredible to him. When Spacey invited him to his room to talk, a kid at that age would not be thinking, "Oh, he wants to have sex with me." They would be thinking, "How cool is this!? Spacey wants to talk with me alone! He's giving me all of the attention!" As an adult, looking back and thinking about it, "He was trying to seduce me." As a 14 year old, "Man, how cool is this!" Now, if you have a kid of 14 who has NEVER experienced sex, or been seduced, or even abused, they are not going to automatically think that an adult giving them attention is wanting sex. A child that has been sexually abused, will automatically think of sex, they will be looking for those signs because they know those signs. They may even come on to the adult, because they had been programed to act that way towards an adult at younger ages; BUT it does not mean that is what they want - they are acting in the way they were programed. It is up to the adult to be an adult and gently turn away those advances.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Back then, if a child accused an adult of being sexually abusive towards them, the child was NOT always believed and would even be blamed. I told on an abuser, the juvenile officer asked what I was wearing, "Blue jean shorts, a tank top, and a flannel shirt over the tank top tied at my waist." (These were the clothes bought for me by my aunt. I wore what she bought me. When I would pick out what clothes I wanted to wear it was baggy shirts, baggy sweat shirts, and my aunt would not buy those for me.) The Juvenile officer said, "Well, don't you think that was a little provacative?" I had to look that word up. I didn't even know what it meant. When I did, I was pissed. How is wearing the clothes purchased for me, standing at a kitchen stove, fixing dinner because that was my chore, being provocative? He then went on to say that my abuser was a "fine, upstanding citizen of the community, and was I sure that I wanted to ruin his life with my accusations".

I had ran away prior to this, to get away from the situation. The police officers that came to my friend's house to talk to me, said my aunt told them she thought I was using drugs. I was a straight A student, athletic, on the volleyball, basketball, and track teams. I spoke out against drugs (had family members that were using drugs and I saw what it did to them). So she accused me of using drugs. The cop said, "You don't look like you are on any kind of drugs. You just look like a scared little girl to me." I was 14 years old at this time. When he reached out and grabbed me, I pushed his hand away from me, and said, "Don't you EVER touch me again." I was scared of out of my mind. Terrified in fact. So, going by the reasoning you are using, with what occurred with a 14 year old boy, since he stopped when I pushed his hand away, and since I was wearing "provocative" clothing, then..... I wasn't a kid being taken advantage of by an adult, since I was practically an adult myself?

[Edited 11/4/17 13:16pm]

maplenpg said:

OFFS said:

State by state the laws change as well for when someone can get married.
You can say you provide for them, they are still in school, and they are NOT of LEGAL age

but the LAW says different. See this stuff is why i'm just trying to get people to think outside of their emotional reaction to this Kevin/Anthony situation. If you don't kwow the law, your/our emotional reaction means nothing.

[Edited 11/4/17 11:35am]

This here is where we differ. There are many things that fall within the legal juristrictions of the law but that remain immoral, inproper and inappropriate. Just because something is legal doen't give you a free pass. Maybe it wasn't illegal to assume that maybe the 14 yr old would consent to some form of sexual activity, perhaps it wasn't illegal to lure him to the bedroom and then climb on top of him, but it is immoral. The lad was a kid - and as Benni rightly points out, is not yet capable of making rational decisions. Spacey, on the other hand, knew the kids age and should have stayed the fuck away. The law has nothing to do with morals.

Well my post was in direct response to PennyPurples idea of kids. Not whether or not sex with a 14yr old is legal.

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And my post still stands with if you don't know the law, your emotional reaction means nothing. That can be directed at the adult in a situation with a minor too. Like the parents whose emotional reaction is to let teens drink under their roof, what will the law say.

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You are on point about immoral, inproper and inappropriate. Like the use here of the term pedophile, it did not even exist in the 70s as a 'condition or crime'. But like I pointed out, it wasn't always so. And as I said a few times already, Kevin will have to face the law on what crossed the line.

.

Did Spacey actually know his age? Has he talked more about it? Spacey I mean.

But the law does have a lot to do with morals maplenpg. All of this is wrapped up in morals and how those morals changed over time. Like that a 14yr old girls could be married to 20something yr old man and make a family. Homosexuality was decriminalized in the 70s. It was based on peoples moral interpretations, and that mindset is still strongly here. Prostitution is just as much a moral issue as it is legal.

[Edited 11/4/17 14:57pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

maplenpg said:

This here is where we differ. There are many things that fall within the legal juristrictions of the law but that remain immoral, inproper and inappropriate. Just because something is legal doen't give you a free pass. Maybe it wasn't illegal to assume that maybe the 14 yr old would consent to some form of sexual activity, perhaps it wasn't illegal to lure him to the bedroom and then climb on top of him, but it is immoral. The lad was a kid - and as Benni rightly points out, is not yet capable of making rational decisions. Spacey, on the other hand, knew the kids age and should have stayed the fuck away. The law has nothing to do with morals.

Well my post was in direct response to PennyPurples idea of kids. Not whether or not sex with a 14yr old is legal.

.

And my post still stands with if you don't know the law, your emotional reaction means nothing. That can be directed at the adult in a situation with a minor too. Like the parents whose emotional reaction is to let teens drink under their roof, what will the law say.

.

You are on point about immoral, inproper and inappropriate. Like the use here of the term pedophile, it did not even exist in the 70s as a 'condition or crime'. But like I pointed out, it wasn't always so. And as I said a few times already, Kevin will have to face the law on what crossed the line.

.

Did Spacey actually know his age? Has he talked more about it? Spacey I mean.

But the law doesn't have a lot to do with morals maplenpg. All of this is wrapped up in morals and how those morals changed over time. Like that a 14yr old girls could be married to 20something yr old man and make a family. Homosexuality was decriminalized in the 70s. It was based on peoples moral interpretations, and that mindset is still strongly here. Prostitution is just as much a moral issue as it is legal.

Actually, there was another man that came forward and said when he first met Stacey, he was 12 years old. At 14, he met Stacey again and Stacey told him that he'd been attracted to him when he was 12, but that he hadn't acted on at that time because he was only 12, but now that he was 14....

maplenpg said:

Spacey invited him to his room to talk? I thought he invited him to a party?

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Benni, I'm in 100% agreement that the adult has to be the knowledgeable one and make the right legal descision.

.

But you can bet if a man was accused of making advances toward another male, he would be judged. Versus how a man would be perceived if it was a female. Like I said, early in 1986 how that situation was or could be played out is very much different in 2017, with how people view sexuality.

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Now one of the reason I chose to play 'devils' advocate' was for this very reason. Before we knew anything, just based on the first alleged accusation right when it came out, someone creates a thread titled: Kevin Spacey Hollyweirdo Sexual Assualt; more NWO Satanic fallout... Molested and incorrectly labelled a pedophile.

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I wanted to challange this. This way of condemnation by word of mouth.

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I posted a link above of what looks like a cyber-lynchmob found someone with the same name as they man Corey Feldman named. And he is not the same person but he is now being connected to being a child molester and pedophile.

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How do we not know some of the reasonings is not because it was a Male/Male situation? And people have more of a problem with that versus a M/F situation.
A lot of people don't have as much of a problem with a male(kid)and an adult female.
Why is that? These are the gray area things that people are still evolving to.

the casual use of pedophile. etc and all of this was without any weighed information.

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I'm sorry for what happened to you Benni. I have a friend who was raped at knife point in a playground and another who was molested by a family member. We went to the same high school and she was a big Prince fan back then too.

When I was in junior high 7th grade, ther was this girl that rode my bus, who liked me. I didn't like her back. Nichole Eventually she got her older girl cousin Jackie to wait outside the Spanish classroom(whatever period that was back then) and taunt me, while she stood on the side with her books folded and watched. Jackie would act like a man cat calling a woman. The Spanish class was on the 2nd floor of the school in the area of the gymnasium/pool/lockerrooms. Gym was my next class so from outside the class going downstairs and then to the male locker room she would follow me. A couple times in the lunchroom she came up behind me and slapped me and ran off into a crowd. That last time she did it, I gave it back to her and got her on the ground. I don't think I saw the 'sexual harrassment' as sexual harrassment, and I wasn't traumatized by it. I saw it no different that any other juvenile situation like the cool girls who would taunt the poor smart kid who sat in the front of the class. But everyone is different. And I doubt if I said anything in 1982 that anything would have been done or anything legal against her. Versus how it may be today.

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Like I said earlier, the 15yr old girl and her whole damn family seemed ok with her dating a much older man. I knew it was not ok for psychological social legal etc reasons

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What is the meaning of kid? Why is there a difference in using teen vs adolescent or toddler. Are all of these terms used by people/parents to just mean 'Kid'? Yet we know they are terms created to help chart the growth of the human being. a (kid)teen can work, have sex, drink, join the military, drop out of school. A 'Kid' can be emancipated from their parents at age 14 in some states, 16 in others, 18 in others

And everything about the age varies.

benni said:

And back to the research for a moment.

OF4S said: "In this situation with Kevin, Anthony was in his place, went to Kevins bedroom, and sat on Kevin's bed. So right there, lines were blurred, Kevin picked him up and laid him on the bed again."

The research mentioned an example in which a 14 year old is trying to make a decision about whether to get in a car when a friend is drunk and driving. The 14 year old will not always make the best decisions, because they lack the ability to discern right and wrong in the way that an adult does. The adult would think it through and realize that it is not a good idea, friend or no friend, and may even try to talk their friend out of driving. The 14 year old will look at the idea that if they don't do this, their friend may think they aren't cool, and not want to hang out with them any more, so the 14 year old will decide to get in the car.

At 14, Anthony had a major star giving him attention. At this age, kids are very self-conscious, especially of their bodies. Their self-esteem is really tied to any attention they get, negative or positive. Having Spacey give him attention had to really seem incredible to him. When Spacey invited him to his room to talk, a kid at that age would not be thinking, "Oh, he wants to have sex with me." They would be thinking, "How cool is this!? Spacey wants to talk with me alone! He's giving me all of the attention!" As an adult, looking back and thinking about it, "He was trying to seduce me." As a 14 year old, "Man, how cool is this!" Now, if you have a kid of 14 who has NEVER experienced sex, or been seduced, or even abused, they are not going to automatically think that an adult giving them attention is wanting sex. A child that has been sexually abused, will automatically think of sex, they will be looking for those signs because they know those signs. They may even come on to the adult, because they had been programed to act that way towards an adult at younger ages; BUT it does not mean that is what they want - they are acting in the way they were programed. It is up to the adult to be an adult and gently turn away those advances.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Back then, if a child accused an adult of being sexually abusive towards them, the child was NOT always believed and would even be blamed. I told on an abuser, the juvenile officer asked what I was wearing, "Blue jean shorts, a tank top, and a flannel shirt over the tank top tied at my waist." (These were the clothes bought for me by my aunt. I wore what she bought me. When I would pick out what clothes I wanted to wear it was baggy shirts, baggy sweat shirts, and my aunt would not buy those for me.) The Juvenile officer said, "Well, don't you think that was a little provacative?" I had to look that word up. I didn't even know what it meant. When I did, I was pissed. How is wearing the clothes purchased for me, standing at a kitchen stove, fixing dinner because that was my chore, being provocative? He then went on to say that my abuser was a "fine, upstanding citizen of the community, and was I sure that I wanted to ruin his life with my accusations".

I had ran away prior to this, to get away from the situation. The police officers that came to my friend's house to talk to me, said my aunt told them she thought I was using drugs. I was a straight A student, athletic, on the volleyball, basketball, and track teams. I spoke out against drugs (had family members that were using drugs and I saw what it did to them). So she accused me of using drugs. The cop said, "You don't look like you are on any kind of drugs. You just look like a scared little girl to me." I was 14 years old at this time. When he reached out and grabbed me, I pushed his hand away from me, and said, "Don't you EVER touch me again." I was scared of out of my mind. Terrified in fact. So, going by the reasoning you are using, with what occurred with a 14 year old boy, since he stopped when I pushed his hand away, and since I was wearing "provocative" clothing, then..... I wasn't a kid being taken advantage of by an adult, since I was practically an adult myself?

[Edited 11/4/17 15:08pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

214 said:

benni said:

benni said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well my post was in direct response to PennyPurples idea of kids. Not whether or not sex with a 14yr old is legal.

.

And my post still stands with if you don't know the law, your emotional reaction means nothing. That can be directed at the adult in a situation with a minor too. Like the parents whose emotional reaction is to let teens drink under their roof, what will the law say.

.

You are on point about immoral, inproper and inappropriate. Like the use here of the term pedophile, it did not even exist in the 70s as a 'condition or crime'. But like I pointed out, it wasn't always so. And as I said a few times already, Kevin will have to face the law on what crossed the line.

.

Did Spacey actually know his age? Has he talked more about it? Spacey I mean.

But the law doesn't have a lot to do with morals maplenpg. All of this is wrapped up in morals and how those morals changed over time. Like that a 14yr old girls could be married to 20something yr old man and make a family. Homosexuality was decriminalized in the 70s. It was based on peoples moral interpretations, and that mindset is still strongly here. Prostitution is just as much a moral issue as it is legal.

Actually, there was another man that came forward and said when he first met Stacey, he was 12 years old. At 14, he met Stacey again and Stacey told him that he'd been attracted to him when he was 12, but that he hadn't acted on at that time because he was only 12, but now that he was 14....

No problem at all with this. As I said many times, let the law deal with it and sort it out.
We still have to go by the fact that an allegation still has to be proven before judging a person guilty.

If he is guilty of it, he is guilty. Just like Bill Cosby, if Bill is guilty of all of them then whatever recourse the law has is what it is. But people still have to weigh the differences. If he came onto someone, that doesn't equal sexual predator. Carla Ferrigno(an adult) cannot come on the scene in 2014 and say back in 1969 Bill tried to kiss me and it scarred me for life. And Bill be judged a sexual predator on that.

.

Because in this day and age, all one has to do is be accused of sex with a minor and people do NOT wait to see if it is false or true, the judge, spread the word, and with the internet age that is hell, and condemn. And once that word is out you cannot take it back.

[Edited 11/4/17 14:21pm]

purplefam99 said:

benni said:

For those saying this is a 14 year old guy, and not a kid. When does age matter if sexual advances are made towards them that they do not want? I, as a 52 year old woman, should just suck it up if a man makes unwanted advances towards me, because, obviously as a mother, I know about sex? So, knowing about sex, or even being sexually curious, makes it okay to have someone make unwanted advances towards them? Now, keep in mind, that this kid was picked up and carried to the bed and Spacey laid on top of him. The kid pushed Spacey away and left. The fact that the kid pushed Spacey away says this was NOT WANTED and left, that the advances were made without the kids approval. But, we should say that this is okay because he is 14 and curious sexually?

Do those of you defending this, honestly think that having something like that happen to you, something you do not want, would not have an impact on you? It does have an impact on you, because you become scared and confused, "What is this guy doing? I don't want this. Is he going to force me?" Afterwards, you blame yourself, "Did I do something, say something, that made him think that was okay?" Then you feel ashamed, "I can't believe that happened. Does everyone know? Did he brag about what he did to me? Did he say I wanted it?" When you carry that crap around inside of you, it eats away at you. It DOES effect you, your relationships, your level of ability to trust. Add to the fact that this was a famous guy, big in Hollywood, at which you are trying to make a name for yourself, to start a career, and this man has the ability to break you and keep you from having a career if this comes out.

I can't believe anyone is excusing this, and trying to devalue the claims just because the kid was 14 years old.

Agree!!

will u stop stalking my conversations lol passive aggressive

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

why did this become about you

let the discussion continue

again I don't tip toe because of sensitivity, so just ignore my post (directly and indirectly) why is this so hard?

I’ll comment and speak up and out as I see fit!!

Then don't cry when I come for you and you feel I'm being 'testy'

If you can handle the heat, come on into the kitchen

OldFriends4Sale said:

benni said:

Also, regarding women getting married at 14 way back when: Back then, infant deaths were high. An older man often chose a woman of that age, because biologically she was fertile for many more years than a woman of 25 to 35. Since the risk of infant mortality was high, they needed someone that was young and fertile to increase the chances of having many sons that would reach working ages. And back then, times were harder. A young girl often took on duties of the household and caring for their younger sibings, because it was expected of them. Every one in the household had to do their part in order for the family to survive. So a young girl of 14, would "seem" mature because she had been placed in a role of responsibility. However, that does not mean that mentally, emotionally, she was ready for a relationship with an older man. BUT since it was expected, required even some times to make those family alliances, the girl would do what was expected of her. Tell me, were boys of 14 married off back then? No, they were expected to stay on the farm, providing labor for a few more years before they went off on their own or got married. So, you cannot use those eras as proof that KIDS are more mature because back then, the girls got married at 14.

Benni, I already pointed out the same reasons why people got married at such young ages. I already said all those things. Along with the fact that for a long time, common women had not much other options of life outside of being a mother. (teacher/nurse/nun)-were the other smaller options.

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Yes I can actually use this because they had to be adult.

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Do we wish and hope that the world can be a better place where children are not living in famine and areas were there is war and dictatorships etc yes of course, but that is not the case for a lot of people. There are two many people raising children that are not aware of the realities of life. When school girls as young as 12 are giving blo jobs to their boyfriends in school and being trade for alchohol and cigarettes, there is a serious problem in parents not being adult enough to talk to their 'kids' about sex. Because the reality is 'kids' start looking and experimenting early. Whether on their own or with others. People wanting little Becky to have a real childhood, is not stopping real life from finding Becky. With the advent of the cyberworld children are thrust into an adult world.

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My point of bringing that up was that at one time not to long ago, there was no moral or legal issue.

My mother by the age of 13 could cook the family dinner, by 14 she had her own little orchard her dad gave her and she learned how to make wine. And she knew how to sell it and who to sell it to. She knew how to do things on the farm, that people pay to get training to do now at 18+.

.

And 30yr olds are not even mature about sex and relationships. That's why a lot of our societies problem revolve around sex and relationships. People get married all the time who really are not mature enough to be married, let alone have children. Look at the section of the Welfare population in certain states where children are born into situation unsuitable for an adult much less a baby. And the government helps by giving them money.

[Edited 11/4/17 15:02pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

About 15+ yrs ago, I was a part of a community function/gathering that met weekly. So you got to know the people well. There was a woman who had 1 boy and 3 girls. The eldest girl was maybe around my age, the youngest 15.

All the of the girls looked like grown women. The looked the age of the eldest sister who was around 25ish at the time. The girls were stacked, like they took hormones or something. You just would not know the ages unless you were told. And still might not believe it. They dressed like grown women too.

I was friends with the eldest daughter. One Sunday I got a call from their house, and it was the middle sister. Make a long story short, the 15yr old was attracted to me and wanted to date me.
I was shocked and repulsed at how easily they were ok and normal about it. Like they dated older men all the time. The next time I saw the mother, I talked to her about it. And the mother was like 'hey they are mature and it's not a big problem etc etc'

.

The world ain't so black n white about this stuff.

Fresh out of college I worked phones at night for a business. I had a coworker that had a daughter that was 15. Well she calls one night and starts chatting. I chatted for a little she was saying how life was tough. Then she goes into her mom doesn't care if I date her and I can come and meet her, take her out and do whatever I want. Even if given the green light I said no!!! My life is usually a lot of turmoil and I'm proud I made the decision. It would have backfired and I would have gotten in trouble.

Oh hell yes, it would have backfired.

I said in another post that I got attacked for, that parents have to talk about this stuff with their children. Boys and girls. The fact that some here took that to mean 'Are you saying they asked for it'? Shows that adults are not realistic about this stuff. To argue that you should talk to your children about where they go, not going into bedrooms and laying on beds and doing certain things without knowing consequences, tells me adults are still not adult enough to deal with sex.

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Then don't cry when I come for you and you feel I'm being 'testy'

If you can handle the heat, come on into the kitchen

I have not shed a tear.

you remember that right, when I posted something and you got all offended and felt I was being 'testy'?

moving along

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

you remember that right, when I posted something and you got all offended and felt I was being 'testy'?

moving along

Telling you u were testy was not crying. Are you trying to make me cry? Is that your hope? I’m sorry that Kevin Spacey has turned out to be a perve, It seems as if that it what you might need to hear. And perhaps a good cry about it will help you get your sad out. Peace with you truly.

lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Fresh out of college I worked phones at night for a business. I had a coworker that had a daughter that was 15. Well she calls one night and starts chatting. I chatted for a little she was saying how life was tough. Then she goes into her mom doesn't care if I date her and I can come and meet her, take her out and do whatever I want. Even if given the green light I said no!!! My life is usually a lot of turmoil and I'm proud I made the decision. It would have backfired and I would have gotten in trouble.

Oh hell yes, it would have backfired.

I said in another post that I got attacked for, that parents have to talk about this stuff with their children. Boys and girls. The fact that some here took that to mean 'Are you saying they asked for it'? Shows that adults are not realistic about this stuff. To argue that you should talk to your children about where they go, not going into bedrooms and laying on beds and doing certain things without knowing consequences, tells me adults are still not adult enough to deal with sex.

I have a friend who worked at ihop and he met a girl there and he was in mid 20's and she was 17 going on 18. Parents approved. Then they decided they didn't approve and now he is on the sex offenders list! That is a little different than Spacey. I have another friend who was wreckless and was boinking someone at 16 he was in 30s, they are now happily married with a few kids. I thought it was insane though and the risk outweighs any reward. Plus I tend to like cougars anyway!

The age of consent is the age at which a person is considered to be legally competent to consent to sexual acts, and is thus the minimum age of a person with whom another person is legally permitted to engage in sexual activity. The distinguishing aspect of the age of consent laws is that the person below the minimum age is regarded as the victim, and their sex partner as the offender. The purpose of setting an age of consent is to protect an underage person from sexual advances by mature age persons.

The term age of consent rarely appears in legal statutes. Generally, a law will instead establish the age below which it is illegal to engage in sexual activity with that person. It has sometimes been used with other meanings, such as the age at which a person becomes competent to consent to marriage,^[2] but the meaning given above is the one now generally understood. It should not be confused with the age of majority, age of criminal responsibility, the voting age, the drinking age, the driving age, etc.

Age of consent laws vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction,^[1] though most jurisdictions set the age of consent in the range 14 to 18. The laws may also vary by the type of sexual act, the gender of the participants, or other considerations, such as involving a position of trust; some jurisdictions may also make allowances for minors engaged in sexual acts with each other, rather than a single age. Charges and penalties resulting from a breach of these laws may range from a misdemeanor, such as corruption of a minor, to what is popularly called statutory rape (which is considered equivalent to rape, both in severity and sentencing).

There are many "grey areas" in this area of law, some regarding unspecific and untried legislation, others brought about by debates regarding changing societal attitudes, and others due to conflicts between federal and state laws. These factors all make age of consent an often confusing subject, and a topic of highly charged debates

interesting stuff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

The American colonies followed the English tradition, and the law was more of a guide. For example, Mary Hathaway (Virginia, 1689) was only 9 when she was married to William Williams.^[6] Sir Edward Coke (England, 17th century) "made it clear that the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband's estate was 9 even though her husband be only four years old."^[

In Christian societies, sex outside marriage was forbidden. Older children were often punished themselves for being complicit in sexual interaction with an adult.^{[citation needed]} Until the late 18th century, there was little understanding of childhood as a concept, and children were seen as "little adults". Indeed, prior to the 12th century, there was virtually no notion of childhood at all.^[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

Several Western countries have raised their ages of consent recently. These include Canada (in 2008 - from 14 to 16); and in Europe, Iceland (in 2007 - from 14 to 15), Lithuania (in 2010 - from 14 to 16), Croatia (in 2013 - from 14 to 15), and Spain (in 2015 - from 13 to 16).

The International Criminal Court Statute does not provide a specific age of consent in its rape/sexual violence statute, but makes reference to sexual acts committed against persons "incapable of giving genuine consent"; and the explicative footnote states, "It is understood that a person may be incapable of giving genuine consent if affected by natural, induced or age-related incapacity."

Sexual relations with a person under the age of consent is a crime in most countries. Jurisdictions use a variety of terms for the offense, including child sexual abuse, statutory rape, illegal carnal knowledge, corruption of a minor,^[1] besides others.

The enforcement practices of age-of-consent laws vary depending on the social sensibilities of the particular culture (see above). Often, enforcement is not exercised to the letter of the law, with legal action being taken only when a sufficiently socially-unacceptable age gap exists between the two individuals, or if the perpetrator is in a position of power over the minor (e.g., a teacher, minister, or doctor). The sex of each participant can also influence perceptions of an individual's guilt and therefore enforcement.

The threshold age for engaging in sexual activity varies between jurisdictions (see below). Most jurisdictions have set a fixed age of consent.^[26] However, some jurisdictions permit sex with a person after their puberty, such as Yemen, but only in marriage. Ages can also vary based on the type of calendar used, such as the Lunar calendar,^[27] how birth dates in leap years are handled, or even the method by which birth date is calculated

The age of consent is a legal barrier to the minor's ability to consent and therefore obtaining consent is not in general a defense to having sexual relations with a person under the prescribed age, for example:

Reasonable belief that the victim is over the age of consent

In some jurisdictions it is a defense if the accused can show that he or she reasonably believed the victim was over the age of consent. However, where such a defense is provided, it normally applies only when the victim is close to the age of consent or the accused can show due diligence in determining the age of the victim (e.g. an underage person who used a fake identification document claiming to be of legal age).^[29]

Marriage

In most jurisdictions, age of consent laws do not apply if the parties are legally married to each other.^{[citation needed]}

Close-in-age exemptions

Some jurisdictions have laws explicitly allowing sexual acts with minors under the age of consent if their partner is close in age to them. For instance, in Canada, the age of consent is 16, but there are two close-in-age exemptions: sex with minors aged 14–15 is permitted if the partner is less than five years older, and sex with minors aged 12–13 is permitted if the partner is less than two years older.^[30] Other countries state that the sexual conduct with the minor is not to be punished if the partners are of a similar age and development: for instance, the age of consent in Finland is 16, but the law states that the act will not be punished if "there is no great difference in the ages or the mental and physical maturity of the persons involved".^[31] Another approach takes the form of a stipulation that sexual intercourse between a minor and an adult is legal under the condition that the latter does not exceed a certain age. For example, the age of consent in the US state of Delaware is 18, but it is allowed for teenagers aged 16 and 17 to engage in sexual intercourse as long as the older partner is younger than 30.^[32] In Slovenia, the age of consent is 15, but the law requires that there be "a marked discrepancy between the maturity of the perpetrator and that of the victim".^[33]

Homosexual and heterosexual age discrepancies

Some jurisdictions, such as the Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Chile, Paraguay and Suriname have a higher age of consent for same-sex sexual activity. In both the United Kingdom and Western Australia, for example, the age of consent was originally 21 for same-sex sexual activity between males (with no laws regarding lesbian sexual activities), while it was 16 for heterosexual sexual activity; this is no longer the case.^[34] However, such discrepancies are increasingly being challenged. In Canada, the age of consent for anal sex is officially higher at 18 years, compared with 16 years for vaginal and oral sex.^[35][36] In the Canadian provinces of British Columbia, Nova Scotia, Alberta, Ontario and Quebec, this discrepancy has been declared unconstitutional by courts.^[37][38][39]

Gender-age differentials

In some jurisdictions (such as Indonesia^[40]), there are different ages of consent for heterosexual sexual activity that are based on the gender of each person. In countries where there are gender-age differentials, the age of consent may be higher for girls—for example in Papua New Guinea, where the age of consent for heterosexual sex is 16 for girls and 14 for boys,^[41] or they may be higher for males, such as in Indonesia, where males must be 19 years old and females must be 16 years old.^[40] There are also numerous jurisdictions—such as Kuwait^[42] and the Palestinian Territories^[43]—in which marriage laws govern the gender-age differential. In these jurisdictions, it is illegal to have sexual intercourse outside of marriage, so the de facto age of consent is the marriageable age. In Kuwait, this means that boys must be at least 17 and girls at least 15 years old.

Position of authority/trust

In most jurisdictions where the age of consent is below 18 (such as England and Wales^[44]), in cases where a person aged 18 or older is in a position of trust over a person under 18, the age of consent usually rises to 18 or higher. Examples of such positions of trust include relationships between teachers and students. For example, in England and Wales the age of consent is 16, but if the person is a student of the older person it becomes 18.

Circumstances of the relationship

In several jurisdictions, it is illegal to engage in sexual activity with a person under a certain age under certain circumstances regarding the relationship in question, such as if it involves taking advantage of or corrupting the morals of the young person. For example, while the age of consent is 14 in Germany and 16 in Canada, it is illegal in both countries to engage in sexual activity with a person under 18 if the activity exploits the younger person. Another example is in Mexico, where there is a crime called "estupro" defined as sexual activity with a person over the age of consent but under a certain age limit (generally 18) in which consent of the younger person was obtained through seduction and/or deceit. In Pennsylvania, the age of consent is officially 16, but if the older partner is 18 or older, he/she may still be prosecuted for corruption of minors if he/she corrupts or tends to corrupt the morals of the younger person.

Gender of participants

There is debate as to whether the gender of those involved should lead to different treatment of the sexual encounter, in law or in practice. Traditionally, age of consent laws regarding vaginal intercourse were often meant to protect the chastity of unmarried girls.^[7] Many feminists and social campaigners in the 1970s have objected to the social importance of virginity, and have also attempted to change the stereotypes of female passivity and male aggression; demanding that the law protect children from exploitation regardless of their gender, rather than dealing with concerns of chastity. This has led to gender-neutral laws in many jurisdictions.^[7] On the other hand, there is an opposing view which argues that the act of vaginal intercourse is an "unequal act" for males and females, due to issues such as pregnancy, increased risk of STDs,^[47] and risk of physical injury if the girl is too young and not physically ready. In the US, in Michael M. v. Superior Ct.450 U.S. 464 (1981) it was ruled that the double standard of offering more legal protection to girls is valid because "the Equal Protection Clause does not mean that the physiological differences between men and women must be disregarded".^[48]

Traditionally, many age of consent laws dealt primarily with men engaging in sexual acts with underage girls and boys (the latter acts often falling under sodomy and buggery laws). This means that in some legal systems, women having sexual contact with underage youth were rarely acknowledged. For example, until 2000, in the UK, before the Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 2000, there was no statutory age of consent for lesbian sex.^[49] In New Zealand, before 2005, there were no age of consent laws dealing with women having sex with underage boys.^[50] Previously, in Fiji, male offenders of child sexual abuse could receive up to life imprisonment, whilst female offenders would receive up to seven years.^[51] Situations like these have been attributed to societal views on traditional gender roles, and to constructs of male sexuality and female sexuality; according to E Martellozzo, "[V]iewing females as perpetrators of sexual abuse goes against every stereotype that society has of women: women as mothers and caregivers and not as people who abuse and harm".^[52]Alissa Nutting argues that women are not acknowledged as perpetrators of sex crimes because society does not accept that women have an autonomous sexuality of their own

SuperFurryAnimal said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Oh hell yes, it would have backfired.

I said in another post that I got attacked for, that parents have to talk about this stuff with their children. Boys and girls. The fact that some here took that to mean 'Are you saying they asked for it'? Shows that adults are not realistic about this stuff. To argue that you should talk to your children about where they go, not going into bedrooms and laying on beds and doing certain things without knowing consequences, tells me adults are still not adult enough to deal with sex.

I have a friend who worked at ihop and he met a girl there and he was in mid 20's and she was 17 going on 18. Parents approved. Then they decided they didn't approve and now he is on the sex offenders list! That is a little different than Spacey. I have another friend who was wreckless and was boinking someone at 16 he was in 30s, they are now happily married with a few kids. I thought it was insane though and the risk outweighs any reward. Plus I tend to like cougars anyway!

the laws get sketchy.

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depending on what state your in, a guy can be 17 and his girlfriend 15, but once he turns 18 it is illegal. And he can be prosecuted.

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I worked with a lady who was in her 30s. And there was something about her that screamed 'she was molested' I just felt really sorry for her. I remember when she told us she had a 'boyfriend' and we were a bit shocked for some reason. You'd just have to see/know her to understand. And then when her boyfriend came to visit her on her lunch break, ... he reminded me of the Winter Warlock from Santa Claus Is Coming to Town, just wet. Like he was 70 or 80 years old. I just never asked any questions after that.

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I posted some stuff that goes along with this discussion. And it just backs up what I was saying. Emotions do not overrule facts/the Law. This stuff is just not black n white like people try to assume it is.

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And there is no doubt that Kevin Spacey will be judged differently than a man who made an advance at a girl, even in 2017.