Graycap23 said:

phunkdaddy said:

Well time to get corrective lens bro.

As I said in my previous post there is a list of All Pros and

Hall of Famers that never won championships. I don't think people would'

say Karl Malone, Barkley, or Ewing didn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame

because they never won an NBA title. Basketball is a team sport as noted here

by others in this post, A.I never had another top tier player to team up with

him during his career. Continue to feel the way you feel but your opinion is

short sighted as it comes. There is even a video out there with MJ congratulating

Iverson for his selection while they were riding an airplane.

I'm not mad. Congrats to A.I.......but he still isn't my type of player.

TonyVanDam said:

duccichucka said:

WHAT?!

Iverson had a spotty jumper. He was too streaky to be compared with Curry. Did you see the
stats I provided for him? He had a 43% field goal percentage and shot 31% from beyond the
arc. He is not on Curry's level at all.

I agree. But I still stand by my words in the previous post. I'm convince that Iverson would have a better career for a litle guy if he had taken basketball practices more seriously. I dare to say that Curry has definitely taken practices seriously his whole life and it's paying off. You notice that Curry is a deadly 3-point shooter, right? Well that should've been Iverson years ago.

First of all - those ESPN clips of Iverson talking about practice are ALWAYS taken out of context.
It is a canard that Iverson didn't practice hard. He was talking about how sometimes, what hap-
pens in practice is not as important what happens in the game. He was not talking about not
caring about practice. You're under ESPN's spell.

Second of all - Iverson was not as gifted a shooter that Curry is. MJ practiced hard but he wasn't
the shooter Curry is. Reggie Miller practiced hard but he wasn't the shooter Curry is. Craig Hodges
practiced hard but he wasn't the shooter Iverson is. To question Iverson's jumper because you're
under the impression that 1) he didn't practice hard and 2) he didn't have the jump shooting skills
that Curry possesses is not fair. Iverson could've practiced for years; but at some point, there
must be something said about talent, not solely hard work.

Remember, Iverson was barely a six footer. Curry is a legitimate 6'3/6'4.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

But he never met a team that complemented his style and was competent and/or talented
enough to win a championship. You aren't going to win a ring with Eric Fucking Snow and
Aaon Whodat McKie. I mean, who on that NBA finals team was really good?

True.......but what is his excuse in the Olympics? College?

Are you kidding me?!

Pull up the roster for his Georgetown teams - Jerome Williams and Othella Harrington weren't
total scrubs but face it: they were still scrubs. And they are the only two players on those rosters
who stand out. There was nobody on Iverson's Georgetown teams that was going to help him
win a championship.

In the 2004 Olympics, I'd like to see you make the argument that Iverson's play alone was a
factor in winning the bronze, not the gold.

A player's legacy should not only be measured in championships; you're being very shortsighted
here.

[Edited 4/13/16 10:40am]

Graycap23 said:

phunkdaddy said:

Total bs

I have eyes and I see results.......Dude never won a single thing.

That says it all.

This is a bad argument. Like I alluded to earlier: there's this dumb American concept that
reduces everything down to either winning or losing when making an attempt to judge the
merits or success of someone's work and/or efforts.

TonyVanDam said:

uPtoWnNY said:

It's not the NBA Hall of Fame, but the Basketball Hall of Fame.

That is correct. And its amazing that Bill Laimbeer & Robert Horry are not in the Basketball HOF yet.

I agree with Uptown; but Laimbeer does not deserve to be in the HoF, unless, of course,
you can make the case.

Regarding Horry: that is really interesting. Can you make the case for him too?!

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

I have eyes and I see results.......Dude never won a single thing.

That says it all.

This is a bad argument. Like I alluded to earlier: there's this dumb American concept that
reduces everything down to either winning or losing when making an attempt to judge the
merits or success of someone's work and/or efforts.

Dude played street ball............in the NBA.

Nothing that u tell me is going to change those facts.

Graycap23 said:

phunkdaddy said:

Well time to get corrective lens bro.

As I said in my previous post there is a list of All Pros and

Hall of Famers that never won championships. I don't think people would'

say Karl Malone, Barkley, or Ewing didn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame

because they never won an NBA title. Basketball is a team sport as noted here

by others in this post, A.I never had another top tier player to team up with

him during his career. Continue to feel the way you feel but your opinion is

short sighted as it comes. There is even a video out there with MJ congratulating

Iverson for his selection while they were riding an airplane.

I'm not mad. Congrats to A.I.......but he still isn't my type of player.

That's all you have to say, dude. I think you do make a mistake in viewing his career as
an "it's all about me" type of player, but you've yet to provide a counter-argument that the
lack of offensive talent on his 76ers teams required him to jack up some bad shots. I re-
member seeing some games where Iverson would give up the rock to a player in the post;
the player had no offensive presence and would give the ball back to Iverson with a "dude,
you fuckin' shoot it, not me" and Iverson would.

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

I'm not mad. Congrats to A.I.......but he still isn't my type of player.

That's all you have to say, dude. I think you do make a mistake in viewing his career as
an "it's all about me" type of player, but you've yet to provide a counter-argument that the
lack of offensive talent on his 76ers teams required him to jack up some bad shots. I re-
member seeing some games where Iverson would give up the rock to a player in the post;
the player had no offensive presence and would give the ball back to Iverson with a "dude,
you fuckin' shoot it, not me" and Iverson would.

I remember sitting at the draft telling my boy at the time........."this guy will never win at the NBA level level", and I was 100% correct.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

This is a bad argument. Like I alluded to earlier: there's this dumb American concept that
reduces everything down to either winning or losing when making an attempt to judge the
merits or success of someone's work and/or efforts.

Dude played street ball............in the NBA.

Nothing that u tell me is going to change those facts.

And like I alluded to earlier: there's this dumbass American concept used by dumbasses that
reduces everything down to winning and/or losing.

Dr J played a street ball kind of style. Do you dislike him too? Wasn't Archibald, Chamberlain,
and Jabbar famous for their street ball style? They played in the NBA too. Get outta here, Gray.

You even misrepresented his stats!

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

I'm not mad. Congrats to A.I.......but he still isn't my type of player.

That's all you have to say, dude. I think you do make a mistake in viewing his career as
an "it's all about me" type of player, but you've yet to provide a counter-argument that the
lack of offensive talent on his 76ers teams required him to jack up some bad shots. I re-
member seeing some games where Iverson would give up the rock to a player in the post;
the player had no offensive presence and would give the ball back to Iverson with a "dude,
you fuckin' shoot it, not me" and Iverson would.

A.I. averaged 26 points a game................on 25 shots a game.

Anyone can do that.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

That's all you have to say, dude. I think you do make a mistake in viewing his career as
an "it's all about me" type of player, but you've yet to provide a counter-argument that the
lack of offensive talent on his 76ers teams required him to jack up some bad shots. I re-
member seeing some games where Iverson would give up the rock to a player in the post;
the player had no offensive presence and would give the ball back to Iverson with a "dude,
you fuckin' shoot it, not me" and Iverson would.

A.I. averaged 26 points a game................on 25 shots a game.

Anyone can do that.

Who did?

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

A.I. averaged 26 points a game................on 25 shots a game.

Anyone can do that.

Who did?

lol...............no one took that many shots a game.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

That's all you have to say, dude. I think you do make a mistake in viewing his career as
an "it's all about me" type of player, but you've yet to provide a counter-argument that the
lack of offensive talent on his 76ers teams required him to jack up some bad shots. I re-
member seeing some games where Iverson would give up the rock to a player in the post;
the player had no offensive presence and would give the ball back to Iverson with a "dude,
you fuckin' shoot it, not me" and Iverson would.

I remember sitting at the draft telling my boy at the time........."this guy will never win at the NBA level level", and I was 100% correct.

Oh, I see: you have a crystal ball! Who else can you look into the distant future and augur
who won't win a championship?

It's not all about 'chips. But, you are welcome to keep your short sightedness as has been
mentioned by others in this thread previously!

AI jacked up some bad shots. He played iso-ball a lot. But I would jack up bad shots and
play isolation if I had a team full of NBA castaways and scrubs too. Did AI slap your ma-dukes
or something?

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

Who did?

lol...............no one took that many shots a game.

You just said anyone could.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

Who did?

lol...............no one took that many shots a game.

Hahahahaha! I just realized that your argument here is internally inconsistent:

If anyone could but no one else did, how do you know anyone else could?

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

lol...............no one took that many shots a game.

You just said anyone could.

I'll restate my point.

Any NBA player who averages 25 shots a game can average 1 point per attempt.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

You just said anyone could.

I'll restate my point.

Any NBA player who averages 25 shots a game can average 1 point per attempt.

And I'll restate my point:

You don't know that because, according to you, no one else did. Therefore, you are talking
outta yer butt until you show us another player who averaged 25 shots a game averaging
1 point per attempt and then place them in a similar context that AI was in where he was
asked to take 25 shots a game.

Get outta here.

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

I'll restate my point.

Any NBA player who averages 25 shots a game can average 1 point per attempt.

And I'll restate my point:

You don't know that because, according to you, no one else did. Therefore, you are talking
outta yer butt until you show us another player who averaged 25 shots a game averaging
1 point per attempt and then place them in a similar context that AI was in where he was
asked to take 25 shots a game.

Get outta here.

Lol............I forgot you aren't capable of a civil conversation.

Have a good day.

This will be my last conversation with you.

Allen Iverson

Iverson took 19,906 NBA shots and missed 11,439 of them, giving ‘The Answer” a career field goal percentage of 42.5, lowest on this list. Iverson still averaged 26.7 points per game, but think how good he could have been if he liked to practice?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/10-players-who-have-missed-the-most-shots-in-nba-history.html/?a=viewall

[Edited 4/13/16 11:52am]

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

And I'll restate my point:

You don't know that because, according to you, no one else did. Therefore, you are talking
outta yer butt until you show us another player who averaged 25 shots a game averaging
1 point per attempt and then place them in a similar context that AI was in where he was
asked to take 25 shots a game.

Get outta here.

Lol............I forgot you aren't capable of a civil conversation.

Have a good day.

This will be my last conversation with you.

Allen Iverson

Iverson took 19,906 NBA shots and missed 11,439 of them, giving ‘The Answer” a career field goal percentage of 42.5, lowest on this list. Iverson still averaged 26.7 points per game, but think how good he could have been if he liked to practice?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/10-players-who-have-missed-the-most-shots-in-nba-history.html/?a=viewall

[Edited 4/13/16 11:52am]

. . . and I forgot that you aren't capable of an intelligent conversation.

First of all: I already established Iverson's woeful shooting percentage in my first post. Se-
condly, you're framing those bad shots totally wrong! If you're asked to take on the full load
of the offense and your teammates are reluctant to shoot, then shoot away. And, if you're
not a talented jump shooter, you're going to miss a lot of shots! We've already acknowledged
that he was an iso-player, but if he had the right team surrounding him (Larry Hughes? Pfffft),
then maybe he could've developed into a better offensive player with better stats.

I got into a debate here recently about NFL quarterbacks where I pointed out that John Elway's
stats are mediocre. But, we discovered that stats only tell a part of a player's story. Your in-
ability to see this and place Iverson's awful offensive efficiency into its proper context is why
your argument falls flat. In other words, you can't measure or quantify "heart."

duccichucka said:

TonyVanDam said:

I agree. But I still stand by my words in the previous post. I'm convince that Iverson would have a better career for a litle guy if he had taken basketball practices more seriously. I dare to say that Curry has definitely taken practices seriously his whole life and it's paying off. You notice that Curry is a deadly 3-point shooter, right? Well that should've been Iverson years ago.

First of all - those ESPN clips of Iverson talking about practice are ALWAYS taken out of context.
It is a canard that Iverson didn't practice hard. He was talking about how sometimes, what hap-
pens in practice is not as important what happens in the game. He was not talking about not
caring about practice. You're under ESPN's spell.

Second of all - Iverson was not as gifted a shooter that Curry is. MJ practiced hard but he wasn't
the shooter Curry is. Reggie Miller practiced hard but he wasn't the shooter Curry is. Craig Hodges
practiced hard but he wasn't the shooter Iverson is. To question Iverson's jumper because you're
under the impression that 1) he didn't practice hard and 2) he didn't have the jump shooting skills
that Curry possesses is not fair. Iverson could've practiced for years; but at some point, there
must be something said about talent, not solely hard work.

Remember, Iverson was barely a six footer. Curry is a legitimate 6'3/6'4.

Disney/ESPN's lousy video editing has nothing to do with it. I remember what Iverson said years ago. I understood it then THE same way that I [KEY WORD: "I"] understand it now that Iverson did not take the value of basketball practices serious. You are more than welcome to respectfully disagree with me. But I still stand by my words.

duccichucka said:

TonyVanDam said:

That is correct. And its amazing that Bill Laimbeer & Robert Horry are not in the Basketball HOF yet.

I agree with Uptown; but Laimbeer does not deserve to be in the HoF, unless, of course,
you can make the case.

Regarding Horry: that is really interesting. Can you make the case for him too?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Laimbeer
http://www.nba.com/histor...r_bio.html

How does Bill Laimbeer, a 4 time NBA All-Star & 2 time NBA Champion, get denied a place in the Basketball HOF?

TonyVanDam said:

duccichucka said:

First of all - those ESPN clips of Iverson talking about practice are ALWAYS taken out of context.
It is a canard that Iverson didn't practice hard. He was talking about how sometimes, what hap-
pens in practice is not as important what happens in the game. He was not talking about not
caring about practice. You're under ESPN's spell.

Second of all - Iverson was not as gifted a shooter that Curry is. MJ practiced hard but he wasn't
the shooter Curry is. Reggie Miller practiced hard but he wasn't the shooter Curry is. Craig Hodges
practiced hard but he wasn't the shooter Iverson is. To question Iverson's jumper because you're
under the impression that 1) he didn't practice hard and 2) he didn't have the jump shooting skills
that Curry possesses is not fair. Iverson could've practiced for years; but at some point, there
must be something said about talent, not solely hard work.

Remember, Iverson was barely a six footer. Curry is a legitimate 6'3/6'4.

Disney/ESPN's lousy video editing has nothing to do with it. I remember what Iverson said years ago. I understood it then THE same way that I [KEY WORD: "I"] understand it now that Iverson did not take the value of basketball practices serious. You are more than welcome to respectfully disagree with me. But I still stand by my words.

But do you remember all that he said during that press conference? Go here and read it
and you'll see that his quote about practice is taken out of context. He was simply stating
that pressing him about practice was not the kind of question a franchise player needs to
worry about or even entertain. He was not saying that he did not take the value of basket-
ball practice seriously; he was wondering why the franchise player is being hounded by
questions about him missing one practice.

However, I did read an article where Larry Brown says that Iverson "has to come to
practice." So, even though Iverson's quote is how I interpret it above and what I think
Iverson is saying, it appears that Brown's perception was different. So, you may be
right about it, even though, again, Iverson seems to disagree.

Great player and worthy of the HOF, but very overrated, IMO. Like other flashy scorers such as Maravich, Melo, and Kobe, his reputation far exceeds his actual ability. He's somewhere in the 50-70 range, IMO.

Moonbeam said:

Great player and worthy of the HOF, but very overrated, IMO. Like other flashy scorers such as Maravich, Melo, and Kobe, his reputation far exceeds his actual ability. He's somewhere in the 50-70 range, IMO.

Agreed

Moonbeam said:

Great player and worthy of the HOF, but very overrated, IMO. Like other flashy scorers such as Maravich, Melo, and Kobe, his reputation far exceeds his actual ability. He's somewhere in the 50-70 range, IMO.

What other overrated players are in the NBA HoF?

I've never heard of players who can score at will like A.I be called overrated but then again this is the same message board where a few people pout that LeBron is
overrated all because of comparisons to Kobe and Jordan.

phunkdaddy said:

I've never heard of players who can score at will like A.I be called overrated but then again this is the same message board where a few people pout that LeBron is overrated all because of comparisons to Kobe and Jordan.

Score at will?

Dude ave 25 shots a game.....for only 26 points.

Any starting NBA player could do that.

phunkdaddy said:

I've never heard of players who can score at will like A.I be called overrated but then again this is the same message board where a few people pout that LeBron is overrated all because of comparisons to Kobe and Jordan.

Yeah, and some people in this same message board think that just because they think "anyone"
could do what Iverson did without showing who did, then that still means that anyone could.

We usually refer to these people as "dolts" who fall prey to a fallacy of composition: but again,
this is what dum-dums do.

Anyways, I really enjoyed watching Iverson play. He gave it his all and dude was absolutely
fearless. I've never seen anyone play the way he did; carrying a team with no offensive help
with a ooach asking you to actually shoot as needed to help the team win because of its offen-
sive deficiencies.

duccichucka said:

Unfortunately Larry Brown treated the Sixers like he was coaching a college
basketball team. It's necessary to have role players but when your roster is
loaded with the likes of Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, George Lynch, you can't expect
championships. I did like Theo Ratliff a lot before injuries derailed his career. Larry also made the biggest gaffe deciding to draft Larry Hughes over Paul Pierce.

Graycap23 said:

Yet it doesn't happen.
I suppose you slept walk through the games A.I put up higher numbers
and the Sixers still lost because there was simply no talent there kinda like
your favorite player when he had to put up with the likes of Brad Sellers
and Dennis Hopson.