Empress said:

CarrieMpls said:

I most certainly don’t consider the term “bitch” a badge of honor or pride. It’s a derogatory term men use to put women down. When men call another man a “bitch” they are implying they are weak and like a woman, which is supposed to be a bad thing.


I get that some women think they’re taking the word back to turn it into a positive thing, but it doesn’t cut it for me. It’s still a vulgar term.

[Edited 10/2/13 6:17am]

I completely agree with Carrie's comments. Why would anyone want to be called a bitch? It's just another way to make a derogatory comment about someone. It's not cool at all. All these so called "terms of endearment" are bullshit. People who accept these terms are losers IMO.

Hear, hear!

It's rather like the trend to "take back" the N word. It's a nasty, derogatory word I don't care who says it. It demeans the speaker and the object of the expression.

Words definitely have power...they do. If not, there would be no such thing as verbal abuse. It's all about showing respect and graciousness to others. What a nice world it would be if everyone was inclined to do that!

Just another word that others have used to devalue someone. So that someone has decided to embrace it and reshape and use it as shield or sword.

Then again it doesn't really mean anything, sometimes I think people use it because for some strange reason it makes them feel all grown up. It's all so confusing. Personally, it's a fighting word.

tinaz said:

And just for the record... Some of you have done the very same thing that you claim the word 'bitch" has done... calling people "losers" or "idiots", "cunt" and "hoe" is never ok.. Its not right to make a judgement about people then turn around and do the same damn thing your complaining about!.......................................

Who did that?

Uhope said:

JustErin said:

BobGeorge909 said:

JustErin said:

Who did that?

I'm not sure...but I just called someone a nickel. I think she's saying people generally r dismissive and degrading of each other WITHOUT the use of those key words such as bitch, ho, hoe, whore, cunt....or idiot. Believe me...I'm not judging tho...I just called someone a nickel. It's only a monetary amount...nevermind my intent.

Seriously, I can not stand when people say that they do not judge or that judging people is bad.

Everyone does it and not all judgment is bad. It's often what protects us, and many times goes hand in hand with intuition.

Now, of course, judging a person without actually getting a pretty good sense of who they are is what you can consider bad, but that often goes hand in hand with a prejudiced mentality.

I don't think that last post came out quite the way I intended it to. Oh well...I'm going home.

BobGeorge909 said:

Uhope said:

Hear, hear!

It's rather like the trend to "take back" the N word. It's a nasty, derogatory word I don't care who says it. It demeans the speaker and the object of the expression.

Words definitely have power...they do. If not, there would be no such thing as verbal abuse. It's all about showing respect and graciousness to others. What a nice world it would be if everyone was inclined to do that!

yes yes...I understand that your perception trumps the perception of others in every case of its use. The world would be much simpler if the communication worked via a singular perception. Thanks my nickel. [Edited 10/2/13 12:02pm]

Not at all. I just don't see what's so difficult to use words that have commonly understood meanings in the right circumstances. Or what's somehow "empowering" about adopting/adapting what was an insult as some sort of compliment or positive quality. Everyone only has their own perception when listening to another person speak. If a person is referring to someone else as the "b" or "n" word but they REALLY mean it as a term of affection...why not simply use a word that's commonly understood to be a term of affection? Why have anyone guess what you "really" mean?

To me (if they're directed at me or if I hear another referred to as such), the words feel coarse, mean and insulting. Therefore, I'd never use such language against anyone; it feels unkind. I don't think it's out of line to accept that many people feel the same way and to insist on using language you *know* can be offensive is really being disrespectful to them. You seem to have fun playing with language but since I don't enjoy being misunderstood, we obviously are coming from two different perspectives. Which is cool -- as long as we understand each other.

"Nickel"? I guess that's half a "dime" so I'll take what I can get these days.

CarrieMpls said:

I most certainly don’t consider the term “bitch” a badge of honor or pride. It’s a derogatory term men use to put women down. When men call another man a “bitch” they are implying they are weak and like a woman, which is supposed to be a bad thing.


I get that some women think they’re taking the word back to turn it into a positive thing, but it doesn’t cut it for me. It’s still a vulgar term.

[Edited 10/2/13 6:17am]

i've heard plenty of women use it to put other women down

Uhope said:

tinaz said:

And just for the record... Some of you have done the very same thing that you claim the word 'bitch" has done... calling people "losers" or "idiots", "cunt" and "hoe" is never ok.. Its not right to make a judgement about people then turn around and do the same damn thing your complaining about!.......................................

Good point tinaz. I generally do the "calling names" thing only trying to be funny or ironic either you get it or you don't.

BobGeorge909 said:

A nickel is sometimes more or less than a dime...so unless u know my intent, udont know what I mean...which shows that intent plays an important part of word use...u...u...u Lil' nickel. To be clear...my intent is derogatory...but if u'll take what u can get, I'll give u another nickel. There's nothing insulting insinuated in the phrase rosy peach...but if u find me calling u a "rosy peach" pleasant..." "'s included...get with the program, U silly goose(just as demeaning IMO as stupid idiot. In the context of this thread.). If ure blind to someone's intent, ure blind to half the conversation...u silly goose. [Edited 10/2/13 13:45pm] [Edited 10/2/13 13:51pm]

Well, I don't tend to presume derogatory intent on a value-neutral word like "nickel". I definitely make no claim to be a mind-reader. I imagine people mean the words coming out of their mouth (or fingers). Providing meaning/intent (removing the blinders) is the burden of the communicator, not the someone trying to figure out what you "really meant by that". All kinds of drama comes from jumping to conclusions about intent and I am not about that. But if you were intending to insult me, I'm not sure I understand why.

If I said anything to offend you, I do apologize.

Uhope said:

BobGeorge909 said:

Uhope said:

Well, I don't tend to presume derogatory intent on a value-neutral word like "nickel". I definitely make no claim to be a mind-reader. I imagine people mean the words coming out of their mouth (or fingers). Providing meaning/intent (removing the blinders) is the burden of the communicator, not the someone trying to figure out what you "really meant by that". All kinds of drama comes from jumping to conclusions about intent and I am not about that. But if you were intending to insult me, I'm not sure I understand why.

If I said anything to offend you, I do apologize.

I agree... communicators have a responsibility to make their intent clear. The listening end also has a responsibility to determine the intent...no? What helps with that? Body language, general history, personal history, context, tone, facial expressions. Communicating and communicating clearly involves more than words and their definitions. It involves more than how they make u feel. If the listener fails at every avenue to involve the communications that existed beyond the definition of the word...is it solely the speakers fault? If the context, the body language, the personal history, tone, and facial expressions surrounding the word bitch fail to influence the speakers intent, does the listener play a part in that failure despite the speakers efforts, or is that miscommunication solely on the speakers hands? [Edited 10/2/13 14:39pm]

First and foremost -- we don't have any of that with online communication. Emoticons don't really fit the bill. That said, I agree -- all those other things add up to clarity in understanding. I definitely believe in giving others the benefit of the doubt and am not in a hurry to take offense. Hopefully, within a conversation, the two speaking know each other well enough to know what the other means when they use language that might raise eyebrows in other contexts.

However, it is not good to assume that because using certain words/turns of phrase are okay with *us*, it should be okay for everyone else and skip 'em if they can't take a joke. F'rinstance, there is not a female in my personal acquaintance that would view the "b" words as a "badge of pride". Nor are most of the qualities assumed to be associated with the word desirable attributes, in their opinion. For me, hearing it (like hearing the "n" word) feels like a slap. Not positive at all. I would discontinue conversation with anyone using such language with me.

I understand that you and yours have little problem with changing up the meaning or intent of words normally taken to be insults. It's good to know that there are people who feel that way (for whatever reason); just know that there are just as many who are hurt by such language.

[Edited 10/2/13 15:14pm]

BobGeorge909 said:

Obviously the words tend to offend silly. No need to explain that. And it seems obvious this isn't restrained to to online conversations, so that sounds silly. But to be clear, I've been referring to communicating in general. I'm sorry, I thought u may have remembered our last conversation and how I mentioned every "nickel" in this club looking for a dime could have "niggatory" connotations in some circles. I was wrong. I also feel that some words r certain to offend in some circles as you suggest. That's where one uses context and history to determine that. U seemed persistent about it at first but u seem to be digressing about some words having no good use. But what ever...at this point I'm subjecting my selfbto ignoring you...cuz IN MY OPINION...u play naive or stupid just entirely too much...repeatedly...like your last post...hell...I take responsibility for it, for assuming someone is coming to a conversation with a certain amount of knowledge under their belt. My bad Lil nickel. ...it frustrates me and isn't worth further Communicating with you to me.

BobGeorge, I sincerely don't understand your last paragraph. I haven't digressed from any opinion I ever expressed to you on this board. Perhaps I don't have the "certain knowledge" you are referring to -- I honestly haven't been "around" that much.

I'm sorry you're feeling frustrated. It's frustrating to me to see tendencies these days (not just yours) to use expressions invented to demean held up as some sort of compliment or affection. It saddens me to see the amount disrespect disguised as self-expression and freedom...but I'm nobody's language police. It's just not a factor in my every day conversations in real life so threads like these puzzle me, frankly.

I do enjoy your expressions in general on this board and while you may not read mine, I'll continue to read yours.

peace

Uhope said:

I'm sorry I came off that way. I'm probably more like Tempest, where she mentioned earlier in this thread that she was more "black and white, firmly grounded" on various topics. I admit I *am* an absolutist on many things for myself (although I've been known to give in at inopportune times ). Are you familiar with Myers-Briggs personality testing? I am ISTJ all day. But I try never impose my standards onto someone else. I don't think my saying how I feel about things is doing that.

I believe boundaries should be respected by everyone in a civil conversation. If speaking or hearing foul language is overstepping the boundaries of one person, one who values conversation with that would avoid such speech. However, that person doesn't have the right to prevent the other from using such expression. They only have the right to discontinue the conversation/association, if that's how they feel about it. No doubt many do just that regarding various threads on this board; they just don't participate if they don't like the "tone" of the conversation.

If something is good for one but not good for the other, a parting of ways looks to be the only recourse. Otherwise -- who is the one who should compromise?

Uhope said:

I am not feigning naiveté or anything else, I'm just being myself. I really am sorry if that's what you think and it frustrates you, it's not my intent.

I don't judge conversations, in general. People can talk about whatever, however they like. But if the topic on a discussion board is about the use of certain words I think are demeaning to all concerned, I may comment. I assume that's why an OP starts a thread...to get varying viewpoints.

The title of this thread - most of the ladies here do not agree with the "badge of pride" notion. Not only me. I'm just the one still talking. Maybe that's why you seem up in arms.

It's cool. Sometimes, I just like to carry on.

BobGeorge909 said:

Should the phrase "son of a bitch," be graduated to "son of a cunt?" Discuss....

BETTER QUESTION: Why is there always a "son of a bitch" but NEITHER a "daughter of a bitch"?!?

BobGeorge909 said:

Uhope said:

I am not feigning naiveté or anything else, I'm just being myself. I really am sorry if that's what you think and it frustrates you, it's not my intent.

I don't judge conversations, in general. People can talk about whatever, however they like. But if the topic on a discussion board is about the use of certain words I think are demeaning to all concerned, I may comment. I assume that's why an OP starts a thread...to get varying viewpoints.

The title of this thread - most of the ladies here do not agree with the "badge of pride" notion. Not only me. I'm just the one still talking. Maybe that's why you seem up in arms.

It's cool. Sometimes, I just like to carry on.

And every female weighed in?