Tempest said:

*

This niche market will even use phrases like, Well, that's "your truth" or refer to what they personally believe as "my truth". As if we can all have our own truth.

*

Here's a typical conversation:

*

Person A says: Hello, do you believe in God?

*

Person B says: Well, no, I don't. Everyone can believe what they want to believe.

*

Person A says: True, everyone can believe whatever they want to believe but that doesn't make whatever they believe true.

*

Person B (gets restless & says): Everyone has their "own truth". The fact that God doesn't exist is "my truth".

*

Person A says: Truth isn't relative. It's absolute. So, the TRUTH is, God either exists or He doesn't. It cannot be both ways.

*

Person B (gets miffed and says): I believe that everyone has their own truth.

*

Person A says: Well, you can believe that but that doesn't make it true. What you believe may not be true. It may in fact be a lie. If you do not believe in God, that's your belief but not "your truth". You don't own the truth. It is what it is. It's totally illogical and absurd to think that everyone can believe what they want, have totally opposing positions and somehow everyone has THE TRUTH. That's impossible. Logic dictates that everyone cannot have opposing beliefs and everyone believe THE TRUTH at the same time. Truth is not relative.

*

Person B (not grasping the point) says: Well, that's your truth.

*

Person A says: No, the truth is what it is. For example, is grass green or hot pink? Just because you believe that it's HOT PINK, doesn't make it HOT PINK. The TRUTH is, grass is green. If we're all looking at green grass and 50% of the people decide that they want it to be HOT PINK, the TRUTH is that it's green (not hot pink). So, it cannot be green and hot pink at the same time. Nor, can we all believe different things about the color of the grass and they all be TRUE.

*
Person B gets miffed and walks away.

*

End of conversation.

[Edited 8/15/13 11:31am]

Tempest said:

RodeoSchro said:

Not only that, but they always provide things that can be completely disproven.

True. When people have no use for the truth (or concrete), they have no use for research either. In other words, they don't care to disprove or put forth any effort to find out what's true. Therefore, all is well to the niche market as long as they just "believe". Somehow for them, if they just "believe" something, that makes it "true".

[Edited 8/15/13 10:55am]

LOL, you are right, that is funny. And it's even funnier when someone does do the research, finds out the claim/event/whatever is completely false, and then gets labelled a "clown" for disproving that which the OP wanted so badly to believe in.

Oh well!

Tempest said:

Graycap23 said:

Lol..............like the Bible.

The difference is, the Bible/Jesus/God is unable to be concretely proven or disproven.

Not true with all the whackjob claims like Valiant Thor, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. and etc.

Tempest said:

Graycap23 said:

Out of curiosity, what/who is a found Soul?

*

Those who personally meet and accept THE TRUTH (the Messiah):

*

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

Ok.

Tempest said:

*

This niche market will even use phrases like, Well, that's "your truth" or refer to what they personally believe as "my truth". As if we can all have our own truth.

*

Here's a typical conversation:

*

Person A says: Hello, do you believe in God?

*

Person B says: Well, no, I don't. Everyone can believe what they want to believe.

*

Person A says: True, everyone can believe whatever they want to believe but that doesn't make whatever they believe true.

*

Person B (gets restless & says): Everyone has their "own truth". The fact that God doesn't exist is "my truth".

*

Person A says: Truth isn't relative. It's absolute. So, the TRUTH is, God either exists or He doesn't. It cannot be both ways.

*

Person B (gets miffed and says): I believe that everyone has their own truth.

*

Person A says: Well, you can believe that but that doesn't make it true. What you believe may not be true. It may in fact be a lie. If you do not believe in God, that's your belief but not "your truth". You don't own the truth. It is what it is. It's totally illogical and absurd to think that everyone can believe what they want, have totally opposing positions and somehow everyone has THE TRUTH. That's impossible. Logic dictates that everyone cannot have opposing beliefs and everyone believe THE TRUTH at the same time. Truth is not relative.

*

Person B (not grasping the point) says: Well, that's your truth.

*

Person A says: No, the truth is what it is. For example, is grass green or hot pink? Just because you believe that it's HOT PINK, doesn't make it HOT PINK. The TRUTH is, grass is green. If we're all looking at green grass and 50% of the people decide that they want it to be HOT PINK, the TRUTH is that it's green (not hot pink). So, it cannot be green and hot pink at the same time. Nor, can we all believe different things about the color of the grass and they all be TRUE.

*
Person B gets miffed and walks away.

*

End of conversation.

[Edited 8/15/13 11:31am]

Person C might argue that it is irrelevant whether God is "real" in a physical sense, but what makes God real to people who believe, is the (positive) power and impact their belief has on their own lives, hence why person B might have a point.

Ultimately, what makes believing so meaningful and important is acknowledging that we do not know any final truth (contrary to what many books and churches of this world may say), but that we simply believe there is something bigger and better in this universe. We believe that we are not the centre of this universe and that we do not have to succumb to our egoistical needs, because we believe in love and doing good. But it is a humble way of believing in something bigger and better. We believe, but we do not know. And that's why we wouldn't kill for ours beliefs, nor tell anyone that what we believe is the truth. At least in my opinion.

I would argue that God is not real in the sense that he created the Earth and every one of us, in the sense that he looks down on us and judges and decides who goes to heaven and who will rot in hell. I would argue that it is not true that only one church and one book is "right" about who is holy and what is right or wrong. I think they are all wrong in trying to tell us what is right or wrong, good or bad.

I would, however, argue that the positive impact humbly believing in God is real. And that's why, maybe, in this case, there is no final "truth".

At least, that's what person C might say. And they might have a point.

I don't believe any church has all truth.

*

However, I do believe in THE TRUTH (Yeshua).

*

People can disagree with that. That's their perogative. However, Yeshua claims to be THE TRUTH so we have to make a decision whether or not we believe that He is. Either He is or He isn't. There's no way around it. Either Yeshua told the truth when He claimed to be THE TRUTH, or, He's a liar. It's one or the other. If we believe that He is the truth, then we must also believe the Word (the truth) that He believed / believes in (the Hebrew Scriptures).

*

As far as Person C saying that no one has the right to tell us what's right and wrong, I disagree. God does. He's the final authority. They can choose not to believe in Him. That's fine. However, that's not "their truth" it's "their belief". Truth does in fact exist and as believers, it's our quest to search for it and embrace it. God's Word is truth. It's fine that people don't want to believe that, or feel that no book has the truth, but that doesn't take away from the fact that THE TRUTH does exist. The grass is green (not hot pink).

*

People can disagree with what THE TRUTH is or the source of THE TRUTH (what book it resides in), however, THE TRUTH does exist. Logic dictates that's the case. Truth is absolute. Since all religions (and their corresponding books) do not agree, they can't all be a source of THE TRUTH.

[Edited 8/16/13 3:22am]

Graycap23 said:

morningsong said:

. If that were the case things should be so far more advanced, the energy problem should at least be solved.

Do u honestly think that those that are making BILLIONS on gas/oil would allow the energy question 2 be solved?

Tesla has already solved the problem of free energy.

http://www.nikolateslafreenergy.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...yffe_Tower

Tempest said:

I don't believe any church has all truth.

*

However, I do believe in THE TRUTH (Yeshua).

*

People can disagree with that. That's their perogative. However, Yeshua claims to be THE TRUTH so we have to make a decision whether or not we believe that He is. Either He is or He isn't. There's no way around it. Either Yeshua told the truth when He claimed to be THE TRUTH, or, He's a liar. It's one or the other. If we believe that He is the truth, then we must also believe the Word (the truth) that He believed / believes in (the Hebrew Scriptures).

*

As far as Person C saying that no one has the right to tell us what's right and wrong, I disagree. God does. He's the final authority. They can choose not to believe in Him. That's fine. However, that's not "their truth" it's "their belief". Truth does in fact exist and as believers, it's our quest to search for it and embrace it. God's Word is truth. It's fine that people don't want to believe that, or feel that no book has the truth, but that doesn't take away from the fact that THE TRUTH does exist. The grass is green (not hot pink).

*

People can disagree with what THE TRUTH is or the source of THE TRUTH (what book it resides in), however, THE TRUTH does exist. Logic dictates that's the case. Truth is absolute. Since all religions (and their corresponding books) do not agree, they can't all be a source of THE TRUTH.

[Edited 8/16/13 3:22am]

What about person J?

J beliefs in God, not in religion.

J does not belief religion, because she thingks that no human being can decide for another human being, what God's judgement or intention is.

Being human limits us in many ways. One of it is, having limitied perction and communication devices.

Tempest said:

*

This niche market will even use phrases like, Well, that's "your truth" or refer to what they personally believe as "my truth". As if we can all have our own truth.

*

Here's a typical conversation:

*

Person A says: Hello, do you believe in God?

*

Person B says: Well, no, I don't. Everyone can believe what they want to believe.

*

Person A says: True, everyone can believe whatever they want to believe but that doesn't make whatever they believe true.

*

Person B (gets restless & says): Everyone has their "own truth". The fact that God doesn't exist is "my truth".

*

Person A says: Truth isn't relative. It's absolute. So, the TRUTH is, God either exists or He doesn't. It cannot be both ways.

*

Person B (gets miffed and says): I believe that everyone has their own truth.

*

Person A says: Well, you can believe that but that doesn't make it true. What you believe may not be true. It may in fact be a lie. If you do not believe in God, that's your belief but not "your truth". You don't own the truth. It is what it is. It's totally illogical and absurd to think that everyone can believe what they want, have totally opposing positions and somehow everyone has THE TRUTH. That's impossible. Logic dictates that everyone cannot have opposing beliefs and everyone believe THE TRUTH at the same time. Truth is not relative.

*

Person B (not grasping the point) says: Well, that's your truth.

*

Person A says: No, the truth is what it is. For example, is grass green or hot pink? Just because you believe that it's HOT PINK, doesn't make it HOT PINK. The TRUTH is, grass is green. If we're all looking at green grass and 50% of the people decide that they want it to be HOT PINK, the TRUTH is that it's green (not hot pink). So, it cannot be green and hot pink at the same time. Nor, can we all believe different things about the color of the grass and they all be TRUE.

*
Person B gets miffed and walks away.

*

End of conversation.

[Edited 8/15/13 11:31am]

Your statement sounds similar as a scientific aproach to truth.

The only thing we, humans, can decide if the assumption is true, is by testing the hypothesis over and over again, in different circumstances. And until the test have not prduced proof that the hypothesis is wrong, it's save to assume the hypothesis is true.


However, because we only have eyes, ears, nose, mouth and touch, we are limited in testing methods. And because of our limited brain capacity, we are limited in the way we formulate these hypotheses.

So, yes, there can't be differnent variations on the the truth. However, there are infinite hypotheses and testing procedures over the truth.

There is one truth.

But how can a human being establish that truth?

While I was typing all this, a butterfly flew in my house, fluttered above me and then fortunately fluttered outside again (before my cat could catch the butterfly)


Act of God.

dJJ said:

Tempest said:

*

This niche market will even use phrases like, Well, that's "your truth" or refer to what they personally believe as "my truth". As if we can all have our own truth.

*

Here's a typical conversation:

*

Person A says: Hello, do you believe in God?

*

Person B says: Well, no, I don't. Everyone can believe what they want to believe.

*

Person A says: True, everyone can believe whatever they want to believe but that doesn't make whatever they believe true.

*

Person B (gets restless & says): Everyone has their "own truth". The fact that God doesn't exist is "my truth".

*

Person A says: Truth isn't relative. It's absolute. So, the TRUTH is, God either exists or He doesn't. It cannot be both ways.

*

Person B (gets miffed and says): I believe that everyone has their own truth.

*

Person A says: Well, you can believe that but that doesn't make it true. What you believe may not be true. It may in fact be a lie. If you do not believe in God, that's your belief but not "your truth". You don't own the truth. It is what it is. It's totally illogical and absurd to think that everyone can believe what they want, have totally opposing positions and somehow everyone has THE TRUTH. That's impossible. Logic dictates that everyone cannot have opposing beliefs and everyone believe THE TRUTH at the same time. Truth is not relative.

*

Person B (not grasping the point) says: Well, that's your truth.

*

Person A says: No, the truth is what it is. For example, is grass green or hot pink? Just because you believe that it's HOT PINK, doesn't make it HOT PINK. The TRUTH is, grass is green. If we're all looking at green grass and 50% of the people decide that they want it to be HOT PINK, the TRUTH is that it's green (not hot pink). So, it cannot be green and hot pink at the same time. Nor, can we all believe different things about the color of the grass and they all be TRUE.

*
Person B gets miffed and walks away.

*

End of conversation.

[Edited 8/15/13 11:31am]

Your statement sounds similar as a scientific aproach to truth.

The only thing we, humans, can decide if the assumption is true, is by testing the hypothesis over and over again, in different circumstances. And until the test have not prduced proof that the hypothesis is wrong, it's save to assume the hypothesis is true.


However, because we only have eyes, ears, nose, mouth and touch, we are limited in testing methods. And because of our limited brain capacity, we are limited in the way we formulate these hypotheses.

So, yes, there can't be differnent variations on the the truth. However, there are infinite hypotheses and testing procedures over the truth.

There is one truth.

But how can a human being establish that truth?

*

I honestly didn't mean to get too deep about truth. Just the fact that it's absolute and not relative. Logically, that is so.

*

How can a human being establish truth (especially that which cannot be physically tested)?

*
We're promised a gift (as believers). The Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Truth). The Spirit is not something that can be tested physcially etc. However, the Spirit is promised to us and if we heed His voice, He will lead us and guide us into all truth (that according to Yeshua).

*

John 16:13

dJJ said:

Tempest said:

I don't believe any church has all truth.

*

However, I do believe in THE TRUTH (Yeshua).

*

People can disagree with that. That's their perogative. However, Yeshua claims to be THE TRUTH so we have to make a decision whether or not we believe that He is. Either He is or He isn't. There's no way around it. Either Yeshua told the truth when He claimed to be THE TRUTH, or, He's a liar. It's one or the other. If we believe that He is the truth, then we must also believe the Word (the truth) that He believed / believes in (the Hebrew Scriptures).

*

As far as Person C saying that no one has the right to tell us what's right and wrong, I disagree. God does. He's the final authority. They can choose not to believe in Him. That's fine. However, that's not "their truth" it's "their belief". Truth does in fact exist and as believers, it's our quest to search for it and embrace it. God's Word is truth. It's fine that people don't want to believe that, or feel that no book has the truth, but that doesn't take away from the fact that THE TRUTH does exist. The grass is green (not hot pink).

*

People can disagree with what THE TRUTH is or the source of THE TRUTH (what book it resides in), however, THE TRUTH does exist. Logic dictates that's the case. Truth is absolute. Since all religions (and their corresponding books) do not agree, they can't all be a source of THE TRUTH.

[Edited 8/16/13 3:22am]

What about person J?

J beliefs in God, not in religion.

J does not belief religion, because she thingks that no human being can decide for another human being, what God's judgement or intention is.

Being human limits us in many ways. One of it is, having limitied perction and communication devices.

*

I'm not sure where you're going with your thought here.

*

However, I'm a believer in God, not manmade religion. A human being cannot decide on his own what God's judgement is. However, we can read about it in God's Word. That's God's business. My only goal in life is to try and come into AGREEMENT with what God says. I don't care what humans say. Only what God says.

*

My point about religion was in reference to finding the TRUE GOD. There are many gods out there and many religions. My point was if you're a lover of TRUTH, than one needs to make an attempt to find the TRUE GOD and what He has to say.

[Edited 8/16/13 5:56am]

Byron said:

Apparently the planet she's from doesn't offer graphic design classes. Jeebus.

Or beauty shops

13cjk13 said:

Byron said:

Apparently the planet she's from doesn't offer graphic design classes. Jeebus.

Or beauty shops

She kind of reminds me of:

[img:$uid]http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/RodeoSchro/g1joyce_zps342bfdf4.jpg[/img:$uid]

robertlove said:

I believe her

to not trust the government or her origin?