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Thread started 07/18/13 4:26pm

MacDaddy

Plants have emotions - Mythbusters test Cleve Backster's 'Primary Perception'

Mythbusters puts the experiments of Cleve Backster to test, the man who claimed that every living being is connected and proved it with a polygraph machine in the 1960's.



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Reply #1 posted 07/18/13 4:36pm

paintedlady

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I love Dracaena plants. biggrin I have a couple.

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Reply #2 posted 07/18/13 4:39pm

morningsong

Yeah I remember hearing something about the experiment, done with boiling live shrimp and stuff. I didn't know it took place in the 60s and didn't know they or rather he measured the plants' reaction to thought. I always thought it was a proven idea and not just a myth. I believed it. It made a whole lot of sense to me that plants are that perceptive to other life.
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Reply #3 posted 07/18/13 4:39pm

XxAxX

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we all share a common vibe, man nod

i hope that dude apologized to the plant and washed it off

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Reply #4 posted 07/18/13 4:42pm

morningsong

paintedlady said:

I love Dracaena plants. biggrin I have a couple.


My Aunt has had hers for over 20 years, it's entertaining to see her talk to it like a baby. She swears it moves when she comes in the room.
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Reply #5 posted 07/18/13 4:51pm

SweeTeaII

Oh wow! I got a knot in my throat and almost brought to tears...the amazingness of The Creator(s) sometimes overwhelms me
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so". Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #6 posted 07/18/13 5:11pm

MacDaddy

I learned about Cleve Backster's Primary Perception a year and a half ago. The idea that plants can actually sense intention blew me away. I have not 'harmed' any living creature since then, or at least tried not to.

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Reply #7 posted 07/18/13 6:35pm

RenHoek

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moderator

Vegans and vegitarians everywhere are MURDERERS!!!! mad

A working class Hero is something to be ~ Lennon
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Reply #8 posted 07/18/13 6:40pm

ZombieKitten

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Didn't Ray Bradbury write a short story about a machine that amplified the highest frequencies so humans could hear them. Roses screamed when you cut them! cry
I'm the mistake you wanna make
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Reply #9 posted 07/18/13 6:44pm

morningsong

ZombieKitten said:

Didn't Ray Bradbury write a short story about a machine that amplified the highest frequencies so humans could hear them. Roses screamed when you cut them! cry

Oh gawd.
shake
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Reply #10 posted 07/18/13 6:48pm

XxAxX

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i just went and watered my plants and talked to them awwww touched

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Reply #11 posted 07/18/13 7:47pm

aardvark15

Things like this make me question my existence more than any book. Incredible find.
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Reply #12 posted 07/19/13 12:35am

MacDaddy

aardvark15 said:

Things like this make me question my existence more than any book. Incredible find.

This made me definitely change my perception of reality and life as I know it.

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Reply #13 posted 07/19/13 4:51pm

SUPRMAN

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THE idea that plants have developed a subterranean internet, which they use to raise the alarm when danger threatens, sounds more like the science-fiction of James Cameron’s film “Avatar” than any sort of science fact. But fact it seems to be, if work by David Johnson of the University of Aberdeen is anything to go by. For Dr Johnson believes he has shown that just such an internet, with fungal hyphae standing in for local Wi-Fi, alerts beanstalks to danger if one of their neighbours is attacked by aphids.

The experiment which suggests this was following up the discovery, made in 2010 by a Chinese team, that when a tomato plant gets infected with leaf blight, nearby plants start activating genes that help ward the infection off—even if all airflow between the plants in question has been eliminated. The researchers who conducted this study knew that soil fungi whose hyphae are symbiotic with tomatoes (providing them with minerals in exchange for food) also form a network connecting one plant to another. They speculated, though they could not prove, that molecules signalling danger were passing through this fungal network.

Dr Johnson knew from his own past work that when broad-bean plants are attacked by aphids they respond with volatile chemicals that both irritate the parasites and attract aphid-hunting wasps. He did not know, though, whether the message could spread, tomato-like, from plant to plant. So he set out to find out—and to do so in a way which would show if fungi were the messengers.

As they report in Ecology Letters, he and his colleagues set up eight “mesocosms”, each containing five beanstalks. The plants were allowed to grow for four months, and during this time every plant could interact with symbiotic fungi in the soil.

Not all of the beanstalks, though, had the same relationship with the fungi. In each mesocosm, one plant was surrounded by a mesh penetrated by holes half a micron across. Gaps that size are too small for either roots or hyphae to penetrate, but they do permit the passage of water and dissolved chemicals. Two plants were surrounded with a 40-micron mesh. This can be penetrated by hyphae but not by roots. The two remaining plants, one of which was at the centre of the array, were left to grow unimpeded.

Five weeks after the experiment began, all the plants were covered by bags that allowed carbon dioxide, oxygen and water vapour in and out, but stopped the passage of larger molecules, of the sort a beanstalk might use for signalling. Then, four days from the end, one of the 40-micron meshes in each mesocosm was rotated to sever any hyphae that had penetrated it, and the central plant was then infested with aphids.

At the end of the experiment Dr Johnson and his team collected the air inside the bags, extracted any volatile chemicals in it by absorbing them into a special porous polymer, and tested those chemicals on both aphids (using the winged, rather than the wingless morphs) and wasps. Each insect was placed for five minutes in an apparatus that had two chambers, one of which contained a sample of the volatiles and the other an odourless control.

The researchers found, as they expected from their previous work, that when the volatiles came from an infested plant, wasps spent an average of 3½ minutes in the chamber containing them and 1½ in the other chamber. Aphids, conversely, spent 1¾ minutes in the volatiles’ chamber and 3¼ in the control. In other words, the volatiles from an infested plant attract wasps and repel aphids.

Crucially, the team got the same result in the case of uninfested plants that had been in uninterrupted hyphal contact with the infested one, but had had root contact blocked. If both hyphae and roots had been blocked throughout the experiment, though, the volatiles from uninfested plants actually attracted aphids (they spent 3½ minutes in the volatiles’ chamber), while the wasps were indifferent. The same pertained for the odour of uninfested plants whose hyphal connections had been allowed to develop, and then severed by the rotation of the mesh.

Broad beans, then, really do seem to be using their fungal symbionts as a communications network, warning their neighbours to take evasive action. Such a general response no doubt helps the plant first attacked by attracting yet more wasps to the area, and it helps the fungal messengers by preserving their leguminous hosts.

Plant-fungus symbiosis is a surprisingly underexplored area of biology. The limited data available suggest most plants go in for it in one form or another, but its role is only slowly being illuminated. Work like Dr Johnson’s suggests this is a serious omission, not least for the understanding of how crops like beans actually grow. The underground world, though invisible to the human eye, should not for that reason be ignored or underestimated.

http://www.economist.com/...beans-talk

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #14 posted 07/19/13 6:48pm

babynoz

I'm very nice to my plants but they don't really thrive...what am I doing wrong? sad

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #15 posted 07/19/13 8:01pm

aardvark15

babynoz said:

I'm very nice to my plants but they don't really thrive...what am I doing wrong? sad

Maybe your plants would like a lady plant for company. Just a thought.

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Reply #16 posted 07/19/13 8:09pm

NDRU

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Sweet, might as well stick with steak, then! woot!

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Reply #17 posted 07/19/13 9:25pm

babynoz

aardvark15 said:

babynoz said:

I'm very nice to my plants but they don't really thrive...what am I doing wrong? sad

Maybe your plants would like a lady plant for company. Just a thought.



biggrin Date night for shrubbery.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #18 posted 07/19/13 9:30pm

aardvark15

babynoz said:



aardvark15 said:




babynoz said:


I'm very nice to my plants but they don't really thrive...what am I doing wrong? sad



Maybe your plants would like a lady plant for company. Just a thought.





biggrin Date night for shrubbery.


Just don't put candles. Don't want to make them think you're going to smoke them.
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Reply #19 posted 07/19/13 9:39pm

babynoz

aardvark15 said:

babynoz said:



biggrin Date night for shrubbery.

Just don't put candles. Don't want to make them think you're going to smoke them.



evillol

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #20 posted 07/20/13 12:46am

MacDaddy

SUPRMAN said:

THE idea that plants have developed a subterranean internet, which they use to raise the alarm when danger threatens, sounds more like the science-fiction of James Cameron’s film “Avatar” than any sort of science fact. But fact it seems to be, if work by David Johnson of the University of Aberdeen is anything to go by. For Dr Johnson believes he has shown that just such an internet, with fungal hyphae standing in for local Wi-Fi, alerts beanstalks to danger if one of their neighbours is attacked by aphids.

The experiment which suggests this was following up the discovery, made in 2010 by a Chinese team, that when a tomato plant gets infected with leaf blight, nearby plants start activating genes that help ward the infection off—even if all airflow between the plants in question has been eliminated. The researchers who conducted this study knew that soil fungi whose hyphae are symbiotic with tomatoes (providing them with minerals in exchange for food) also form a network connecting one plant to another. They speculated, though they could not prove, that molecules signalling danger were passing through this fungal network.

Dr Johnson knew from his own past work that when broad-bean plants are attacked by aphids they respond with volatile chemicals that both irritate the parasites and attract aphid-hunting wasps. He did not know, though, whether the message could spread, tomato-like, from plant to plant. So he set out to find out—and to do so in a way which would show if fungi were the messengers.

As they report in Ecology Letters, he and his colleagues set up eight “mesocosms”, each containing five beanstalks. The plants were allowed to grow for four months, and during this time every plant could interact with symbiotic fungi in the soil.

Not all of the beanstalks, though, had the same relationship with the fungi. In each mesocosm, one plant was surrounded by a mesh penetrated by holes half a micron across. Gaps that size are too small for either roots or hyphae to penetrate, but they do permit the passage of water and dissolved chemicals. Two plants were surrounded with a 40-micron mesh. This can be penetrated by hyphae but not by roots. The two remaining plants, one of which was at the centre of the array, were left to grow unimpeded.

Five weeks after the experiment began, all the plants were covered by bags that allowed carbon dioxide, oxygen and water vapour in and out, but stopped the passage of larger molecules, of the sort a beanstalk might use for signalling. Then, four days from the end, one of the 40-micron meshes in each mesocosm was rotated to sever any hyphae that had penetrated it, and the central plant was then infested with aphids.

At the end of the experiment Dr Johnson and his team collected the air inside the bags, extracted any volatile chemicals in it by absorbing them into a special porous polymer, and tested those chemicals on both aphids (using the winged, rather than the wingless morphs) and wasps. Each insect was placed for five minutes in an apparatus that had two chambers, one of which contained a sample of the volatiles and the other an odourless control.

The researchers found, as they expected from their previous work, that when the volatiles came from an infested plant, wasps spent an average of 3½ minutes in the chamber containing them and 1½ in the other chamber. Aphids, conversely, spent 1¾ minutes in the volatiles’ chamber and 3¼ in the control. In other words, the volatiles from an infested plant attract wasps and repel aphids.

Crucially, the team got the same result in the case of uninfested plants that had been in uninterrupted hyphal contact with the infested one, but had had root contact blocked. If both hyphae and roots had been blocked throughout the experiment, though, the volatiles from uninfested plants actually attracted aphids (they spent 3½ minutes in the volatiles’ chamber), while the wasps were indifferent. The same pertained for the odour of uninfested plants whose hyphal connections had been allowed to develop, and then severed by the rotation of the mesh.

Broad beans, then, really do seem to be using their fungal symbionts as a communications network, warning their neighbours to take evasive action. Such a general response no doubt helps the plant first attacked by attracting yet more wasps to the area, and it helps the fungal messengers by preserving their leguminous hosts.

Plant-fungus symbiosis is a surprisingly underexplored area of biology. The limited data available suggest most plants go in for it in one form or another, but its role is only slowly being illuminated. Work like Dr Johnson’s suggests this is a serious omission, not least for the understanding of how crops like beans actually grow. The underground world, though invisible to the human eye, should not for that reason be ignored or underestimated.

http://www.economist.com/...beans-talk

Nice read, thanks for posting!

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Reply #21 posted 07/20/13 11:36am

CocoRock


lol

Cool thread. cool

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Forums > General Discussion > Plants have emotions - Mythbusters test Cleve Backster's 'Primary Perception'