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Reply #60 posted 04/11/13 9:16am

dJJ

Beautifulstarr123 said:

prodigalfan said:

I know he uses my daughter to control me as well... that kept me under control for a while because I was afraid that he would get full custody of my only child. And I am still worried that he will leave the country with her. I have removed her passport from our house just in case he decided to leave US. He has traveled to India and had planned to move there... has talked about moving to South America, and Israel when he feels anxious about the politics of the US. So I have the passport and I guess if he ever finds out I will pay the price... but I will not let him take her away from family and her country just because he has delusions and paranoia.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't sound like an American man. What country is he from?

There is no easy way to categorize or recognise an abuser.

It's not a foreign thing.

The thing is, it's very likely that in your circle of friends or family, in at least one relationship;

this is going on.

And you might even participate yourself, by joking about the victim with the abuser.

Because you like the abuser. He is social, funny, caring, interested, charming, genuine.

You really don't know that he's faking all that. That is his best weapon.

It's all just an instrument to manipulate everybody around him. And especially his spouse.

People really like to think that the world is a save place.

Danger that is easy recognizable, makes the world save.

Assuming that the evil guy is easy to detect, makes us feel save.

Because, if that case, we can protect ourselves from clear and present danger.

People will think that an abuser is a foreigner, or a typical bad guy character from a Hollywood movie, or a grumpy guy or any other stereotype you have about an abuser.

So, an outsider will assume that if you are a victim, it must be her own fault.

She should have defended herself against the evil. I mean, she should have not chosen that guy in the first place, right?

The outside world will enforce the abuse by implicitly blame her for her own misery.

People just don't like weak people. We like the strong, healthy ones.

And that phenomenon is exactly what the abuser will work with. He will look like the strong one.

However, as soon as his behaviour comes out, he will turn it around.

He will lie and twist every detail and make sure people think that he is the victim.

It's my experience that only the people who have gone through this, and have healed themselves, can understand it.

Outsiders, so also the counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists, lawyers etc. will not be able to understand it.

99% of my posts are ironic. Maybe this post sides with the other 1%.
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Reply #61 posted 04/11/13 9:17am

Beautifulstarr
123

avatar

dJJ said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

It appears that the signs were there all along, but at least you're getting the help you need, finally nod

NO.

YES nod

......and I suggest that you read this again. She chose to ignore those signs. She said it herself.

wow, now there's a story... I met my husband on the internet in a chat room .... does anyone remember Prodigy???

He always was a difficult person with anger management issues... but never directed toward me. I guess because I was just so happy to have met someone who loved and wanted to marry me that I just went along with what ever he wanted. Our problems began after we had our daughter.... there were some things that I didn't want to go along with.

I believe now that he was always different, eccentric..... yes crazy. It has gotten much worst as he gets older. and now his hostility is directed at me because there is no one else in his life but me and our daughter... His family he keeps at a distance... and no friends are around from his younger years.. and he has no new friends. WE didn't have any friends or any visitors other than family for 16 of our 17 years of marriage... except the occasional friend of his from high school that came around when someone from high school died etc. I'm from another state so I really didn't know anyone from this area except the people I work with. So I was isolated right away.... his family, his friends....

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Reply #62 posted 04/11/13 9:23am

dJJ

Beautifulstarr123 said:

dJJ said:

YES nod

......and I suggest that you read this again. She chose to ignore those signs. She said it herself.

Yes, actually you are right.

I have been so focused on trying to deflect people from blaming the victim, that I didn't read it like that.

The thing is that the early signs will not be very clear. And yes, oftentimes, somebody so badly wants to be in a relationship, that they think that it's really not that bad.

Or: He will change when we are together, I can help him with that.

Only to find out after 30 years that he just promises he will change (in order to keep her around).

But he will not change. Never.

wow, now there's a story... I met my husband on the internet in a chat room .... does anyone remember Prodigy???

He always was a difficult person with anger management issues... but never directed toward me. I guess because I was just so happy to have met someone who loved and wanted to marry me that I just went along with what ever he wanted. Our problems began after we had our daughter.... there were some things that I didn't want to go along with.

I believe now that he was always different, eccentric..... yes crazy. It has gotten much worst as he gets older. and now his hostility is directed at me because there is no one else in his life but me and our daughter... His family he keeps at a distance... and no friends are around from his younger years.. and he has no new friends. WE didn't have any friends or any visitors other than family for 16 of our 17 years of marriage... except the occasional friend of his from high school that came around when someone from high school died etc. I'm from another state so I really didn't know anyone from this area except the people I work with. So I was isolated right away.... his family, his friends....

99% of my posts are ironic. Maybe this post sides with the other 1%.
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Reply #63 posted 04/11/13 9:23am

Beautifulstarr
123

avatar

dJJ said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he doesn't sound like an American man. What country is he from?

There is no easy way to categorize or recognise an abuser.

It's not a foreign thing.

The thing is, it's very likely that in your circle of friends or family, in at least one relationship;

this is going on.

And you might even participate yourself, by joking about the victim with the abuser.

Because you like the abuser. He is social, funny, caring, interested, charming, genuine.

You really don't know that he's faking all that. That is his best weapon.

It's all just an instrument to manipulate everybody around him. And especially his spouse.

People really like to think that the world is a save place.

Danger that is easy recognizable, makes the world save.

Assuming that the evil guy is easy to detect, makes us feel save.

Because, if that case, we can protect ourselves from clear and present danger.

People will think that an abuser is a foreigner, or a typical bad guy character from a Hollywood movie, or a grumpy guy or any other stereotype you have about an abuser.

So, an outsider will assume that if you are a victim, it must be her own fault.

She should have defended herself against the evil. I mean, she should have not chosen that guy in the first place, right?

The outside world will enforce the abuse by implicitly blame her for her own misery.

People just don't like weak people. We like the strong, healthy ones.

And that phenomenon is exactly what the abuser will work with. He will look like the strong one.

However, as soon as his behaviour comes out, he will turn it around.

He will lie and twist every detail and make sure people think that he is the victim.

It's my experience that only the people who have gone through this, and have healed themselves, can understand it.

Outsiders, so also the counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists, lawyers etc. will not be able to understand it.

Had you read post #55, it would have saved you the time.

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Reply #64 posted 04/11/13 9:30am

dJJ

Beautifulstarr123 said:

dJJ said:

There is no easy way to categorize or recognise an abuser.

It's not a foreign thing.

The thing is, it's very likely that in your circle of friends or family, in at least one relationship;

this is going on.

And you might even participate yourself, by joking about the victim with the abuser.

Because you like the abuser. He is social, funny, caring, interested, charming, genuine.

You really don't know that he's faking all that. That is his best weapon.

It's all just an instrument to manipulate everybody around him. And especially his spouse.

People really like to think that the world is a save place.

Danger that is easy recognizable, makes the world save.

Assuming that the evil guy is easy to detect, makes us feel save.

Because, if that case, we can protect ourselves from clear and present danger.

People will think that an abuser is a foreigner, or a typical bad guy character from a Hollywood movie, or a grumpy guy or any other stereotype you have about an abuser.

So, an outsider will assume that if you are a victim, it must be her own fault.

She should have defended herself against the evil. I mean, she should have not chosen that guy in the first place, right?

The outside world will enforce the abuse by implicitly blame her for her own misery.

People just don't like weak people. We like the strong, healthy ones.

And that phenomenon is exactly what the abuser will work with. He will look like the strong one.

However, as soon as his behaviour comes out, he will turn it around.

He will lie and twist every detail and make sure people think that he is the victim.

It's my experience that only the people who have gone through this, and have healed themselves, can understand it.

Outsiders, so also the counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists, lawyers etc. will not be able to understand it.

Had you read post #55, it would have saved you the time.

No such thing as wasting time, when it's about this subject.

I only one person reads my posts and will think about it, I will be happy.

It's not about my time. I've adopted a life mission to improve the life of women.

I hope that this thread is not only supporting Prodigalfan.

If al our posts here, even slightly help another woman on this earth to take action or become aware about this, I would be so happy and thankful.

99% of my posts are ironic. Maybe this post sides with the other 1%.
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Reply #65 posted 04/11/13 9:41am

Genesia

avatar

prodigalfan said:

imago said:

Chile, my problem is even more rediculous.

I had a messy as condo for almost an entire year. Constantly cleaning it, constantly trying to make my place presentable. I was afraid to have people come over, I was constantly forgoing activities to 'clean my place.'

I had been through a series of bad relationships the year before, and was afraid to venture out and be me again. By having a dirty place, I was able to not do that. After cleaning the shit out of my place, I forced myself to join the world of the living.

Now, I've met all sorts of new people and am in a better place. Seriously--I realize now my dirty

ass condo was an excuse to not live.

:hugs: love you Imago!! I have done that as well, not having a clean place as an excuse for friends at work not being invited or welcomed for a visit.

But in the last 6 months I made effort to be more outgoing...(tryng to impress that friend of mine wink) and I have several really good buddies.. and one really good friend. I was shocked and moved, when these people came out to visit me when I came home from the hospital after my first surgery. Every sunday someone was driving out to see me or calling me. Sunday was the sick and shut in day. LOL

My husband was shocked... you know because he had told me 6 months earlier that no one liked me, no one wanted me, no man would want my fat ass because I was a miserable piece of shit.

Well, I proved him wrong... I have friends that i go out with and when I am sick they come to see about me.

So now I am more concientious about how I look and how my house and car looks because I want to be ready just in case.

I also started dressing in coordinate clean wrinkle free clothes and shaving under my arms and legs because once again... I want to be prepared just in case. Before I didn't do those things because no one would see or care anyway.

And that is the reason for my elective surgeries. Hernia repair (my stomach looked like Signorney Weaver's in the movie Alien) and breast reconstruction...(cause the next man I get involved with will most likely want me to have some boobs... lol)

So thanks for sharing that with me about your condo and How you had fears and overcame them. i don't feel like a loser... people that i like and respect here on the Org have overcome fears personal shortcomings and reading your (and everyone elses) stories lets me know I am not alone and I will get through this. smile


So you have spent (I presume) thousands of dollars on these surgeries, but are worried about a $5K retainer for a divorce lawyer?

You need counseling just to figure out why you don't want to be free of your abuser. Because that's what this boils down to - Stockholm syndrome. It doesn't sound as if you sympathize with your abuser, but on some level, you do - or you'd have split up long ago. The money you've spent on surgeries and clothing and whatever else you've done to make yourself "feel better" is just window dressing. You need to address the real issues.

And let me tell you something it took me a loooooong time to understand about men: A man who truly loves you not only doesn't mind a few extra pounds or a wrinkle here and there - he doesn't even see them. Seriously.

Now, obviously, you want to keep yourself up. But there is absolutely no need to go to extremes (and surgery is an extreme). This is also why it's a good idea to wait until you're sure it's love before giving it up.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #66 posted 04/11/13 10:07am

Beautifulstarr
123

avatar

dJJ said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Had you read post #55, it would have saved you the time.

No such thing as wasting time, when it's about this subject.

I only one person reads my posts and will think about it, I will be happy.

It's not about my time. I've adopted a life mission to improve the life of women.

I hope that this thread is not only supporting Prodigalfan.

If al our posts here, even slightly help another woman on this earth to take action or become aware about this, I would be so happy and thankful.

I meant the wasted responses, had you read my posts and hers, but I wish the op well, and may you continue on your mission to help abused women.

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Reply #67 posted 04/11/13 4:59pm

prodigalfan

avatar

dJJ said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

It appears that the signs were there all along, but at least you're getting the help you need, finally nod

NO.

Thank you for writing this, because I really think it's time for a general swift of angle towards psychlogical abusive partners and their victims.

Podigalfan: be vey selective when you get a counselor. There are very few who understand psychologica abuse. They tend to assume it's a certain kind of women that "choose" an abusive partner.

The abuser will pick strong women. Because he can get the most out of that.

Than he will mislead that women, in order to get her.

So, there are no easy signs to recognize him. He will be a cameleon, adapting a persona that she will love.

And when he's got he in, only then he slowly will start to weaken her.

- Highlight her shortcomings and downplay her successes. SLowly make her belief she is wortless.

Result: She will feel she is no good, so will not hold a good job. She will retract herself from the workplace. Sometimes even gets fired. She will become dependant of him. She will belief she needs him, because she's no good herself. She will not leave him.

- Team up with friends/family making fun of her. Family/friends perceive it as innocently joking around. But for the abuser it's a method to slowly make her feel unsave among her friends. And he will make sure she will become the one who everybody jokes about. Making her the weak one in her circle of friends/family.

Result: She will get isolated, friends will not belief her stories, they will think he's fun and he can't be as evil as she says. In the end they will belief him that she is just a hysterical woman who should be apreciative that he wants her. She will not have a circle of friends/family to help her to get out of the relationship or house. They will unknowingly participate in the abuse.

If you want to get out; you also need to detach yourself from these people. Maybe later in life you can reconnect.

- He will make her feel guilty about not taking care of him enough. She will become so afraid that she's greedy. He will convince her that she's not wearth of the stuff she wants. She will spend all her money and the family income on him. And even than she will feel guilty. After a while, she will have no savings of her own anymore. She will be paying all the bills. She also enabled him to buy a car, motor, fancy clothes etc.

Result: She looks like a nerd and he looks good. People think that he's the one with the biggest income, because he looks like that. She will not have any financial recources anymore for herself. So, she can't leave him. He will convince her that she's too poor to be without her.

These things sound crazy that you would 'let this happen' when you read it like this.

But, it really is not.

Every time I read your posts... I get a chill down my spine. Something you write I think "oh I am not that bad off.." and then I will read something that catches my breath.

I still have a good job.... even better... but I had to push against him and that was the beginning of our end. I would get up 3 am in the morning to do my homework at the kitchen table because he gave me such grief when I was going to nursing school. He was ALWAYS wanting me to quit my job... and in the beginning of our marriage he would get into arguments with my managers that would cost me my job... but since I was a nurse... I could easily replace one job with another as equally as well within the week.

And 2... you mentioned about money and cars... I spend all of my money paying for all of the bills now ... he just refuses to participate in paying any of our bills.... this has weakend me becuase I am strapped for cash now... alimony is a big factor in me not just quicky filling for divorce... and my car... I made the mistake of using his credit when I bought... so all the vwhicles are in his name. When things don't go as he think they should... he takes my keys away and say "you better find your own way to work... if you use that car, I will have you arrested for grand theft"

unbelievable! See I need help in learning about myself so that I can recognize these things before I am knee deep in it.

"Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack
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Reply #68 posted 04/11/13 5:14pm

prodigalfan

avatar

Genesia said:

prodigalfan said:

:hugs: love you Imago!! I have done that as well, not having a clean place as an excuse for friends at work not being invited or welcomed for a visit.

But in the last 6 months I made effort to be more outgoing...(tryng to impress that friend of mine wink) and I have several really good buddies.. and one really good friend. I was shocked and moved, when these people came out to visit me when I came home from the hospital after my first surgery. Every sunday someone was driving out to see me or calling me. Sunday was the sick and shut in day. LOL

My husband was shocked... you know because he had told me 6 months earlier that no one liked me, no one wanted me, no man would want my fat ass because I was a miserable piece of shit.

Well, I proved him wrong... I have friends that i go out with and when I am sick they come to see about me.

So now I am more concientious about how I look and how my house and car looks because I want to be ready just in case.

I also started dressing in coordinate clean wrinkle free clothes and shaving under my arms and legs because once again... I want to be prepared just in case. Before I didn't do those things because no one would see or care anyway.

And that is the reason for my elective surgeries. Hernia repair (my stomach looked like Signorney Weaver's in the movie Alien) and breast reconstruction...(cause the next man I get involved with will most likely want me to have some boobs... lol)

So thanks for sharing that with me about your condo and How you had fears and overcame them. i don't feel like a loser... people that i like and respect here on the Org have overcome fears personal shortcomings and reading your (and everyone elses) stories lets me know I am not alone and I will get through this. smile


So you have spent (I presume) thousands of dollars on these surgeries, but are worried about a $5K retainer for a divorce lawyer?

You need counseling just to figure out why you don't want to be free of your abuser. Because that's what this boils down to - Stockholm syndrome. It doesn't sound as if you sympathize with your abuser, but on some level, you do - or you'd have split up long ago. The money you've spent on surgeries and clothing and whatever else you've done to make yourself "feel better" is just window dressing. You need to address the real issues.

And let me tell you something it took me a loooooong time to understand about men: A man who truly loves you not only doesn't mind a few extra pounds or a wrinkle here and there - he doesn't even see them. Seriously.

Now, obviously, you want to keep yourself up. But there is absolutely no need to go to extremes (and surgery is an extreme). This is also why it's a good idea to wait until you're sure it's love before giving it up.

you are right that I am window dressing my problem which is low self esteem. However my surgeries were covered by health insurance. with the excepting of the tummy tuck portion of my hernia repair.

Hernia repair was medical necessitiy... a strangulated bowel can be fatal. I put off having hernia repair 6 or 7 years...

the breast reconstruction I put off 14 years... I had a breast reduction early in my marriage and I got a terrible job. I was disfigured by that surgery. The doctor pretty much did a double mastectormy and replaced my nipples... crooked and uneven. Very horrible hack job. I sued and won against the surgeon... and then did not have the recommended and insurance covered reconstruction surgery for 14 years because my husband told me he didn't care how I looked... he loved me anyway. But I hated the way I looked and it added to my self esteem/self image problems. 14 years later, I realize that he really didn't care ..... not about how I looked, How I felt, or anything about me.

He withdrew his love physical and emotional 4 years ago when I stood up to him and insisted and purchase my own house. He had left me and went out of the country... stayed for more than a month and told me he was moving there to stay since I wouldn't move there with him.

When I convinced (begged him to return to me and our daughter by promising that I would "be a good girl" and do what I was told) he came back

. By that time I had signed a contract on a new home. At first I let that dream go... but I couldn't let it go... it was my dream and I had the finances and money to do it on my own.

So I had the house built. Up until the day I was to close... he told me we were through... and I was beginning to think it was a good thing. I planned to move on my own. The day I was to move, he moved with me and my daughter to the new house.

Since then he has been openly hostile toward me. Is verbally and mentally abusive now openly. doesn't care if he is leaving voicemail at work phone... if we are public in the store, it doesn't matter.

I want to leave him... I'm going to.... but I am afraid of him. I haven't illicit physical violence. I don't want to.

[Edited 4/11/13 17:19pm]

"Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack
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Reply #69 posted 04/12/13 3:09pm

dJJ

hug hug

I write this all because I've lived trough it.

I've been there.

And still am there.

My ex wants to start another court case against me.

And I can tell you that life really gets better.

I am doing a lot better than ever.

I know it's chilling. And when you start to realize what has been going on, you will feel so shocked.

But, first the practical things

Did you read up about divorce?

Because, I don't think you can leave it all up to a lawyer.

Make sure you understand what your legal rights are.

Prepare.

If the house is in your house, can you get him out of the house?

Why would you leave the house?

Make a financial plan.

Save money in a place he can't touch.

Can you open up a bank account without him knowing about it?

99% of my posts are ironic. Maybe this post sides with the other 1%.
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Reply #70 posted 04/12/13 7:26pm

Fonkyman

dJJ said:

Prepare.

If the house is in your house, can you get him out of the house?

Why would you leave the house?

Good question. nod

Kick him in the bollocks.

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Reply #71 posted 04/13/13 7:05am

dJJ

Fonkyman said:

dJJ said:

Prepare.

If the house is in your house, can you get him out of the house?

Why would you leave the house?

Good question. nod

Kick him in the bollocks.

Pack his bag and buy him a bus ticket to the Salvation Army.

They'll know what to do with a guy like this.

99% of my posts are ironic. Maybe this post sides with the other 1%.
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Reply #72 posted 04/13/13 10:31pm

suzysue

avatar

don't get discouraged. you are worth more than what you are dealing with. don't let someone else tell you aren't worth it. i am going through a divorce right now and it has been tough. it hasn't been an easy road to getting myself together but i know there is more out there than what we see on the horizon.

My kitty wants to play...
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Reply #73 posted 04/14/13 9:46am

TrevorAyer

Your self esteem or happiness should NOT be dependant on another person. Often society programs males and females to have certain expectations of the other to fullfill some part of ones self that ones self does not feel comfortable taking on themselves. For example ... a man may want the woman to look pretty and feminine .. a woman may want the man to earn money .. a man may not want the woman to make money as it makes him feel less of a man .. a woman may not want a man to cook and take away what she offers in the typical societal roles we voluntarily subscribe to.

These are not healthy thought patterns or society. You must recognize that your partners or crushes happiness is not your own. Stop giving away your power over yourself. Relationships are meant to share a journey, not to complete the other person. You must take back your power over your emotions and self esteem. You must be alone, and learn to find ways to make yourself happy. When you take care of yourself instead of your partner, you make yourself strong, beautiful and happy all by yourself. This is what builds self esteem. Eating good, surgery, excercising etc .. for another person does no good to your self. As soon as the other person says or behaves negatively all that work you did to please them goes in the garbage. If you did all that work to please yourself it does not matter how husband or crush reacts, you still feel good about yourself.

Find what nourishes you and what drains you. Remove the draining aspects of your life and move on, surround yourself with people who nourish you. If you stay in the rut than you like it there. It provides you some comfort of and laziness. You are afraid to take care of yourself and change your life and live for real. You would rather have the comfort of the same old negative environment because you are too lazy to take care of yourself and your own self esteem. If you had self esteem you would not be afraid to move on and be alone if that is what it takes. You are in control of your self esteem. Putting your self esteem in the hands or opinions of anyone else is unfair to them and unfair to yourself, not to mention crazy. It is crazy only because it can ONLY damage your self esteem to be dependant on other peoples behaviors.

Your first step is to take control of how you feel about yourself. This can only be done by being alone with yourself and finding happiness in that way. Only then can you find happiness with another person as well. NOT because THEY make You happy, but be cause you are already happy and they are already happy and you can both share that positive place together.

I don't subscribe to all the talk of abuse. Too many people vent too much exagerated drama to get what they want. Sympathy, Custody, Money, Friends, Self Esteem. Too many violent and abusive women accuse kind patient men of horrible things just to get custody rack up child support or just to continue their own abusive ways of getting what they want. This is not to say you are lying or undermine or minimize anyones experience. However, the fact remains that accusing a man of domestic abuse has become a tool to an end rather than a reflection of reality. I did read this thread fast but so far no mention of physical abuse, and emotional abuse tends to swing in every direction, not just one to another. I question your persuing a crush while supposedly in a marriage and living in the same house. It certainly can't help a marriage if that is what you really want. If you want out, get out. Like it was mentioned, money for surgery but not for divorce makes no sense. Mothers pretty much have to be caught with the bloody knife in hand to loose their kids, no joke. So I wouldn't worry about losing custody if you are not completetly batshit crazy.

If the car is not in your name, let him pay for it and buy yourself a new car. If the house is your, kick him out, get a restraining order.

Take a fair approach. Do not try to prevent him from seeing his child. Separate and make it clear you want to work out something fair and ask family court to help with that. If you go down the his fault her fault demonizing route your child will hate you both eventually. Is that what you really want?

In the same respect regarding self esteem, you must hold your behaviors to the same level of responsibility. Do not let another persons abusive and manipulative tactics become your excuse to go down to their level of asshole behavior. It is your responsibility to yourself to be the person you want to be to yourself and your daughter and even to your enemies. If you excuse your behaviors by blaming others than you are as bad as they are. Be good to everyone, especially yourself, and take steps to create a home environment that is safe and free of drama and tension. That means letting go of the marriage and separating and creating a new life for yourself. ONce you do this you will be ready to meet new people. Clearly right now is not the RIGHT time for your crush. You are not even divorced. That is crazy to think some guy would want to be with you while you are still married. Clearly this guy wants a love and is persuing it. So accept that even if he were still single, IT WOULD NOT BE THE RIGHT TIME BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT TAKEN CARE OF YOUR LIFE TO BE READY FOR MR. CRUSH. It is on you not him. Get divorced. Then who knows? He could be single again by then, and impressed with how you have gotten your life together.

Take care!

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