2000 Ravens vs 2012 Ravens

articles.baltimoresun.com...cco-ravens

iaminparties said:2000 Ravens Defense-The best ever

LE-Rob Burnett

LT-Sam Adams

RT-Goose

RE-Michael McCrary

MLB-Prime Ray Lewis

OLB-Peter Boulware

OLB-Jamie Sharper

CB-Duane Starks

CB-Chris McCallister

FS-Kim Herring

SS-Rod Woodson

I'll take the'85 Bears & '75 Steelers 'D' over the '00 Ravens.

*old post*

[Edited 2/5/13 16:01pm]

iaminparties said:

2000 Ravens Defense-The best ever

LE-Rob Burnett

LT-Sam Adams

RT-Goose

RE-Michael McCrary

MLB-Prime Ray Lewis

OLB-Peter Boulware

OLB-Jamie Sharper

CB-Duane Starks

CB-Chris McCallister

FS-Kim Herring

SS-Rod Woodson

\

Not so fast, the Steel Curtain and 85 Bears fielded defenses that AT A MINIMUM were as good as the Ravens' 2000 defense. Hell, a case can be made for the 86 Giants for that matter, and the defenses of the Niners and Cowboys of the early 90's were no joke either. The Iggles' Gang Green defense of the early 90's (when Jerome Brown was alive) was overpowering.

I'll take the defensive line of the Steel Curtain and Gang Green over the 00 Ravens' line all day every day.

Has there been a better defense SINCE the 2000 Ravens? Nope unless you want to count the 2001 Ravens. But best EVER? Not going there.

TonyVanDam said:

namepeace said:

I think the officiating was passable, but there was more after-the-whistle confrontations, shoving, etc. that doesn't belong on the Biggest Stage. One of those mixups almost turned into a brawl. At times it reminded me of the games covered by replacement refs.

SF played right into BAL's hands with their red-zone calls, failing to get Kaepernick out in space or exploit matchups.

Actually, I wish we can have THAT^ in the NFL Superbowl more often! Pushing, shoving, AND trash-talking can enhance the drama of the game. We just don't want anyone throwing fists, that's all.

the talk is always there, and the Cowboys and Steelers used to mug QBs in the SB.

there will always be "bidness" after the whistle, but it almost turned into a brawl.

The crew really didn't have a firm handle on the game.

uPtoWnNY said:

iaminparties said:2000 Ravens Defense-The best ever

LE-Rob Burnett

LT-Sam Adams

RT-Goose

RE-Michael McCrary

MLB-Prime Ray Lewis

OLB-Peter Boulware

OLB-Jamie Sharper

CB-Duane Starks

CB-Chris McCallister

FS-Kim Herring

SS-Rod Woodson

I'll take the'85 Bears & '75 Steelers 'D' over the '00 Ravens.

The 1976 Steelers defense was even better than those. The Steelers had already one

back to back Super Bowls and got off to a 1-4 start after the Browns Turkey Jones spiked

Terry Bradshaw head first in the ground. The Steelers didn't lose another game the rest

of the regular season and the defense posted 5 shutouts in that stretch and rookie qb

Mike Kruczek went 6-0 in Bradshaw's absence. The Steelers went on the road to play the

Baltimore Colts and won 40-14. A small plane also crashed into the stadium after the game. The steelers lost both rbs Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier to injuries and it cost

them big time in the AFC Championship game loss to Oakland 24-7. That was probably

the best Steelers team to not win a Super Bowl.

uPtoWnNY said:

iaminparties said:2000 Ravens Defense-The best ever

LE-Rob Burnett

LT-Sam Adams

RT-Goose

RE-Michael McCrary

MLB-Prime Ray Lewis

OLB-Peter Boulware

OLB-Jamie Sharper

CB-Duane Starks

CB-Chris McCallister

FS-Kim Herring

SS-Rod Woodson

I'll take the'85 Bears & '75 Steelers 'D' over the '00 Ravens.

The 1975 Steelers played in the dead ball era,when passing game was obsolete and defensive backs like Mel Blount could mugged receivers well past 5 years down the field.

I say 70s Steelers had best defense in NFL history for extended time,but for one singular year,it's 2000 Ravens or 85 Bears.I pick Ravens.

phunkdaddy said:

uPtoWnNY said:

iaminparties said:2000 Ravens Defense-The best ever

LE-Rob Burnett

LT-Sam Adams

RT-Goose

RE-Michael McCrary

MLB-Prime Ray Lewis

OLB-Peter Boulware

OLB-Jamie Sharper

CB-Duane Starks

CB-Chris McCallister

FS-Kim Herring

SS-Rod Woodson

I'll take the'85 Bears & '75 Steelers 'D' over the '00 Ravens.

The 1976 Steelers defense was even better than those. The Steelers had already one

back to back Super Bowls and got off to a 1-4 start after the Browns Turkey Jones spiked

Terry Bradshaw head first in the ground. The Steelers didn't lose another game the rest

of the regular season and the defense posted 5 shutouts in that stretch and rookie qb

Mike Kruczek went 6-0 in Bradshaw's absence. The Steelers went on the road to play the

Baltimore Colts and won 40-14. A small plane also crashed into the stadium after the game. The steelers lost both rbs Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier to injuries and it cost

them big time in the AFC Championship game loss to Oakland 24-7. That was probably

the best Steelers team to not win a Super Bowl.

1976 Steelers didn't championship-CASED CLOSED

Ravens won Superbowl with Trent freaking Dilfer as their quarterback.nuff said.

namepeace said:

iaminparties said:

2000 Ravens Defense-The best ever

LE-Rob Burnett

LT-Sam Adams

RT-Goose

RE-Michael McCrary

MLB-Prime Ray Lewis

OLB-Peter Boulware

OLB-Jamie Sharper

CB-Duane Starks

CB-Chris McCallister

FS-Kim Herring

SS-Rod Woodson

\

Not so fast, the Steel Curtain and 85 Bears fielded defenses that AT A MINIMUM were as good as the Ravens' 2000 defense. Hell, a case can be made for the 86 Giants for that matter, and the defenses of the Niners and Cowboys of the early 90's were no joke either. The Iggles' Gang Green defense of the early 90's (when Jerome Brown was alive) was overpowering.

I'll take the defensive line of the Steel Curtain and Gang Green over the 00 Ravens' line all day every day.

Has there been a better defense SINCE the 2000 Ravens? Nope unless you want to count the 2001 Ravens. But best EVER? Not going there.

early 90s Cowboys and 49ers defenses-Not close to the calibur of 2000 Ravens or 85 Bears.

1986 Giants-Secondary got shredded in the big game by Broncos.

You look at star power probally.The Jets sack exchange and Steel curtain had the big names on D-line and could sack the quarterback.But Ravens D-line was immovable force.You couldn't run on them with the massive tackles.Rob Burnett played all world PRO that year.McCrary was also great.The D-line set the tone for Ravens defense and the big tackles would take on 4 O-lineman which free the Defensive ends to go one on one and prime Ray Lewis roaming free and fucking up the opposing offense.

My criteria for best defense in NFL history(Superbowl era)

Dominated the regular season

Dominated the playoffs

Dominated the big game-superbowl

The 85 Bears and 2000 Ravens meet this criteria.I still say Baltimore had the better defense.The secondary was much better.The front seven was about equal.One better stopping the run,the other better getting after QB.,The 85 Bears defense was a little gimmick,relying on the 46,overcrowding the line of scrimmage and sending more people than O-line can protect.they had the personal to do it.The league caught up to this strategy.

The Ravens could beat with a basic defense and lineup and play you straight up. and maul and destroy you,because they were more talented than the opposing offense and 85 Bears defense.

2000 Ravens defense-

165 points allowed fewest in 16 game schedule

23 points allowed in 4 playoff games-7 pts Special teams TD in SB

SuperBowl-0 points allowed

Giants 16 offensive possesions- 0 pts and 152 yards total offense

I think the competition was stiffer and better for Ravens than 1985 Bears.Ravens faced two offenses in playoffs that scored near 500 points,which was unheard when Bears played in 85.The Giants were much worthy foe in Superbowl than the Tony Eason led Patriots.

Ask a Giants fan what they think of the 2000 Ravens defense.As Brian Billick said,they were all farts and giggles after the NFC championship game scoring 41 points.

Ask them about Ray Lewis tracking Tiki Barber on a sideway sweep and seamingly breaking up every pass in middle of the field.The brilliant play of the secondary,Starks impeccable jump and read pick 6,Chris McAlister making Toomer and Hiliard complete non factor when guarding them.

They couldn't run or pass or do anything.

iaminparties said:

My criteria for best defense in NFL history(Superbowl era)

Dominated the regular season

Dominated the playoffs

Dominated the big game-superbowl

The 85 Bears and 2000 Ravens meet this criteria.I still say Baltimore had the better defense.The secondary was much better.The front seven was about equal.One better stopping the run,the other better getting after QB.,The 85 Bears defense was a little gimmick,relying on the 46,overcrowding the line of scrimmage and sending more people than O-line can protect.they had the personal to do it.The league caught up to this strategy.

The Ravens could beat with a basic defense and lineup and play you straight up. and maul and destroy you,because they were more talented than the opposing offense and 85 Bears defense.

Since the 85 Bears, Many teams, including the 2000 Ravens, used "46" sets. No one could do it all the time once offenses adjusted to it, but because they had quality corners, the 00 Ravens could afford to stack the LOS with 46 sets at times. The 00 Titans experienced that first-hand.

And your statement in terms of talent is just . . . well, generally inaccurate.

The HOFers on the 00 defense are Ray Lewis (SB MVP) and Rod Woodson, who was nearing the end of his career. The 85 Bears? Three: Singletary, Hampton and Dent (SB MVP). A decent argument can be made for the 00 Ravens' secondary, particularly at safety, but defensive line isn't a contest (85 Bears with 2 HOFers) and the LB corps isn't a cut-and-dried Ravens advantage (Boulware played fantastically alongside Lewis in space and as a hand-on-ground pass rusher, and Sharper had a nice season, but Wilber Marshall and Otis Wilson were great players and Mike Singletary doesn't take a backseat to Ray Lewis).

"Most recent great defense" does not translate to "greatest defense of all time." I saw both play, and neither holds a decided advantage over the other.

[Edited 2/6/13 14:59pm]

[Edited 2/6/13 15:37pm]

iaminparties said:

namepeace said:

\

Not so fast, the Steel Curtain and 85 Bears fielded defenses that AT A MINIMUM were as good as the Ravens' 2000 defense. Hell, a case can be made for the 86 Giants for that matter, and the defenses of the Niners and Cowboys of the early 90's were no joke either. The Iggles' Gang Green defense of the early 90's (when Jerome Brown was alive) was overpowering.

I'll take the defensive line of the Steel Curtain and Gang Green over the 00 Ravens' line all day every day.

Has there been a better defense SINCE the 2000 Ravens? Nope unless you want to count the 2001 Ravens. But best EVER? Not going there.

early 90s Cowboys and 49ers defenses-Not close to the calibur of 2000 Ravens or 85 Bears.

Saying that in a conclusory manner doesn't make it true. Both defenses boasted Deion Sanders and Charles Haley at different points. The Cowboys had a stellar defensive line, and an outstanding Wooden playing safety as well -- Darren Woodson.

1986 Giants-Secondary got shredded in the big game by Broncos.

The Giants dealt with John Elway in his prime. The Ravens? Kerry Collins. So that doesn't hold.

While we're at it, that '86 Giants destroyed the Montana-Rice Niners, who had an offense better than any the 00 Ravens faced. Arguably the best team the Ravens played in that SB run was the Titans, who were not any better than the Redskins team the Jints shut out to get to the Super Bowl.

You look at star power probally

And you didn't see these other teams play and disregard history, probably.

.The Jets sack exchange and Steel curtain had the big names on D-line and could sack the quarterback.But Ravens D-line was immovable force.You couldn't run on them with the massive tackles.Rob Burnett played all world PRO that year.McCrary was also great.The D-line set the tone for Ravens defense and the big tackles would take on 4 O-lineman which free the Defensive ends to go one on one and prime Ray Lewis roaming free and fucking up the opposing offense.

You're implying that the defensive line for the Ravens was head and shoulders above the 76 Steelers defensive line? Sam Adams was a really good football player, and made the Pro Bowl in 2000, but better than Joe Greene or L.C. Greenwood, who also made the Pro Bowl in 1976? The Steelers D-Line also occupied blockers and freed up their own (HOF) linebackers to make plays in space too.

Heck, pick any of the SB years the Steelers had and they take a back seat to no Defensive unit, including the 00 Ravens.

The 00 Ravens are an historically great defense, but just because they're the most recent doesn't make them the greatest.

[Edited 2/6/13 15:22pm]

[Edited 2/6/13 15:39pm]

iaminparties said:

Ask a Giants fan what they think of the 2000 Ravens defense.As Brian Billick said,they were all farts and giggles after the NFC championship game scoring 41 points.

Ask them about Ray Lewis tracking Tiki Barber on a sideway sweep and seamingly breaking up every pass in middle of the field.The brilliant play of the secondary,Starks impeccable jump and read pick 6,Chris McAlister making Toomer and Hiliard complete non factor when guarding them.

They couldn't run or pass or do anything.

You mean one of the worst offensive units ever to play in a Super Bowl?

Context is essential.

iaminparties said:

2000 Ravens defense-

165 points allowed fewest in 16 game schedule

23 points allowed in 4 playoff games-7 pts Special teams TD in SB

SuperBowl-0 points allowed

Giants 16 offensive possesions- 0 pts and 152 yards total offense

I think the competition was stiffer and better for Ravens than 1985 Bears.Ravens faced two offenses in playoffs that scored near 500 points,which was unheard when Bears played in 85.The Giants were much worthy foe in Superbowl than the Tony Eason led Patriots.

The 1985 Patriots were 11-5 and scored more points over the course of the regular season than the 12-4 2000 Giants. Saying the competition in 2000 (post-expansion) is better than it was in 1985 doesn't make it true.

The 00 Ravens' statistical advantages are minimal, and the 85 Bears pitched 2 shutouts in the playoffs.

You can make the argument, but you seem to be saying the last great defense is the greatest and that simply isn't true. Are you a Ravens fan?

here i am at the victory rally at city hall--near the bottom--middle of the screen blacka nd white jacket, black hat awesome!!

Fury said:

here i am at the victory rally at city hall--near the bottom--middle of the screen blacka nd white jacket, black hat awesome!!

I see you!

iaminparties said:

phunkdaddy said:

The 1976 Steelers defense was even better than those. The Steelers had already one

back to back Super Bowls and got off to a 1-4 start after the Browns Turkey Jones spiked

Terry Bradshaw head first in the ground. The Steelers didn't lose another game the rest

of the regular season and the defense posted 5 shutouts in that stretch and rookie qb

Mike Kruczek went 6-0 in Bradshaw's absence. The Steelers went on the road to play the

Baltimore Colts and won 40-14. A small plane also crashed into the stadium after the game. The steelers lost both rbs Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier to injuries and it cost

them big time in the AFC Championship game loss to Oakland 24-7. That was probably

the best Steelers team to not win a Super Bowl.

1976 Steelers didn't championship-CASED CLOSED

Ravens won Superbowl with Trent freaking Dilfer as their quarterback.nuff said.

We're talking best defenses here. Not who won the Super Bowl. The Ravens 2000

defense couldn't hold a candle to the 1976 Steelers defense. Do your research.

1976 the Steelers defense allowed a total of 28 points with 5 shutouts over the

final 9 games. That is sick! Insane! The 2000 Ravens defense allowed 90 points

over the last nine games with 1 shutout. Proof is in the pudding.

The 1985 Bears defense allowed 93 points over the last 9 games with 2 shutouts.

iaminparties said:

2000 Ravens defense-

165 points allowed fewest in 16 game schedule

23 points allowed in 4 playoff games-7 pts Special teams TD in SB

SuperBowl-0 points allowed

Giants 16 offensive possesions- 0 pts and 152 yards total offense

I think the competition was stiffer and better for Ravens than 1985 Bears.Ravens faced two offenses in playoffs that scored near 500 points,which was unheard when Bears played in 85.The Giants were much worthy foe in Superbowl than the Tony Eason led Patriots.

1976 Steelers defense allowed 119 points in 14 game schedule

You said it best, namepeace. Just because the Ravens had the last great defense doesn't make them the best all-time. If we're talking one year, the 2000 Ravens would be behind the 85 Bears and 75 Steelers.

While we're on the subject of great defenses, what about the Eagles and Saints from 1991? Look up their stats. According to Football Outsiders, the 1991 Eagles were better balanced on defense than the 2000 Ravens AND the 2002 Bucs.

[Edited 2/7/13 3:51am]

Here are the top10 defenses according to the Bleacher Report. The main criteria is the defense had to show consistent dominance for at least three years or more.

1) Pittsburgh's Steel Curtain (1970s)

2) Vikings Purple People Eaters 1969-1976

3) Packers (1960s)

4) LA Rams Fearsome Foursome I & II

5) Cowboys Doomsday Defense I & II

6) Bears 1984-1988

7) Dolphins No-Name Defense 1970-1975

8) Giants 1985-1990

9) Broncos Orange Crush 1977-1981

10) Chiefs (late 60s - early 70s)

The author left off the 1991 Eagles, 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs because in his opinion, they were great for only a short period. Interesting.

[Edited 2/7/13 3:47am]

uPtoWnNY said:

Here are the top10 defenses according to the Bleacher Report. The main criteria is the defense had to show consistent dominance for at least three years or more.

1) Pittsburgh's Steel Curtain (1970s)

2) Vikings Purple People Eaters 1969-1976

3) Packers (1960s)

4) LA Rams Fearsome Foursome I & II

5) Cowboys Doomsday Defense I & II

6) Bears 1984-1988

7) Dolphins No-Name Defense 1970-1975

8) Giants 1985-1990

9) Broncos Orange Crush 1977-1981

10) Chiefs (late 60s - early 70s)

The author left off the 1991 Eagles, 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs because in his opinion, they were great for only a short period. Interesting.

[Edited 2/7/13 3:47am]

The Bleacher Report? My little niece can write for that website.A bunch of bloggers who's main interest is getting the most reads.The average joe can write for that website

I was talking one year,not 3 years.1996 Bulls and 1927 Yankees are regarded as best teams in their sport.A singular year.You have the greatest teams all time list,which specifically ponts to one year.

No different than great Nfl defenses.1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens played the best defense in modern era.

Holy trinity

1970s Steel Curtain-Long term the best

1985 Bears

2000 Ravens-Best for one year just like Bears

uPtoWnNY said:

You said it best, namepeace. Just because the Ravens had the last great defense doesn't make them the best all-time. If we're talking one year, the 2000 Ravens would be behind the 85 Bears and 75 Steelers.

While we're on the subject of great defenses, what about the Eagles and Saints from 1991? Look up their stats. According to Football Outsiders, the 1991 Eagles were better balanced on defense than the 2000 Ravens AND the 2002 Bucs.

[Edited 2/7/13 3:51am]

I mentioned the Gang Green D in Reply 19. You're right. Reggie White and Jerome Brown (Warren Sapp before Warren Sapp, had HOF potential) were fearsome, and Clyde Simmons and Seth Joyner were fearsome. Eric Allen was a legit shutdown corner.

The 1991 Saints had one of the best linebacking corps of the era, and were the heart of their best pre-Payton/Brees teams.

There's only a little room separating a lot of these historic defenses, including the 2000 Ravens.

There are a lot of factors that you can debate -- talent, quality of competition, statistical production.

uPtoWnNY said:

Here are the top10 defenses according to the Bleacher Report. The main criteria is the defense had to show consistent dominance for at least three years or more.

1) Pittsburgh's Steel Curtain (1970s)

2) Vikings Purple People Eaters 1969-1976

3) Packers (1960s)

4) LA Rams Fearsome Foursome I & II

5) Cowboys Doomsday Defense I & II

6) Bears 1984-1988

7) Dolphins No-Name Defense 1970-1975

8) Giants 1985-1990

9) Broncos Orange Crush 1977-1981

10) Chiefs (late 60s - early 70s)

The author left off the 1991 Eagles, 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs because in his opinion, they were great for only a short period. Interesting.

[Edited 2/7/13 3:47am]

Yeah the Vikings were some nasty motherfuckers too. Carl Eller and Allen Page were no joke.

The Fearsome Foursome were before my time but i saw tape. Deacon Jones, Rosey

Grier and crew were just downright disrespectful.

Deacon Jones was a bad man. Right up there with LT, Butkus and Reggie White as one of the best defensive players ever.

uPtoWnNY said:

Deacon Jones was a bad man. Right up there with LT, Butkus and Reggie White as one of the best defensive players ever.

Had they been kept sack statistics -- heck, if the "sack" had even been a "thing" to track -- Jones might be "SacKing" today.

Shit, Deacon Jones is still a bad mfer.

As for the HOF, I was shocked Charles Haley didn't get in. I would have picked him over Sapp and my man Strahan.