I have no words.

paintedlady said:

I do not think guns are the issue.... this guy would have taken ANY opportunity to kill. His rage led him to FIND a gun and do evil.

Its the "rage" I take issue with... mental health issues are ignored here, unless you want to pop pills.

Many do not seek help and many family menbers never want to come to terms with any dysfunctional behaviors they witness and live in denial hoping issues will just "go away".

Social cues and behaviors are at a down turn to non-fuctional, people have no coping skills and live their lives through a computer screen. Hell, people do not even know how to talk to one another, let alone know how to communicate to reavh out during a time of crisis.

People are just becomming bigger assholes that feel entitled to do and say what ever they please, and now thanks to inforamtion at your finger tips you can now arm yourself through Craig's List and go on a rampage if someone fucks with you.

People are smarter and angrier... people are more likely to care about a random puppy than they are about their sick elderly neighbor.

We can only blame ouselves and we need to start learning how to care about other people.

OK... sorry about the venting... I am upset.

I agree with you completely. There needs to be serious discussions and actions going on that are a lot deeper than just gun control. Mental health facilities in this country have been gutted because there's no profit to be made from actually treating people. The money is in the medication. Unfortunately, the medication is making things worse. Just listen to side effects that are mentioned on commercials for anti-depressants.

Add that with the constant bombardment of the glorification of violence, all for the sake of somebody making money and we've got situations like today just waiting to happen, anytime and anywhere.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

paintedlady said:

I do not think guns are the issue.... this guy would have taken ANY opportunity to kill. His rage led him to FIND a gun and do evil.

Its the "rage" I take issue with... mental health issues are ignored here, unless you want to pop pills.

Many do not seek help and many family menbers never want to come to terms with any dysfunctional behaviors they witness and live in denial hoping issues will just "go away".

Social cues and behaviors are at a down turn to non-fuctional, people have no coping skills and live their lives through a computer screen. Hell, people do not even know how to talk to one another, let alone know how to communicate to reavh out during a time of crisis.

People are just becomming bigger assholes that feel entitled to do and say what ever they please, and now thanks to inforamtion at your finger tips you can now arm yourself through Craig's List and go on a rampage if someone fucks with you.

People are smarter and angrier... people are more likely to care about a random puppy than they are about their sick elderly neighbor.

We can only blame ouselves and we need to start learning how to care about other people.

OK... sorry about the venting... I am upset.

I agree with you completely. There needs to be serious discussions and actions going on that are a lot deeper than just gun control. Mental health facilities in this country have been gutted because there's no profit to be made from actually treating people. The money is in the medication. Unfortunately, the medication is making things worse. Just listen to side effects that are mentioned on commercials for anti-depressants.

Add that with the constant bombardment of the glorification of violence, all for the sake of somebody making money and we've got situations like today just waiting to happen, anytime and anywhere.

nd33 said:

paintedlady said:

No amount of gun control laws will stop a mad man.

They will find a way to kill.

It's infinitely harder to kill 28 people without access to a gun.

If he had a knife and went on a rampage, he'd be doing well to get a couple of victims at most.

People kill people but guns make it nice and easy.

exactly!

does anyone else find it fu$%ing ridiculous that a school teacher had 2 hand guns & an asault rifle?

i mean what is the fu^%ing limit???

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

paintedlady said:

I do not think guns are the issue.... this guy would have taken ANY opportunity to kill. His rage led him to FIND a gun and do evil.

Its the "rage" I take issue with... mental health issues are ignored here, unless you want to pop pills.

Many do not seek help and many family menbers never want to come to terms with any dysfunctional behaviors they witness and live in denial hoping issues will just "go away".

Social cues and behaviors are at a down turn to non-fuctional, people have no coping skills and live their lives through a computer screen. Hell, people do not even know how to talk to one another, let alone know how to communicate to reavh out during a time of crisis.

People are just becomming bigger assholes that feel entitled to do and say what ever they please, and now thanks to inforamtion at your finger tips you can now arm yourself through Craig's List and go on a rampage if someone fucks with you.

People are smarter and angrier... people are more likely to care about a random puppy than they are about their sick elderly neighbor.

We can only blame ouselves and we need to start learning how to care about other people.

OK... sorry about the venting... I am upset.

I agree with you completely. There needs to be serious discussions and actions going on that are a lot deeper than just gun control. Mental health facilities in this country have been gutted because there's no profit to be made from actually treating people. The money is in the medication. Unfortunately, the medication is making things worse. Just listen to side effects that are mentioned on commercials for anti-depressants.

Add that with the constant bombardment of the glorification of violence, all for the sake of somebody making money and we've got situations like today just waiting to happen, anytime and anywhere.

I raised the exact same issues in the other thread. People who lack coping skills, lack impulse control or are otherwise mentally or emotionally unstable are the very ones most vulnerable to the constant glorification of violence in this society as the be all and end all solution to everything. The crumbling mental health infrastructure only exacerbates that problem.

But we have to be careful not to dismiss other equally important aspects of the issue such as lax firearms regulations...too often we want to see these things as an either/or problem when the reality is that a more holistic solution is what is needed the most.

sonic said:

nd33 said:

It's infinitely harder to kill 28 people without access to a gun.

If he had a knife and went on a rampage, he'd be doing well to get a couple of victims at most.

People kill people but guns make it nice and easy.

exactly!

does anyone else find it fu$%ing ridiculous that a school teacher had 2 hand guns & an asault rifle?

i mean what is the fu^%ing limit???

I absolutely cannot wrap my brain around that either. I almost want to think that he used his mom's identity to make the purchase just like he was carrying his brothers ID when he committied the murders.

I wonder if he could have registered them in her name without her knowledge???

babynoz said:

sonic said:

exactly!

does anyone else find it fu$%ing ridiculous that a school teacher had 2 hand guns & an asault rifle?

i mean what is the fu^%ing limit???

I absolutely cannot wrap my brain around that either. I almost want to think that he used his mom's identity to make the purchase just like he was carrying his brothers ID when he committied the murders.

I wonder if he could have registered them in her name without her knowledge???

i was thinking the same thing!

missfee said:

paintedlady said:

GetAwayFromMe said:

missfee said:

I don't mean any harm but I know I'll probably get flack for this anyway, but I'm going to say it, I think these incidents go way deeper than gun control laws. These cowards who go into these public places killing innocent people go in with intentions to KILL targets. Point blank. Guns are the weapon-yes, guns are easy to access - yes...however the real issue here is not the weapon used, it's whatever is driving folks to casually walk into these places killing innocent adults and little children as if it's an acceptable way to handle their life frustrations. If there were no such thing as guns available or even if gun laws were changed....then SOME OTHER WEAPON would had been used regardless. It's appalling and it really isn't known how to prevent such tragedies-which to me, is the scary part.

[Edited 12/14/12 13:13pm]

Yeah, but it's a whole lot easier to use a gun than any other weapon, it's faster. I'm sick over this. We should all go back to hand to hand combat, only pussies use guns.

Nah we live in different times now. It'll never go back to that. Especially since they can still bring guns or knives. That's not the solution.

paintedlady said:

Tittypants said:

That's what I'm saying...it's the people that are the real issues!

No amount of gun control laws will stop a mad man.

They will find a way to kill.

He'd have probably killed his parents, but I sincerely doubt he'd be able to slaughter 20 children at the same time without being stopped.

Ellie said:

paintedlady said:

No amount of gun control laws will stop a mad man.

They will find a way to kill.

He'd have probably killed his parents, but I sincerely doubt he'd be able to slaughter 20 children at the same time without being stopped.

Unless he would have planted a bomb in the school...then we wouldn't be talking about just 20 children and 7 adults...we'd be talking about more deaths. I agree with paintedlady...if a person wants to kill, then they will. This issue goes way beyond gun control.

missfee said:

Ellie said:

He'd have probably killed his parents, but I sincerely doubt he'd be able to slaughter 20 children at the same time without being stopped.

Unless he would have planted a bomb in the school...then we wouldn't be talking about just 20 children and 7 adults...we'd be talking about more deaths. I agree with paintedlady...if a person wants to kill, then they will. This issue goes way beyond gun control.

But the ease of access regarding guns isn't comparable to getting or building a bomb for example. The notion that we can't stop each and every person from going on a killing spree doesn't mean that we should make it easy for them to do it.

Again, I just don't think that it's an either/or issue. A combination of factors contributes to the problem and it's gonna take a combination of strategies to address it.

uniden said:

babynoz said:

I absolutely cannot wrap my brain around that either. I almost want to think that he used his mom's identity to make the purchase just like he was carrying his brothers ID when he committied the murders.

I wonder if he could have registered them in her name without her knowledge???

i was thinking the same thing!

The latest reports this morning from friends and neighbors say that the mom was a gun enthusiast who regularly went to the range and sometimes took her sons...go figure?

I guess ya just never know...maybe she was trying to teach them about firearms in a responsible way. Talk about unintended consequences!

babynoz said:

uniden said:

i was thinking the same thing!

The latest reports this morning from friends and neighbors say that the mom was a gun enthusiast who regularly went to the range and sometimes took her sons...go figure?

I guess ya just never know...maybe she was trying to teach them about firearms in a responsible way. Talk about unintended consequences!

wow!

2gsom said:

This right here should tell Americans something.

I don't understand why supporters of NRA can ignore these figures. What do they need with these guns that fire multiple rounds like AK-47s and such? I can see the need in war and police forces, but for the everyday Joe, no excuse for owning one of these weapons. ALL should be outlawed and laws passed to prohibit the sale and ownership of all automatic assault weapons to private citizens. There is just no reason whatsoever that these types of guns should be allowed in the hands of average citizens.

Shyra said:

Shyra said:

2gsom said:

This right here should tell Americans something.

I don't understand why supporters of NRA can ignore these figures. What do they need with these guns that fire multiple rounds like AK-47s and such? I can see the need in war and police forces, but for the everyday Joe, no excuse for owning one of these weapons. ALL should be outlawed and laws passed to prohibit the sale and ownership of all automatic assault weapons to private citizens. There is just no reason whatsoever that these types of guns should be allowed in the hands of average citizens.

EXACTLY!

[img:$uid]http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/SexyBeautifulOne/Political%20Thoughts/and121612blog1.jpg[/img:$uid]

SweeTeaII said:

Imo the problem is violent ideo games that contribute to a retardation of social skills including conflict resolution skills. I remember back in the day bruce lee had all the young boys psyced up and folks were getting hit upside the head with knunchucks made from broken broom handles nails and pieces of the grls jumpropes. My brother jumped down a flight of stairs with a towel tied around his neck cuz he thought he could fly like superman. smh so what do violent video games do to people who play all day long? u have a disagreement with another individual and u blast off realizing u done fucked up cuz this aint no video game then off urself...geez or maybe he is a mancharian candidate cuz nobody in thier rite mind would dsuch a vile act

That's just a symptom of the problem, as is music, movies, new reports, etc. The gloryfication of violence as the solution to everything is the disease that's festering throughout our society and killing us from within.

Shyra said:

2gsom said:

n

This right here should tell Americans something.

I don't understand why supporters of NRA can ignore these figures. What do they need with these guns that fire multiple rounds like AK-47s and such? I can see the need in war and police forces, but for the everyday Joe, no excuse for owning one of these weapons. ALL should be outlawed and laws passed to prohibit the sale and ownership of all automatic assault weapons to private citizens. There is just no reason whatsoever that these types of guns should be allowed in the hands of average citizens.

thankfully we do not NEED a reason. we have a right! no reason needed. I think that is one of the reason we have rights wriiten down as a matter of law, so that we can not lose the just because some think we do not need to partake in a given activity.

everybody say "GUN CONTROL"

i think the problem is multi faceted. america is a hugely violent culture. our sports, video games, books and movies reflect this. combined with unnoticed mental illlness or extreme situational depression in a person this can be a recipe for disaster in any community.

http://www.businessinside...ty-2012-10

http://www.ithp.org/artic...games.html

[Edited 12/15/12 16:23pm]

The soundtrack I'm hearing in my most hurtful mind is Jane Siberry's Calling All Angels

There are simply no words.....

May God Bless them all and Peace Be Still..

I cannot imagine the pain and anguish these parents are feeling. May our Lord have Mercy on their souls and spirits...

RIP to all who have lost their lives.

Someone with YT skills can hopefully post it for all to share.

the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRUErh47sao

[Edited 12/15/12 18:37pm]

Shyra said:

2gsom said:

This right here should tell Americans something.

I don't understand why supporters of NRA can ignore these figures. What do they need with these guns that fire multiple rounds like AK-47s and such? I can see the need in war and police forces, but for the everyday Joe, no excuse for owning one of these weapons. ALL should be outlawed and laws passed to prohibit the sale and ownership of all automatic assault weapons to private citizens. There is just no reason whatsoever that these types of guns should be allowed in the hands of average citizens.

YES, this definitely means ALOT.

But I don't necessarily think it's all about gun control.

Look at that list. Not all those countries ban guns. In fact, SWITZERLAND does not have an army and instead opts to have armed citizens ready for militias. They have dangerous weapons. WHY THEN, don't THEY have thousands of deaths in a nation of 8,000,000 people?

There are underlying issues in this country that aren't being addressed.

truely horrific, it defies comprehension

SweeTeaII said:

Imo the problem is violent ideo games that contribute to a retardation of social skills including conflict resolution skills. I remember back in the day bruce lee had all the young boys psyced up and folks were getting hit upside the head with knunchucks made from broken broom handles nails and pieces of the grls jumpropes. My brother jumped down a flight of stairs with a towel tied around his neck cuz he thought he could fly like superman. smh so what do violent video games do to people who play all day long? u have a disagreement with another individual and u blast off realizing u done fucked up cuz this aint no video game then off urself...geez or maybe he is a mancharian candidate cuz nobody in thier rite mind would dsuch a vile act

I think blaming video games and their possible links to social interaction is a bit of a stretch. I've been a gamer for years, from Sim City to Call of Duty and I have never once considered carrying out violent deeds. We don't even know if the evil b*rstard that carried out these shootings was a gamer, and to assume so just because he's a young male is a very presumptuous.

The problems that lead to people like this committing these horrible acts are way more complicated than video games or movies...they may be a small contributing part but my guess is the issues are already there even before these wackos pick up a joypad.

Having such an ease of access to guns is a much more serious issues...Michael Moore pointed this out years ago with Bowling for Columbine. Sadly, nothing changed as a result...and even more sadly I expect this latest tragedy will have absolute no affect on gun ownerships and laws in the USA either.

oh yeah... video games! I am shocked it took them this long to get to video games.

2gsom said:

Not that I disagree with the premise, but that is more than 23 years old. West Germany hasn't been a country since 1990.