Serious said:

JoeTyler said:

it depends

for me, the only unfair thing is the fact that some people are healthier than others

other than that, I'd say that HUMANS/SOCIETY are not fair; Life is pretty straightforward/uncomplicated if u think about it...

I don't agree with any of that.

Life is complicated and not easy at all. And there are so many things that are unfair apart from health. What family you are born into, in what country and society you grow up, how intelligent you are, how good looking you are, what talents you have or don't have and all kind of things that happen to you in your life you cannot influence. Not too mention your personality that is not only shaped by your life experiences, but also a lot by your genes and that makes a huge difference all your life .

hmmmm, I think that, other than the intelligence/genes thing (it's true that we can't do nothing about it) the rest falls into the HUMANS/SOCIETY category, so I still think I'm right, lol

oh, and I don't believe in "talent", more like opportunity, practice and motivation

[Edited 6/6/12 14:36pm]

JustErin said:Totally not fair but making the best of it is all we can do.

TRUTH

Rococo said:

"neurosis only attaches itself to, fertile ground where it can flourish, the thrill of fear"

...say what now...?

It's never fair but you have to make it work to the best of your ability. You can't always look for things to go your way because the world was not made like that.

the thrill of fear...

Genesia said:

One thing I should say about my parents is that they never delivered the "life's not fair" message with any sort of bitterness. It was just a fact. Sometimes the breaks go your way, sometimes they don't. But even if you don't always get everything you want, if you work hard and do the right thing, you'll usually wind up in a better place than you would have if you hadn't made the effort.

As a matter-of-fact statement it has a much greater effect.

artist76 said:

imago said:

All living things experience dukka. It's everywhere. (mods, do not fucking move this thread because this has been posted). Dukka translates to a pervasive dissatisfactory essence to all things. Sometimes, it's manifested as pleasure--but this is still dukka, because all pleasurable things pass, and you just end up missing them.

Anyways, this colors my every thought. In all things is this impermenance. My happiest relatives growing up were my first cousins once removed....this was 30 years ago. Where are they now? One just recently passed away after a long bought with a degenerative condition, the other had a stroke and is no longer very 'in touch'. One has all manner of health problems, and all are very unhappy. If you took a snapshot from 30 years, ago, it would have been very difficult to imagine this.

Those you love the most will be taken from you. You must be taken as well. I mean, can you imagine just how painful it is for every human being? And there is no end or stop to it. It just continues and continues endlessly.

But, for some reason, I don't think this is unfair. To say that it's unfair seems to put a moral imperative on life itself. Like there's some creator out there who allows it to happen. And that would be even more cruel to me. To me, life is just filled with dukka, but there's no fairness or unfairness to it---it just is....never ending, ceaseless..... I think it makes us more compassionate if we allow it to.

I consider myself to be VERY LUCKY. Life has dealt me all manner of painful experiences. The last few years has seen me vascilate between extreme lows, and numbed mid-tones....and yes, wonderful moments too.

Oh why am I typing this for all you fucks.

Fuck yall.

This is a very medieval sensibility. O fortuna, velut luna, statu variabilis...

And so the wheel of fortune spins round and round, one moment you're up the next you're down. And then you die.

^^And have a nice day to you too!

Someone obviously hacked into Imago's account.

MODS!!!!

Timmy84 said:

It's never fair but you have to make it work to the best of your ability. You can't always look for things to go YOUR WAY because the world was not made like that.

EXACTLY!!

Serious said:

PurpleJedi said:

Somewhere between "beauty" and "deformity".

Not a question of being "hot" but just having poor genes for certain things (narrow shoulders, weak jawline and wide waist on a guy, for example). And being short. That dude that suffered all those hideous operations to grow 6-inches is a prime example.

And nothing wrong with that at all. I am short myself (and happy about it BTW) and so were nearly all the men I ever felt attracted to in my life.

Still doesn't help me reach the boxes of cereal on the top shelves at the supermarket though.

JoeTyler said:

hmmmm, I think that, other than the intelligence/genes thing (it's true that we can't do nothing about it) the rest falls into the HUMANS/SOCIETY category, so I still think I'm right, lol

oh, and I don't believe in "talent", more like opportunity, practice and motivation

No...there are people born with a propensity to be good at something...a natural "talent".

ART for example. Some people are naturally able to draw and appreciate color schemes/perspective/shading/positive-negative space/etc.

Some people can practice their whole LIVES to be good artists and still fall short of something that a good High Schooler could produce.

Not fair, of course, but whatever.

JoeTyler said:

Serious said:

I don't agree with any of that.

Life is complicated and not easy at all. And there are so many things that are unfair apart from health. What family you are born into, in what country and society you grow up, how intelligent you are, how good looking you are, what talents you have or don't have and all kind of things that happen to you in your life you cannot influence. Not too mention your personality that is not only shaped by your life experiences, but also a lot by your genes and that makes a huge difference all your life .

hmmmm, I think that, other than the intelligence/genes thing (it's true that we can't do nothing about it) the rest falls into the HUMANS/SOCIETY category, so I still think I'm right, lol

oh, and I don't believe in "talent", more like opportunity, practice and motivation

[Edited 6/6/12 14:36pm]

So you consider it fair if one child is born in a 3rd world country where war is going on, where it is abused and neglected while another one is born into a loving family in a rich country?

Talents have nothing to do with opportunity, practice and motivation. When you are not talented in something you can practice how ever much you want you will never achieve nearly as much as somebody who is talented and doesn't put much effort into it. Yes you will improve, but there are limitations you cannot overcome.

[Edited 6/6/12 14:52pm]

uPtoWnNY said:

JustErin said:Totally not fair but making the best of it is all we can do.

TRUTH

uPtoWnNY said:

JustErin said:Totally not fair but making the best of it is all we can do.

TRUTH

I agree too

PurpleJedi said:

Serious said:

And nothing wrong with that at all. I am short myself (and happy about it BTW) and so were nearly all the men I ever felt attracted to in my life.

Still doesn't help me reach the boxes of cereal on the top shelves at the supermarket though.

I know that feeling and also the one at a concert when you can hardly see anything and the people next to you see just fine . Still it's not a major thing in every day life. But I guess it is harder for men, because for whatever reasons they are supposed to be tall . My boyfriend doesn't mind he is not very tall, but my ex would love to be taller and when we were still together I always told him then I probably would not have fallen in love with him .

Way too tired to type and forgot to give a hug edit

[Edited 6/6/12 14:54pm]

PurpleJedi said:

JoeTyler said:

hmmmm, I think that, other than the intelligence/genes thing (it's true that we can't do nothing about it) the rest falls into the HUMANS/SOCIETY category, so I still think I'm right, lol

oh, and I don't believe in "talent", more like opportunity, practice and motivation

No...there are people born with a propensity to be good at something...a natural "talent".

ART for example. Some people are naturally able to draw and appreciate color schemes/perspective/shading/positive-negative space/etc.

Some people can practice their whole LIVES to be good artists and still fall short of something that a good High Schooler could produce.

Not fair, of course, but whatever.

Or sports for example

PurpleJedi said:

JoeTyler said:

hmmmm, I think that, other than the intelligence/genes thing (it's true that we can't do nothing about it) the rest falls into the HUMANS/SOCIETY category, so I still think I'm right, lol

oh, and I don't believe in "talent", more like opportunity, practice and motivation

No...there are people born with a propensity to be good at something...a natural "talent".

well, that's true, but I still think that, with the due OPM everyone could do anything...

JoeTyler said:

PurpleJedi said:

No...there are people born with a propensity to be good at something...a natural "talent".

well, that's true, but I still think that, with the due OPM everyone could do anything...

No way

Serious said:

PurpleJedi said:

No...there are people born with a propensity to be good at something...a natural "talent".

ART for example. Some people are naturally able to draw and appreciate color schemes/perspective/shading/positive-negative space/etc.

Some people can practice their whole LIVES to be good artists and still fall short of something that a good High Schooler could produce.

Not fair, of course, but whatever.

Or sports for example

YES!!!

Lionel Messi for example, had a natural talent for football/soccer at an early age, which is why by 11 he was already being groomed for his future (not to mention getting expensive treatments for his growth deficiency by his future team).

No amount of practice would allow me to be anywhere near as good.

JoeTyler said:

PurpleJedi said:

No...there are people born with a propensity to be good at something...a natural "talent".

well, that's true, but I still think that, with the due OPM everyone could do anything...

Yes, but not as good as someone with a natural talent for it.

Serious said:

JoeTyler said:

hmmmm, I think that, other than the intelligence/genes thing (it's true that we can't do nothing about it) the rest falls into the HUMANS/SOCIETY category, so I still think I'm right, lol

oh, and I don't believe in "talent", more like opportunity, practice and motivation

[Edited 6/6/12 14:36pm]

So you consider it fair if one child is born in a 3rd world country where war is going on, where it is abused and neglected while another one is born into a loving family in a rich country?

NO, I ONLY MEANT THAT IT WOULD BE THE FAULT OF HUMANS/SOCIETY. WHAT I'M TRYIN' TO SAY IS THAT THE TITLE OF THE THREAD COULD HAVE BEEN "HUMANS ARE NOT FAIR"

Talents have nothing to do with opportunity, practice and motivation. When you are not talented in something you can practice how ever much you want you will never achieve nearly as much as somebody who is talented and doesn't put much effort into it. Yes you will improve, but there are limitations you cannot overcome.

SORRY, I'M NOT SAYIN' I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG, BUT I GUESS WE HAVE TO DISAGREE HERE. I DON'T BELIEVE IN "NATURAL, EFFORTLESS TALENT" AT ALL. I'LL STICK WITH THE OPM THING

PurpleJedi said:

Serious said:

Or sports for example

YES!!!

Lionel Messi for example, had a natural talent for football/soccer at an early age, which is why by 11 he was already being groomed for his future (not to mention getting expensive treatments for his growth deficiency by his future team).

No amount of practice would allow me to be anywhere near as good.

Or John McEnroe in tennis for example who never practiced much and ate ice cream as his diet .

I could do sports every day for hours I would still suck and never be nearly as good as somebody who is talented who would not practice more than 5 minutes a month.

Or dancing for example, I could never be a good dancer ever . Or a good singer .

JoeTyler said:

Serious said:

So you consider it fair if one child is born in a 3rd world country where war is going on, where it is abused and neglected while another one is born into a loving family in a rich country?

NO, I ONLY MEANT THAT IT WOULD BE THE FAULT OF HUMANS/SOCIETY. WHAT I'M TRYIN' TO SAY IS THAT THE TITLE OF THE THREAD COULD HAVE BEEN "HUMANS ARE NOT FAIR"

Talents have nothing to do with opportunity, practice and motivation. When you are not talented in something you can practice how ever much you want you will never achieve nearly as much as somebody who is talented and doesn't put much effort into it. Yes you will improve, but there are limitations you cannot overcome.

SORRY, I'M NOT SAYIN' I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG, BUT I GUESS WE HAVE TO DISAGREE HERE. I DON'T BELIEVE IN "NATURAL, EFFORTLESS TALENT" AT ALL. I'LL STICK WITH THE OPM THING

Well but life is that way that we humans have the power so life is not fair. Not to mention that not all bad things are man made.

When you are talented in something you achieve much with very little effort. When you are not you hardly achieve anything with loads of effort.

^^^And that is not fair .

Serious said:

PurpleJedi said:

YES!!!

Lionel Messi for example, had a natural talent for football/soccer at an early age, which is why by 11 he was already being groomed for his future (not to mention getting expensive treatments for his growth deficiency by his future team).

No amount of practice would allow me to be anywhere near as good.

Or John McEnroe in tennis for example who never practiced much and ate ice cream as his diet .

I could do sports every day for hours I would still suck and never be nearly as good as somebody who is talented who would not practice more than 5 minutes a month.

Or dancing for example, I could never be a good dancer ever . Or a good singer .

and that's why Rafa Nadal or Federer would humiliate him in a fictional match, because they train 10 hours a day (their words) lol

I mean, I'm not mad, but what exactly is your point?

I think some of you are underestimating the fact that major artists-sportsmen/women are MAJOR precisely because their focused they entire lives on training/practicing, sometimes even neglecting their own education (which is risky)

[Edited 6/6/12 15:15pm]

PurpleJedi said:

Have you accepted that fact?

Yes.

How do you feel about it?

Sucks, but...

What do you do about it?

Enjoy what good fortune comes my way and try to effect as much good fortune for others -- particularly for the misfortunate -- as possible.

Serious said:

JoeTyler said:

Well but life is that way that we humans have the power so life is not fair. Not to mention that not all bad things are man made.

When you are talented in something you achieve much with very little effort. When you are not you hardly achieve anything with loads of effort.

in the end, you'll believe exactly what you want to believe

JoeTyler said:

Serious said:

Or John McEnroe in tennis for example who never practiced much and ate ice cream as his diet .

I could do sports every day for hours I would still suck and never be nearly as good as somebody who is talented who would not practice more than 5 minutes a month.

Or dancing for example, I could never be a good dancer ever . Or a good singer .

and that's why Rafa Nadal or Federer would humiliate him in a fictional match, because they train 10 hours a day (their words) lol

I mean, I'm not mad, but what exactly is your point?

I think some of you are underestimating the fact that major artists-sportsmen/women are MAJOR precisely because their focused they entire lives on training/practicing, sometimes even neglecting their own education (which is risky)

[Edited 6/6/12 15:15pm]

Not if it was a match in the early 80s with a wooden racket. Back then he was way better then all the other players who trained hours and hours every day.

And why do women have no chance against men in most sports? Why are there different categories for men and women in sports if it is only about training? Or different weight categories in boxing if effort alone would be enough?

Major artists-sportsmen/women are first and foremost major because they have god given talent. Without that they would not achieve anything at all.

JoeTyler said:

Serious said:

Well but life is that way that we humans have the power so life is not fair. Not to mention that not all bad things are man made.

When you are talented in something you achieve much with very little effort. When you are not you hardly achieve anything with loads of effort.

in the end, you'll believe exactly what you want to believe

I believe what experience has taught me . I know how very easy it is for me to achieve certain things without much effort at all and how extremely hard other things are for me. And I watch it with other people all the time too.

But anyway the thread is not about talents, so let's just agree to disagree

you know i've always wondered why our declaration of independence would begin:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

when it's dead clear that we are not all created equal, nor in many cases do we have the same 'inalienable rights'. we just... don't.

there are only a few things we all really have in common on this weird journey: we all get a day older each day, and life is a struggle for limited resources which inevitably prefaces death and we all suffer before we die. get over it!!!!