This says a lot about how we treat our elderly, our military, our handicapped and of course them other folk.

Things have got to change.

http://www.nytimes.com/20....html?_r=1

Officers, Why Do You Have Your Guns Out?’

I Know what I am about to say may sound evil but read it carefully.

This is a good thing.

When a clearly innocent person who in no way deserves to be dead is killed then there is no deffense.

They can not say he seserved it. There is simply no case. No saying that he, behind closed doors, was acting all "Gangsta" or whatever. People will have to deal with the truth.

Trust me, this man did not die for nothing. He has a very articulate son who is trained to not let his emotions get the best of him. In martial arts you learn that. His son is a natural leader who seems to carry himself with confidence and self respect. This man will be heard and bring honor to his father. I believe that.

Deadflow3r said:

I Know what I am about to say may sound evil but read it carefully.

This is a good thing.

When a clearly innocent person who in no way deserves to be dead is killed then there is no deffense.

They can not say he seserved it. There is simply no case. No saying that he, behind closed doors, was acting all "Gangsta" or whatever. People will have to deal with the truth.

Trust me, this man did not die for nothing. He has a very articulate son who is trained to not let his emotions get the best of him. In martial arts you learn that. His son is a natural leader who seems to carry himself with confidence and self respect. This man will be heard and bring honor to his father. I believe that.

Okay, I love you, Deadflow3r, but:

What in the fuck are you talking about?

This is a good thing, why? Your post didn't explain that. Gangsta? He was an old man. Why would you even bring up the word "gangsta," other than this was a black man?

Martial arts? Huh? Articulate son? Having a son who can express himself verbally somehow mitigates being murdered in your own home?

I'm really trying to understand if you're drunk, or what.

HotGritz said:

This says a lot about how we treat our elderly, our military, our handicapped and of course them other folk.

Things have got to change.

http://www.nytimes.com/20....html?_r=1

Officers, Why Do You Have Your Guns Out?’

The niece stood in the darkened stairwell of the Winbrook Houses, listening, as 20 feet away five police officers yelled at her uncle, who had locked himself in his apartment.

It was 5:25 on a chill November morning. The officers banged loud and hard, demanding that her 68-year-old uncle open his door.

“He was begging them to leave him alone,” she recalls. “He sounded scared.” She pulls her shawl about her shoulders and her voice cracks; she is speaking for the first time about what she saw. “I heard my uncle yelling, ‘Officers, officers, why do you have your guns out?’ ”

The string of events that night sounds prosaic, a who-cares accumulation of little mistakes and misapprehensions. Cumulatively, though, it is like tumbling down the stairs. Somehow the uncle, Kenneth Chamberlain Sr., a former Marine who had heart problems and wheezed if he walked more than 40 feet, triggered his medical alert system pendant. The system operator came on the loudspeaker in his one-bedroom apartment, asking: “Mr. Chamberlain, are you O.K.?” All of this is recorded.

Mr. Chamberlain didn’t respond. So the operator signaled for an ambulance. Police patrol cars fell in behind — standard operating procedure in towns across America. Except an hour later, even as Mr. Chamberlain insisted he was in good health, the police had snapped the locks on the apartment door.

They fired electric charges from Tasers, and beanbags from shotguns. Then they said they saw Mr. Chamberlain grab a knife, and an officer fired his handgun.

Boom! Boom! Mr. Chamberlain’s niece Tonyia Greenhill, who lives upstairs, recalls the echoes ricocheting about the hall. She pushed out a back door and ran into the darkness beneath overarching oaks. He lay on the floor near his kitchen, two bullet holes in his chest, blood pooling thick, dying.

It makes sense to be humble in the presence of conflicting accounts. The White Plains public safety commissioner declared this a “warranted use of deadly force”; the shooter was later put on modified assignment. Mr. Chamberlain, in the commissioner’s telling, had withstood electric charges, grabbed a butcher knife and charged the officers.

The alert system phone in Mr. Chamberlain’s apartment recorded most of the standoff, as did a security camera in the hall. And the officers’ Tasers carried video recorders.

Last month, the Westchester County district attorney played these for the dead man’s son, Kenneth Chamberlain Jr., who teaches martial arts for a local nonprofit organization and intends to file a lawsuit. He is lithe, with a shaved head, and takes pride in a reasoned manner. “My family, we’re not into histrionics,” he says. “We don’t run down the street inciting riot.”

His voice cracks, though, as he describes the tapes. “I heard fear,” he says. “In my 45 years on this earth, I never heard my father sound like that.”

The district attorney will present the case to a grand jury and has not released transcripts. But the family’s recollection matches that of neighbors who listened through closed doors.

They say officers taunted Mr. Chamberlain. He shouted: “Semper fi,” the Marine Corps motto. The police answered with loud shouts of “Hoo-rah!” Another officer, the niece says, said he wanted to pee in Mr. Chamberlain’s bathroom.

Someone, the niece and neighbors say, yelled a racial epithet at the door. Black and white officers were present.

Kenny Randolph listened from his apartment across the hall. “They put fear in his heart,” he says. “It wasn’t a crime scene until they made it one.”

The police say Mr. Chamberlain was “known” to them, although it appears he had not been convicted of a crime. There are intimations that he wrestled with emotional issues. Sometimes, neighbors say, he talked to himself. Who’s to say? As often, life’s default position is set to “complicated.”

Many police departments have trained corps of officers expert in talking with the emotionally upset. Their rule of thumb: talk quietly and de-escalate. That night in White Plains, no one appeared to have de-escalated anything.

Mr. Chamberlain sounded spooked. His son recalls hearing his father say on tape: “This is my sworn testimony. White Plains officers are coming in here to kill me.” A few minutes later, a bullet tore through his rib and heart. The ambulance took him to White Plains Hospital, where he soon died.

His son lives five minutes away. He says he could have talked his father down. Standing in the office of his lawyer Randolph M. McLaughlin, he mimes knocking on his dad’s door. “Dad, it’s me, Ken, I’m here.” His eyes are bloodshot and brimming. “I always said, ‘I’m the protector now.’ But I wasn’t there when he needed me.”

Some fool had an itchy trigger finger. Sad that a device that was installed to help save this man life actually aided in getting him killed. Well at least they have a recording of what happened, i wonder how this will progress.

morningsong said:

HotGritz said:

This says a lot about how we treat our elderly, our military, our handicapped and of course them other folk.

Things have got to change.

http://www.nytimes.com/20....html?_r=1

Officers, Why Do You Have Your Guns Out?’

Some fool had an itchy trigger finger. Sad that a device that was installed to help save this man life actually aided in getting him killed. Well at least they have a recording of what happened, i wonder how this will progress.

So sad.

this could happen to anybody really.

People hire anybody who knows how to handle a gun and don't care if they do it recklessly as long as the aim is right.

PunkMistress said:

Deadflow3r said:

I Know what I am about to say may sound evil but read it carefully.

This is a good thing.

When a clearly innocent person who in no way deserves to be dead is killed then there is no deffense.

They can not say he seserved it. There is simply no case. No saying that he, behind closed doors, was acting all "Gangsta" or whatever. People will have to deal with the truth.

Trust me, this man did not die for nothing. He has a very articulate son who is trained to not let his emotions get the best of him. In martial arts you learn that. His son is a natural leader who seems to carry himself with confidence and self respect. This man will be heard and bring honor to his father. I believe that.

Okay, I love you, Deadflow3r, but:

What in the fuck are you talking about?

This is a good thing, why? Your post didn't explain that. Gangsta? He was an old man. Why would you even bring up the word "gangsta," other than this was a black man?

Martial arts? Huh? Articulate son? Having a son who can express himself verbally somehow mitigates being murdered in your own home?

I'm really trying to understand if you're drunk, or what.

O.k, every single fucken time an innocent black man gets killed they find something in his history or his run ins with the police to make it seem as if he may have not been innocent.

There is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, on this man that can be used as some lame reason for his death.

Secondly the whole reason that Rosa Parks getting arrested started the strike was that ROSA WAS ALMOST A SAINT. They couldn't find one bad fucken thing on her, no way no how. So CLEARLY she didn't deserve it. Had she had even one blemish on her record or past in any way she would not have been used.

As for family.

The case will rest on the families ability to keep pursuing this.

Crying, screaming, swearing people may be in the right but they look all WRONG to the press.

It he can keep saying the obvious and state it calmly and firmly and do so until justice is served he will have done much not only for his father but for many.

Even when you are CLEARLY in the right, if you get all emotional ( lets face it I absolutely do) and people see that they can ruffle your feathers and maybe get u to say something stupid in a moment of frustration and anger, you will Lose

Even if you are totally in the right.

Martial arts teaches people to remain calm under pressure, to keep their focus. This guy isn't going to start swearing at stupid ignorant questions being asked him.

Deadflow3r said:

PunkMistress said:

Okay, I love you, Deadflow3r, but:

What in the fuck are you talking about?

This is a good thing, why? Your post didn't explain that. Gangsta? He was an old man. Why would you even bring up the word "gangsta," other than this was a black man?

Martial arts? Huh? Articulate son? Having a son who can express himself verbally somehow mitigates being murdered in your own home?

I'm really trying to understand if you're drunk, or what.

O.k, every single fucken time an innocent black man gets killed they find something in his history or his run ins with the police to make it seem as if he may have not been innocent.

There is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, on this man that can be used as some lame reason for his death.

Secondly the whole reason that Rosa Parks getting arrested started the strike was that ROSA WAS ALMOST A SAINT. They couldn't find one bad fucken thing on her, no way no how. So CLEARLY she didn't deserve it. Had she had even one blemish on her record or past in any way she would not have been used.

As for family.

The case will rest on the families ability to keep pursuing this.

Crying, screaming, swearing people may be in the right but they look all WRONG to the press.

It he can keep saying the obvious and state it calmly and firmly and do so until justice is served he will have done much not only for his father but for many.

Even when you are CLEARLY in the right, if you get all emotional ( lets face it I absolutely do) and people see that they can ruffle your feathers and maybe get u to say something stupid in a moment of frustration and anger, you will Lose

Even if you are totally in the right.

Martial arts teaches people to remain calm under pressure, to keep their focus. This guy isn't going to start swearing at stupid ignorant questions being asked him.

Dead that's a real good point you brought up about Rosa Parks. I read that others had done the same thing she did (refuse to vacate their seat for a white person) but Rosa had an untarnished record. She had not been previously arrested, was educated and had a good job so that's really why she was a model for the movement.

Also agree with you about the manipulation of emotions. I think a lot of people got arrested or even killed all because the cops know how to ruffle their feathers and get them to react. I remember a time during my childhood when my uncle had picked me up from school and we got pulled over and the cop tried to make some slide remark about black men and cadillacs. My uncle remained calm but I could tell by the way the cop looked at him and the long moment of silence, that calm is not what he was aiming for. I think had their not been kids in the car, something bad would have happened.

HotGritz said:

Deadflow3r said:

O.k, every single fucken time an innocent black man gets killed they find something in his history or his run ins with the police to make it seem as if he may have not been innocent.

There is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, on this man that can be used as some lame reason for his death.

Secondly the whole reason that Rosa Parks getting arrested started the strike was that ROSA WAS ALMOST A SAINT. They couldn't find one bad fucken thing on her, no way no how. So CLEARLY she didn't deserve it. Had she had even one blemish on her record or past in any way she would not have been used.

As for family.

The case will rest on the families ability to keep pursuing this.

Crying, screaming, swearing people may be in the right but they look all WRONG to the press.

It he can keep saying the obvious and state it calmly and firmly and do so until justice is served he will have done much not only for his father but for many.

Even when you are CLEARLY in the right, if you get all emotional ( lets face it I absolutely do) and people see that they can ruffle your feathers and maybe get u to say something stupid in a moment of frustration and anger, you will Lose

Even if you are totally in the right.

Martial arts teaches people to remain calm under pressure, to keep their focus. This guy isn't going to start swearing at stupid ignorant questions being asked him.

Dead that's a real good point you brought up about Rosa Parks. I read that others had done the same thing she did (refuse to vacate their seat for a white person) but Rosa had an untarnished record. She had not been previously arrested, was educated and had a good job so that's really why she was a model for the movement.

Also agree with you about the manipulation of emotions. I think a lot of people got arrested or even killed all because the cops know how to ruffle their feathers and get them to react. I remember a time during my childhood when my uncle had picked me up from school and we got pulled over and the cop tried to make some slide remark about black men and cadillacs. My uncle remained calm but I could tell by the way the cop looked at him and the long moment of silence, that calm is not what he was aiming for. I think had their not been kids in the car, something bad would have happened.

You absolutely get it!!!!

When the cops are in the wrong they try to break the innocent by saying demeaning things that will not go on the record.

It is like that when the media wants to get a nasty pic of a celebrity; they say something vulgar so that the celebrity makes an ugly mean face and then post that expression with a totally different story line about that celebrity.

Your uncle was probably clearly in the wrong, maybe there was absolutely no reason to pull him over; so they need to incite one.

One of the reasons that Barrack Obama became president was because he was unruffled and refused to lose focus and play into the game of being an "overly emotional black man".

Deadflow3r said:

HotGritz said:

Dead that's a real good point you brought up about Rosa Parks. I read that others had done the same thing she did (refuse to vacate their seat for a white person) but Rosa had an untarnished record. She had not been previously arrested, was educated and had a good job so that's really why she was a model for the movement.

Also agree with you about the manipulation of emotions. I think a lot of people got arrested or even killed all because the cops know how to ruffle their feathers and get them to react. I remember a time during my childhood when my uncle had picked me up from school and we got pulled over and the cop tried to make some slide remark about black men and cadillacs. My uncle remained calm but I could tell by the way the cop looked at him and the long moment of silence, that calm is not what he was aiming for. I think had their not been kids in the car, something bad would have happened.

You absolutely get it!!!!

When the cops are in the wrong they try to break the innocent by saying demeaning things that will not go on the record.

It is like that when the media wants to get a nasty pic of a celebrity; they say something vulgar so that the celebrity makes an ugly mean face and then post that expression with a totally different story line about that celebrity.

Your uncle was probably clearly in the wrong, maybe there was absolutely no reason to pull him over; so they need to incite one.

One of the reasons that Barrack Obama became president was because he was unruffled and refused to lose focus and play into the game of being an "overly emotional black man".

Unruffled in the face of comments like "he's a muslim", "he's a terrorist", "he's not an american", "his mother was a whore", "his pastor's a racist". I don't know how he maintained focus through the election and even up until now.