^^^ What Tina said.

missfee said:

So are some of you saying that most relationships, especially romantic ones ARE based on conditions? For instance physical looks, job status, how much money the person makes, material things, etc.?

I think that you love your children unconditionally. Whatever their faults or defects, you love them like nothing and no one else.

As for unconditional romantic love? I can't wrap my head around that right now.

There has to be ATTRACTION before you fall in love with someone. Whether it be physical looks, a sense of humor, whatever...SOMETHING has to drive you towards that person. That in and of itself sets the standard for certain "conditions" that you expect/need - and 15 years later if those conditions change (or you change and those conditions are no longer relevant) then the love turns into either friendship or disdain.

I look at it like this... I love my husband like no other, but if he treated me like crap, didnt participate in the relationship, etc, I wouldnt want to be with him and would fall out of love with him.. The "condition" is he has to be a participant and an equal half in maintianing the relationship.

Now, if my children behaved that way to me, I would be terribly hurt, but would love them until the day I died no matter what they did... Unconditionally...

missfee said:

Dren5 said:

Not even just romantic, but friendships and sibling relationships too. None of that stuff is really unconditional either contrary to what people say.

So are some of you saying that most relationships, especially romantic ones ARE based on conditions? For instance physical looks, job status, how much money the person makes, material things, etc.?

Yes... though not necessarily on conditions as arguably shallow as those you cite. For example, even the mother-child bond, which I'd agree can be especially profound, is founded in circumstance and some level of mutual gratification.

I'm not saying that's "bad." It just is.

PurpleJedi said:

^^^ What Tina said.

missfee said:

So are some of you saying that most relationships, especially romantic ones ARE based on conditions? For instance physical looks, job status, how much money the person makes, material things, etc.?

I think that you love your children unconditionally. Whatever their faults or defects, you love them like nothing and no one else.

As for unconditional romantic love? I can't wrap my head around that right now.

There has to be ATTRACTION before you fall in love with someone. Whether it be physical looks, a sense of humor, whatever...SOMETHING has to drive you towards that person. That in and of itself sets the standard for certain "conditions" that you expect/need - and 15 years later if those conditions change (or you change and those conditions are no longer relevant) then the love turns into either friendship or disdain.

I dont know if there really is an "unconditional romantic" love...

tinaz said:

PurpleJedi said:

^^^ What Tina said.

I think that you love your children unconditionally. Whatever their faults or defects, you love them like nothing and no one else.

As for unconditional romantic love? I can't wrap my head around that right now.

There has to be ATTRACTION before you fall in love with someone. Whether it be physical looks, a sense of humor, whatever...SOMETHING has to drive you towards that person. That in and of itself sets the standard for certain "conditions" that you expect/need - and 15 years later if those conditions change (or you change and those conditions are no longer relevant) then the love turns into either friendship or disdain.

I dont know if there really is an "unconditional romantic" love...

I tend to agree, although, like I said, I've known two. But the love became unconditional AFTER we split up.

tinaz said:

I look at it like this... I love my husband like no other, but if he treated me like crap, didnt participate in the relationship, etc, I wouldnt want to be with him and would fall out of love with him.. The "condition" is he has to be a participant and an equal half in maintianing the relationship.

Now, if my children behaved that way to me, I would be terribly hurt, but would love them until the day I died no matter what they did... Unconditionally...

That's pretty much what I was getting at. I feel that way about my niece - I will love her always no matter what. I will always try with her.

Bonds with children are just different.

tinaz said:

I look at it like this... I love my husband like no other, but if he treated me like crap, didnt participate in the relationship, etc, I wouldnt want to be with him and would fall out of love with him.. The "condition" is he has to be a participant and an equal half in maintianing the relationship.

Now, if my children behaved that way to me, I would be terribly hurt, but would love them until the day I died no matter what they did... Unconditionally...

Okay I gotcha.

PurpleJedi said:

^^^ What Tina said.

missfee said:

So are some of you saying that most relationships, especially romantic ones ARE based on conditions? For instance physical looks, job status, how much money the person makes, material things, etc.?

I think that you love your children unconditionally. Whatever their faults or defects, you love them like nothing and no one else.

As for unconditional romantic love? I can't wrap my head around that right now.

There has to be ATTRACTION before you fall in love with someone. Whether it be physical looks, a sense of humor, whatever...SOMETHING has to drive you towards that person. That in and of itself sets the standard for certain "conditions" that you expect/need - and 15 years later if those conditions change (or you change and those conditions are no longer relevant) then the love turns into either friendship or disdain.

Damn, you're completely right.

missfee said:

PurpleJedi said:

^^^ What Tina said.

I think that you love your children unconditionally. Whatever their faults or defects, you love them like nothing and no one else.

As for unconditional romantic love? I can't wrap my head around that right now.

There has to be ATTRACTION before you fall in love with someone. Whether it be physical looks, a sense of humor, whatever...SOMETHING has to drive you towards that person. That in and of itself sets the standard for certain "conditions" that you expect/need - and 15 years later if those conditions change (or you change and those conditions are no longer relevant) then the love turns into either friendship or disdain.

Damn, you're completely right.

Unfortunately.

Nah, see - for me, I won't change. I refuse. So a romantic relationship that works for any amount of time must be unconditional. For me to say, "I'm in love", there can be no conditions attached. When those relationships stop working it's because "conditions" have worked there way into the cracks over time, changing the parameters.

Cerebus said:

Nah, see - for me, I won't change. I refuse. So a romantic relationship that works for any amount of time must be unconditional. For me to say, "I'm in love", there can be no conditions attached. When those relationships stop working it's because "conditions" have worked there way into the cracks over time, changing the parameters.

Dude...we ALL have "conditions".

You may not like a woman who parties 'til 2am everyday, or maybe you dislike a woman who shaves her head, or wants to be barefoot & pregnant, etc., etc.

People change. Their needs/wants change. If your life partner begins to exhibit tendencies that you find abhorent, you will fall out of love. Those are the "conditions" that I'm talking about.

And yes, you can still love someone who is hurting you or doing things that you despise...but you change your attitude towards them and no longer "romantically" love them.

My 2¢

ACTUALLY...I failed to mention the most BASIC "condition" that we should ALL uphold when talking of romantic love.

That the other person LOVE you BACK.

One-way love is a recipe for disaster.

PurpleJedi said:

ACTUALLY...I failed to mention the most BASIC "condition" that we should ALL uphold when talking of romantic love.

That the other person LOVE you BACK.

One-way love is a recipe for disaster.

UNCONDITIONAL LOVE has it's limits

UNLIMITTED LOVE has it's conditions

i have been the reciever of both ,romantically,

(that's by someone whom is NOT a family member OR

a pet/ animal/plant) and there's no sex involved in most

of these, because of space and time. HOWEVER

these are people who love me no matter whut, and

i believe they always will.

Pomade said:

nursev said:

Unconditional? No. Now as far as unconditional love between a mom and child-yes.

I agree with this. Unconditional can be an unhealthy standard. At some point, love and self-preservation shouldn't have to cancel each other out.

Unconditional can definitely be an unhealthy standard.

My love and I were just having the conversation about love and self-preservation yesterday. I believe that what we have for each other is real, unconditional romantic love, but we both also believe that self-preservation and self-care need to always be primary for every person.

I maintain, however, that instead of being in opposition to unconditional love, this is a necessary precursor to practicing unconditional love of another. How can I fully love you in a healthy way if my emotional and mental maintenance are lacking?

PunkMistress said:

Pomade said:

nursev said: I agree with this. Unconditional can be an unhealthy standard. At some point, love and self-preservation shouldn't have to cancel each other out.

Unconditional can definitely be an unhealthy standard.

My love and I were just having the conversation about love and self-preservation yesterday. I believe that what we have for each other is real, unconditional romantic love, but we both also believe that self-preservation and self-care need to always be primary for every person.

I maintain, however, that instead of being in opposition to unconditional love, this is a necessary precursor to practicing unconditional love of another. How can I fully love you in a healthy way if my emotional and mental maintenance are lacking?

has it's limits...

PunkMistress said:

Pomade said:

nursev said: I agree with this. Unconditional can be an unhealthy standard. At some point, love and self-preservation shouldn't have to cancel each other out.

Unconditional can definitely be an unhealthy standard.

My love and I were just having the conversation about love and self-preservation yesterday. I believe that what we have for each other is real, unconditional romantic love, but we both also believe that self-preservation and self-care need to always be primary for every person.

I maintain, however, that instead of being in opposition to unconditional love, this is a necessary precursor to practicing unconditional love of another. How can I fully love you in a healthy way if my emotional and mental maintenance are lacking?

Very true. I agree.

tinaz said:

I look at it like this... I love my husband like no other, but if he treated me like crap, didnt participate in the relationship, etc, I wouldnt want to be with him and would fall out of love with him.. The "condition" is he has to be a participant and an equal half in maintianing the relationship.

Now, if my children behaved that way to me, I would be terribly hurt, but would love them until the day I died no matter what they did... Unconditionally...

In a strange way I love my daughters father unconditionally.

I left him when she was a month old because he had substance problems that he repeatedly did nothing about that would ruin her childhood if she grew up around him.

I still care deeply for this man and wish him well. When we talk on the phone I can hear the warmth in my voice but I will never get back together with him nor do I fantasize about it.

he is now another womans husband and I do not envy her.

But I just can not hate him no matter how many fucked up and stupid his choices have been.

PurpleJedi said:

Cerebus said:

Nah, see - for me, I won't change. I refuse. So a romantic relationship that works for any amount of time must be unconditional. For me to say, "I'm in love", there can be no conditions attached. When those relationships stop working it's because "conditions" have worked there way into the cracks over time, changing the parameters.

Dude...we ALL have "conditions".

You may not like a woman who parties 'til 2am everyday, or maybe you dislike a woman who shaves her head, or wants to be barefoot & pregnant, etc., etc.

People change. Their needs/wants change. If your life partner begins to exhibit tendencies that you find abhorent, you will fall out of love. Those are the "conditions" that I'm talking about.

And yes, you can still love someone who is hurting you or doing things that you despise...but you change your attitude towards them and no longer "romantically" love them.

My 2¢

What part of what I wrote didn't make sense to you?

First of all, you just said pretty exactly the same thing I said. Second, my point is .... oh fuck it. I already made my point.

Maybe I should have made it clear when I said "I won't change", I meant at the beginning. So falling in love requires it to be unconditional. But in my experience that doesn't last, and maybe it's not meant to. Not for everyone, anyway. But if somebody is exhibiting abhorent tendecies, I'll walk. It's not that difficult, really, as my is happiness and general well-being are important to me. Probably why we end up staying friends, though.

U would almost have 2 be brain dead 2 do such a thing.............beyond the age of common sense.

Graycap23 said:

U would almost have 2 be brain dead 2 do such a thing.............beyond the age of common sense.

You should maybe have quoted someone of included some context with this one.

Cerebus said:

PurpleJedi said:

Dude...we ALL have "conditions".

You may not like a woman who parties 'til 2am everyday, or maybe you dislike a woman who shaves her head, or wants to be barefoot & pregnant, etc., etc.

People change. Their needs/wants change. If your life partner begins to exhibit tendencies that you find abhorent, you will fall out of love. Those are the "conditions" that I'm talking about.

And yes, you can still love someone who is hurting you or doing things that you despise...but you change your attitude towards them and no longer "romantically" love them.

My 2¢

What part of what I wrote didn't make sense to you?

First of all, you just said pretty exactly the same thing I said. Second, my point is .... oh fuck it. I already made my point.

Yeah I think we're running around in circles.

Cuz it seems to me that you're saying you enter a relationship with no conditions, but then admit that there ARE conditions.

Whateva. I think we're on the same page at the end of the day.

Cerebus said:

Graycap23 said:

U would almost have 2 be brain dead 2 do such a thing.............beyond the age of common sense.

You should maybe have quoted someone of included some context with this one.

"U would have 2 be ...." lol.

Graycap23 said:

Cerebus said:

You should maybe have quoted someone of included some context with this one.

"U would have 2 be ...." lol.

Ahhh, yes.

I find that repeating part of the statement in question always clarifies everything.

Yes.

PurpleJedi said:

Cerebus said:

What part of what I wrote didn't make sense to you?

First of all, you just said pretty exactly the same thing I said. Second, my point is .... oh fuck it. I already made my point.

Yeah I think we're running around in circles.

Cuz it seems to me that you're saying you enter a relationship with no conditions, but then admit that there ARE conditions.

Whateva. I think we're on the same page at the end of the day.

No. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying twice in my life I've been loved unconditionally in a romantic context. Over time, the unconditional aspect changed as we changed as people. Like, over YEARS of time.

I think I've explained it very clearly, so please stop telling me what I'm saying.

PunkMistress said:

Graycap23 said:

"U would have 2 be ...." lol.

Ahhh, yes.

I find that repeating part of the statement in question always clarifies everything.

I hate this thread now.

Cerebus said:

PurpleJedi said:

Yeah I think we're running around in circles.

Cuz it seems to me that you're saying you enter a relationship with no conditions, but then admit that there ARE conditions.

Whateva. I think we're on the same page at the end of the day.

No. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying twice in my life I've been loved unconditionally in a romantic context. Over time, the unconditional aspect changed as we changed as people. Like, over YEARS of time.

I think I've explained it very clearly, so please stop telling me what I'm saying.

If you had explained it clearly, it wouldn't have taken 3 tries for me to understand it!!!

...you just made the list buddy...

PurpleJedi said:

Cerebus said:

No. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying twice in my life I've been loved unconditionally in a romantic context. Over time, the unconditional aspect changed as we changed as people. Like, over YEARS of time.

I think I've explained it very clearly, so please stop telling me what I'm saying.

If you had explained it clearly, it wouldn't have taken 3 tries for me to understand it!!!

...you just made the list buddy...

Yaaaay!

Well I thought that everything I had posted since the beginning of the thread in the context of where it was placed next to what other people had said made perfect sense... That's what I get for thinking, though.