dJJ said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Agreed about the single men who are in their mid-30s, it seems like (no offense here but) a lot of guys past a certain age who are single and without kids, well there's a reason for it. I really don't understand in today's world with such a large pool of single, eligible women how a guy could possibly complain about not being able to find any that are "wife material". I met a guy the other day who is about to turn 36 and he's very handsome and seemed polite but I thought to myself, how in the world has he not been taken by now?

I also don't want a guy who has kids or has been married before because it's just not a good fit with my personality either.

Isn't that the same way for women?

Hey DJ, as I mentioned, it boils down to numbers. It's no secret that there are always more women than men in the world. When you factor in the fact that there are always more women, it means that men have a lot more choices than women do. I have seen guys who are absolute down and out bums who have somehow snagged nice women because the women are desperate to hang out to any piece of man they can get.

I know one chick who frequently confides in me about how at age 40 her clock is ticking and her live-in boyfriend isn't in a rush to marry her and have kids. She even moved far away from her job and has a longer commute so he can have an easier time. He's clearly using her but she puts up with it because of desperation. I knew the last time that they moved apartments I was thinking, "Wow, she shouldn't let him move with her again without demanding that he shape up or ship out" There is no way in hell if I felt the same way she did that the dude would continue to be my live in boyfriend who isn't serious about me as much as he is serious about going half on bills.

SeventeenDayze said:

DysregulatedToxicity said:

And this is the reason why I don't want to have a family or get married. I understand that traditional marriages are not for everyone and that at this time and age "blended" families are becoming the norm. But that is not for me. Ideally I would like to get married to a man who has never been married before or has any children. However, I understand how difficult this would be since I am in my mid thirties and a LOT of single men in their mid thirties have been married before or have children from previous relationships.

I know that when you love someone you have to accept them as they are, but I do not believe nor desire to be in a blended family. Just because statistically most second marriages/blended families are even less likely to stay together.

Agreed about the single men who are in their mid-30s, it seems like (no offense here but) a lot of guys past a certain age who are single and without kids, well there's a reason for it. I really don't understand in today's world with such a large pool of single, eligible women how a guy could possibly complain about not being able to find any that are "wife material". I met a guy the other day who is about to turn 36 and he's very handsome and seemed polite but I thought to myself, how in the world has he not been taken by now?

I also don't want a guy who has kids or has been married before because it's just not a good fit with my personality either.

Well then you are making your options very limited yourself. No guys who have been married or kids already, nor any guys who are still single and still don't have any kids. Basically another way of saying that you are scared shitless to get into a serious relationship with any guy.

But on't take that out on guys in their mid thirties who are still single lol. Sure there is a reason for that. There is a reason for anything. But you don't know them and you don't have the right to judge so generally either. Look at yourself first.

SeventeenDayze said:

dJJ said:

Isn't that the same way for women?

Hey DJ, as I mentioned, it boils down to numbers. It's no secret that there are always more women than men in the world. When you factor in the fact that there are always more women, it means that men have a lot more choices than women do. I have seen guys who are absolute down and out bums who have somehow snagged nice women because the women are desperate to hang out to any piece of man they can get.

I know one chick who frequently confides in me about how at age 40 her clock is ticking and her live-in boyfriend isn't in a rush to marry her and have kids. She even moved far away from her job and has a longer commute so he can have an easier time. He's clearly using her but she puts up with it because of desperation. I knew the last time that they moved apartments I was thinking, "Wow, she shouldn't let him move with her again without demanding that he shape up or ship out" There is no way in hell if I felt the same way she did that the dude would continue to be my live in boyfriend who isn't serious about me as much as he is serious about going half on bills.

Why is it men's fault that some women are so stupid and desperate?

Tremolina said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Agreed about the single men who are in their mid-30s, it seems like (no offense here but) a lot of guys past a certain age who are single and without kids, well there's a reason for it. I really don't understand in today's world with such a large pool of single, eligible women how a guy could possibly complain about not being able to find any that are "wife material". I met a guy the other day who is about to turn 36 and he's very handsome and seemed polite but I thought to myself, how in the world has he not been taken by now?

I also don't want a guy who has kids or has been married before because it's just not a good fit with my personality either.

Well then you are making your options very limited yourself. No guys who have been married or kids already, nor any guys who are still single and still don't have any kids. Basically another way of saying that you are scared shitless to get into a serious relationship with any guy.

But on't take that out on guys in their mid thirties who are still single lol. Sure there is a reason for that. There is a reason for anything. But you don't know them and you don't have the right to judge so generally either. Look at yourself first.

Sounds like I struck a nerve.....anyone who writes me back something that exaggerated and making all these comments in that way obviously is offended...geez, I said from the start is it weird to not be interested in committment? Besides, is something wrong with me for not wanting to be a baby mama/step mama or anything like that? Believe it or not, some women remember that we have options

[Edited 10/1/11 9:30am]

SeventeenDayze said:

dJJ said:

Isn't that the same way for women?

Hey DJ, as I mentioned, it boils down to numbers. It's no secret that there are always more women than men in the world. When you factor in the fact that there are always more women, it means that men have a lot more choices than women do. I have seen guys who are absolute down and out bums who have somehow snagged nice women because the women are desperate to hang out to any piece of man they can get.

I know one chick who frequently confides in me about how at age 40 her clock is ticking and her live-in boyfriend isn't in a rush to marry her and have kids. She even moved far away from her job and has a longer commute so he can have an easier time. He's clearly using her but she puts up with it because of desperation. I knew the last time that they moved apartments I was thinking, "Wow, she shouldn't let him move with her again without demanding that he shape up or ship out" There is no way in hell if I felt the same way she did that the dude would continue to be my live in boyfriend who isn't serious about me as much as he is serious about going half on bills.

I've seen a lot of that. And I really think that the reason for women to put up with sh** is because they want to have a family. Have children together with a man.

Therefore the cling to men, eventhough they'r not on the same page.

When women, just like men, could have children in their 50's, the would not act that dependant towards males. I really think it comes down to whether you want children or not.

Up untill 32 I thought I didn't want children. Then the hormones kicked in and actually started yearning for them. I still do. Withouth those hormones (yearning for children) there really is no reason to form longtermrelationships nowadays.

I think the financial independance of women will have more unforeseen consequences in the next decades. As soon as women could divorce legally, they did. And men still have to figure out how to stay in a relationship based on equeality. However, due to the earlier reproduction expire date of women compared to men, there still is an inequality that doesn't get the attention it deserves imo.

Tremolina said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Hey DJ, as I mentioned, it boils down to numbers. It's no secret that there are always more women than men in the world. When you factor in the fact that there are always more women, it means that men have a lot more choices than women do. I have seen guys who are absolute down and out bums who have somehow snagged nice women because the women are desperate to hang out to any piece of man they can get.

I know one chick who frequently confides in me about how at age 40 her clock is ticking and her live-in boyfriend isn't in a rush to marry her and have kids. She even moved far away from her job and has a longer commute so he can have an easier time. He's clearly using her but she puts up with it because of desperation. I knew the last time that they moved apartments I was thinking, "Wow, she shouldn't let him move with her again without demanding that he shape up or ship out" There is no way in hell if I felt the same way she did that the dude would continue to be my live in boyfriend who isn't serious about me as much as he is serious about going half on bills.

Why is it men's fault that some women are so stupid and desperate?

Never said it was the men's fault but as I mentioned, there's no way in hell I'd let a guy get away with that, but a lot of women know that guys prefer lazy and/or desperate chicks so...

SeventeenDayze said:

Tremolina said:

Why is it men's fault that some women are so stupid and desperate?

Never said it was the men's fault but as I mentioned, there's no way in hell I'd let a guy get away with that, but a lot of women know that guys prefer lazy and/or desperate chicks so...

Well, there is not much else I can read in your post as then so many poor women choose all these assholes, who willingly abuse them so much. I am not sticking up for those kind of gusy, but what about these women themselves. Ignoring that doesn't do justice, neither to men, nor to you or women in general.

SeventeenDayze said:

Tremolina said:

Well then you are making your options very limited yourself. No guys who have been married or kids already, nor any guys who are still single and still don't have any kids. Basically another way of saying that you are scared shitless to get into a serious relationship with any guy.

But on't take that out on guys in their mid thirties who are still single lol. Sure there is a reason for that. There is a reason for anything. But you don't know them and you don't have the right to judge so generally either. Look at yourself first.

Sounds like I struck a nerve.....anyone who writes me back something that exaggerated and making all these comments in that way obviously is offended...geez, I said from the start is it weird to not be interested in committment? Besides, is something wrong with me for not wanting to be a baby mama/step mama or anything like that? Believe it or not, some women remember that we have options

[Edited 10/1/11 9:30am]

You mean I struck a nerve with that post

I didn't say it was wrong for you to not want to be a baby mama.

What I say is that I think it's wrong to claim that for yourself, and then judge men who may not want to have childtren themselves either, and stay single like you, as that there must be something wrong there.

See my point?

of course not

personally, I wouldn't commit to anyone until I know that person even better than I know myself

rushed marriages are the norm of the day as always, anyway...

SeventeenDayze said:

Thanks to everyone for their comments so far, it's been really interesting to read everyone's outlook on this. I guess what makes it a bit strange for me is that sometimes I meet a guy who seems okay and I think, "Oh no, he seems too nice, what could be wrong?" Then I just automatically start thinking about if I fall in love with this guy and have kids, it will just end up in hell. Sorry but that's honestly how I think and it's not healthy to think that far ahead and expect the worst, but it's just my knee-jerk reaction. I just don't see it as anything but misery. It's like from the most literal DAY ONE of meeting a guy I'm already seeing a terrible ending, pretty sad huh?

You don't have to have kids with a guy you fall in love with. It's not a prerequisite nor a duty. You could find someone sharing the same points of view, not the desperate picker kind, nor the layer wannabe. Guys in their mid-30s that don't want committment do exist. They are rare but not extinct like the dodo.

ZombieKitten said:

alphastreet said:

Don't develop an imaginary partner either, it kills!

Deadflow3r said:

alphastreet said:

Don't develop an imaginary partner either, it kills!

What is wrong with imaginary partners? I like having one or maybe 2 . It sure beats getting off thinking about a real man that is not now or ever going to be in my life. When you have an imaginary partner you can just put together characteristics of different men that you like.

imaginary menage a trois huh?

I totally agree with everything you've said though, but I took it to extremes and now it doesn't work for me, and I'm realizing that self respect is more important than finding a partner first. Plus, I'm too afraid of everything, and all the awful, misogynistic people I've met, and the situations I got myself into

[Edited 10/1/11 23:49pm]

no its not bad 2 b scared

esp when u have been hurt b4

after a bad relationship it would b almost impossible to b able to enter into a long term relationship

and marriage would def be a 'never again' thing

it's a sign of sanity, not a bad thing.

SeventeenDayze said:

I'm a chick who I think really is scared to death of any type of long-term, committed relationship. Is that weird or is it just the way things are now in society? I just really can't see myself being with a guy for longer than maybe a few years....I've only had one relationship that was longer than a year...all the others were a few weeks or months. Is that weird?

you are right to be afraid. take your time

Yes, it's weird.

Try to get into one unless you want to turn into a hopeless freak like me.

alphastreet said:

Deadflow3r said:

What is wrong with imaginary partners? I like having one or maybe 2 . It sure beats getting off thinking about a real man that is not now or ever going to be in my life. When you have an imaginary partner you can just put together characteristics of different men that you like.

imaginary menage a trois huh?

I totally agree with everything you've said though, but I took it to extremes and now it doesn't work for me, and I'm realizing that self respect is more important than finding a partner first. Plus, I'm too afraid of everything, and all the awful, misogynistic people I've met, and the situations I got myself into

[Edited 10/1/11 23:49pm]

Self respect is everything. I don't think a relationship works if you don't have very much of it going in. I also have that old fashion idea that a man should be a wee more attracted to the woman then the woman is to that man and that he should do most of the pursuing. I am not saying play mind games but if "he is just not that into you" accept it and move on. Those among us who are frightened of relationships have seen women throw away their own dreams on them only to be themselves thrown away later.

I don't see people who are single as less than people in couples. I never really did. When I was in high school there were girls who read Bride Magazine. That was their goal in life. To them that was the key to happy ever after, I saw it as the beginning of the end for most of the female members of my family.

Deadflow3r said:

alphastreet said:

imaginary menage a trois huh?

I totally agree with everything you've said though, but I took it to extremes and now it doesn't work for me, and I'm realizing that self respect is more important than finding a partner first. Plus, I'm too afraid of everything, and all the awful, misogynistic people I've met, and the situations I got myself into

[Edited 10/1/11 23:49pm]

Self respect is everything. I don't think a relationship works if you don't have very much of it going in. I also have that old fashion idea that a man should be a wee more attracted to the woman then the woman is to that man and that he should do most of the pursuing. I am not saying play mind games but if "he is just not that into you" accept it and move on. Those among us who are frightened of relationships have seen women throw away their own dreams on them only to be themselves thrown away later.

I don't see people who are single as less than people in couples. I never really did. When I was in high school there were girls who read Bride Magazine. That was their goal in life. To them that was the key to happy ever after, I saw it as the beginning of the end for most of the female members of my family.

I 100% agree with you. For me, the women in my family always planted this seed in us younger generation that you HAD to find a worthy husband in order to be happy and if you are single then something must be wrong with you. Well guess what, I'm single, happy and I know what I deserve and won't settle for less than that. I'm not willing to be in a relationship with a man that has no kids, a job and a house but rude as hell, discourteous and disrespectful towards me. Umm no. A man doesn't, nor should, define my happiness. The way I see myself, carry and love myself should define my happiness. And yes I can admit, I've been through the whole "Bride Magazine" phase, imagining my wedding, the planning, etc. but not really thinking about what entails after a wedding, which is the marriage and many women miss that big point.

Deadflow3r said:

alphastreet said:

imaginary menage a trois huh?

I totally agree with everything you've said though, but I took it to extremes and now it doesn't work for me, and I'm realizing that self respect is more important than finding a partner first. Plus, I'm too afraid of everything, and all the awful, misogynistic people I've met, and the situations I got myself into

[Edited 10/1/11 23:49pm]

Self respect is everything. I don't think a relationship works if you don't have very much of it going in. I also have that old fashion idea that a man should be a wee more attracted to the woman then the woman is to that man and that he should do most of the pursuing. I am not saying play mind games but if "he is just not that into you" accept it and move on. Those among us who are frightened of relationships have seen women throw away their own dreams on them only to be themselves thrown away later.

I don't see people who are single as less than people in couples. I never really did. When I was in high school there were girls who read Bride Magazine. That was their goal in life. To them that was the key to happy ever after, I saw it as the beginning of the end for most of the female members of my family.

yeah I've said for so many years that I don't need a guy I'm fine, and if anyone disrespected me, I pushed them away easily, and felt better listening to music by myself , though sometimes I felt lonely, though I let interests and hobbies and work define me though I also realized that all backfired. I always planned imaginary weddings but was not planning one at all. And yeah, I did love someone from afar though I insisted it wasn't like that, I was very blind to what I was doing and how I was getting so caught up in that. Recently, I did see someone, but I let my hair down and made mistakes and nearly lost my self-respect cause my weaknesses were used to get closer to me and I let it suck me in.

if anyone ever approaches me about finding one, I just say it's more important to love yourself before anyone else respects you and loves you, and yet I found myself in something messy though that's over now :*( I think I was vulnerable though I tried to hide it and those weaknesses were used to get me closer

[Edited 10/2/11 21:23pm]

For me a great deal of it involves spirituality and this is not P & R and I do not want to go there with it.

Make no mistake about it, I do want love/a lover in my life. It is something I hope I am given the chance to really experience in this lifetime. I just do not want to be attached to Mr Will Do should Mr Right come along. I have also worked in a nursing home and seen loving husbands visit their wives who have Alzheimer's and can not remember even having husbands half the time. These husbands still come faithfully to check on their wives and the way that they hold their hand would bring tears to my eyes. There really is such a thing as "the greatest love" and I can't seem to settle for less. I may be 70 before I find such a great love though but I still believe that God will allow me to experience it in this lifetime.

yes the spirituality part was one of my weaknesses, and completely preyed on to get me closer

I'm fine with being single cause I hate commitment and am too stubborn to change myself for anyone, but if I find a deserving partner , no matter how old, that's nice too, I don't feel rushed, especially cause I already know I don't want children, and if I ever do, not biologically at all. I don't want to put them or myself through complications at all.

[Edited 10/2/11 21:38pm]

Today while walking home, I overheard a couple who had just left a restaurant and they were about to start arguing when the guy goes, "Don't you loud talk me, or I'll slap you"....my first thought was, I woulda went back in the restaurant and got a knife and...oh nevermind

So yeah I guess it's good that I'm single because if a guy pulled that number on me, he'd really be in for a surprise!

Control and possessiveness are awful too, especially if he starts to do it every time you talk to someone else in the beginning, or guilt trips you, it's not a good sign and could be potential abuse, although at the same time, some people who act like that do not realize the path they are going down because they are too caught up in worrying about losing their partner.

Deadflow3r said:

For me a great deal of it involves spirituality and this is not P & R and I do not want to go there with it.

Make no mistake about it, I do want love/a lover in my life. It is something I hope I am given the chance to really experience in this lifetime. I just do not want to be attached to Mr Will Do should Mr Right come along. I have also worked in a nursing home and seen loving husbands visit their wives who have Alzheimer's and can not remember even having husbands half the time. These husbands still come faithfully to check on their wives and the way that they hold their hand would bring tears to my eyes. There really is such a thing as "the greatest love" and I can't seem to settle for less. I may be 70 before I find such a great love though but I still believe that God will allow me to experience it in this lifetime.

Yeah I know exactly what you mean....it's like you're ready for the real deal not just a warm body to kill time with and go dancing with on the weekends....

I am completely over clubbing now, too much physical pain and headaches. I gave up on going often sometimes in my late teens, and then only liked it occasionally, but even that was such a headache though it could change. Maybe just the people I go with make it annoying cause of not having the same taste.

I wanted someone to talk to as well, not someone who wanted me like that all the time and me having needs too and using my weaknesses to get closer.

SeventeenDayze said:

Today while walking home, I overheard a couple who had just left a restaurant and they were about to start arguing when the guy goes, "Don't you loud talk me, or I'll slap you"....my first thought was, I woulda went back in the restaurant and got a knife and...oh nevermind

So yeah I guess it's good that I'm single because if a guy pulled that number on me, he'd really be in for a surprise!

I don't see the relation between this event and to be happy about being single.

It's horrible that that man threatened her with slapping her! It's dramatic that she can't get herself out of that relationship and protect herself.

However, you don't draw any implications if you had seen a couple leaving the restaurant, deeply in love and cherishing eachother. You don't think "It's bad that I'm single, because if a guy would be like that I would be happy and now I'm not."

Your happines doesn't solely depend on your relationship status, does it?

You'll be fine, and I hope that one day you can differentiate between -your fears that you developed due to what you experienced with your mom and what you've seen happen around you- and -your own longing for love and the struggle with being vulnerable and all mushy inside.

No, it ain't bad or weird to feel that way. I'm in my late 20s and feel the same.

Except in that only marriage is what makes me feel that way, not necessarily long-term relationship or committment.

I've never had any fantasies about married life or raising kids.

Frankly, I'm even afraid of the possibility that I might end up wanting to get married

I mean, we never know what we would feel at a certain point in our lives, let alone what others would.

Sometimes, I do think I'm too selfish or hedonistic to make "that joyful sacrifice" (as in Mary J. Blige joint called "It's On")

But it's not that I'm feeling guilty about it. It's just the way I look at myself, like standing in front of the mirror and facing the real, barenaked me.

I have this small fear, tho. I hope some of you can shed a light on it.

Not trying to hijack this thread or anything cuz I believe it has something to do with the entire thread.

OK, here's the thing.

If I'm in, like, in my late 30s or early 40s.

And I go out and date a man with no promise of marriage, then, the guy is more likely to treat me with any less deep, true respect?

I mean, even if he might not show it to me or any one else,

he thinks, deep down, I'm more like a fuck buddy whom he doesn't have to feel attached to?

Again, for emphasis, he's not abusive physically and/or emotionally in this scenario.

What I'm saying is that it would be just the way he feels about me, if he's really honest with himself.

[Edited 10/3/11 4:48am]

[Edited 10/3/11 4:54am]

[Edited 10/3/11 4:55am]

Genesia said:

dJJ said:

It's opposite of "whatever the market will bear"

If I would have followed that principle, I would have had children with one of my ex-boyfriends by now. And I'm glad that I haven't.

I'm not negative about familieties that don't resemble the western christian ideals. In different cultures there are different views on childrearing. And I don't think that the traditional American way of two straight people and two children is the only good way to rear a child. I think there is enough proof that that 'ideal' situation doesn't apply to everybody and also in reality isn't ideal at all.

Hold on there.

I didn't say anything about "western christian ideals" or gay parenting. I replied specifically to the notion that people who never had any intention of forming a family would just have a baby by contract - and let the sociological chips fall where they may.

Djj and Millitant have basically said what I would have said. But I do want to point out that I don't agree with "the notion that people who never had any intention of forming a family" part. "family" does NOT just mean 2 parents in the same household with kids. Family is soooo much more than that. Also I didn't say I thought this was the way to go...just said sometimes I wonder.

SHOCKADELICA1 said:

Don't sweat it.

All that "marriage/committment" crap is highly overated.

EveryTHING is not for everyBODY.

Do what makes ya happy.

I agree.

inia said:

No, it ain't bad or weird to feel that way. I'm in my late 20s and feel the same.

Except in that only marriage is what makes me feel that way, not necessarily long-term relationship or committment.

I've never had any fantasies about married life or raising kids.

Frankly, I'm even afraid of the possibility that I might end up wanting to get married

I mean, we never know what we would feel at a certain point in our lives, let alone what others would.

Sometimes, I do think I'm too selfish or hedonistic to make "that joyful sacrifice" (as in Mary J. Blige joint called "It's On")

But it's not that I'm feeling guilty about it. It's just the way I look at myself, like standing in front of the mirror and facing the real, barenaked me.

I have this small fear, tho. I hope some of you can shed a light on it.

Not trying to hijack this thread or anything cuz I believe it has something to do with the entire thread.

OK, here's the thing.

If I'm in, like, in my late 30s or early 40s.

And I go out and date a man with no promise of marriage, then, the guy is more likely to treat me with any less deep, true respect?

I mean, even if he might not show it to me or any one else,

he thinks, deep down, I'm more like a fuck buddy whom he doesn't have to feel attached to?

Again, for emphasis, he's not abusive physically and/or emotionally in this scenario.

What I'm saying is that it would be just the way he feels about me, if he's really honest with himself.

[Edited 10/3/11 4:48am]

[Edited 10/3/11 4:54am]

[Edited 10/3/11 4:55am]

I am not a scientist (sociologist or psychologist) of any kind so I am just talking pure opinion here. I think that the fact that you are not looking for more is in your advantage. I think that there are very many men that keep a woman on their back burner, so to speak, because she thinks that she has a chance at marriage eventually. I think women are much more desperate for marriage at around your age then men are and men use that. You not having that Achilles heel changes the game a bit for them. I would think they'd get it that you had know motive for putting up with sorry-ass behavior because you were not feeling the ticking clock. Maybe you would make an excellent fuck buddy but if that isn't what you want you just have to make that clear.

[Edited 10/3/11 8:47am]