paintedlady said:

I guess Vogue (Italy) ignores its own history and its part in it slave trade throughout history. Hello people!!

I don't get it? Why glamorize a part of your OWN ugly past? I hate that people - IGNORANT people try to make this an issue that only affect African Americans. Italians shouldn't want to glorify or celebrate any wrong they attributed to in its own history. Their hands are bloody too. Many if not all the European countries profited and gained from the slave trade until Brittian stood up and helped to abolish trading routes on the high seas... the story of Amistad rings a bell.

I guess I don't know much about geography of Asian countires, but at least I know more than many people who forget that slavery that brought the Africans to the Americas was a world wide and ongoing atrocity that went on for CENUTURIES.

How ignorant does one have to be not to care? I think they know they just choose NOT to care.

There is nothing sexy about slavery.

Peter, a slave from Baton Rouge,

Guess Vogue should hire make-up artists to make welts on their models backs to complete the look! Oh... sooo sexay!!!

I am so glad that you pointed out that it went on for centuries.

The more you read on it the more horrified you get. No one wants to look at it. It is beyond gross so we put it out of our minds. What else happens? We put the people who chose to live and love life and God verses commiting suicide-which is what I would have done-out of our minds aswell.

I don't think Italians are glorifying owning people. What I think they are trying to do is give credit to these people for their endless creativity, passion, artistic flair etc all in the face of being the most mistreated people in history.

I have a great deal of love for these people. I hate when they are referred to as "black" or "African American" because recent imigrants from Uganda or Ghana are also refered to as Black or African American aswell. The Slaves formed their own culture wrought out of the 3 continents of which their ancestors were from, North America, Africa, and Europe. Due to literally being breed like cattle, their decendants are more often than not less than 50% African.

To me the are a uniquely American people and should be seen as a uniquely American culture and their descendants should have the same respect as Native Americans. They should be able to go to state schools for free IMO.

I am very prone to self pity and reading about slaves and their ability to live and love despite so much worse than I will ever know snaps me out of self pity every time.

Deadflow3r said:

paintedlady said:

I guess Vogue (Italy) ignores its own history and its part in it slave trade throughout history. Hello people!!

I don't get it? Why glamorize a part of your OWN ugly past? I hate that people - IGNORANT people try to make this an issue that only affect African Americans. Italians shouldn't want to glorify or celebrate any wrong they attributed to in its own history. Their hands are bloody too. Many if not all the European countries profited and gained from the slave trade until Brittian stood up and helped to abolish trading routes on the high seas... the story of Amistad rings a bell.

I guess I don't know much about geography of Asian countires, but at least I know more than many people who forget that slavery that brought the Africans to the Americas was a world wide and ongoing atrocity that went on for CENUTURIES.

How ignorant does one have to be not to care? I think they know they just choose NOT to care.

There is nothing sexy about slavery.

Peter, a slave from Baton Rouge,

Guess Vogue should hire make-up artists to make welts on their models backs to complete the look! Oh... sooo sexay!!!

I am so glad that you pointed out that it went on for centuries.

The more you read on it the more horrified you get. No one wants to look at it. It is beyond gross so we put it out of our minds. What else happens? We put the people who chose to live and love life and God verses commiting suicide-which is what I would have done-out of our minds aswell.

I don't think Italians are glorifying owning people. What I think they are trying to do is give credit to these people for their endless creativity, passion, artistic flair etc all in the face of being the most mistreated people in history.

I have a great deal of love for these people. I hate when they are referred to as "black" or "African American" because recent imigrants from Uganda or Ghana are also refered to as Black or African American aswell. The Slaves formed their own culture wrought out of the 3 continents of which their ancestors were from, North America, Africa, and Europe. Due to literally being breed like cattle, their decendants are more often than not less than 50% African.

To me the are a uniquely American people and should be seen as a uniquely American culture and their descendants should have the same respect as Native Americans. They should be able to go to state schools for free IMO.

I am very prone to self pity and reading about slaves and their ability to live and love despite so much worse than I will ever know snaps me out of self pity every time.

The "slave" issue is not just an African American issue. WTH do we keep making this solely about African Americans? Slavery was all over the world because slavery was good for business when it was legal.

But yeah... Vogue fucked up in a HUGE way. Slaves did not choose to wear chains of bondage and that should not be made into some sort of cutesy fashion statement. Its just wrong IMHO. Its just as bad as making a fashion statement called "rape" skirts. Its totally distasteful and disrespectful of a strong people who have suffered so much and still struggle this very day for equality and the dignity they deserve. In many countries being black is still an undesirable quality which is just sad.

I myself never understood "white guilt"... but if I were white, I would do my best to understand the past so that I could better appreciate myself. Who the hell wants to live with guilt? I don't understand that, and there is no reason for it because white people are not superior to black people in any way. People are people, no need for living in any kind of shame or fear of other people because they look different or think differently. We still live with the effects of slavery, but I don't think people should walk around feeling angry or guilty. We should all just face truth and work towards real equality in our own lives.

The more I learn about slavery the more I realize that we as a people are more alike than different. As a black person, and a descendant from slaves I am proud of how strong my people are through all that adversity... and those scars are a testament of strength, not weakness. That picture of "Peter" is a picture of a strong man who is a survivor. That is what I celebrate and want people to see and know Peter. Ask about Peter, because Peter was a man, a person with feelings and not some novelty. Put Peter on the cover of a magazine, let people see, let people ask about Peter and remember him....as a man, a strong man that is a survivor.

Vogue should put a human face to an atrocity, not try to make it some sort of cute trend. What where they thinking?

I get your point but I think what gets lost here is that because they lived outside the main culture for centuries they built a culture of their own and that culture is one that is very influential world wide. I wish there was a different name for these people because "slave descendants" just defines them by the very thing that they fought hard against; yet at the same time "Black" and "African American" are not specific to that same group of people.

Anyway it is clear that everyone needs to be more sensative to anything that makes it seem like being a slave wasn't all that bad after all and makes light of the horror of it all.

I don't know about white guilt. The truth is that some people had many slaves while poor whites had none and other poor whites were indentured servants which wasn't a picnic either. My relatives came over here in the early 1900's after slavery had ended and many imigrants from Europe came over in the later part of the 19th century and early 20th century. They never had slaves and their decendants don't feel guilty because they don't see slavery as something their brick layer, factory working ancestors were guilty of promoting.

Deadflow3r said:

I get your point but I think what gets lost here is that because they lived outside the main culture for centuries they built a culture of their own and that culture is one that is very influential world wide. I wish there was a different name for these people because "slave descendants" just defines them by the very thing that they fought hard against; yet at the same time "Black" and "African American" are not specific to that same group of people.

Anyway it is clear that everyone needs to be more sensative to anything that makes it seem like being a slave wasn't all that bad after all and makes light of the horror of it all.

I don't know about white guilt. The truth is that some people had many slaves while poor whites had none and other poor whites were indentured servants which wasn't a picnic either. My relatives came over here in the early 1900's after slavery had ended and many imigrants from Europe came over in the later part of the 19th century and early 20th century. They never had slaves and their decendants don't feel guilty because they don't see slavery as something their brick layer, factory working ancestors were guilty of promoting.

That's the thing... the connection. Slaves were a part of the culture, their history and stories died with them though since their storeis weren't written about. They did help shape ALL cultures they were a part of, the music alone is a good example.

Negro-spirituals from American slaves helped shaped what ALL American music is today.

You already know I am sure... Purple music is one such lovely type.

The connection from a past to the present.

In the present some say "it happened so long ago". But many white hard working immigrants still received favor over black people who did the same. All poor people wanted to work and the truth is, blacks weren't allowed to get the jobs because immigrant whites were considered for those jobs first. It was unfair to many who built buildings and laid pavements that housed those same immigrants that came into America and were placed before the black people trying to make some money too. But that truth has changed for the most part and black people from all countries have a real chance now of success.... except in Italy it seems.

anywho... I say ALL that to say....

Its the same kind of racism (institutionalized racism) that will disregard an entire group of people while trying to make money off of them at the same time. AH HELL NO! Its a sad state of affairs when an established magazine like Vogue would do such a thing, they should just know better. All Italians should know better dammit... they helped capture and ship those slaves too. They should know their own history to know better than that.

Someone needs to fire that editor and whoever else thought it was a good idea to call a hoop earring and "slave" earring. Disgraceful.

paintedlady said:

Deadflow3r said:

I get your point but I think what gets lost here is that because they lived outside the main culture for centuries they built a culture of their own and that culture is one that is very influential world wide. I wish there was a different name for these people because "slave descendants" just defines them by the very thing that they fought hard against; yet at the same time "Black" and "African American" are not specific to that same group of people.

Anyway it is clear that everyone needs to be more sensative to anything that makes it seem like being a slave wasn't all that bad after all and makes light of the horror of it all.

I don't know about white guilt. The truth is that some people had many slaves while poor whites had none and other poor whites were indentured servants which wasn't a picnic either. My relatives came over here in the early 1900's after slavery had ended and many imigrants from Europe came over in the later part of the 19th century and early 20th century. They never had slaves and their decendants don't feel guilty because they don't see slavery as something their brick layer, factory working ancestors were guilty of promoting.

That's the thing... the connection. Slaves were a part of the culture, their history and stories died with them though since their storeis weren't written about. They did help shape ALL cultures they were a part of, the music alone is a good example.

Negro-spirituals from American slaves helped shaped what ALL American music is today.

You already know I am sure... Purple music is one such lovely type.

The connection from a past to the present.

In the present some say "it happened so long ago". But many white hard working immigrants still received favor over black people who did the same. All poor people wanted to work and the truth is, blacks weren't allowed to get the jobs because immigrant whites were considered for those jobs first. It was unfair to many who built buildings and laid pavements that housed those same immigrants that came into America and were placed before the black people trying to make some money too. But that truth has changed for the most part and black people from all countries have a real chance now of success.... except in Italy it seems.

anywho... I say ALL that to say....

Its the same kind of racism (institutionalized racism) that will disregard an entire group of people while trying to make money off of them at the same time. AH HELL NO! Its a sad state of affairs when an established magazine like Vogue would do such a thing, they should just know better. All Italians should know better dammit... they helped capture and ship those slaves too. They should know their own history to know better than that.

Someone needs to fire that editor and whoever else thought it was a good idea to call a hoop earring and "slave" earring. Disgraceful.

Their story was written but often in little obscure books that are hard to find. What you said about white imigrants taking jobs in now true of ALL imigrants. I see people newly arriving from Kenya and Uganda and other African countries having an easier time finding work than the people originally called "African Americans" but they are now also considered African Americans so they can use Affirmative Action to get the few possitions that the Slave decendants had any hope of getting. Sadly enough, the new imigrants from Africa seem to bond more quickly with the decendant of previous imigration waves from Europe. Like whites they seem to want nothing to do with Slave descendants except to listen to their music and copy their style.

That is why someone needs to come up with another name for these people that can not be used by anybody else. Something like "Creole" but they are not all Creole. They also need to the same level of respect shown to their culture that is shown to Hawaiins, Samoans and all Native Americans. They should not be asked to "move on" and they need to stop being pressured to assimulate in order to be accepted into corporate America.