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Thread started 08/14/11 12:27pm

SUPRMAN

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You're likely to confess, even if you didn't do it

Silence is golden

People have a strange and worrying tendency to admit to things they have not, in fact, done

SINCE 1992 the Innocence Project, an American legal charity, has used DNA evidence to help exonerate 271 people who were wrongly convicted of crimes, sometimes after they had served dozens of years in prison. But a mystery has emerged from the case reports. Despite being innocent, around a quarter of these people had confessed or pleaded guilty to the offences of which they were accused.

It seems hard to imagine that anyone of sound mind would take the blame for something he did not do. But several researchers have found it surprisingly easy to make people fess up to invented misdemeanours. Admittedly these confessions are taking place in a laboratory rather than an interrogation room, so the stakes might not appear that high to the confessor. On the other hand, the pressures that can be brought to bear in a police station are much stronger than those in a lab. The upshot is that it seems worryingly simple to extract a false confession from someone—which he might find hard subsequently to retract.

I must confess

One of the most recent papers on the subject, published inLaw and Human Behavior by Saul Kassin and Jennifer Perillo of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, used a group of 71 university students who were told they were taking part in a test of their reaction times. Participants were asked to press keys on a keyboard as they were read aloud by another person, who was secretly in cahoots with the experimenter. The volunteers were informed that the ALT key was faulty, and that if it was pressed the computer would crash and all the experimental data would be lost. The experimenter watched the proceedings from across the table.

In fact, the computer was set up to crash regardless, about a minute into the test. When this happened the experimenter asked each participant if he had pressed the illicit key, acted as if he was upset when it was “discovered” that the data had disappeared, and requested that the participant sign a confession. Only one person actually did hit the ALT key by mistake, but a quarter of the innocent participants were so disarmed by the shock of the accusation that they confessed to something they had not done.

Robert Horselenberg and his colleagues at Maastricht University, in the Netherlands, have come up with similar results. In an as-yet-unpublished study, members of Dr Horselenberg’s group told 83 people that they were taking part in a taste test for a supermarket chain. The top taster would win a prize such as an iPad or a set of DVDs. The volunteers were asked to try ten cans of fizzy drink and guess which was which. The labels were obscured by socks pulled up to the rim of each can, so to cheat a volunteer had only to lower the sock.

During the test, which was filmed by a hidden camera, ten participants actually did cheat. Bafflingly, though, another eight falsely confessed when accused by the experimenter, despite participants having been told cheats would be fined €50 ($72).

The number of innocent confessors jumps when various interrogation techniques are added to the mix. Several experiments, for example, have focused on the use of false evidence, as when police pretend they have proof of a person’s guilt in order to encourage him to confess. This is usually permitted in the United States, though banned in Britain.

A second computer-crash test conducted by Dr Kassin and Dr Perillo used this technique. Another person in the room beside the experimenter said he saw the participant hitting the ALT key. In this case the confession rate jumped to 80% of innocent participants. Dr Horselenberg and his colleagues found something similar.

Dr Kassin also tested the impact of bluffing. Two participants, one of whom was again in cahoots with the investigator, sat in the same room and were asked to complete what appeared to be an academic test. Halfway through, the investigator accused them of helping each other and cited the university’s honour code against cheating. The investigator went on to bluff that there was a video camera in the room, though the recording, with its definitive proof one way or the other, would not be accessible until later. In the real world, this might be like a detective telling a suspect that DNA or fingerprint evidence had been found but not yet analysed (in Britain as well as America, if such a statement were actually true, police would be permitted to say it, though in the case of the experiment it was a lie). Presumably, the innocent participants knew such a tape would exonerate them. Even so, half still confessed.

All of which is both strange and rather alarming. Dr Kassin suggests that participants may have the naive—though common—belief that the world is a just place, and that their innocence will emerge in the end, particularly in the case of the alleged video evidence. One participant, for example, told him, “it made it easier [to sign the confession] because I had nothing to hide. The cameras would prove it.”

In cases like that, confession is seen as a way to end an unpleasant interrogation. But it is a risky one. In the real world, such faith can be misplaced. Though a lot of jurisdictions require corroborating evidence, in practice self-condemnation is pretty damning—and, it seems, surprisingly easy to induce.

http://www.economist.com/node/21525840

[Edited 8/14/11 12:28pm]

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #1 posted 08/14/11 12:32pm

paintedlady

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hmmm So you are attracted to women afterall?

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Reply #2 posted 08/14/11 12:41pm

SUPRMAN

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paintedlady said:

hmmm So you are attracted to women afterall?

Lol I'm not admitting to that.

But I can see myself agreeing to such a statement to end an interrogation. After all, "who really cares?"

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #3 posted 08/14/11 12:43pm

paintedlady

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SUPRMAN said:

paintedlady said:

hmmm So you are attracted to women afterall?

Lol I'm not admitting to that.

But I can see myself agreeing to such a statement to end an interrogation. After all, "who really cares?"

The women who want to fuck you care... we care very much. boo

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Reply #4 posted 08/14/11 12:49pm

SUPRMAN

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paintedlady said:

SUPRMAN said:

Lol I'm not admitting to that.

But I can see myself agreeing to such a statement to end an interrogation. After all, "who really cares?"

The women who want to fuck you care... we care very much. boo

My bad.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #5 posted 08/14/11 12:50pm

paintedlady

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SUPRMAN said:

paintedlady said:

The women who want to fuck you care... we care very much. boo

My bad.

Its OK... I am sure we'll find a way to keep on living... somehow.

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Reply #6 posted 08/14/11 1:02pm

armpit

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Yeah, it's kind of obvious that most of the people who confess to shit they didn't do, do it to end the interrogation, or because they think they're fucked either way and that no one believes them and that the judge will give them a lesser sentence if they 'confess'.

Personally, I've never ever confessed guilt for something I didn't do, even during times where confessing non-existent 'guilt' would've just made things easier on me, I still say no because I just absolutely refuse to take responsibility for something I didn't do.

"I don't think you'd do well in captivity." - random person's comment to me the other day
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Reply #7 posted 08/14/11 1:06pm

SUPRMAN

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armpit said:

Yeah, it's kind of obvious that most of the people who confess to shit they didn't do, do it to end the interrogation, or because they think they're fucked either way and that no one believes them and that the judge will give them a lesser sentence if they 'confess'.

Personally, I've never ever confessed guilt for something I didn't do, even during times where confessing non-existent 'guilt' would've just made things easier on me, I still say no because I just absolutely refuse to take responsibility for something I didn't do.

So why do we put so much weight on "confessions?"

If someone confesses, some are ready for blood.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #8 posted 08/14/11 1:08pm

armpit

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SUPRMAN said:

armpit said:

Yeah, it's kind of obvious that most of the people who confess to shit they didn't do, do it to end the interrogation, or because they think they're fucked either way and that no one believes them and that the judge will give them a lesser sentence if they 'confess'.

Personally, I've never ever confessed guilt for something I didn't do, even during times where confessing non-existent 'guilt' would've just made things easier on me, I still say no because I just absolutely refuse to take responsibility for something I didn't do.

So why do we put so much weight on "confessions?"

If someone confesses, some are ready for blood.

Good question.

But a lot of people are...kinda fucking stupid and assume a confession MUST mean guilt.

"I don't think you'd do well in captivity." - random person's comment to me the other day
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Reply #9 posted 08/15/11 10:54am

BobGeorge909

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there was a episode of NOVA about ex-military soldiers or something... who foldd and crumbled from 8-9 hours of straight interrogation, and confessed to raping and murdering this woman. First one, they interrogated till he "rememberd" an accomplice...then they repeated that process till 4 people were in jail. ONE of which had neither raped NOR murdered the woman...NOR been in the vicinity when it happened. Some were even out of state. They all still have to register as sex offenders.

it was pretty terrible

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Reply #10 posted 08/15/11 10:59am

HotGritz

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Only dumb people confess to shit they didn't do. Moderately intelligent folk make a partial confession, just enough to gain freedom but to satisfy the popo. Really smart folk don't say shit, they just get a good lawyer.

Ice T is so damned ugly. He looks like a beat up, alchoholic, half-cooked, Italian man.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #11 posted 08/15/11 11:04am

SexLovely

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HotGritz said:

Only dumb people confess to shit they didn't do. Moderately intelligent folk make a partial confession, just enough to gain freedom but to satisfy the popo. Really smart folk don't say shit, they just get a good lawyer.

Ice T is so damned ugly. He looks like a beat up, alchoholic, half-cooked, Italian man.

eek

I was just starting to get my appetite back.....and then read your comment and so looked at his face and now ill

U have a talent for this!!

biggrin

.

[Edited 8/15/11 11:05am]

"...because no-one gets there alone." - "...I like the floor. It's the only thing that seems real."
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Reply #12 posted 08/15/11 11:07am

HotGritz

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SexLovely said:

HotGritz said:

Only dumb people confess to shit they didn't do. Moderately intelligent folk make a partial confession, just enough to gain freedom but to satisfy the popo. Really smart folk don't say shit, they just get a good lawyer.

Ice T is so damned ugly. He looks like a beat up, alchoholic, half-cooked, Italian man.

eek

I was just starting to get my appetite back.....and then read your comment and so looked at his face and now ill

U have a talent for this!!

biggrin

.

[Edited 8/15/11 11:05am]

At least I didn't talk about the hamhock on the back of that man's head. Smuggling high cholesterol food into an interrogation room should be unlawful. Ice T just got a whole lot uglier.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #13 posted 08/15/11 11:22am

SexLovely

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HotGritz said:

SexLovely said:

eek

I was just starting to get my appetite back.....and then read your comment and so looked at his face and now ill

U have a talent for this!!

biggrin

.

[Edited 8/15/11 11:05am]

At least I didn't talk about the hamhock on the back of that man's head. Smuggling high cholesterol food into an interrogation room should be unlawful. Ice T just got a whole lot uglier.

Ohhh DUDE!! barf I didnt see that first time round...........all I'll have in my gut tonight is bile i think.

[Edited 8/15/11 11:22am]

"...because no-one gets there alone." - "...I like the floor. It's the only thing that seems real."
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Reply #14 posted 08/15/11 11:53am

BobGeorge909

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HotGritz said:

Only dumb people confess to shit they didn't do. Moderately intelligent folk make a partial confession, just enough to gain freedom but to satisfy the popo. Really smart folk don't say shit, they just get a good lawyer.

Ice T is so damned ugly. He looks like a beat up, alchoholic, half-cooked, Italian man.

u say that...but U be stuck in a room with some swarthy detective who pounds and yells and manipulates and lies...

I like to think that I wouldn't either...but the three or four dudes in that NOVA spoke of how their confidence in what they knew to be true slowly deteriorate(sp?) till they slowy just began to believe what was being told to them. (Granted...some did "look" like a couple of knuckleheads, but I don't wanna stereotype...they're just human like the rest of us...that said..sometimes Cornell West "looks" homeless...but I know he's not.)

the wort case of this I seen is with that kid...I think his name was michael mann or something...they interrogated this 10-12 y/o till he confessed to his sisters murder. Now that was a child...but fals confessions happen all the time. Also, criminals will confess to an alternate version of the crime they actually did commit...sometimes ADDING false charges to what actually happened.

I'm not even gonna get started on false child molestation charges...nearly indefensible.

[Edited 8/15/11 12:05pm]

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Reply #15 posted 08/15/11 12:00pm

whistle

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armpit said:

Yeah, it's kind of obvious that most of the people who confess to shit they didn't do, do it to end the interrogation, or because they think they're fucked either way and that no one believes them and that the judge will give them a lesser sentence if they 'confess'.

Personally, I've never ever confessed guilt for something I didn't do, even during times where confessing non-existent 'guilt' would've just made things easier on me, I still say no because I just absolutely refuse to take responsibility for something I didn't do.

what's it like being smarter than everyone else?

everyone's a fruit & nut case
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Reply #16 posted 08/15/11 1:39pm

HotGritz

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BobGeorge909 said:

HotGritz said:

Only dumb people confess to shit they didn't do. Moderately intelligent folk make a partial confession, just enough to gain freedom but to satisfy the popo. Really smart folk don't say shit, they just get a good lawyer.

Ice T is so damned ugly. He looks like a beat up, alchoholic, half-cooked, Italian man.

u say that...but U be stuck in a room with some swarthy detective who pounds and yells and manipulates and lies...

I like to think that I wouldn't either...but the three or four dudes in that NOVA spoke of how their confidence in what they knew to be true slowly deteriorate(sp?) till they slowy just began to believe what was being told to them. (Granted...some did "look" like a couple of knuckleheads, but I don't wanna stereotype...they're just human like the rest of us...that said..sometimes Cornell West "looks" homeless...but I know he's not.)

the wort case of this I seen is with that kid...I think his name was michael mann or something...they interrogated this 10-12 y/o till he confessed to his sisters murder. Now that was a child...but fals confessions happen all the time. Also, criminals will confess to an alternate version of the crime they actually did commit...sometimes ADDING false charges to what actually happened.

I'm not even gonna get started on false child molestation charges...nearly indefensible.

[Edited 8/15/11 12:05pm]

Now see children are different. They don't stand a chance up against some intimidating, bad breath having, lying (your friend said you did it), threatening and menacing type of man or even woman. Kids will say whatever the adult wants them to say because they are fearful and don't have the maturity and life experience to deal with a con artist which is what the detective really is.

An adult, particulary one who is not an idiot and has been off his/her stoop or even watched a couple detective stories should know better. What kind of idiot can't keep their mouth shut until they get a lawyer? What kind of idiot would confess to something that would land him or her in prison for damn near the rest of their lives?

Like I said, dumb people will fall for this game each and every time.

Now if you ARE guilty of SOMETHING and you confess to ANYTHING, well....can't say I feel sorry for ya. shrug Somebody gotta do the time and it might as well be the dumb ass.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #17 posted 08/15/11 8:44pm

SUPRMAN

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HotGritz said:

BobGeorge909 said:

u say that...but U be stuck in a room with some swarthy detective who pounds and yells and manipulates and lies...

I like to think that I wouldn't either...but the three or four dudes in that NOVA spoke of how their confidence in what they knew to be true slowly deteriorate(sp?) till they slowy just began to believe what was being told to them. (Granted...some did "look" like a couple of knuckleheads, but I don't wanna stereotype...they're just human like the rest of us...that said..sometimes Cornell West "looks" homeless...but I know he's not.)

the wort case of this I seen is with that kid...I think his name was michael mann or something...they interrogated this 10-12 y/o till he confessed to his sisters murder. Now that was a child...but fals confessions happen all the time. Also, criminals will confess to an alternate version of the crime they actually did commit...sometimes ADDING false charges to what actually happened.

I'm not even gonna get started on false child molestation charges...nearly indefensible.

[Edited 8/15/11 12:05pm]

Now see children are different. They don't stand a chance up against some intimidating, bad breath having, lying (your friend said you did it), threatening and menacing type of man or even woman. Kids will say whatever the adult wants them to say because they are fearful and don't have the maturity and life experience to deal with a con artist which is what the detective really is.

An adult, particulary one who is not an idiot and has been off his/her stoop or even watched a couple detective stories should know better. What kind of idiot can't keep their mouth shut until they get a lawyer? What kind of idiot would confess to something that would land him or her in prison for damn near the rest of their lives?

Like I said, dumb people will fall for this game each and every time.

Now if you ARE guilty of SOMETHING and you confess to ANYTHING, well....can't say I feel sorry for ya. shrug Somebody gotta do the time and it might as well be the dumb ass.

During the test, which was filmed by a hidden camera, ten participants actually did cheat. Bafflingly, though, another eight falsely confessed when accused by the experimenter, despite participants having been told cheats would be fined €50 ($72).

The number of innocent confessors jumps when various interrogation techniques are added to the mix. Several experiments, for example, have focused on the use of false evidence, as when police pretend they have proof of a person’s guilt in order to encourage him to confess. This is usually permitted in the United States, though banned in Britain.

These tests were run on university students. Not typically the shallow end of the pool.

But still confesses to acts they did not do.

Interrogation is not an intelligence test.

The article also noted, "It seems hard to imagine that anyone of sound mind would take the blame for something he did not do. But several researchers have found it surprisingly easy to make people fess up to invented misdemeanours."

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #18 posted 08/15/11 10:11pm

BobGeorge909

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SUPRMAN said:

HotGritz said:

Now see children are different. They don't stand a chance up against some intimidating, bad breath having, lying (your friend said you did it), threatening and menacing type of man or even woman. Kids will say whatever the adult wants them to say because they are fearful and don't have the maturity and life experience to deal with a con artist which is what the detective really is.

An adult, particulary one who is not an idiot and has been off his/her stoop or even watched a couple detective stories should know better. What kind of idiot can't keep their mouth shut until they get a lawyer? What kind of idiot would confess to something that would land him or her in prison for damn near the rest of their lives?

Like I said, dumb people will fall for this game each and every time.

Now if you ARE guilty of SOMETHING and you confess to ANYTHING, well....can't say I feel sorry for ya. shrug Somebody gotta do the time and it might as well be the dumb ass.

During the test, which was filmed by a hidden camera, ten participants actually did cheat. Bafflingly, though, another eight falsely confessed when accused by the experimenter, despite participants having been told cheats would be fined €50 ($72).

The number of innocent confessors jumps when various interrogation techniques are added to the mix. Several experiments, for example, have focused on the use of false evidence, as when police pretend they have proof of a person’s guilt in order to encourage him to confess. This is usually permitted in the United States, though banned in Britain.

These tests were run on university students. Not typically the shallow end of the pool.

But still confesses to acts they did not do.

Interrogation is not an intelligence test.

The article also noted, "It seems hard to imagine that anyone of sound mind would take the blame for something he did not do. But several researchers have found it surprisingly easy to make people fess up to invented misdemeanours."

thanx dude.

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Reply #19 posted 08/15/11 11:12pm

Cerebus

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I know this is true and happens pretty regularly, but thankfully, I'm not one of those people. If I didn't do it, why would I EVER say I did? In fact, I once convinced law enforcement that I didn't do something I had actually done. They had no proof (which I knew), kept trying to scare tactic me into admitting it, I ran them in circles, asking for their evidence each time they tried a new angle, they failed. There's a bit more to it than that, but, yeah. That's that. lol Anyway, gotta be grateful at least for the advent of DNA evidence being put into the process of prosecuting criminals where other visual evidence is not available.

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Reply #20 posted 08/16/11 4:22am

missfee

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BobGeorge909 said:

HotGritz said:

Only dumb people confess to shit they didn't do. Moderately intelligent folk make a partial confession, just enough to gain freedom but to satisfy the popo. Really smart folk don't say shit, they just get a good lawyer.

Ice T is so damned ugly. He looks like a beat up, alchoholic, half-cooked, Italian man.

u say that...but U be stuck in a room with some swarthy detective who pounds and yells and manipulates and lies...

I like to think that I wouldn't either...but the three or four dudes in that NOVA spoke of how their confidence in what they knew to be true slowly deteriorate(sp?) till they slowy just began to believe what was being told to them. (Granted...some did "look" like a couple of knuckleheads, but I don't wanna stereotype...they're just human like the rest of us...that said..sometimes Cornell West "looks" homeless...but I know he's not.)

the wort case of this I seen is with that kid...I think his name was michael mann or something...they interrogated this 10-12 y/o till he confessed to his sisters murder. Now that was a child...but fals confessions happen all the time. Also, criminals will confess to an alternate version of the crime they actually did commit...sometimes ADDING false charges to what actually happened.

I'm not even gonna get started on false child molestation charges...nearly indefensible.

[Edited 8/15/11 12:05pm]

spit spit spit

I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince.
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Reply #21 posted 08/16/11 7:28am

FuzzyWitch

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i never confess to anything - even if i am guilty... Oh no ... NOT ME smile

Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
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Reply #22 posted 08/16/11 10:08am

HotGritz

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SUPRMAN said:

HotGritz said:

Now see children are different. They don't stand a chance up against some intimidating, bad breath having, lying (your friend said you did it), threatening and menacing type of man or even woman. Kids will say whatever the adult wants them to say because they are fearful and don't have the maturity and life experience to deal with a con artist which is what the detective really is.

An adult, particulary one who is not an idiot and has been off his/her stoop or even watched a couple detective stories should know better. What kind of idiot can't keep their mouth shut until they get a lawyer? What kind of idiot would confess to something that would land him or her in prison for damn near the rest of their lives?

Like I said, dumb people will fall for this game each and every time.

Now if you ARE guilty of SOMETHING and you confess to ANYTHING, well....can't say I feel sorry for ya. shrug Somebody gotta do the time and it might as well be the dumb ass.

During the test, which was filmed by a hidden camera, ten participants actually did cheat. Bafflingly, though, another eight falsely confessed when accused by the experimenter, despite participants having been told cheats would be fined €50 ($72).

The number of innocent confessors jumps when various interrogation techniques are added to the mix. Several experiments, for example, have focused on the use of false evidence, as when police pretend they have proof of a person’s guilt in order to encourage him to confess. This is usually permitted in the United States, though banned in Britain.

These tests were run on university students. Not typically the shallow end of the pool.

But still confesses to acts they did not do.

Interrogation is not an intelligence test.

The article also noted, "It seems hard to imagine that anyone of sound mind would take the blame for something he did not do. But several researchers have found it surprisingly easy to make people fess up to invented misdemeanours."

Maybe it should be. Intelligence surely plays some role in this. Perhaps life experience as well. How else can you explain an innocent person confessing to crime they didn't committ versus a guilty person who repeatedly claims their innocence? Think of that Vandersloot (sp) dude who killed Natalie Holloway or even OJ Simpson....these guys were interrogated, probably numerous times, and they never broke. Vandersloot only confesses after he's pinned in the murder of another girl and OJ, well he came out with that stupid book. I'm just saying a smart person and a not so smart person may react to the test differently. It matters not that these were university students. Dumb kids go to college too. lol

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #23 posted 08/16/11 11:12am

BobGeorge909

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HotGritz said:

SUPRMAN said:

During the test, which was filmed by a hidden camera, ten participants actually did cheat. Bafflingly, though, another eight falsely confessed when accused by the experimenter, despite participants having been told cheats would be fined €50 ($72).

The number of innocent confessors jumps when various interrogation techniques are added to the mix. Several experiments, for example, have focused on the use of false evidence, as when police pretend they have proof of a person’s guilt in order to encourage him to confess. This is usually permitted in the United States, though banned in Britain.

These tests were run on university students. Not typically the shallow end of the pool.

But still confesses to acts they did not do.

Interrogation is not an intelligence test.

The article also noted, "It seems hard to imagine that anyone of sound mind would take the blame for something he did not do. But several researchers have found it surprisingly easy to make people fess up to invented misdemeanours."

Maybe it should be. Intelligence surely plays some role in this. Perhaps life experience as well. How else can you explain an innocent person confessing to crime they didn't committ versus a guilty person who repeatedly claims their innocence? Think of that Vandersloot (sp) dude who killed Natalie Holloway or even OJ Simpson....these guys were interrogated, probably numerous times, and they never broke. Vandersloot only confesses after he's pinned in the murder of another girl and OJ, well he came out with that stupid book. I'm just saying a smart person and a not so smart person may react to the test differently. It matters not that these were university students. Dumb kids go to college too. lol

nevermind...

[Edited 8/16/11 11:18am]

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