http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/06/28/mcnaught.gays.workplace/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

I posted it in this forum deliberately, because this thread is not about the politics of being

queer (gay, bi, transgender), but about a very personal and private issue.

How much of your private life would you like to share with your work place.

I think coming out is a brave thing to do, but I can't fathom how anybody feels

safe doing it considering how few gay and lesbian people make it up

the social latter into upper management. I've seen plenty of middle managers

but can't think of any upper managers from my own experience. I know they

must exist, but I've never seen them.

Do you think the queer community should come out at work?

I can't answer for everyone but I think it's a good idea. I'm not talking about an announcement but not editing your life.

I don't know about you, but I'd hate for an assumption to be made of me (ie that I was straight only because I don't say otherwise)

NO!!! Because it's not relevant. No reason for it. Go to work, do your job, leave personal life at home!

things will never change if ppl r scared to b who they are..... the more it happens the more acceptable it will b...

that's just my opinion......

i grew up an an era when it was frowned upon and when (mostly young men) would brag about 'gay bashing'........ it used to make me feel sick!!!

now things are much better and i think there is still room for improvement...

but noting will happen if ppl r 2 scared or feel it is wrong to b who they r...

how do they know 4 sure that they will b disadvantaged..... if they dont even try

mydrawers said:

physco185 said:

things will never change if ppl r scared to b who they are..... the more it happens the more acceptable it will b...

that's just my opinion......

i grew up an an era when it was frowned upon and when (mostly young men) would brag about 'gay bashing'........ it used to make me feel sick!!!

now things are much better and i think there is still room for improvement...

but noting will happen if ppl r 2 scared or feel it is wrong to b who they r...

how do they know 4 sure that they will b disadvantaged..... if they dont even try

Totally agree: if it comes up, there is nothing wrong with answering about one's sexuality truthfully. But to make some sort of big announcement about it is a turn off to people. Many times they just don't care and just don't want to know.

I really don't think there should be a "should" when it comes to how much people want to reveal of themselves. I'd think it would be nice if queers could come out in their workplace without worrying if it would hurt their career or options.

I strongly disagree about that queers should keep quiet, and I frankly don't see how their sexuality equals talk about their sex-lives. Having a male co-worker talk about his lover or partner in terms of "him" or "his", or for a female co-worker talk about her options in regards to having kids as a lesbian (which comes up quite often when you're over 30) .. that is neither graphic nor in any way related to sex.

I mean, if you get pictures of anal sex in your head just because you co-worker who happens to be gay tells you his partner's name or gender .. then it's really your problem to deal with, not the gay guy. So why shouldn't he or she be able to talk about their normal everyday lives?

As a straight man I found it quite enlightning to try and count every time I say "her", "she" or "Julie" about my wife in a conversation and thereby "admitting" I'm straight. I'd hate for anyone to have to censor themselves in that way.

Ultimatively, people should decide for themselves.

[Edited 6/29/11 4:45am]

mydrawers said:

physco185 said:

things will never change if ppl r scared to b who they are..... the more it happens the more acceptable it will b...

that's just my opinion......

i grew up an an era when it was frowned upon and when (mostly young men) would brag about 'gay bashing'........ it used to make me feel sick!!!

now things are much better and i think there is still room for improvement...

but noting will happen if ppl r 2 scared or feel it is wrong to b who they r...

how do they know 4 sure that they will b disadvantaged..... if they dont even try

Totally agree: if it comes up, there is nothing wrong with answering about one's sexuality truthfully. But to make some sort of big announcement about it is a turn off to people. Many times they just don't care and just don't want to know.

This isn't about making a grand announcement. This is about being who you are in your place of work.

When someone asks you what you did for the weekend, you might say "My wife and I went out for a nice meal, what did you do?" And they can reply "my partner and I saw a movie". It's as simple as that. It's not talking about your sex life. It's simply being you and not editing out who you are.

I can understand why anyone wouldn't come out in most workplaces in america. I totally get why they may fear being passed up for promotion or otherwise being treated differently. You can still be fired for being gay in the US in some states as well.

On the other hand, I work with plenty of out queer folks. As far as I can tell, they're all happy and I haven't seen any overt detriment.

I can only say, I have done the "not being too personal" thing with people at work. Kept work strictly work and my personal life out of it - didn't make personal connections, etc. My career has gone far better when I've actually done so. Making friends, asking about people's lives outside of work, all of that has helped me open new doors at work, not hindered me. People want to care about the other folks they work with and if you don't share who you are, that isn't nearly as possible. And it's not about talking about your sex life. As I said before. It's simply being the genuine person you are.

no, imo they should not. it is not relevant to doing their job. and, from what i know of most companies' employee handbooks, specifically the sexual harassment section, initiating a conversation with a co-worker along the lines of

'say, i want you to know that i prefer having sex with people of my own gender'

could be construed as inappropriate, borderline sexual harassment in a workplace environment. just my 2c

XxAxX said:

no, imo they should not. it is not relevant to doing their job. and, from what i know of most companies' employee handbooks, specifically the sexual harassment section, initiating a conversation with a co-worker along the lines of

'say, i want you to know that i prefer having sex with people of my own gender'

could be construed as inappropriate, borderline sexual harassment in a workplace environment. just my 2c

I dont think thats what this is all about really... Like Carrie said, they should be able to talk freely about their lives without judgement or harrasment... Most gay folk I know never say anything like that... We should all be able to compare stories and share experiences with one another the same as I do with my straight co-workers...

Can you imagine a workplace where you’re afraid to mention your spouse? Especially if you have children together?

How do you go about life and NOT talk about your partner and family, the people who are most important to you?

I'm out to the extent it has a substantive meaning to particular roles and relationships in my life, if that makes sense.

Faced with a particular instance, I won't lie about who I am anymore (unless being forthright is critically unsafe for me or my family), but there was no need, for example, to volunteer information to colleagues at the library where I once worked. I wasn't partnered to a male such that mundane information about how I spent my weekend would have betrayed that relationship. And my sexuality otherwise simply would have been a non sequitur in that context... and even fairly awkward, given my particular lifestyle. On the other hand, simply being known as "other than hetero" in the faith-based vocational environment where I currently find myself, even as I have the "standard" wife and kid, is almost a prophetic statement: The question of sexuality looms heavily in religious communities right now, and my being out says to detractors, supporters and those quietly wrestling with the issue that it is possible to honor various parts of who I am and what I believe I am called to do in faith. In fact, they greatly overlap, in my sensibilities. That sort of outward statement is not without risk from all sides, but I've seen that it has been valuable.

[Edited 6/29/11 9:35am]

Cravens said:

I really don't think there should be a "should" when it comes to how much people want to reveal of themselves. I'd think it would be nice if queers could come out in their workplace without worrying if it would hurt their career or options.

I strongly disagree about that queers should keep quiet, and I frankly don't see how their sexuality equals talk about their sex-lives. Having a male co-worker talk about his lover or partner in terms of "him" or "his", or for a female co-worker talk about her options in regards to having kids as a lesbian (which comes up quite often when you're over 30) .. that is neither graphic nor in any way related to sex.

I mean, if you get pictures of anal sex in your head just because you co-worker who happens to be gay tells you his partner's name or gender .. then it's really your problem to deal with, not the gay guy. So why shouldn't he or she be able to talk about their normal everyday lives?

As a straight man I found it quite enlightning to try and count every time I say "her", "she" or "Julie" about my wife in a conversation and thereby "admitting" I'm straight. I'd hate for anyone to have to censor themselves in that way.

Ultimatively, people should decide for themselves.

[Edited 6/29/11 4:45am]

Exactly!!!!!!!

I have a married Bank Branch manager and it works in his favor. He is also head of our Diversity group. It's awesome...him being open allowed me to be able to have my partner on my health insurance even though we cannot get married (he now doesnt need it because he is Native American and gets free insurance).

I am open at my job too and I feel more proud of who I am because I have strong support. I think it is a great idea. You would not have anyone talking about you behind your back either.

[Edited 6/29/11 8:13am]

Basically, I don't think that mixing sex + work is a good idea

a gay worker confessing to his male co-workers that he's gay would be as harmful/problematic as a straight female worker confessing to his male co-workers that she loves to suck cock and swallow...

sex + work = NO

[Edited 6/29/11 8:16am]

paisleypark4 said:

I have a married Bank Branch manager and it works in his favor. He is also head of our Diversity group. It's awesome...him being open allowed me to be able to have my partner on my health insurance even though we cannot get married (he now doesnt need it because he is Native American and gets free insurance).

I am open at my job too and I feel more proud of who I am because I have strong support. I think it is a great idea. You would not have anyone talking about you behind your back either.

[Edited 6/29/11 8:13am]

Is your manager married to a man? ...In Minnesota?

JoeTyler said:

Basically, I don't think that mixing sex + work is a good idea

a gay worker confessing to his male co-workers that he's gay would be as harmful/problematic as a straight female worker confessing to his male co-workers that she loves to suck cock and swallow...

sex + work = NO

[Edited 6/29/11 8:16am]

Um, no.

Saying “I’m gay” is the same as saying “I’m straight”. You may love to suck cock or not in either scenario but it is not being said and neither is it an overtly sexual statement.

CarrieMpls said:

JoeTyler said:

Basically, I don't think that mixing sex + work is a good idea

a gay worker confessing to his male co-workers that he's gay would be as harmful/problematic as a straight female worker confessing to his male co-workers that she loves to suck cock and swallow...

sex + work = NO

[Edited 6/29/11 8:16am]

Um, no.

Saying “I’m gay” is the same as saying “I’m straight”. You may love to suck cock or not in either scenario but it is not being said and neither is it an overtly sexual statement.

I disagree. A gay worker saying to other male co-worker "I'm gay" means that there could be sex. It IS a case of mixing sex + work, which, I've said, it's a bad idea...

and as other orgers have said, it's not relevant to doing their jobs...

AND, let's not forget how fuckin' stupid are the 90% of the straight males workers when it comes to work with a gay guy. Homophobia still exists, people...

so, NO, the queer comunity should not come out at work...it's personal stuff, and you shouldn't mix personal stuff with your co-workers...

[Edited 6/29/11 8:34am]

JoeTyler said:

CarrieMpls said:

Um, no.

Saying “I’m gay” is the same as saying “I’m straight”. You may love to suck cock or not in either scenario but it is not being said and neither is it an overtly sexual statement.

I disagree. A gay worker saying to other male co-worker "I'm gay" means that there could be sex. It IS a case of mixing sex + work, which, I've said, it's a bad idea...

and as other orgers have said, it's not relevant to doing their jobs...

[Edited 6/29/11 8:31am]

That's saying that as a woman, I'm not allowed to tell other men at work I'm straight. Because that would mean there could be sex.

That's BS, plain and simple.

Why would you assume that because someone shares their orientation with you that means they are talking about sex, or somehow implying sex with you?

For me personally, I haven't come out at work, since my work environment is not that diverse. Unfortunately, I don't have much in common with the folks I work with, so I'll just leave it at that. I've been thinking of transferring to a different section though.

JoeTyler said:

so, NO, the queer comunity should not come out at work...it's personal stuff, and you shouldn't mix personal stuff with your co-workers...

[Edited 6/29/11 8:34am]

If that's the case, then I would say straight people should not mention their boyfriends or girlfriends, wives or husbands. Or other friends for that matter. No personal phone calls or emails that could possibly be overheard or seen.

No talking about tv shows either - I don't want to know you watched ESPN, while I watched a Rupaul's drag race marathon on Logo all weekend.

No talking about where you ate or which bar you visited either.

Strictly work talk.

CarrieMpls said:

JoeTyler said:

I disagree. A gay worker saying to other male co-worker "I'm gay" means that there could be sex. It IS a case of mixing sex + work, which, I've said, it's a bad idea...

and as other orgers have said, it's not relevant to doing their jobs...

[Edited 6/29/11 8:31am]

That's saying that as a woman, I'm not allowed to tell other men at work I'm straight. Because that would mean there could be sex.

That's BS, plain and simple.

Why would you assume that because someone shares their orientation with you that means they are talking about sex, or somehow implying sex with you?

I edited my previous message

more or less I agree with you, but there's a difference. Western society thinks that a male worker can work with a female co-worker because they'll be able to control the sexual urge (or not..., lol) and, to this day, straight sexual relationships at work are mostly kept in secret. But western society still thinks that a gay worker cannot resist the sexual urge. The eternal myth of the "gay promiscuity". Yes, that's homophobia and yes, IT IS bullshit, as you've said, but hey, that's the society we live in...

CarrieMpls said:

JoeTyler said:

so, NO, the queer comunity should not come out at work...it's personal stuff, and you shouldn't mix personal stuff with your co-workers...

[Edited 6/29/11 8:34am]

If that's the case, then I would say straight people should not mention their boyfriends or girlfriends, wives or husbands. Or other friends for that matter. No personal phone calls or emails that could possibly be overheard or seen.

No talking about tv shows either - I don't want to know you watched ESPN, while I watched a Rupaul's drag race marathon on Logo all weekend.

No talking about where you ate or which bar you visited either.

Strictly work talk.

that's slighty off-topic, but hey, that's a good idea. Personal stuff + work : NO

it will save you a lot of trouble.

Saying "I'm gay" is not that personal. People bring their personal lives into work all the time: putting up pictures of your family, wearing a class ring, displaying memorabilia that's important to you. And in this day and age of low-walled cubes, you end up knowing far more about your coworkers than you ever wanted to anyway.

Unless you work for a company that discriminates, there's absolutely no reason a queer person couldn't discuss his/her life to the same (professional) level that any other person does.

JoeTyler said:

CarrieMpls said:

If that's the case, then I would say straight people should not mention their boyfriends or girlfriends, wives or husbands. Or other friends for that matter. No personal phone calls or emails that could possibly be overheard or seen.

No talking about tv shows either - I don't want to know you watched ESPN, while I watched a Rupaul's drag race marathon on Logo all weekend.

No talking about where you ate or which bar you visited either.

Strictly work talk.

that's slighty off-topic, but hey, that's a good idea. Personal stuff + work : NO

it will save you a lot of trouble.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. The more of a relationship you build with the people you work with, the better you tend to work together which is better for everyone (and the better for your own career development).

The article talks about how much happier out gays are at work since they are no longer hiding themselves.

CarrieMpls said:

JoeTyler said:

that's slighty off-topic, but hey, that's a good idea. Personal stuff + work : NO

it will save you a lot of trouble.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. The more of a relationship you build with the people you work with, the better you tend to work together which is better for everyone (and the better for your own career development).

The article talks about how much happier out gays are at work since they are no longer hiding themselves.

that's completely legitimate. But I still don't understand why anyone (gay, straight, bi, sado or whatever) should be happier after confessing his/her sexual orientation

perhaps it's just me...

personally, when someone at work asks me about deep personal stuff (mother, father, family, sex, politics, religion, etc.) I just give a polite evasive answer. They don't need to know, I don't need to tell it...

Lammastide said:

paisleypark4 said:

I have a married Bank Branch manager and it works in his favor. He is also head of our Diversity group. It's awesome...him being open allowed me to be able to have my partner on my health insurance even though we cannot get married (he now doesnt need it because he is Native American and gets free insurance).

I am open at my job too and I feel more proud of who I am because I have strong support. I think it is a great idea. You would not have anyone talking about you behind your back either.

[Edited 6/29/11 8:13am]

Is your manager married to a man? ...In Minnesota?

He is married in another state, but that doesnt make him any less married in Minnesota because of it.

carrie said:

EXACTLY. I tell people I hang out with my partner, and they think nothing of it. I dont know where anyone assumes that all of a sudden gay people are going to automatically just start yapping off at the mouth about sex. Hello!?!?

Paisleypark4 said:

He is married in another state, but that doesnt make him any less married in Minnesota because of it.

Ahhh. OK. I follow.