South California the 51st State, Can It Happen?

A Riverside County Supervisor has started a huge debate to see if Southern California should become the 51^st State of the Union.

Under the proposal, Riverside, Imperial, San Diego, Orange, San Bernardino, Kings, Kern, Fresno, Tulare, Inyo, Madera, Mariposa and Mono counties would be asked to consider forming a 51st state, the State of South California. Boards of supervisors and city councils within those counties would be invited to meet and discuss the possible of secession from the State of California.

[edited for compliance]

Among the reasons Stone is pushing for this separation are: California’s taxes are among the highest in the nation yet the deteriorating services slip year after year while state officials prop up disastrous budget policies by draining resources needed to help local residents.

Political infighting has paralyzed California for more than decade, creating a state that is too large to govern. And a huge portion of the state’s residents are on some form of public assistance and California has about 30 percent of the nation’s welfare load yet only 12 percent of the population.

The U.S. Constitution say that no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

full story here: http://tribwekchron.com/2...it-happen/

Well, that's a horrible idea. I don't see this happening anytime soon.

Efan said:

Well, that's a horrible idea. I don't see this happening anytime soon.

...I think we on Long Island have a better shot at seceding from New York.

It ain't happening. I guess SD is needed for border control and those offshore oil rigs.

I've been saying this needs to happen for a decade. Quite loudly, actually. We're already two completely different states in every way other than legal. However, they gotta take those four southern coastal counties, too (but we keep Monterey County). However, even though I will support this with as many voting opportunities as I am given (if it ever comes to that), its about as likely to happen as everyone getting along at the Org for more than .6 seconds. Which is to say, never.

Cerebus said:

I've been saying this needs to happen for a decade. Quite loudly, actually. We're already two completely different states in every way other than legal. However, they gotta take those four southern coastal counties, too (but we keep Monterey County). However, even though I will support this with as many voting opportunities as I am given (if it ever comes to that), its about as likely to happen as everyone getting along at the Org for more than .6 seconds. Which is to say, never.

To be honest with you, New York State is very much like that.

You have new York City consisting of the 5 boroughs (Brooklyn, Bronx, Manhattan, Queens & Staten Island). Everything North of the Bronx (OK, maybe North of White Plains) is a totally different world. Then to the East you have (past Queens) the rest of Long Island which is more Mayberry than Manhattan (well...less so than a decade or two ago...but still!).

So technically we should be THREE States; North New York, South New York, and Long Island.

L.I. has actually seen numerous proposals to secede as from N.Y. but it's never really taken off. Now that we're populated almost to the point of sinking, another round of this might take off.

PurpleJedi said:

Cerebus said:

I've been saying this needs to happen for a decade. Quite loudly, actually. We're already two completely different states in every way other than legal. However, they gotta take those four southern coastal counties, too (but we keep Monterey County). However, even though I will support this with as many voting opportunities as I am given (if it ever comes to that), its about as likely to happen as everyone getting along at the Org for more than .6 seconds. Which is to say, never.

To be honest with you, New York State is very much like that.

You have new York City consisting of the 5 boroughs (Brooklyn, Bronx, Manhattan, Queens & Staten Island). Everything North of the Bronx (OK, maybe North of White Plains) is a totally different world. Then to the East you have (past Queens) the rest of Long Island which is more Mayberry than Manhattan (well...less so than a decade or two ago...but still!).

So technically we should be THREE States; North New York, South New York, and Long Island.

L.I. has actually seen numerous proposals to secede as from N.Y. but it's never really taken off. Now that we're populated almost to the point of sinking, another round of this might take off.

How would changes like that affect your area socially, politically, and economically, especially in regards to taxes? In California it actually makes a good deal of sense. One is liberal, one more conservative (even though the entire state is still pretty liberal over all). Both have urban, rural and wilderness areas, but they're totally different from one another. Both would have their own coastlines to protect and maintain, which is important because we use them in different ways (warmer water, colder water). Both have their own economic infrastructure and businesses for which they are known. Both have large ports. Lastly, we have large enough populations in both areas to create two solid tax bases. How those changes would affect government and education are the two big questions for me. But I'd be damn willing to try! And I'd be more than happy for us to tax the hell out of SoCal for taking our water.

The only way that'll happen is if a pig shitted on a toilet.

Timmy84 said:

The only way that'll happen is if a pig shitted on a toilet.

I've seen a pig shit in a litter box. That's gettin' pretty close!

Cerebus said:

Timmy84 said:

The only way that'll happen is if a pig shitted on a toilet.

I've seen a pig shit in a litter box. That's gettin' pretty close!

That don't count. The pig's gotta be INSIDE a house on a toilet.

To be honest both New York and California seem to have two sides to each state so I'm not surprised either of these states looking to secede from each other. Technically they're separate anyways.

Cerebus said:

I've been saying this needs to happen for a decade. Quite loudly, actually. We're already two completely different states in every way other than legal. However, they gotta take those four southern coastal counties, too (but we keep Monterey County). However, even though I will support this with as many voting opportunities as I am given (if it ever comes to that), its about as likely to happen as everyone getting along at the Org for more than .6 seconds. Which is to say, never.

What needs to happen is the repeal of Proposition 13 which hamstrings they way taxes are levied, collected, and distributed in the state. Mandating putting every potential tax increase up for a referendum is a massive receipe for disaster. The state seriously needs revenue, yet the right wing tea party zealots who live in Orange County lobby heavily against any tax increase on themselves, yet they expect their public services to be like those British royalty receives. Instead of taxes being distributed proprotionally according to income, you get a hodgepodge of sales, municipal, and property taxes unevenly distributed where the richer districts pay hardly anything yet get huge services while more impoverished areas of the state have incredibly high taxes and can't attract any industry because of that.

Timmy84 said:

Cerebus said:

I've seen a pig shit in a litter box. That's gettin' pretty close!

That don't count. The pig's gotta be INSIDE a house on a toilet.

It was inside! I'm tellin' ya - close!

Cerebus said:

Timmy84 said:

That don't count. The pig's gotta be INSIDE a house on a toilet.

It was inside! I'm tellin' ya - close!

Whatever you say.

Timmy84 said:

To be honest both New York and California seem to have two sides to each state so I'm not surprised either of these states looking to secede from each other. Technically they're separate anyways.

Illinois is the same way. You have the city of Chicago, the ring of suburbs around it in Cook County, DuPage County which is right wing tea party heaven, and the rest of the state. In fact, everybody in the city of Chicago refers to my hometown of Rockford, IL as part of downstate even though it actually sits about 75 miles northwest of the city.

728huey said:

Timmy84 said:

To be honest both New York and California seem to have two sides to each state so I'm not surprised either of these states looking to secede from each other. Technically they're separate anyways.

Illinois is the same way. You have the city of Chicago, the ring of suburbs around it in Cook County, DuPage County which is right wing tea party heaven, and the rest of the state. In fact, everybody in the city of Chicago refers to my hometown of Rockford, IL as part of downstate even though it actually sits about 75 miles northwest of the city.

I can imagine lol

I bet if some folks in SoCal don't get their way as far as a "secession", bet they move out of state?

Cerebus said:

PurpleJedi said:

To be honest with you, New York State is very much like that.

You have new York City consisting of the 5 boroughs (Brooklyn, Bronx, Manhattan, Queens & Staten Island). Everything North of the Bronx (OK, maybe North of White Plains) is a totally different world. Then to the East you have (past Queens) the rest of Long Island which is more Mayberry than Manhattan (well...less so than a decade or two ago...but still!).

So technically we should be THREE States; North New York, South New York, and Long Island.

L.I. has actually seen numerous proposals to secede as from N.Y. but it's never really taken off. Now that we're populated almost to the point of sinking, another round of this might take off.

How would changes like that affect your area socially, politically, and economically, especially in regards to taxes? In California it actually makes a good deal of sense. One is liberal, one more conservative (even though the entire state is still pretty liberal over all). Both have urban, rural and wilderness areas, but they're totally different from one another. Both would have their own coastlines to protect and maintain, which is important because we use them in different ways (warmer water, colder water). Both have their own economic infrastructure and businesses for which they are known. Both have large ports. Lastly, we have large enough populations in both areas to create two solid tax bases. How those changes would affect government and education are the two big questions for me. But I'd be damn willing to try! And I'd be more than happy for us to tax the hell out of SoCal for taking our water.

That was my first thought, give up half our water supply, and claim all the desert areas, brilliant.

Well, the Republic of South Sudan just succeeded in becoming independent from the Sudan; if they can do it after decades of civil war it should be much easier for California!

.

[Edited 7/13/11 18:16pm]

the only way South California is going to secede is if the Mexicans reclaim it. wait...

I can't see it, three states separating into two was enough:

• The Carolinas (divided into North and South)
• Virginia (divided into VIRGINIA and "West" Virginia)
• Dakota (divided into North and South)

Plus it kinda looks silly picking selected counties, if you're gonna include southern California, include all of it.

This is gonna bomb.

this isn't new...

northern cal. is liberal

down here (so. cal.) conservative.

it shows in the medical coverage

and other actions.

actualy

i thought the devidin line

would have been l.a. down...

and northern cal. would be the 51st

KingBAD said:

this isn't new...

northern cal. is liberal

down here (so. cal.) conservative.

it shows in the medical coverage

and other actions.

actualy

i thought the devidin line

would have been l.a. down...

and northern cal. would be the 51st

Exactly why they wouldn't succeed with this.

Timmy84 said:

I can't see it, three states separating into two was enough:

• The Carolinas (divided into North and South)
• Virginia (divided into VIRGINIA and "West" Virginia)
• Dakota (divided into North and South)

Plus it kinda looks silly picking selected counties, if you're gonna include southern California, include all of it.

This is gonna bomb.

Actually, North and South Dakota entered the USA as two separate states. Prior to statehood, it was the Dakota Territory; but there was never one state called "Dakota".

jone70 said:

Timmy84 said:

I can't see it, three states separating into two was enough:

• The Carolinas (divided into North and South)
• Virginia (divided into VIRGINIA and "West" Virginia)
• Dakota (divided into North and South)

Plus it kinda looks silly picking selected counties, if you're gonna include southern California, include all of it.

This is gonna bomb.

Actually, North and South Dakota entered the USA as two separate states. Prior to statehood, it was the Dakota Territory; but there was never one state called "Dakota".

Of course. My bad. Yeah it was separate. Ugh, I remember reading about it on Social Studies back in the day.

728huey said:

Cerebus said:

I've been saying this needs to happen for a decade. Quite loudly, actually. We're already two completely different states in every way other than legal. However, they gotta take those four southern coastal counties, too (but we keep Monterey County). However, even though I will support this with as many voting opportunities as I am given (if it ever comes to that), its about as likely to happen as everyone getting along at the Org for more than .6 seconds. Which is to say, never.

What needs to happen is the repeal of Proposition 13 which hamstrings they way taxes are levied, collected, and distributed in the state. Mandating putting every potential tax increase up for a referendum is a massive receipe for disaster. The state seriously needs revenue, yet the right wing tea party zealots who live in Orange County lobby heavily against any tax increase on themselves, yet they expect their public services to be like those British royalty receives. Instead of taxes being distributed proprotionally according to income, you get a hodgepodge of sales, municipal, and property taxes unevenly distributed where the richer districts pay hardly anything yet get huge services while more impoverished areas of the state have incredibly high taxes and can't attract any industry because of that.

All that and a whole bunch more. You will get ZERO argument from me regarding SERIOUS tax reform in California, or the U.S. Its all kind of backwards right now in a lot of ways and it needs to be fixed. Its the first thing that comes to my mind every time I read the Constitution. Paraphrasing, when your government is broken, you have the right to fix it. Yet, we don't. Why? Fear. Ignorance. Laziness. Lack of understanding the muddles and confusing process the politicians have created to protect themselves. Whatever, it bugs.

Cerebus said:

I've been saying this needs to happen for a decade. Quite loudly, actually. We're already two completely different states in every way other than legal. However, they gotta take those four southern coastal counties, too (but we keep Monterey County). However, even though I will support this with as many voting opportunities as I am given (if it ever comes to that), its about as likely to happen as everyone getting along at the Org for more than .6 seconds. Which is to say, never.

Monterey is Northern Cali.

This has come up at least three times before in my lifetime.

I'm not worried.

But if it ever happens I would likely move back north. That's going to be the more liberal state.

L.A. will get bigger as all those people want to work and hang out in California (If Northern Cali gets L.A. we'll just stay Cali and there would be Southern California while USC would be in California lol) rather than live in conservative SoCal.

Cerebus said:

PurpleJedi said:

To be honest with you, New York State is very much like that.

You have new York City consisting of the 5 boroughs (Brooklyn, Bronx, Manhattan, Queens & Staten Island). Everything North of the Bronx (OK, maybe North of White Plains) is a totally different world. Then to the East you have (past Queens) the rest of Long Island which is more Mayberry than Manhattan (well...less so than a decade or two ago...but still!).

So technically we should be THREE States; North New York, South New York, and Long Island.

L.I. has actually seen numerous proposals to secede as from N.Y. but it's never really taken off. Now that we're populated almost to the point of sinking, another round of this might take off.

How would changes like that affect your area socially, politically, and economically, especially in regards to taxes? In California it actually makes a good deal of sense. One is liberal, one more conservative (even though the entire state is still pretty liberal over all). Both have urban, rural and wilderness areas, but they're totally different from one another. Both would have their own coastlines to protect and maintain, which is important because we use them in different ways (warmer water, colder water). Both have their own economic infrastructure and businesses for which they are known. Both have large ports. Lastly, we have large enough populations in both areas to create two solid tax bases. How those changes would affect government and education are the two big questions for me. But I'd be damn willing to try! And I'd be more than happy for us to tax the hell out of SoCal for taking our water.

YUP!

PurpleJedi said:

Efan said:

PurpleJedi said:

South California the 51st State, Can It Happen?

The red part of that map is so depressing. If I had to live in that part anywhere outside of San Diego. You would have to put me on 24-hour suicide watch.

You'll have to explain why, for us East-coasters.