mynameisnotsusan said:

tony23k said:

It depends..

At my workplace everyone who is gay, is out.

Where my boyfriend works,it's more conservative.

None of his co-workers knows he's gay/out.

Even though here in California, an employer cannot discriminate against sexuality,the work enviorment does often times dictate what is exceptable and what isn't.

IMO,it's better to be out.

Example-

At a recent birthday party for my boyfriend 25-30 people there knew he was gay and that we were together.(everyone knew not to "blow his cover")

He invited one of his co-workers and for the better part of the evening things were really stifulled.

It was like walking on eggshells.

It wasn't until this friend left,that the party could really be a Party!

Damn, that sucks.

Tell me about it.

At one point,I asked my boyfriend why he had even invited him.

(This friend ,who's worked with him for several years knew it was his birthday.)

And he said he felt uncomfortable not inviting him.

imago said:

tony23k said:

It depends..

At my workplace everyone who is gay, is out.

Where my boyfriend works,it's more conservative.

None of his co-workers knows he's gay/out.

Even though here in California, an employer cannot discriminate against sexuality,the work enviorment does often times dictate what is exceptable and what isn't.

IMO,it's better to be out.

Example-

At a recent birthday party for my boyfriend 25-30 people there knew he was gay and that we were together.(everyone knew not to "blow his cover")

He invited one of his co-workers and for the better part of the evening things were really stifulled.

It was like walking on eggshells.

It wasn't until this friend left,that the party could really be a Party!

bingo.

It could mean the difference between retiring with a large pension, or waiting on the social security check every month. It's not as simple as just feeling better about yourself.

And you could have been on time everyday,never called in sick and volunteerded for everything.

It wouldn't matter, if you were all of sudden "out" to the wrong people.

imago said:

tony23k said:

It depends..

At my workplace everyone who is gay, is out.

Where my boyfriend works,it's more conservative.

None of his co-workers knows he's gay/out.

Even though here in California, an employer cannot discriminate against sexuality,the work enviorment does often times dictate what is exceptable and what isn't.

IMO,it's better to be out.

Example-

At a recent birthday party for my boyfriend 25-30 people there knew he was gay and that we were together.(everyone knew not to "blow his cover")

He invited one of his co-workers and for the better part of the evening things were really stifulled.

It was like walking on eggshells.

It wasn't until this friend left,that the party could really be a Party!

bingo.

It could mean the difference between retiring with a large pension, or waiting on the social security check every month. It's not as simple as just feeling better about yourself.

It's not as simple as anything because it's not a simple matter. But for some people it's not just about "feeling better about yourself" as if you were doing something commendable or praise-worthy by being out. For me, personally, it's about self-preservation and just plain not being an unhappy person.
Some people can dust it off their shoulder (or play like they can) but to be at a birthday party for my partner (or anything for that matter) and have to act like we don't share a life would be terribly depressing for me. I did it early on when I started dating. I found it hurtful (not placing blame on the guy I was dating, just that it had to be that way period) and it depressed and angered the shit out of me. I could never do it again.

johnart said:

imago said:

bingo.

It could mean the difference between retiring with a large pension, or waiting on the social security check every month. It's not as simple as just feeling better about yourself.

It's not as simple as anything because it's not a simple matter. But for some people it's not just about "feeling better about yourself" as if you were doing something commendable or praise-worthy by being out. For me, personally, it's about self-preservation and just plain not being an unhappy person.
Some people can dust it off their shoulder (or play like they can) but to be at a birthday party for my partner (or anything for that matter) and have to act like we don't share a life would be terribly depressing for me. I did it early on when I started dating. I found it hurtful (not placing blame on the guy I was dating, just that it had to be that way period) and it depressed and angered the shit out of me. I could never do it again.

Agree wholeheartedly.

johnart said:

imago said:

bingo.

It could mean the difference between retiring with a large pension, or waiting on the social security check every month. It's not as simple as just feeling better about yourself.

It's not as simple as anything because it's not a simple matter. But for some people it's not just about "feeling better about yourself" as if you were doing something commendable or praise-worthy by being out. For me, personally, it's about self-preservation and just plain not being an unhappy person.
Some people can dust it off their shoulder (or play like they can) but to be at a birthday party for my partner (or anything for that matter) and have to act like we don't share a life would be terribly depressing for me. I did it early on when I started dating. I found it hurtful (not placing blame on the guy I was dating, just that it had to be that way period) and it depressed and angered the shit out of me. I could never do it again.

I agree, at the end of your career, you may be financially secure, but you've betrayed yourself for most of the day for your entire life. Is the trade-off worth it? I can't say.

As a general rule, YES.

johnart said:

imago said:

bingo.

It could mean the difference between retiring with a large pension, or waiting on the social security check every month. It's not as simple as just feeling better about yourself.

It's not as simple as anything because it's not a simple matter. But for some people it's not just about "feeling better about yourself" as if you were doing something commendable or praise-worthy by being out. For me, personally, it's about self-preservation and just plain not being an unhappy person.
Some people can dust it off their shoulder (or play like they can) but to be at a birthday party for my partner (or anything for that matter) and have to act like we don't share a life would be terribly depressing for me. I did it early on when I started dating. I found it hurtful (not placing blame on the guy I was dating, just that it had to be that way period) and it depressed and angered the shit out of me. I could never do it again.

hmmm.

I guess that's where I don't see why it would be depressing. The reason is that I have never had much interest in my coworkers personal lives. At times I even found it to be cringe-worthy when they shared their personal lives with me (like finding out some dude was cheating on his wife, or some of my coworkers were nudists, etc.).

The reason this makes me curious is that one of our professors is actually getting the boot because he apparently sent some very graphic pornographic emails to the dean and other high ranking officials from a school computer. They caught him on survelance camera.

Anyways, I was being briefed by the dean about an upcoming project, and she asked me if this guy was gay. I responded that I had no clue. She asked me if I had ever talked to him on a personal level.

I responded that, yes I did, but that it didn't go beyond pay and salary discussions and that at best it was cordial. She the asked me if he seemed self-destructive, etc. etc.

Of course, I had no clue at the time that he sent out these pornographic images, so I interpreted the messages as meddling in someone's personal life.

I learned later that she was curious because the images he sent out were of naked ladyboys and that he wrote a banner on the images that said, "This is the real reason why we come to Thailand"

But aaaaaaanyways, the dean also told me in a separate conversation that like so many of the foreign men here, that she thought that I was running away from something in the states. Now, I can interpret this any number of ways, but being that I have never....I mean NEVER EVER discussed my personal life with her or anyone (hell, they don't even know when I'm having a 'bad' day), I found the conversation intrusive.

She said that I seemed much happier these days than in the past to which I responded (HONESTLY) that it involved money. I'm financially more stable now.

I was just taken about by how unprofessional it all felt. At my corporate job, we would NEVER have discussions like that.

.

[Edited 7/6/11 10:23am]

sextonseven said:

johnart said:

It's not as simple as anything because it's not a simple matter. But for some people it's not just about "feeling better about yourself" as if you were doing something commendable or praise-worthy by being out. For me, personally, it's about self-preservation and just plain not being an unhappy person.
Some people can dust it off their shoulder (or play like they can) but to be at a birthday party for my partner (or anything for that matter) and have to act like we don't share a life would be terribly depressing for me. I did it early on when I started dating. I found it hurtful (not placing blame on the guy I was dating, just that it had to be that way period) and it depressed and angered the shit out of me. I could never do it again.

I agree, at the end of your career, you may be financially secure, but you've betrayed yourself for most of the day for your entire life. Is the trade-off worth it? I can't say.

Yes, it's worth it.

People who don't have to make those choices have the luxury of taking the opposite stance, but yes it's worth it.

I don't see it as betraying anything. Just ensuring your privacy. If people are uncomfortable because they can't seem to have a working relationship without finding out specifics of someone's personal life, then perhaps they're not being professional enough. I understand why some people think that close relationships open up avenues at work...but they're in positions to think that.

imago said:

sextonseven said:

I agree, at the end of your career, you may be financially secure, but you've betrayed yourself for most of the day for your entire life. Is the trade-off worth it? I can't say.

Yes, it's worth it.

People who don't have to make those choices have the luxury of taking the opposite stance, but yes it's worth it.

I don't see it as betraying anything. Just ensuring your privacy. If people are uncomfortable because they can't seem to have a working relationship without finding out specifics of someone's personal life, then perhaps they're not being professional enough. I understand why some people think that close relationships open up avenues at work...but they're in positions to think that.

You are always private concerning the workplace so I can see why you'd say that.

I can also see others choosing to leave their place of employment and taking a pay cut because they felt stifled.

johnart said:

Efan said:

Saying "I'm gay" is not that personal. People bring their personal lives into work all the time: putting up pictures of your family, wearing a class ring, displaying memorabilia that's important to you. And in this day and age of low-walled cubes, you end up knowing far more about your coworkers than you ever wanted to anyway.

Unless you work for a company that discriminates, there's absolutely no reason a queer person couldn't discuss his/her life to the same (professional) level that any other person does.

Thank you!
I'm so glad I found your post because I was just about to post similarly without reading the entire thread.

I'm sick of folk saying "not relevant" and equatiing being out to bringing your sex-life to work. Being out has nothing to do with discussing sex in the workplace.

Every time someone whips out a pic of their kid or says "oh I gotta get home cook dinner for my husband" they are bringing their personal life and being out about who they are at work. It only seems to count when you're gay and that's just plain bullshit.

[Edited 6/29/11 16:02pm]

This post is all that needs to be said on this issue.

imago said:

johnart said:

It's not as simple as anything because it's not a simple matter. But for some people it's not just about "feeling better about yourself" as if you were doing something commendable or praise-worthy by being out. For me, personally, it's about self-preservation and just plain not being an unhappy person.
Some people can dust it off their shoulder (or play like they can) but to be at a birthday party for my partner (or anything for that matter) and have to act like we don't share a life would be terribly depressing for me. I did it early on when I started dating. I found it hurtful (not placing blame on the guy I was dating, just that it had to be that way period) and it depressed and angered the shit out of me. I could never do it again.

hmmm.

I guess that's where I don't see why it would be depressing. The reason is that I have never had much interest in my coworkers personal lives. At times I even found it to be cringe-worthy when they shared their personal lives with me (like finding out some dude was cheating on his wife, or some of my coworkers were nudists, etc.).

The reason this makes me curious is that one of our professors is actually getting the boot because he apparently sent some very graphic pornographic emails to the dean and other high ranking officials from a school computer. They caught him on survelance camera.

Anyways, I was being briefed by the dean about an upcoming project, and she asked me if this guy was gay. I responded that I had no clue. She asked me if I had ever talked to him on a personal level.

I responded that, yes I did, but that it didn't go beyond pay and salary discussions and that at best it was cordial. She the asked me if he seemed self-destructive, etc. etc.

Of course, I had no clue at the time that he sent out these pornographic images, so I interpreted the messages as meddling in someone's personal life.

I learned later that she was curious because the images he sent out were of naked ladyboys and that he wrote a banner on the images that said, "This is the real reason why we come to Thailand"

But aaaaaaanyways, the dean also told me in a separate conversation that like so many of the foreign men here, that she thought that I was running away from something in the states. Now, I can interpret this any number of ways, but being that I have never....I mean NEVER EVER discussed my personal life with her or anyone (hell, they don't even know when I'm having a 'bad' day), I found the conversation intrusive.

She said that I seemed much happier these days than in the past to which I responded (HONESTLY) that it involved money. I'm financially more stable now.

I was just taken about by how unprofessional it all felt. At my corporate job, we would NEVER have discussions like that.

.

[Edited 7/6/11 10:23am]

I know you are not as dense as this, Dan.

Somewhere in that pretty pink Hello Kitty head of yours you damn well know that sending graphic images or sharing with co-workers that you are cheating on your wife have NOTHING (to the infinite degree) to do with being Out.

Come on nah!

johnart said:

imago said:

hmmm.

I guess that's where I don't see why it would be depressing. The reason is that I have never had much interest in my coworkers personal lives. At times I even found it to be cringe-worthy when they shared their personal lives with me (like finding out some dude was cheating on his wife, or some of my coworkers were nudists, etc.).

The reason this makes me curious is that one of our professors is actually getting the boot because he apparently sent some very graphic pornographic emails to the dean and other high ranking officials from a school computer. They caught him on survelance camera.

Anyways, I was being briefed by the dean about an upcoming project, and she asked me if this guy was gay. I responded that I had no clue. She asked me if I had ever talked to him on a personal level.

I responded that, yes I did, but that it didn't go beyond pay and salary discussions and that at best it was cordial. She the asked me if he seemed self-destructive, etc. etc.

Of course, I had no clue at the time that he sent out these pornographic images, so I interpreted the messages as meddling in someone's personal life.

I learned later that she was curious because the images he sent out were of naked ladyboys and that he wrote a banner on the images that said, "This is the real reason why we come to Thailand"

But aaaaaaanyways, the dean also told me in a separate conversation that like so many of the foreign men here, that she thought that I was running away from something in the states. Now, I can interpret this any number of ways, but being that I have never....I mean NEVER EVER discussed my personal life with her or anyone (hell, they don't even know when I'm having a 'bad' day), I found the conversation intrusive.

She said that I seemed much happier these days than in the past to which I responded (HONESTLY) that it involved money. I'm financially more stable now.

I was just taken about by how unprofessional it all felt. At my corporate job, we would NEVER have discussions like that.

.

[Edited 7/6/11 10:23am]

I know you are not as dense as this, Dan.

Somewhere in that pretty pink Hello Kitty head of yours you damn well know that sending graphic images or sharing with co-workers that you are cheating on your wife have NOTHING (to the infinite degree) to do with being Out.

Come on nah!

I think you misread my intentions.

I never said they were the same thing.

The point is that the line of questioning was quite personal, beyond just asking normal questions.

If I had received a graphic image from someone, I would question their scruples--I would not ask if they were gay. It's in inappropriate question to ask anyone. Nobody is obligated to have to say this.

And I think if someone choses not to share that part of the personal life with coworkers, I don't see where it would be all that damaging to them emotionally depending on the person. When I'm with a girl, I don't share that either. It's just nobody's business.

imago said:

johnart said:

I know you are not as dense as this, Dan.

Somewhere in that pretty pink Hello Kitty head of yours you damn well know that sending graphic images or sharing with co-workers that you are cheating on your wife have NOTHING (to the infinite degree) to do with being Out.

Come on nah!

I think you misread my intentions.

I never said they were the same thing.

The point is that the line of questioning was quite personal, beyond just asking normal questions.

If I had received a graphic image from someone, I would question their scruples--I would not ask if they were gay. It's in inappropriate question to ask anyone. Nobody is obligated to have to say this.

And I think if someone choses not to share that part of the personal life with coworkers, I don't see where it would be all that damaging to them emotionally depending on the person. When I'm with a girl, I don't share that either. It's just nobody's business.

If it works for you to hide/not discuss who you are then it works for you.

It doesn't for me or for a lot of other folk who like to be themselves freely at all times.

Any further debating of this will require a kiddie pool and some jello.

johnart said:

imago said:

I think you misread my intentions.

I never said they were the same thing.

The point is that the line of questioning was quite personal, beyond just asking normal questions.

If I had received a graphic image from someone, I would question their scruples--I would not ask if they were gay. It's in inappropriate question to ask anyone. Nobody is obligated to have to say this.

And I think if someone choses not to share that part of the personal life with coworkers, I don't see where it would be all that damaging to them emotionally depending on the person. When I'm with a girl, I don't share that either. It's just nobody's business.

If it works for you to hide/not discuss who you are then it works for you.

It doesn't for me or for a lot of other folk who like to be themselves freely at all times.

Any further debating of this will require a kiddie pool and some jello.

Just don't listen to him! He is not the expert

CarrieMpls said:

mydrawers said:

Totally agree: if it comes up, there is nothing wrong with answering about one's sexuality truthfully. But to make some sort of big announcement about it is a turn off to people. Many times they just don't care and just don't want to know.

This isn't about making a grand announcement. This is about being who you are in your place of work.

When someone asks you what you did for the weekend, you might say "My wife and I went out for a nice meal, what did you do?" And they can reply "my partner and I saw a movie". It's as simple as that. It's not talking about your sex life. It's simply being you and not editing out who you are.

THIS!^

tony23k said:

It depends..

At my workplace everyone who is gay, is out.

Where my boyfriend works,it's more conservative.

None of his co-workers knows he's gay/out.

Even though here in California, an employer cannot discriminate against sexuality,the work enviorment does often times dictate what is exceptable and what isn't.

IMO,it's better to be out.

Example-

At a recent birthday party for my boyfriend 25-30 people there knew he was gay and that we were together.(everyone knew not to "blow his cover")

He invited one of his co-workers and for the better part of the evening things were really stifulled.

It was like walking on eggshells.

It wasn't until this friend left,that the party could really be a Party!

This may sound too simplistic and easier said then done, but has he thought

about moving on to another job where he can be himself more?

It's gotta be tough for both of you...walking on eggshells is never fun.

obsessed said:

tony23k said:

It depends..

At my workplace everyone who is gay, is out.

Where my boyfriend works,it's more conservative.

None of his co-workers knows he's gay/out.

Even though here in California, an employer cannot discriminate against sexuality,the work enviorment does often times dictate what is exceptable and what isn't.

IMO,it's better to be out.

Example-

At a recent birthday party for my boyfriend 25-30 people there knew he was gay and that we were together.(everyone knew not to "blow his cover")

He invited one of his co-workers and for the better part of the evening things were really stifulled.

It was like walking on eggshells.

It wasn't until this friend left,that the party could really be a Party!

This may sound too simplistic and easier said then done, but has he thought

about moving on to another job where he can be himself more?

It's gotta be tough for both of you...walking on eggshells is never fun.

Yes and No..

He has some seniorty in a large company that's doing well right now.

Also,good benefits and a schedule that allows us to spend time together.

With the economy the way it is,it's best for him to stay and work things out in his best interest.

Although there was the one incident,most of our activities have little to do with his job.

tony23k said:

obsessed said:

This may sound too simplistic and easier said then done, but has he thought

about moving on to another job where he can be himself more?

It's gotta be tough for both of you...walking on eggshells is never fun.

Yes and No..

He has some seniorty in a large company that's doing well right now.

Also,good benefits and a schedule that allows us to spend time together.

With the economy the way it is,it's best for him to stay and work things out in his best interest.

Although there was the one incident,most of our activities have little to do with his job.

It sounds like the job must be important to him, and if he's ok dealing with his

sexual anonymity, that's all that matters.

obsessed said:

tony23k said:

Yes and No..

He has some seniorty in a large company that's doing well right now.

Also,good benefits and a schedule that allows us to spend time together.

With the economy the way it is,it's best for him to stay and work things out in his best interest.

Although there was the one incident,most of our activities have little to do with his job.

It sounds like the job must be important to him, and if he's ok dealing with his

sexual anonymity, that's all that matters.

The job is important, at the moment.

Working in a more diverse enviornment could be in his future.

In my experience,being free to be who you are at work makes the job less stressful.

tony23k said:

obsessed said:

It sounds like the job must be important to him, and if he's ok dealing with his

sexual anonymity, that's all that matters.

The job is important, at the moment.

Working in a more diverse enviornment could be in his future.

In my experience,being free to be who you are at work makes the job less stressful.

I would think so too

ive never told anybody i work with and i never will. im not ashamed one bit but they dont need to know. it could only make things worse, not better. granted, theres a possibility it wouldnt affect anything, but its not worth taking the chance.