carinemjj said:

Totally irrelevant in my opinion.

How with who you're sleeping at night has anything to do with the work you do in the day, you haven't been hired to do the boss, you've been hired to do the job.

So you don't talk at all to your co-workers? You'd never say something like "My kid's graduating tomorrow" (if you had/have one) or "I'm gonna be late picking up my kid from daycare. I'll get my husband to pick him up." Small things like that, nothing in detail about who you're sleeping with or what you do at night.

Silent about anything other than work. At all. Not a word. You go to work and are silent, simply performing your function...like the printer or the desk?

[Edited 6/29/11 17:41pm]

johnart said:

carinemjj said:

Totally irrelevant in my opinion.

How with who you're sleeping at night has anything to do with the work you do in the day, you haven't been hired to do the boss, you've been hired to do the job.

So you don't talk at all to your co-workers? You'd never say something like "My kid's graduating tomorrow" (if you had/have one) or "I'm gonna be late picking up my kid from daycare. I'll get my husband to pick him up." Small things like that, nothing in detail about who you're sleeping with or what you do at night.

Silent about anything other than work. At all. Not a word. You go to work and are silent, simply performing your function...like the printer or the desk?

[Edited 6/29/11 17:19pm]

Yep! Anyway my boss is a guy so he doesn't care ( and I like it that way) and my coworker is an old 70 year old totally frustrated woman and I'm not gonna share my life with her, so yeah, I go to work, to work

[Edited 6/29/11 17:39pm]

carinemjj said:

johnart said:

So you don't talk at all to your co-workers? You'd never say something like "My kid's graduating tomorrow" (if you had/have one) or "I'm gonna be late picking up my kid from daycare. I'll get my husband to pick him up." Small things like that, nothing in detail about who you're sleeping with or what you do at night.

Silent about anything other than work. At all. Not a word. You go to work and are silent, simply performing your function...like the printer or the desk?

[Edited 6/29/11 17:19pm]

Yep! Anyway my boss is a guy so he doesn't care ( and I like it that way) and my coworker is an old 70 year old totally frustrated woman and I'm not gonna share my life with her, so yeah, I go to work, to work

[Edited 6/29/11 17:39pm]

I edited, but before I could post the edit my dog stole a salad off the counter.

Anyway, this was my edit:

EDIT:

I'm not trying to challenge with my comment, just make a point that anything minute can constitute being "out". Like if I'm somewhere and a song comes on and someone says: "OOH I LOVE THIS SONG!" and I laugh and respond "I like it too, but my partner CAN"T STAND it".

That's not about bringing anything innapropriate to work. It's about being a regular person like everyone else you work with.

johnart said:

carinemjj said:

Yep! Anyway my boss is a guy so he doesn't care ( and I like it that way) and my coworker is an old 70 year old totally frustrated woman and I'm not gonna share my life with her, so yeah, I go to work, to work

[Edited 6/29/11 17:39pm]

I edited, but before I could post the edit my dog stole a salad off the counter.

Anyway, this was my edit:

EDIT:

I'm not trying to challenge with my comment, just make a point that anything minute can constitute being "out". Like if I'm somewhere and a song comes on and someone says: "OOH I LOVE THIS SONG!" and I laugh and respond "I like it too, but my partner CAN"T STAND it".

That's not about bringing anything innapropriate to work. It's about being a regular person like everyone else you work with.

Not trying to challenge either I know anything can come out of your mouth that would give a clue to your coworkers, but my point is that they don't HAVE to know what you do in your bed, as long as you do your job, the rest shouldn't matter, I know some don't think that, don't like gays would feel uncomfortable, well, that's their problem, maybe my 70 yo frustrated coworker wears leather and chains in the weekend.. I DON'T want to know that! LOL I just want her to do her job correctly and help the business works properly.

carinemjj said:

johnart said:

I edited, but before I could post the edit my dog stole a salad off the counter.

Anyway, this was my edit:

EDIT:

I'm not trying to challenge with my comment, just make a point that anything minute can constitute being "out". Like if I'm somewhere and a song comes on and someone says: "OOH I LOVE THIS SONG!" and I laugh and respond "I like it too, but my partner CAN"T STAND it".

That's not about bringing anything innapropriate to work. It's about being a regular person like everyone else you work with.

Not trying to challenge either I know anything can come out of your mouth that would give a clue to your coworkers, but my point is that they don't HAVE to know what you do in your bed, as long as you do your job, the rest shouldn't matter, I know some don't think that, don't like gays would feel uncomfortable, well, that's their problem, maybe my 70 yo frustrated coworker wears leather and chains in the weekend.. I DON'T want to know that! LOL I just want her to do her job correctly and help the business works properly.

But that's the issue. Folk always take it to the bedroom. Being out is not about sexual practices. Sexual discussions, of course, have no place in the workplace. Let's say the 70 year old does wear leather and chains in bed , it would be innappropriate for her to bring that up at work. If she said "I'm leaving a bit early today. It's my husband's birthday." wouldn't be.

johnart said:

carinemjj said:

Not trying to challenge either I know anything can come out of your mouth that would give a clue to your coworkers, but my point is that they don't HAVE to know what you do in your bed, as long as you do your job, the rest shouldn't matter, I know some don't think that, don't like gays would feel uncomfortable, well, that's their problem, maybe my 70 yo frustrated coworker wears leather and chains in the weekend.. I DON'T want to know that! LOL I just want her to do her job correctly and help the business works properly.

But that's the issue. Folk always take it to the bedroom. Being out is not about sexual practices. Sexual discussions, of course, have no place in the workplace. Let's say the 70 year old does wear leather and chains in bed , it would be innappropriate for her to bring that up at work. If she said "I'm leaving a bit early today. It's my husband's birthday." wouldn't be.

I guess I'm just lucky to work in a place where we don't discuss those things, or maybe it's just that I'm single and she's divorced, that might help keeping it about work haha!

carinemjj said:

johnart said:

But that's the issue. Folk always take it to the bedroom. Being out is not about sexual practices. Sexual discussions, of course, have no place in the workplace. Let's say the 70 year old does wear leather and chains in bed , it would be innappropriate for her to bring that up at work. If she said "I'm leaving a bit early today. It's my husband's birthday." wouldn't be.

I guess I'm just lucky to work in a place where we don't discuss those things, or maybe it's just that I'm single and she's divorced, that might help keeping it about work haha!

I'm sure it has, to some degree, to do with the fact that it's just you guys and you (from your description) don't seem that compatible. Other than working for myself, I've never worked somewhere where I didn't get along well with at least one person. Well enough to share lunchbreaks and have small non-work-related talk. I think most (or a lot) of enviroments are like this.

That said, someone at work has shared enough non-work-related info for you to know she is divorced and it doesn't sound like that has destroyed the balance or stability of your workplace.

johnart said:

That said, someone at work has shared enough non-work-related info for you to know she is divorced and it doesn't sound like that has destroyed the balance or stability of your workplace.

Yeah lol, and it is indeed enough:)

JoeTyler said:

CarrieMpls said:

That's saying that as a woman, I'm not allowed to tell other men at work I'm straight. Because that would mean there could be sex.

That's BS, plain and simple.

Why would you assume that because someone shares their orientation with you that means they are talking about sex, or somehow implying sex with you?

I edited my previous message

more or less I agree with you, but there's a difference. Western society thinks that a male worker can work with a female co-worker because they'll be able to control the sexual urge (or not..., lol) and, to this day, straight sexual relationships at work are mostly kept in secret. But western society still thinks that a gay worker cannot resist the sexual urge. The eternal myth of the "gay promiscuity". Yes, that's homophobia and yes, IT IS bullshit, as you've said, but hey, that's the society we live in...

Which you suggest we should continue to live in.

johnart said:

carinemjj said:

I guess I'm just lucky to work in a place where we don't discuss those things, or maybe it's just that I'm single and she's divorced, that might help keeping it about work haha!

I'm sure it has, to some degree, to do with the fact that it's just you guys and you (from your description) don't seem that compatible. Other than working for myself, I've never worked somewhere where I didn't get along well with at least one person. Well enough to share lunchbreaks and have small non-work-related talk. I think most (or a lot) of enviroments are like this.

That said, someone at work has shared enough non-work-related info for you to know she is divorced and it doesn't sound like that has destroyed the balance or stability of your workplace.

Exactly. I've been at my job for 12 years and I talk about my personal life with co-workers just like they talk about theirs. Personal life as in "I went out last weekend for the first time in a long time and it was enough to last me for another six months. I was so bored, I might as well have been in a straight club" and they just laugh because we do have a personal life that is similar to theirs but is also unique to our situation which has nothing to do with the bedroom. I can talk some trash and get them laughing without getting sexual and they respect me as a different type of individual they can not only work with, but laugh and joke with also. Just like I respect them for their own unique qualities that apply to them and them only.

Last year when I wasn't exactly myself, my boss asked me what was wrong and I told her that a no good freeloading man that lived in my apartment complex was showing up every night when I was making dinner as if it was owed to him. She gave me her opinion and advice as to what to do (drop his no good ass) just like she was talking to someone straight who had the same problem. When you work with someone for eight hours a day, they become family. When I moved into my apartment, my boss gave me some silverware, pots, towels, etc. just like she was shopping for her son. We talk like I would talk with my mother if I had been open with her. And no, I wouldn't go around telling my mother explicit details about my sex life just like a straight person wouldn't.

No one at my work knows that I like females too, though if I like a guy, they can tell from my face I'm up to something I don't think they are necessarily homophobic but I do notice them favouring heterosexism. I used to have a coworker that was married but is also bisexual and I think she may have been having an open relationship though I'm not sure, but I found myself saying a couple of flirty things one time to her though I never found out if this got around to anyone

It has never been an issue for me. If people ask, I answer, but I am not walking around volunteering information about my private life period, nevermind my sexuality. However, I don't mind discussing normal things with straight people and I find that often times they feel more comfortable around me knowing I am gay.

Lammastide said:

johnart said:

Thank you!
I'm so glad I found your post because I was just about to post similarly without reading the entire thread.

I'm sick of folk saying "not relevant" and equatiing being out to bringing your sex-life to work. Being out has nothing to do with discussing sex in the workplace.

Every time someone whips out a pic of their kid or says "oh I gotta get home cook dinner for my husband" they are bringing their personal life and being out about who they are at work. It only seems to count when you're gay and that's just plain bullshit.

[Edited 6/29/11 16:02pm]

I think there's a lot of sense in your argument. I wouldn't expect that everyone works in a place where they could be as casual about simply being gay as their counterparts can about simply being straight, but it would be nice if we pursued a broader environment in which they could.

My own situation in a way renders my coming out not such a casual lifestyle statement, though. Because I live pretty much a conventional hetero lifestyle, saying I'm gay is perhaps a more pointedly sexual proclamation. Folks' imaginations automatically and immediately go to my bed and speculation of who's in it with me, whether it's my wife and, if not, whether she's in on the action. I don't mind the questions in some contexts, because I know my situation is curious, and I'm trying to be a dignified example of others like me. But because I have a family who'd also be assessed in this all, I've "gone there" with a certain mind for discretion and safety, you'll understand.

I still navigate all these issues in my current vocational environment, of course. But sexuality is already on the table there -- and people have so suffered around sexuality, silence, self-hate and alienation in faith communities that I think my being more actively out is particularly important there.

I guess my point is that this whole matter is pretty relative. Broadly, I'd love to see LGBTQs be out and dare folk to have a problem with it. On a more individually paractical level, though, I can understand why there's variation in tactic.

[Edited 6/29/11 17:06pm]

Well, I only want to say that I agree with both of you. If I said before that it would be a bad idea, it's because I KNOW how insanely stupid many straight men are when it comes to sex, bisexuality, homosexuality, etc.

so, don't shot the messenger lol

I dont understand why people think, that gay men especially, can do nothing but have sex, talk about sex, and want to have sex with every man they see..

I so get what Johnart is saying and it really makes me sooooo sad that he needs to even TRY and explain himself and what he means by coming out at work People should be able to live their everyday lives and discuss it just like everyone else... For those of you who dont speak to others at work... That is just weird You spend more time in a day with those people than you do with ANYONE else, how can you not get to know them... How sad your day must go without talking to people or discussing things...

Soooooo happy that some people "get it" and so frustrated that some DON'T!!! Aaaaargh!!!

tinaz said:

I dont understand why people think, that gay men especially, can do nothing but have sex, talk about sex, and want to have sex with every man they see..

I so get what Johnart is saying and it really makes me sooooo sad that he needs to even TRY and explain himself and what he means by coming out at work People should be able to live their everyday lives and discuss it just like everyone else... For those of you who dont speak to others at work... That is just weird You spend more time in a day with those people than you do with ANYONE else, how can you not get to know them... How sad your day must go without talking to people or discussing things...

The all-caps "COME" in this makes me laugh. Because no, we probably shouldn't do that (unless it would really, really help our careers).

Efan said:

The all-caps "COME" in this makes me laugh. Because no, we probably shouldn't do that (unless it would really, really help our careers).

I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't say: "...in which case, YOU SHOULD DO THAT, BABY"

tinaz said:

I dont understand why people think, that gay men especially, can do nothing but have sex, talk about sex, and want to have sex with every man they see..

I so get what Johnart is saying and it really makes me sooooo sad that he needs to even TRY and explain himself and what he means by coming out at work People should be able to live their everyday lives and discuss it just like everyone else... For those of you who dont speak to others at work... That is just weird You spend more time in a day with those people than you do with ANYONE else, how can you not get to know them... How sad your day must go without talking to people or discussing things...

I totally agree. If all personal information should be removed from the workplace then that would mean no family photos or wedding rings (because in the 44 states that don't allow same-sex marriages, a wedding ring just screams that you like having missionary straight sex on a weekly basis). Even knowing if a woman has the title of "Mrs." would be considered too much information. Ridiculous.

paisleypark4 said:

tinaz said:

I dont understand why people think, that gay men especially, can do nothing but have sex, talk about sex, and want to have sex with every man they see..

I so get what Johnart is saying and it really makes me sooooo sad that he needs to even TRY and explain himself and what he means by coming out at work People should be able to live their everyday lives and discuss it just like everyone else... For those of you who dont speak to others at work... That is just weird You spend more time in a day with those people than you do with ANYONE else, how can you not get to know them... How sad your day must go without talking to people or discussing things...

Some people are very introverted and do not like to talk to people though gay or straight....some people do. In my opinion people who shy away from others at a public working place are not remembered very well. Who am I to judge though..it's just me.

Not remembered well and more likely to be passed up for a promotion. I'm happy my place of employement encourages social interaction among coworkers and has a Sr. V.P. who is out. And it's not a big deal to anyone.

sextonseven said:

tinaz said:

I dont understand why people think, that gay men especially, can do nothing but have sex, talk about sex, and want to have sex with every man they see..

I so get what Johnart is saying and it really makes me sooooo sad that he needs to even TRY and explain himself and what he means by coming out at work People should be able to live their everyday lives and discuss it just like everyone else... For those of you who dont speak to others at work... That is just weird You spend more time in a day with those people than you do with ANYONE else, how can you not get to know them... How sad your day must go without talking to people or discussing things...

I totally agree. If all personal information should be removed from the workplace then that would mean no family photos or wedding rings (because in the 44 states that don't allow same-sex marriages, a wedding ring just screams that you like having missionary straight sex on a weekly basis). Even knowing if a woman has the title of "Mrs." would be considered too much information. Ridiculous.

sextonseven said:

paisleypark4 said:

Some people are very introverted and do not like to talk to people though gay or straight....some people do. In my opinion people who shy away from others at a public working place are not remembered very well. Who am I to judge though..it's just me.

Not remembered well and more likely to be passed up for a promotion. I'm happy my place of employement encourages social interaction among coworkers and has a Sr. V.P. who is out. And it's not a big deal to anyone.

johnart said:

Efan said:

The all-caps "COME" in this makes me laugh. Because no, we probably shouldn't do that (unless it would really, really help our careers).

I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't say: "...in which case, YOU SHOULD DO THAT, BABY"

"No more will you cry...."

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

johnart said:

I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't say: "...in which case, YOU SHOULD DO THAT, BABY"

"No more will you cry...."

We should open up a company where all the employee reviews would be either "Oooh! Baby, you're so good!" (for "Exceeds expectations") or "You should do THAT, baby" (for "Needs improvement").

Efan said:

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

"No more will you cry...."

We should open up a company where all the employee reviews would be either "Oooh! Baby, you're so good!" (for "Exceeds expectations") or "You should do THAT, baby" (for "Needs improvement").

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Efan said:

We should open up a company where all the employee reviews would be either "Oooh! Baby, you're so good!" (for "Exceeds expectations") or "You should do THAT, baby" (for "Needs improvement").

Those are the kind of employee reviews they gave out at Prince International.

It depends..

At my workplace everyone who is gay, is out.

Where my boyfriend works,it's more conservative.

None of his co-workers knows he's gay/out.

Even though here in California, an employer cannot discriminate against sexuality,the work enviorment does often times dictate what is exceptable and what isn't.

IMO,it's better to be out.

Example-

At a recent birthday party for my boyfriend 25-30 people there knew he was gay and that we were together.(everyone knew not to "blow his cover")

He invited one of his co-workers and for the better part of the evening things were really stifulled.

It was like walking on eggshells.

It wasn't until this friend left,that the party could really be a Party!

tony23k said:

It depends..

At my workplace everyone who is gay, is out.

Where my boyfriend works,it's more conservative.

None of his co-workers knows he's gay/out.

Even though here in California, an employer cannot discriminate against sexuality,the work enviorment does often times dictate what is exceptable and what isn't.

IMO,it's better to be out.

Example-

At a recent birthday party for my boyfriend 25-30 people there knew he was gay and that we were together.(everyone knew not to "blow his cover")

He invited one of his co-workers and for the better part of the evening things were really stifulled.

It was like walking on eggshells.

It wasn't until this friend left,that the party could really be a Party!

Damn, that sucks.

tony23k said:

It depends..

At my workplace everyone who is gay, is out.

Where my boyfriend works,it's more conservative.

None of his co-workers knows he's gay/out.

Even though here in California, an employer cannot discriminate against sexuality,the work enviorment does often times dictate what is exceptable and what isn't.

IMO,it's better to be out.

Example-

At a recent birthday party for my boyfriend 25-30 people there knew he was gay and that we were together.(everyone knew not to "blow his cover")

He invited one of his co-workers and for the better part of the evening things were really stifulled.

It was like walking on eggshells.

It wasn't until this friend left,that the party could really be a Party!

bingo.

It could mean the difference between retiring with a large pension, or waiting on the social security check every month. It's not as simple as just feeling better about yourself.