paisleypark4 said:

Lammastide said:

He is married in another state, but that doesnt make him any less married in Minnesota because of it.

carrie said:

If that's the case, then I would say straight people should not mention their boyfriends or girlfriends, wives or husbands. Or other friends for that matter. No personal phone calls or emails that could possibly be overheard or seen.

No talking about tv shows either - I don't want to know you watched ESPN, while I watched a Rupaul's drag race marathon on Logo all weekend.

No talking about where you ate or which bar you visited either.

Strictly work talk.

EXACTLY. I tell people I hang out with my partner, and they think nothing of it. I dont know WHERE ANYONE assumes that all of a sudden gay people are going to automatically just start yapping off at the mouth about sex. Hello!?!?

naïveté...

where do you work? are you a cop? are you a cop working in Arizona, for example?

are you a teacher? are you a teacher working in a kindergarden in Mississippi, for example?

I wish the world was a better place, but it isn't

I have mixed feelings on this. I don't think you should hide who you are at work but your co-workers don't need to know the intimate details of your life.

It's also depending on what your position is. Some positions sort of force you to come out, especially when you are expected to attend certain functions where people usually have their spouses or other halfs accompany them. I recently spoke with a friend of mine who lost out on a major position with a company because he was not being honest with the CEO about who he was and about his life partner. After the CEO gave the position to another person, he told my friend that was the reason why he was rejected.

JoeTyler said:

tinaz said:

XxAxX said:

no, imo they should not. it is not relevant to doing their job. and, from what i know of most companies' employee handbooks, specifically the sexual harassment section, initiating a conversation with a co-worker along the lines of

'say, i want you to know that i prefer having sex with people of my own gender'

could be construed as inappropriate, borderline sexual harassment in a workplace environment. just my 2c

I dont think thats what this is all about really... Like Carrie said, they should be able to talk freely about their lives without judgement or harrasment... Most gay folk I know never say anything like that... We should all be able to compare stories and share experiences with one another the same as I do with my straight co-workers...

oh sure, i get that. i meant 'coming out' in the sense of someone making a grand announcement along the lines of 'say, i want you to know i am gay'

nothing wrong with showing co-workers family photos of one's partner, or such. i'm just not a fan of the notion that one should force an awareness of one's sexuality on people who don't really want to know

[Edited 6/29/11 10:33am]

Shorty said:

ok..forgive me for my ignorance but... "queer" is an acceptable term? seems offensive to me.

It's a reclaimed word. It's also more convenient than typing out every component in what it can encompass (gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, transsexual, etc.).

Shorty said:

ok..forgive me for my ignorance but... "queer" is an acceptable term? seems offensive to me.

I personally do not like the word. But, yes, it has been widely "reclaimed," as efan says.

Efan said:

Shorty said:

ok..forgive me for my ignorance but... "queer" is an acceptable term? seems offensive to me.

It's a reclaimed word. It's also more convenient than typing out every component in what it can encompass (gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, transsexual, etc.).

imago said:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/06/28/mcnaught.gays.workplace/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

I posted it in this forum deliberately, because this thread is not about the politics of being

queer (gay, bi, transgender), but about a very personal and private issue.

How much of your private life would you like to share with your work place.

I think coming out is a brave thing to do, but I can't fathom how anybody feels

safe doing it considering how few gay and lesbian people make it up

the social latter into upper management. I've seen plenty of middle managers

but can't think of any upper managers from my own experience. I know they

must exist, but I've never seen them.

Do you think the queer community should come out at work?

I don't think anybody should feel obligated to tell their co-workers anything that involves their private life.

JoeTyler said:

AND, let's not forget how fuckin' stupid are the 90% of the straight males workers when it comes to work with a gay guy. Homophobia still exists, people...

so, NO, the queer comunity should not come out at work...it's personal stuff, and you shouldn't mix personal stuff with your co-workers...

If you have to deal with homophobia at work, then by default your coworkers have mixed their personal stuff with work. I agree that people who will see their careers limited (or worse) by coming out should take heed. But those who can safely do it should not have to let ill-informed, backward thinking dominate.

Shorty said:

Efan said:

It's a reclaimed word. It's also more convenient than typing out every component in what it can encompass (gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, transsexual, etc.).

hmm...interesting. seems "gay" would be a better all encompassing word. but what do I know.

"Gay" seems to be used a lot more for men, so some lesbians don't want to be called that. Also, many (most) transgendered people wouldn't consider themselves gay. In some ways, it's just about respecting the different viewpoints of all involved.

Nobody has to go to that trouble for me. My gaydar is infallible.

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

I can't answer for everyone but I think it's a good idea. I'm not talking about an announcement but not editing your life.

that seems the best policy for everyone, both straight and gay

people at work say to me "my partner" "wife" "boyfriend" etc and that is all I really need to know in order to have a polite and friendly working relationship with someone with a few personal nicities.

An announcement would be a bit though I would actually find it an amusing diversion to the work day!

JoeTyler said:

CarrieMpls said:

Um, no.

Saying “I’m gay” is the same as saying “I’m straight”. You may love to suck cock or not in either scenario but it is not being said and neither is it an overtly sexual statement.

I disagree. A gay worker saying to other male co-worker "I'm gay" means that there could be sex. It IS a case of mixing sex + work, which, I've said, it's a bad idea...

and as other orgers have said, it's not relevant to doing their jobs...

AND, let's not forget how fuckin' stupid are the 90% of the straight males workers when it comes to work with a gay guy. Homophobia still exists, people...

so, NO, the queer comunity should not come out at work...it's personal stuff, and you shouldn't mix personal stuff with your co-workers...

[Edited 6/29/11 8:34am]

I work in an office with two women. They know my sexuality and the reason they know it is because a personal female friend of mine, that used to work in the building, recommended me for the job and she had told them before I even got the job. We discuss gay issues when they come up in the news, just like we discuss any other issues. They talk about their husbands or boyfriends in general such as where they went last weekend, etc. I'm never in a relationship (I be damned if I put up with a lowdown man on a daily basis ) but if I do happen to be seeing someone for a very short while, I talk about what we did over the weekend just like they do. However, with me, the rare time that I see a man more than just a one night stand, it's usually me talking to them about the arguements that we had.

I work with many men also that are in and out of the building all day also such as custodians, maintenance, and security. They've never asked and I've never told. However, I don't put on an act in front of them either. I am 100% totally my natural total self and don't lie and make up stories about a wife or girlfriend and I also don't try to butch up my gestures or speech either because I shouldn't have to. If they don't like it, fuck 'em, is the way I see it. And we talk about any and everything, much moreso than I do with the women who I'm completely open with because they just don't talk that way. When some of the men talk about explicit sex, hell, I don't refrain from chiming in from commenting either, I get explicit right back with them. Hell, if they want to tell me all their dirt voluntarily, who am I to stop them or even give them advice.

If they were to ask me my sexuality, alone, and with a serious look on their face and not a damn smirk, I have no problem telling them. However, if they came to me with a smirk on their face in front of a group of people, I still wouldn't deny it though. I just wouldn't give them the answer they want to hear which in their idiotic brain would consider humorous. I've had that happen before and I've given them an answer that pisses them off such as...."Why do you want to know? Are you trying to ask me out?"....to which the response is...."HELL naw!".....to which my response is....."Why else would you want to know unless you're wanting to ask me out? Well, since you're scared to come right out and ask me out, I'll just go ahead and give you my answer...no, I will not go out with you".....that usually pisses them off. Then, they wanted to start going off but I'm a bitch and if anybody's going to come out on top, it's going to be me, not them. I told that son of a bitch...."Uh....look trash...I don't give a damn if you like me or not, but you will respect me whether you want to or not and if you don't want to, that just makes it even better because you have to if you want to keep your job. I will take personal pleasure out of going above your head and getting your ass fired, so much pleasure it will be like a fucking orgasm to me, and if they don't fire you, then I'll sue the living hell out of them. And I am so glad you came to me thinking you were going to make me look like a fool in front of a group of people because you're stupid ass didn't even have the brains to realize you were doing it in front of witnesses so it's no longer your word against mine". I had that happen to me one time and never again in all my 12 years here. I let them know from the very first incident that I don't put up with being harassed and I also live for revenge.

Shorty said:

Efan said:

It's a reclaimed word. It's also more convenient than typing out every component in what it can encompass (gay, lesbian, bi, transgender, transsexual, etc.).

hmm...interesting. seems "gay" would be a better all encompassing word. but what do I know.

"Gay" used to mean happy long time ago. I actually do like "queer" better.

Anyways, who you are as a person of any orientation shouldn't affect your work life. Just don't pretend you're into the same shit your "straight" co-worker is into.

Timmy84 said:

Shorty said:

hmm...interesting. seems "gay" would be a better all encompassing word. but what do I know.

"Gay" used to mean happy long time ago. I actually do like "queer" better.

Anyways, who you are as a person of any orientation shouldn't affect your work life. Just don't pretend you're into the same shit your "straight" co-worker is into.

It just depends on where you're from. I hate "queer" worse than anything. All I ever heard when I was growing up from these damn rednecks was "kwurr".

Down here in Mississippi, only in the black world, I've never heard it in the white world ever....a lot of them will call a gay person a "punk". Out of all the slurs, that one never stung me at all because I had always associated a punk as someone like a punk rocker or a street punk. Someone that was usually intimidating and to be feared, that is until I started hearing Mississippi blacks using it as a homophobic slur. So being the evil bitch I am, a word that I've always associated with someone to be feared, didn't bother me one bit. They also like to use the word "sweet" though and that one pisses me off just as much as "queer". When I hear the word "sweet", I want to show the motherfucker who said it just how damn "sweet" I can be which is none because I'm rattlesnake venom dammitt.

.

.

.

[Edited 6/29/11 11:26am]

I can't speak for anybody else - queer or straight - however I am a hetrosexual woman and I don't talk about my personal life at work. I don't feel that anyone needs to know what happens in your bedroom but you and the person(s) you entertain there.

We do have a few gay men at work who are out and nobody has an issue with it, and they are not treated any differently (thank God) and it's not treated like it's a bfd.

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

I can't answer for everyone but I think it's a good idea. I'm not talking about an announcement but not editing your life.

I agree

vainandy said:

JoeTyler said:

I disagree. A gay worker saying to other male co-worker "I'm gay" means that there could be sex. It IS a case of mixing sex + work, which, I've said, it's a bad idea...

and as other orgers have said, it's not relevant to doing their jobs...

AND, let's not forget how fuckin' stupid are the 90% of the straight males workers when it comes to work with a gay guy. Homophobia still exists, people...

so, NO, the queer comunity should not come out at work...it's personal stuff, and you shouldn't mix personal stuff with your co-workers...

[Edited 6/29/11 8:34am]

I work in an office with two women. They know my sexuality and the reason they know it is because a personal female friend of mine, that used to work in the building, recommended me for the job and she had told them before I even got the job. We discuss gay issues when they come up in the news, just like we discuss any other issues. They talk about their husbands or boyfriends in general such as where they went last weekend, etc. I'm never in a relationship (I be damned if I put up with a lowdown man on a daily basis ) but if I do happen to be seeing someone for a very short while, I talk about what we did over the weekend just like they do. However, with me, the rare time that I see a man more than just a one night stand, it's usually me talking to them about the arguements that we had.

I work with many men also that are in and out of the building all day also such as custodians, maintenance, and security. They've never asked and I've never told. However, I don't put on an act in front of them either. I am 100% totally my natural total self and don't lie and make up stories about a wife or girlfriend and I also don't try to butch up my gestures or speech either because I shouldn't have to. If they don't like it, fuck 'em, is the way I see it. And we talk about any and everything, much moreso than I do with the women who I'm completely open with because they just don't talk that way. When some of the men talk about explicit sex, hell, I don't refrain from chiming in from commenting either, I get explicit right back with them. Hell, if they want to tell me all their dirt voluntarily, who am I to stop them or even give them advice.

If they were to ask me my sexuality, alone, and with a serious look on their face and not a damn smirk, I have no problem telling them. However, if they came to me with a smirk on their face in front of a group of people, I still wouldn't deny it though. I just wouldn't give them the answer they want to hear which in their idiotic brain would consider humorous. I've had that happen before and I've given them an answer that pisses them off such as...."Why do you want to know? Are you trying to ask me out?"....to which the response is...."HELL naw!".....to which my response is....."Why else would you want to know unless you're wanting to ask me out? Well, since you're scared to come right out and ask me out, I'll just go ahead and give you my answer...no, I will not go out with you".....that usually pisses them off. Then, they wanted to start going off but I'm a bitch and if anybody's going to come out on top, it's going to be me, not them. I told that son of a bitch...."Uh....look trash...I don't give a damn if you like me or not, but you will respect me whether you want to or not and if you don't want to, that just makes it even better because you have to if you want to keep your job. I will take personal pleasure out of going above your head and getting your ass fired, so much pleasure it will be like a fucking orgasm to me, and if they don't fire you, then I'll sue the living hell out of them. And I am so glad you came to me thinking you were going to make me look like a fool in front of a group of people because you're stupid ass didn't even have the brains to realize you were doing it in front of witnesses so it's no longer your word against mine". I had that happen to me one time and never again in all my 12 years here. I let them know from the very first incident that I don't put up with being harassed and I also live for revenge.

good story, and I'm glad you put those bastards in their place; bullying can be a soul crushing xperience...

you know? you could be a good nemesis. Do you like prank jokes? Hell, I would gladly "steal" your car for a couple of weeks and then return it to you with no fuel and used condoms in the backseat just to see your reaction

JoeTyler said:

vainandy said:

I work in an office with two women. They know my sexuality and the reason they know it is because a personal female friend of mine, that used to work in the building, recommended me for the job and she had told them before I even got the job. We discuss gay issues when they come up in the news, just like we discuss any other issues. They talk about their husbands or boyfriends in general such as where they went last weekend, etc. I'm never in a relationship (I be damned if I put up with a lowdown man on a daily basis ) but if I do happen to be seeing someone for a very short while, I talk about what we did over the weekend just like they do. However, with me, the rare time that I see a man more than just a one night stand, it's usually me talking to them about the arguements that we had.

I work with many men also that are in and out of the building all day also such as custodians, maintenance, and security. They've never asked and I've never told. However, I don't put on an act in front of them either. I am 100% totally my natural total self and don't lie and make up stories about a wife or girlfriend and I also don't try to butch up my gestures or speech either because I shouldn't have to. If they don't like it, fuck 'em, is the way I see it. And we talk about any and everything, much moreso than I do with the women who I'm completely open with because they just don't talk that way. When some of the men talk about explicit sex, hell, I don't refrain from chiming in from commenting either, I get explicit right back with them. Hell, if they want to tell me all their dirt voluntarily, who am I to stop them or even give them advice.

If they were to ask me my sexuality, alone, and with a serious look on their face and not a damn smirk, I have no problem telling them. However, if they came to me with a smirk on their face in front of a group of people, I still wouldn't deny it though. I just wouldn't give them the answer they want to hear which in their idiotic brain would consider humorous. I've had that happen before and I've given them an answer that pisses them off such as...."Why do you want to know? Are you trying to ask me out?"....to which the response is...."HELL naw!".....to which my response is....."Why else would you want to know unless you're wanting to ask me out? Well, since you're scared to come right out and ask me out, I'll just go ahead and give you my answer...no, I will not go out with you".....that usually pisses them off. Then, they wanted to start going off but I'm a bitch and if anybody's going to come out on top, it's going to be me, not them. I told that son of a bitch...."Uh....look trash...I don't give a damn if you like me or not, but you will respect me whether you want to or not and if you don't want to, that just makes it even better because you have to if you want to keep your job. I will take personal pleasure out of going above your head and getting your ass fired, so much pleasure it will be like a fucking orgasm to me, and if they don't fire you, then I'll sue the living hell out of them. And I am so glad you came to me thinking you were going to make me look like a fool in front of a group of people because you're stupid ass didn't even have the brains to realize you were doing it in front of witnesses so it's no longer your word against mine". I had that happen to me one time and never again in all my 12 years here. I let them know from the very first incident that I don't put up with being harassed and I also live for revenge.

good story, and I'm glad you put those bastards in their place; bullying can be a soul crushing xperience...

you know? you could be a good nemesis. Do you like prank jokes? Hell, I would gladly "steal" your car for a couple of weeks and then return it to you with no fuel and used condoms in the backseat just to see your reaction

The joke would be on you. The air conditioner doesn't work and as hot as it is, after sitting through one red light, you'd have it returned before I even knew it was gone.

vainandy said:

JoeTyler said:

good story, and I'm glad you put those bastards in their place; bullying can be a soul crushing xperience...

you know? you could be a good nemesis. Do you like prank jokes? Hell, I would gladly "steal" your car for a couple of weeks and then return it to you with no fuel and used condoms in the backseat just to see your reaction

The joke would be on you. The air conditioner doesn't work and as hot as it is, after sitting through one red light, you'd have it returned before I even knew it was gone.

there are a TON of gays in Minnesota by the way.....

BklynBabe said:

there are a TON of gays in Minnesota by the way.....

Not sure if that's for my benefit, but, yeah, I've met some Minnesotan Nancies.

I was confused about PP4 saying his manager was gay and married. Barring the possibility he was married out of state to another guy (which turned out to be the case), I was thinking maybe he was in a situation similar to my own.

[Edited 6/29/11 15:01pm]

Efan said:

Saying "I'm gay" is not that personal. People bring their personal lives into work all the time: putting up pictures of your family, wearing a class ring, displaying memorabilia that's important to you. And in this day and age of low-walled cubes, you end up knowing far more about your coworkers than you ever wanted to anyway.

Unless you work for a company that discriminates, there's absolutely no reason a queer person couldn't discuss his/her life to the same (professional) level that any other person does.

Thank you!
I'm so glad I found your post because I was just about to post similarly without reading the entire thread.

I'm sick of folk saying "not relevant" and equatiing being out to bringing your sex-life to work. Being out has nothing to do with discussing sex in the workplace.

Every time someone whips out a pic of their kid or says "oh I gotta get home cook dinner for my husband" they are bringing their personal life and being out about who they are at work. It only seems to count when you're gay and that's just plain bullshit.

[Edited 6/29/11 16:02pm]

johnart said:

Efan said:

Saying "I'm gay" is not that personal. People bring their personal lives into work all the time: putting up pictures of your family, wearing a class ring, displaying memorabilia that's important to you. And in this day and age of low-walled cubes, you end up knowing far more about your coworkers than you ever wanted to anyway.

Unless you work for a company that discriminates, there's absolutely no reason a queer person couldn't discuss his/her life to the same (professional) level that any other person does.

Thank you!
I'm so glad I found your post because I was just about to post similarly without reading the entire thread.

I'm sick of folk saying "not relevant" and equatiing being out to bringing your sex-life to work. Being out has nothing to do with discussing sex in the workplace.

Every time someone whips out a pic of their kid or says "oh I gotta get home cook dinner for my husband" they are bringing their personal life and being out about who they are at work. It only seems to count when you're gay and that's just plain bullshit.

[Edited 6/29/11 16:02pm]

Preach the word...tell the truth on em and amend.

Lammastide:

Care to share?

CarrieMpls said:

JoeTyler said:

Basically, I don't think that mixing sex + work is a good idea

a gay worker confessing to his male co-workers that he's gay would be as harmful/problematic as a straight female worker confessing to his male co-workers that she loves to suck cock and swallow...

sex + work = NO

[Edited 6/29/11 8:16am]

Um, no.

Saying “I’m gay” is the same as saying “I’m straight”. You may love to suck cock or not in either scenario but it is not being said and neither is it an overtly sexual statement.

Um, no. Not at all, not logically or socially.

There might be something similar in the blunt/horned meaning of the statement,

but they are far from the same.

It's like saying "a man dating a woman is the same as a woman dating a woman."

It's not the same, and it's not supposed to be.

johnart said:

Efan said:

Saying "I'm gay" is not that personal. People bring their personal lives into work all the time: putting up pictures of your family, wearing a class ring, displaying memorabilia that's important to you. And in this day and age of low-walled cubes, you end up knowing far more about your coworkers than you ever wanted to anyway.

Unless you work for a company that discriminates, there's absolutely no reason a queer person couldn't discuss his/her life to the same (professional) level that any other person does.

Thank you!
I'm so glad I found your post because I was just about to post similarly without reading the entire thread.

I'm sick of folk saying "not relevant" and equatiing being out to bringing your sex-life to work. Being out has nothing to do with discussing sex in the workplace.

Every time someone whips out a pic of their kid or says "oh I gotta get home cook dinner for my husband" they are bringing their personal life and being out about who they are at work. It only seems to count when you're gay and that's just plain bullshit.

[Edited 6/29/11 16:02pm]

I think there's a lot of sense in your argument. I wouldn't expect that everyone works in a place where they could be as casual about simply being gay as their counterparts can about simply being straight, but it would be nice if we pursued a broader environment in which they could.

My own situation in a way renders my coming out not such a casual lifestyle statement, though. Because I live pretty much a conventional hetero lifestyle, saying I'm gay is perhaps a more pointedly sexual proclamation. Folks' imaginations automatically and immediately go to my bed and speculation of who's in it with me, whether it's my wife and, if not, whether she's in on the action. I don't mind the questions in some contexts, because I know my situation is curious, and I'm trying to be a dignified example of others like me. But because I have a family who'd also be assessed in this all, I've "gone there" with a certain mind for discretion and safety, you'll understand.

I still navigate all these issues in my current vocational environment, of course. But sexuality is already on the table there -- and people have so suffered around sexuality, silence, self-hate and alienation in faith communities that I think my being more actively out is particularly important there.

I guess my point is that this whole matter is pretty relative. Broadly, I'd love to see LGBTQs be out and dare folk to have a problem with it. On a more individually paractical level, though, I can understand why there's variation in tactic.

[Edited 6/29/11 17:06pm]

paisleypark4 said:

johnart said:

Preach the word...tell the truth on em and amend.

Lammastide:

I was confused about PP4 saying his manager was gay and married. Barring the possibility he was married out of state to another guy (which turned out to be the case), I was thinking maybe he was in a situation similar to my own.

Care to share?

Share what? My own situation? I'm gay, affirming and selectively out, but I'm married to a woman.

[Edited 6/29/11 17:03pm]

Totally irrelevant in my opinion.

How with who you're sleeping at night has anything to do with the work you do in the day, you haven't been hired to do the boss, you've been hired to do the job.

Lammastide said:

johnart said:

Thank you!
I'm so glad I found your post because I was just about to post similarly without reading the entire thread.

I'm sick of folk saying "not relevant" and equatiing being out to bringing your sex-life to work. Being out has nothing to do with discussing sex in the workplace.

Every time someone whips out a pic of their kid or says "oh I gotta get home cook dinner for my husband" they are bringing their personal life and being out about who they are at work. It only seems to count when you're gay and that's just plain bullshit.

[Edited 6/29/11 16:02pm]

I think there's a lot of sense in your argument. I wouldn't expect that everyone works in a place where they could be as casual about simply being gay as their counterparts can about simply being straight, but it would be nice if we pursued a broader environment in which they could.

My own situation in a way renders my coming out not such a casual lifestyle statement, though. Because I live pretty much a conventional hetero lifestyle, saying I'm gay is perhaps a more pointedly sexual proclamation. Folks' imaginations automatically and immediately go to my bed and speculation of who's in it with me, whether it's my wife and, if not, whether she's in on the action. I don't mind the questions in some contexts, because I know my situation is curious, and I'm trying to be a dignified example of others like me. But because I have a family who'd also be assessed in this all, I've "gone there" with a certain mind for discretion and safety, you'll understand.

I still navigate all these issues in my current vocational environment, of course. But sexuality is already on the table there -- and people have so suffered around sexuality, silence, self-hate and alienation in faith communities that I think my being more actively out is particularly important there.

I guess my point is that this whole matter is pretty relative. Broadly, I'd love to see LGBTQs be out and dare folk to have a problem with it. On a more individually paractical level, though, I can understand why there's variation in tactic.

[Edited 6/29/11 17:06pm]

You are not responsible for what other folk think or where their minds go. That is on them, and not for you to concern yourself with. This is what I've learned and it's quite freeing. I found the alternative a bit exhausting.

That said I understand your situation happens to be different than that of a lot of gay folk and appreciate that you might err on the side of careful discretion on behalf of your wife and child.