Ok so I'm checking my voice mail and I get a rant from a girlfriend who is having baby daddy issues yet again. I've learned over the years to listen and not offer up any advice as she will not leave this man no matter what I or anyone else advises.

Her rant is the usual "he's no good, doesn't see his kids enough, I'm doing it all by myself, I don't deserve this shit" type stuff. I've heard this from too many women.

So...I ask you orgers...in your honest opinion....are fathers needed? Most women I know are raising kids by themselves whether they are married or not. Women are the primary caregivers, they play both mom and dad, attend all the kiddie events and in some cases they bear most of the financial burden.

In the animal kingdom...most animals are raised by the mothers. I believe fathers are important but I question if they are really needed. Vaccinations are important but they may not be needed.

What say you?

Single parenting is fine, no matter the gender.

^ As a blanket statement I'm inclined to agree but not being a parent myself and observing the females around me, I'm wondering if dads are really all that necessary or are they just nice to have. Plus, as I mentioned, in the animal kingdom its all about momma. We could probably count on one hand the number of species where the males are an integral part of rearing offspring.

Involved father is 100% better than a useless one

and I dare say single parent is better than the tension, anger, resentment and frustration within a family where the father shirks his responsibilities leaving the mother to do it ALL

I never understand the mentality of a man who is all excited before the baby comes but once the kidlet is here and the real work begins.....off he goes.

A good father figure is definitely needed to raise a son.

Much like a good mother figure is needed for a daughter.

^ But haven't women always raised good sons (and daughters) on their own?

And likewise, they've raised not so good sons and daughters. Point being, females have pretty much done the job with or without help.

HotGritz said:

So...I ask you orgers...in your honest opinion....are [good] fathers needed?

Corrected. And: Yes.

StonedImmaculate said:

A good father figure is definitely needed to raise a son.

Much like a good mother figure is needed for a daughter.

Girls need good fathers every bit as much as boys do.

WaterInYourBath said:

HotGritz said:

So...I ask you orgers...in your honest opinion....are [good] fathers needed?

Corrected. And: Yes.

Any ole woman will do for a mom but the criteria is enhanced for the men?

HotGritz said:

Ok so I'm checking my voice mail and I get a rant from a girlfriend who is having baby daddy issues yet again. I've learned over the years to listen and not offer up any advice as she will not leave this man no matter what I or anyone else advises.

Her rant is the usual "he's no good, doesn't see his kids enough, I'm doing it all by myself, I don't deserve this shit" type stuff. I've heard this from too many women.

So...I ask you orgers...in your honest opinion....are fathers needed? Most women I know are raising kids by themselves whether they are married or not. Women are the primary caregivers, they play both mom and dad, attend all the kiddie events and in some cases they bear most of the financial burden.

In the animal kingdom...most animals are raised by the mothers. I believe fathers are important but I question if they are really needed. Vaccinations are important but they may not be needed.

What say you?

i think fathers are needed. i think their presence enriches a child's life. daddies who are motivated by ownership in a child will take more time to teach and love the child, thereby giving the child a higher IQ and better chance for survival in the world. plus, imo, babies should know their daddies. (unless the daddy is one of those abusive piece of sh%t)

BUT, if the father ain't willing or able, i also think that other people, male and female, can substitute for the lack of a father or mother in a child's world.

HotGritz said:

WaterInYourBath said:

Corrected. And: Yes.

Any ole woman will do for a mom but the criteria is enhanced for the men?

Your intial question pertained to men only, not women.

But to answer this second question: No, of course not. The criteria is equivalent in my book.

XxAxX said:

HotGritz said:

Ok so I'm checking my voice mail and I get a rant from a girlfriend who is having baby daddy issues yet again. I've learned over the years to listen and not offer up any advice as she will not leave this man no matter what I or anyone else advises.

Her rant is the usual "he's no good, doesn't see his kids enough, I'm doing it all by myself, I don't deserve this shit" type stuff. I've heard this from too many women.

So...I ask you orgers...in your honest opinion....are fathers needed? Most women I know are raising kids by themselves whether they are married or not. Women are the primary caregivers, they play both mom and dad, attend all the kiddie events and in some cases they bear most of the financial burden.

In the animal kingdom...most animals are raised by the mothers. I believe fathers are important but I question if they are really needed. Vaccinations are important but they may not be needed.

What say you?

i think fathers are needed. i think their presence enriches a child's life. daddies who are motivated by ownership in a child will take more time to teach and love the child, thereby giving the child a higher IQ and better chance for survival in the world. plus, imo, babies should know their daddies. (unless the daddy is one of those abusive piece of sh%t)

BUT, if the father ain't willing or able, i also think that other people, male and female, can substitute for the lack of a father or mother in a child's world.

Aaah. This makes sense to me. I think that the problem with absentee fathers is the lack of ownership, the lack of feeling attached and that you helped create a new life. Women have the benefit, or burden depending on how you look at it, of establishing that ownership by virtue of being pregnant for damn near a year and going through childbirth and then all of a sudden...VOILA! Here's this person who has been a physical part of you and making their presence known for so many months.

Then again we could be wrong. Maybe parenting is merely instinctual and more women have the instinct than men lending (again like in the rest of the animal kingdom) and this is why so many kids don't have fathers and why we have to ask or prove if they are needed.

Where are the org daddies when you need them?

HotGritz said:

XxAxX said:

i think fathers are needed. i think their presence enriches a child's life. daddies who are motivated by ownership in a child will take more time to teach and love the child, thereby giving the child a higher IQ and better chance for survival in the world. plus, imo, babies should know their daddies. (unless the daddy is one of those abusive piece of sh%t)

BUT, if the father ain't willing or able, i also think that other people, male and female, can substitute for the lack of a father or mother in a child's world.

Aaah. This makes sense to me. I think that the problem with absentee fathers is the lack of ownership, the lack of feeling attached and that you helped create a new life. Women have the benefit, or burden depending on how you look at it, of establishing that ownership by virtue of being pregnant for damn near a year and going through childbirth and then all of a sudden...VOILA! Here's this person who has been a physical part of you and making their presence known for so many months.

Then again we could be wrong. Maybe parenting is merely instinctual and more women have the instinct than men lending (again like in the rest of the animal kingdom) and this is why so many kids don't have fathers and why we have to ask or prove if they are needed.

i recently read that a study in minneapolis concluded that in general children were at much greater risk of coming to harm when left with a male caregiver. that is, more than half of head trauma in children during the study resulted from an attack by a male on the child.

i think a lot of guys accidentally become fathers, unwillingly, when tnhey impregnate their GFs.

these types of fathers do not perform well in that role.

the men who want to be fathers are the kinds we want around children. they are far less likely to bash the child's head down the road in when it gets noisy and stinky and whiny and.. well, you know. kid like

anyway i think the gender difference arises from hormones, genetics. the female of the species is equipped to nurture. it just is this way biologically. but, then again some women are terrible nurturers and some men are really great.

a child learns things from both parents. both mother and father are really needed.

Genesia said:

StonedImmaculate said:

A good father figure is definitely needed to raise a son.

Much like a good mother figure is needed for a daughter.

Girls need good fathers every bit as much as boys do.

Totally.

Fathers are absolutely needed, imo.

Fathers are most definately needed. What this world most definately does not need is one more "baby daddy".

Absolutely.

Had my dad not died and left my mom some inheritence, life would be harder.

He was a real fucker, and their marriage was crap.

I hated the guy and didn't speak to him for the last 4 years I lived in his house.

A real fucker.

But he had money, so yes--fathers are needed.

Now, if they're bums, of course not.

HotGritz said:

I never understand the mentality of a man who is all excited before the baby comes but once the kidlet is here and the real work begins.....off he goes.

Because it's hard work, children do and should come first, you will be broke, and your time isn't your own for the next two decades.

What I mean is that ideally a kid needs both parents but a single mom or dad can get the job done.

It's just that when a boy reaches a certain age he needs a man in his life...and a girl needs a woman.

Father/mother figure can be an aunt, grandma, family friend, etc.

HotGritz said:

^ As a blanket statement I'm inclined to agree but not being a parent myself and observing the females around me, I'm wondering if dads are really all that necessary or are they just nice to have. Plus, as I mentioned, in the animal kingdom its all about momma. We could probably count on one hand the number of species where the males are an integral part of rearing offspring.

Actually need more than both hands.

Animal Dads

Most animals never even see their parents! Many never meet their fathers and some never meet their mothers, either. Some insects, fish, amphibians and reptiles hatch from fertilized eggs and face life completely alone. When animals are raised by parents, it's most often the mother who does the rearing. But we found some unusual animal dads.

Catfish: A father sea catfish keeps the eggs of his young in his mouth until they are ready to hatch. He will not eat until his young are born, which may take several weeks.

used by permission: Daesaeng Corporation

Cockroach: A father cockroach eats bird droppings to obtain precious nitrogen, which he carries back to feed his young.

Duck: Most male ducks live as bachelors, but the ruddy duck of North America helps care for his young.

Frog: The male Darwin frog hatches his eggs in a pouch in his mouth. He can eat and continue about his business until his tadpoles lose their tails, become tiny frogs, and jump out of his mouth!

Monkey: Marmosets are tiny South American monkeys. The fathers take care of their babies from birth. When the marmoset is born, the father cleans it, then carries it to the mother only when it needs to be nursed. When the baby can eat solid food, the father will feed it.

Penguin: A father Emperor penguin withstands the Antarctic cold for 60 days or more to protect his eggs, which he keeps on his feet, covered with a feathered flap. During this entire time he doesn't eat a thing. Most father penguins lose about 25 pounds while they wait for their babies to hatch. Afterward, they feed the chicks a special liquid from their throats. When the mother penguins return to care for the young, the fathers go to sea to eat and rest.

Rhea: Rheas are large South American birds similar to ostriches. Father rhea takes sole care of his young. From eggs to chicks, he feeds, defends, and protects them until they are old enough to survive on their own.

Sand grouse: A father Namaqua sand grouse of Africa's Kalahari Desert flies as far as 50 miles a day in order to soak himself in water and return to his nest, where his chicks can drink from his feathers!

Sea horse: The male sea horse has a pouch in which the mother lays her eggs. The father then looks after the eggs for about two months, until they hatch and leave the pouch. He continues to protect the young until they are able to live on their own.

copyright John White, used with permission

Siamese fighting fish: When the mother lays her eggs, the father catches them in his mouth, then drops them into a nest he has prepared. He guards the nest and protects the baby fish when they hatch.

Wolf: When the mother wolf gives birth to pups, the father stands guard outside their den and brings food to the mother and pups. As they grow, he not only plays with them but also teaches them how to survive. Wolves continue to live together much as human families do.

http://www.factmonster.co...68562.html

[Edited 5/9/11 18:09pm]

yanowha said:

Fathers are most definately needed. What this world most definately does not need is one more "baby daddy".

Absolutely. Looking back, I'm glad I had a strong, tough father to stay on my ass and make hit the books. He could be a pain-in-the-ass with his autocratic ways(still is sometimes), but pop was right. Taught me how to survive in this world.

I've always felt kids who live in tough neighborhoods need strong dads. If I didn't have him growing up in the South Bronx, my life might have turned out differently.

It takes a village to raise a child....

this means, the more good influences (adults) on any child the better.

Any child will be a well adjusted adult if he is raised by any good parent, single mother or father, but to have both is ideal.

A good father is one who takes an active role in raising the child, and not just sees a child as a financial obligation.

A child should never be treated like a bill. I see this more often than not and the wives might as well be single mothers. So yeah, if you only throw money at a kid, then its better if you just provide and stay the hell away from that kid, boy or girl. You'll just mess that kid's head up that way and make a kid think that shit is OK... its not.

A babydaddy is a man that only throws money at a child and spends zero time and takes no active role in the rearing of the child. So married men can be "babydaddies" too and no child needs a parent like that IMHO.

Yes of course Fathers are needed. No matter the gender of the child, a child needs both parents active in their lives whether or not the parents or together or not. Luckily, I had a good father who was always there for me, sadly he passed away 10 years ago which was too soon, but I never forget how blessed I am to have had such a caring and doting father in my life. I don't know what I would be right now had I not had both of my parents in my life.

Forgot to answer the question.

Yes fathers, men are very important in the lives of their children.

To be completly honest many babies daddy relationships are based on conceiving a child on a fuck -- hence the confusion and anger... he's ain't worth shit or he's no good blah, blah, blah.

I never felt like I needed a father to raise my kids but it would have been nice.

FATHERS are needed, Baby Daddies (i.e. sperm donors) are a waste o' space...

(and this has NOTHING to do with single Fathers, there is a HUGE difference!)

What was Chris Rock's line? Sure, you can raise a kid on your own, but no amount of discipline works like "Wait till I tell your father"....

The PC answer is: Of course you need fathers.

However, my perspective on things really go against that point.

I was raised without my father. I had a drunk step daddy who really wasn't ideal, yet I turned out very ok.

My nieces/nephews have a very uninvolved, selfish father who doesn't take time to teach his children (he has 7) anything. He seems to think that the mother's role is to raise & teach the kids. I have seen his kids suffer from lack of attention, yet, the two oldest, who are my kids' age, seem to be ok...time will tell about the others (still young).

My two kids are good kids, however, my oldest is constantly giving me problems with his grades. I am very involved and highly disappointed with his attitude regarding school. I have preached the importance of a good education since his 4th grade (he's 2nd year in HS now).

So, there you have two examples of bad fathers = good kids and one example of good father = struggling kid.

Really, I feel it's an individual thing with children...you either have the fortitude to perservere and will regardless of the situation, or you fall victim to society. Blame who you want.