Children need love, support, guidance, concern, attention (among other things). These things they can get from a mother and father (biological or adoptive) if their parents are straight and together, from their mothers or fathers if they are parented by lesbians or gay men, from a mother or a father if their parent is not part of a couple.

The argument that fathers are needed because men have money is an argument in support of pay equity, not an argument for the necessity of fathers.

HotGritz said:

Where are the org daddies when you need them?

Right here babe!

YES, we are needed. YES, we should be an integral part of our children's lives. YES we should care.

You can't lump all men in the same pot. Some of us have strong fatherly instincts, and some don't. Some of us want to experience life in the company of the children which we helped to bring forth to this world and help change the diapers and help feed them and help teach them to walk/catch/swim, and help discipline them...while some of us are just good at spreading semen.

A strong single mother, same as a strong single father, can be more than capable of raising a child alone. But it is not an ideal situation. Life is hard enough. Even now that my kids are older (9, 11 & almost 13), I dread the coming change and becoming a part-time father. How it's going to affect them and how they're going to transition from seeing me every day to once a week and every other weekend. When I'm not here to help with the homework or the science fair projects or the "talks". I mean, sure they are well-adjusted, smart, happy kids so I'm confident that everything will be fine...but the truth of the matter is that only time will tell.

But I know for a fact that I helped make them the strong creatures that they are, and that YES, I WAS, AM and WILL BE very much needed.

this thread should be titled 'Are children really needed?'

I say yes. Fathers teach the things that the mother probably can't. A father can teach you the parts of a car, how to swing a baseball bat or shoot a hoop. I father can teach you how to protect yourself against bullies. A father is someone that's ususally the cooler head when problems arise. And when a father tells you everything will be okay you usually believe it.

I was blessed to have and still have a good father in my life. Of course we've had our differences but the older I get the more I realize how much like my father I really am.

[Edited 5/9/11 19:49pm]

whistle said:

this thread should be titled 'Are children really needed?'

dannyd5050 said:

I say yes. Fathers teach the things that the mother probably can't. A father can teach you the parts of a car, how to swing a baseball bat or shoot a hoop. I father can teach you how to protect yourself against bullies. A father is someone that's ususally the cooler head when problems arise. And when a father tells you everything will be okay you usually believe it.

Are you serious?? Do you actually think that there is something biological about knowledge of auto mechanics?

[Edited 5/9/11 20:04pm]

whistle said:

this thread should be titled 'Are children really needed?'

That was my first reaction when I read the OP's post. But I thought it'd be best if I kept my indifference toward the little walking petri dishes to myself.

strmn said:

Children need love, support, guidance, concern, attention (among other things). These things they can get from a mother and father (biological or adoptive) if their parents are straight and together, from their mothers or fathers if they are parented by lesbians or gay men, from a mother or a father if their parent is not part of a couple.

The argument that fathers are needed because men have money is an argument in support of pay equity, not an argument for the necessity of fathers.

I said the same.. and I co-sign this post 1million percent.strmn said it better than I did!

dannyd5050 said:

I say yes. Fathers teach the things that the mother probably can't. A father can teach you the parts of a car, how to swing a baseball bat or shoot a hoop. I father can teach you how to protect yourself against bullies. A father is someone that's ususally the cooler head when problems arise. And when a father tells you everything will be okay you usually believe it.

I was blessed to have and still have a good father in my life. Of course we've had our differences but the older I get the more I realize how much like my father I really am.

[Edited 5/9/11 19:49pm]

Ok, I get that fathers are important and I agree they are needed.

But your first paragraph is bullshit. I know how to fix a car, and I know it's parts. I also play basketball, as well as various other sports, have ever since grade 6. I can also defend myself physically and I deal with problems without getting hysterical. Men aren't the only ones who can do those things.

And I'm a woman.

[Edited 5/9/11 20:35pm]

If the father is a control freak and is mentally and physically abusive to the children, it is better that he is not around.

The only reason my mother married my father was because my grandmother was very overprotective of her (just like my grandmother was very overprotective of me) and didn't like for her to go anywhere or do anything because she was always worried that something bad might happen to her. When my mother met my father in the 1960s, she saw it as a way to get out of the house and have some freedom by marrying him. Remember, this was the 1960s before Women's Lib. She knew he wasn't the same religion as her but she never knew he was such a "nut" about it until I was born and she put up a Christmas Tree only to wake up and find it thrown out into the front yard, decorations, presents, and all.

He was also racist. Racism was and still is common down South but he was racist to the extreme, I'm talking Klan level racist. If a black person was even on a TV commercial, he would turn the TV off until the commercial went off and then turn the TV back on afterwards. She had no idea he was that racist when she first met him or at least not to that extreme.

Then, he had a problem with me personally. My mother had twins two years after I was born and another child a year after that so she had three infants to take care of at the same time as well as a three year old (me) who was into everything. My grandmother took me in a lot of the time to take some of the stress off of my mother and he hated my grandmother's influence on me and accused her of "ruining" me because I had a mind of my own and didn't have the same opinions as he did. However, having his blood in me, I inherited his stubborness so I was just as passionate that he was wrong as he was that he was right and I wasn't afraid to stand up to him about it just like he wasn't afraid to stand up with his wrongness. So naturally, me being someone just as stubborn as he was and going up against him with completely opposite views, it led to both physical and mental abuse.

In the early 1970s when doors opened up to more women and we were also old enough to go to either school or daycare, my mother started working so she could have her own spending money and not be totally dependent on a nitwit like him. My mother was always a big large girl also who had always had to have a seamstress make her dresses. But when stores like "The Tall and Stout Shop", "Catherine's", "Lane Bryant", etc. opened up for the plus size ladies, my mother started wearing pants and he sayed she was "wicked" for wearing them. That was always a constant fight also and he also had a problem with her back talking him and not taking any of his goofy shit. But even though he may have beat my ass, he never laid a hand on her because she always said if he ever did, she would have his goofy ass thrown under the jail and she meant it.

Then, when I was in the second grade, my parents separated for almost a year and me, my mother, my brother, and my two sisters were living in an apartment. He didn't want a divorce and his way of forcing her back to him was to give her just barely enough money to survive. I remember the lights being cut off several times when we were in that apartment. She finally saw she couldn't afford to support four kids out on her own with the little bit of money that he paid her and the little bit of money she made at her job at the time. Remember, this was the early 1970s and women didn't make near as much money as men. So finally got back with him and we all moved back in.

The rest of the years with him were pure hell. I stayed with my grandmother every single weekend, all summer long, and every holiday vacation. The only reason I even went home in the first place was because we lived in a different school district than my grandmother and I had to go home in order to go to school. We fought so damn much though that my grandmother even suggested adopting me so she would be my legal guardian and I could go to school in her district. My mother wasn't about to sign her rights as a parent away though and she never even approached my father with the suggestion. My mother started seeing other men in secret (black men ) and as soon as she got off work at five o'clock, she just didn't come home until the wee hours of the morning until after everyone had gone to sleep, mainly the bastard. It was apparent that she had developed the attitude of being married in just name only so she could support her children but had her own life in the streets away from his ass every night.

They finally got divorced a week before I graduated high school. I have always said, I would have had a much better life if he had just never been around in the first place. So no, a father is not definately needed. Hell, I wish I didn't have one.

HotGritz said:

Ok so I'm checking my voice mail and I get a rant from a girlfriend who is having baby daddy issues yet again. I've learned over the years to listen and not offer up any advice as she will not leave this man no matter what I or anyone else advises.

Her rant is the usual "he's no good, doesn't see his kids enough, I'm doing it all by myself, I don't deserve this shit" type stuff. I've heard this from too many women.

So...I ask you orgers...in your honest opinion....are fathers needed? Most women I know are raising kids by themselves whether they are married or not. Women are the primary caregivers, they play both mom and dad, attend all the kiddie events and in some cases they bear most of the financial burden.

In the animal kingdom...most animals are raised by the mothers. I believe fathers are important but I question if they are really needed. Vaccinations are important but they may not be needed.

What say you?

I have highlighted the problem.

Any time the word "daddy" or "mommy" has to be prefaced by the word "baby", it's obvious the parents were not serious about what they were getting into and thought having a kid was a big joke.

What kid deserves that? None.

Revolution said:

What was Chris Rock's line? Sure, you can raise a kid on your own, but no amount of discipline works like "Wait till I tell your father"....

It worked with me....

strmn said:

dannyd5050 said:

I say yes. Fathers teach the things that the mother probably can't. A father can teach you the parts of a car, how to swing a baseball bat or shoot a hoop. I father can teach you how to protect yourself against bullies. A father is someone that's ususally the cooler head when problems arise. And when a father tells you everything will be okay you usually believe it.

Are you serious?? Do you actually think that there is something biological about knowledge of auto mechanics?

[Edited 5/9/11 20:04pm]

No. But it's generally the father that these things are learned from. Do you not agree?

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

dannyd5050 said:

I say yes. Fathers teach the things that the mother probably can't. A father can teach you the parts of a car, how to swing a baseball bat or shoot a hoop. I father can teach you how to protect yourself against bullies. A father is someone that's ususally the cooler head when problems arise. And when a father tells you everything will be okay you usually believe it.

I was blessed to have and still have a good father in my life. Of course we've had our differences but the older I get the more I realize how much like my father I really am.

[Edited 5/9/11 19:49pm]

Ok, I get that fathers are important and I agree they are needed.

But your first paragraph is bullshit. I know how to fix a car, and I know it's parts. I also play basketball, as well as various other sports, have ever since grade 6. I can also defend myself physically and I deal with problems without getting hysterical. Men aren't the only ones who can do those things.

And I'm a woman.

[Edited 5/9/11 20:35pm]

It's not bullshit. And what the fuck is your point anyway? So what you know how to fix a car and it's parts or that you've played basketball since 6th grade. You must have had to teach all this shit to yourself because a father obviously didn't teach you. Or else your mom is a hell of a mechanic, athlete or martial arts expert. And where the hell did I say that only men could do these things? If you read again you'll see that I said fathers teach the things that mothers PROBABLY can't. Did you not see the word "PROBABLY"???

You contradict yourself. First you say that you "get" that fathers are important and agree that they're needed. But then you go spoutin' off about the things that you don't need a father to teach you. So in your opinion what the hell are fathers needed for?

Of course they are.........a lot of society's problems are due to broken homes.

Children need role models and need a loving and supportive environment.

Single parenting is not fair on the parent (too much work), or the child (neglect). Usually though its not the single parent's fault so you can't blame them...ie the bad one is the one that went off and left them to fend for themselves.

Some fathers do more damage than good. So do some mothers though.

dannyd5050 said:

strmn said:

Are you serious?? Do you actually think that there is something biological about knowledge of auto mechanics?

[Edited 5/9/11 20:04pm]

No. But it's generally the father that these things are learned from. Do you not agree?

I think you hold outdated views about men and women, and you confuse social roles, expectations, and blatant sexism with biological explanations about what is natural.

HotGritz said:

So...I ask you orgers...in your honest opinion....are fathers needed?

strmn said:

dannyd5050 said:

No. But it's generally the father that these things are learned from. Do you not agree?

I think you hold outdated views about men and women, and you confuse social roles, expectations, and blatant sexism with biological explanations about what is natural.

[img:$uid]http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/rebecca8273/hulka.jpg[/img:$uid]

strmn said:

dannyd5050 said:

No. But it's generally the father that these things are learned from. Do you not agree?

I think you hold outdated views about men and women, and you confuse social roles, expectations, and blatant sexism with biological explanations about what is natural.

I think you skirted around my question.

You know, this issue skirts on the edge of offensiveness considering that there are family combination that don't (and couldn't) have a mother involved one way or the other. Two gay men are not two bad parents smooshed together. Two lesbian women aren't two fantastic nurturers, etc. Are fathers really needed? Yeah, of course they are. So are mothers. Are they needed by each and every child? Only for the procreation part. Beyond that, it's all sociology.

And no, dad's do not teach their kids anything any better than a mother would. Vice versa. We're adults. This discussion is not, currently, in an adult space.

I also think this thread got hijacked quickly. This isn't the "Can anyone raise a child?" thread. The original question is "Are fathers really needed?"

fa·ther/ˈfäT͟Hər/

I think the other definition that needs to be posted is:

need: a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation

The father might be necessary on a biological basis as the one with the sperm and half the genetic code. But after that, pretty much anyone can do a bad or good job raising a child.

dannyd5050 said:

strmn said:

I think you hold outdated views about men and women, and you confuse social roles, expectations, and blatant sexism with biological explanations about what is natural.

I think you skirted around my question.

No, I didn't.

CallMeCarrie said:

I think the other definition that needs to be posted is:

need: a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation

The father might be necessary on a biological basis as the one with the sperm and half the genetic code. But after that, pretty much anyone can do a bad or good job raising a child.

Spinlight said:

Single parenting is fine, no matter the gender.

This.

Of course it is optimal to have two loving, capable parents.

But when that isn't possible one loving, capable parent can do a damn fine job.

CarrieMpls said:

Spinlight said:

Single parenting is fine, no matter the gender.

This.

Of course it is optimal to have two loving, capable parents.

But when that isn't possible one loving, capable parent can do a damn fine job.

...and since a father is the natural 2nd half to that, then the answer to the question "Are fathers really needed?" is a resounding YES!

I can tell you that mine certainly is needed. He's 79 and has been a great father and grandfather. He could give lessons - seriously.

dannyd5050 said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Ok, I get that fathers are important and I agree they are needed.

But your first paragraph is bullshit. I know how to fix a car, and I know it's parts. I also play basketball, as well as various other sports, have ever since grade 6. I can also defend myself physically and I deal with problems without getting hysterical. Men aren't the only ones who can do those things.

And I'm a woman.

[Edited 5/9/11 20:35pm]

It's not bullshit. And what the fuck is your point anyway? So what you know how to fix a car and it's parts or that you've played basketball since 6th grade. You must have had to teach all this shit to yourself because a father obviously didn't teach you. Or else your mom is a hell of a mechanic, athlete or martial arts expert. And where the hell did I say that only men could do these things? If you read again you'll see that I said fathers teach the things that mothers PROBABLY can't. Did you not see the word "PROBABLY"???

You contradict yourself. First you say that you "get" that fathers are important and agree that they're needed. But then you go spoutin' off about the things that you don't need a father to teach you. So in your opinion what the hell are fathers needed for?

Actually, neither parent taught me those things. I learnt mechanics in school, and things like sports, martial arts and the like you can learn from community schools/teams. That's where I learnt them. Both parents supported me, though.

And I do not contradict myself. As someone else said, you're using outdated views to distinguish why a mother and father are needed. I told you about what i can do because you made it seem that women cannot do these things.

Well, I believe it's important to have both female and male figure in one's childhood. Of course it's possible to raise a child well being a single parent, but for an optimal development of children I think both genders are needed (I'm not necessarily talking about biological parents, that's not the point).

[Edited 5/10/11 10:44am]