johnart said:

paintedlady said:

Transgender? Who cares! She is a woman!!! getting her ass beat the fuck up and she is just there, alert still in a corner.... those bitches walk away, you RUN! Will she still stand there if a chick walked up to her with a fucking machete?

You say I don't give a fuck about her situation??? How could you even ask me that, you think I'm some cold fucking animal?

Did she just get out of surgery? Could she not move? Enlighten me please.. because where I come from... gay, straight, punk-ass, brave, stupid, smart, black , white.....

you run or you get killed!!! .... did she think someone would help her? Is that why she stood there?

I don't get it... shit I grew up in a fucked up neighborhood and still live in the damn hood... I guess I've seen to much to stay. I run, no shame in it!

Do not read that like I do not empathize, I am just wondering when the instinct kicks in that we all have to protect yourself from harm and run away or hide.... something.

I watched the entire thing... its one thing to get beat once, I have NEVER seen attackers walk away, make a phone call, smoke a cigarette, drink some water... and come back, and the victim is STILL there!

She could have been killed John... killed! Not beaten.... actually killed.

I have seen this happen before, I have seen a woman killed before... I was a kid and I could not help... you have to flee... you have to...

Re-read my post.

re-read mine...

fight or flee shit.... don't sit there and wait to get killed.

You may not know how to fight... but you should know when to leave and go... its life or death at that point.

whistle said:

people love to talk about how they'd react in certain situations, but passive reactions to violence (both from victims and onlookers) are probably the rule rather than the exception in my experience.

That's bull. I've broken up plenty of fights before. Giving credence to being a coward doesn't make being cowardly acceptable.

Spinlight said:

paintedlady said:

Transgender? Who cares! She is a woman!!! getting her ass beat the fuck up and she is just there, alert still in a corner.... those bitches walk away, you RUN! Will she still stand there if a chick walked up to her with a fucking machete?

You say I don't give a fuck about her situation??? How could you even ask me that, you think I'm some cold fucking animal?

Did she just get out of surgery? Could she not move? Enlighten me please.. because where I come from... gay, straight, punk-ass, brave, stupid, smart, black , white.....

you run or you get killed!!! .... did she think someone would help her? Is that why she stood there?

I don't get it... shit I grew up in a fucked up neighborhood and still live in the damn hood... I guess I've seen to much to stay. I run, no shame in it!

Do not read that like I do not empathize, I am just wondering when the instinct kicks in that we all have to protect yourself from harm and run away or hide.... something.

I watched the entire thing... its one thing to get beat once, I have NEVER seen attackers walk away, make a phone call, smoke a cigarette, drink some water... and come back, and the victim is STILL there!

She could have been killed John... killed! Not beaten.... actually killed.

I have seen this happen before, I have seen a woman killed before... I was a kid and I could not help... you have to flee... you have to...

Sorry, but can we please move away from blaming the victim for not fighting back? There's a rack of motherfuckers there and 1 person, ONE PERSON, steps in to help and its a fucking elderly woman. So let's back off the whole, I can't believe its not butter type of shit because people react differently in general.

That being said, the attackers are the ones who cared she is trans. That's why they did it. They knew, the employees knew (which is why they didn't help and then ENCOURAGED the attackers to make a hasty exit), and everyone staring at her having a seizure knew that this is a transwoman and is probably dying in front of them.

I've read and seen all the same information you have and I don't know how you're making the assumption that "everyone" knew. The attackers knew, and I stand by everything I've said about that previously (ya know, they were wrong, violence is wrong, call the police if you have a problem, all that).

Spinlight said:

whistle said:

people love to talk about how they'd react in certain situations, but passive reactions to violence (both from victims and onlookers) are probably the rule rather than the exception in my experience.

That's bull. I've broken up plenty of fights before. Giving credence to being a coward doesn't make being cowardly acceptable.

That's you and a very small monority of other people (myself included). Its NOT the norm for people to get involved with random violence. Particularly in this day and age when it could very well get you killed. Again, I'm not defending the attackers, but I think you're putting some of your own beliefs unto all the other parties involved, expecting that everyone feels and acts the same as you.

paintedlady said:

johnart said:

Re-read my post.

re-read mine...

fight or flee shit.... don't sit there and wait to get killed.

You may not know how to fight... but you should know when to leave and go... its life or death at that point.

No, I'm serious, re-read mine. I know exactly what you've said.

How you don't think someone might not be in the frame of mind to think logically after being repeatedly kicked in the head escapes me, but that's OK.

My post was actually saying that you ARE empathizing, not what you are jumping to interpret it as.

Cerebus said:

Spinlight said:

Sorry, but can we please move away from blaming the victim for not fighting back? There's a rack of motherfuckers there and 1 person, ONE PERSON, steps in to help and its a fucking elderly woman. So let's back off the whole, I can't believe its not butter type of shit because people react differently in general.

That being said, the attackers are the ones who cared she is trans. That's why they did it. They knew, the employees knew (which is why they didn't help and then ENCOURAGED the attackers to make a hasty exit), and everyone staring at her having a seizure knew that this is a transwoman and is probably dying in front of them.

I've read and seen all the same information you have and I don't know how you're making the assumption that "everyone" knew. The attackers knew, and I stand by everything I've said about that previously (ya know, they were wrong, violence is wrong, call the police if you have a problem, all that).

Bullshit. The guy filming the video said that the fight was instigated because the transwoman went to use the ladies' bathroom and the 2 classy bitches in the video forced her out and attacked her.

paintedlady said:

johnart said:

Re-read my post.

re-read mine...

fight or flee shit.... don't sit there and wait to get killed.

You may not know how to fight... but you should know when to leave and go... its life or death at that point.

And I'm saying again that this is NOT how most people react. There are literally hundreds of thousands of videos on the internet that prove this very quickly. When someone is jumped a VAST majority of the time they fall to the ground and MAYBE throw their hands up around their hands. Learning to overcome those urges and stare straight into more oncoming punches is one of the reasons all types of fighters train so much.

Spinlight said:

whistle said:

people love to talk about how they'd react in certain situations, but passive reactions to violence (both from victims and onlookers) are probably the rule rather than the exception in my experience.

That's bull. I've broken up plenty of fights before. Giving credence to being a coward doesn't make being cowardly acceptable.

it wasn't an attempt to justify nonintervention, merely an observation.

Cerebus said:

Spinlight said:

That's bull. I've broken up plenty of fights before. Giving credence to being a coward doesn't make being cowardly acceptable.

That's you and a very small monority of other people (myself included). Its NOT the norm for people to get involved with random violence. Particularly in this day and age when it could very well get you killed. Again, I'm not defending the attackers, but I think you're putting some of your own beliefs unto all the other parties involved, expecting that everyone feels and acts the same as you.

You know what, I roll with a better crew of people then because that shit doesn't faze us and out here in San Francisco, you gotta fight off a lot of prejudice and bigotry all the time. Just because SF has a notorious gay culture doesn't mean it's all sunshine and roses. It could be a catty queen tryna claw someone's eyes out or a drunk hetero bum tryna sexually assault a transwoman/transman, who the fuck knows/cares.

They didn't help because they didn't give a fuck.

Spinlight said:

Cerebus said:

I've read and seen all the same information you have and I don't know how you're making the assumption that "everyone" knew. The attackers knew, and I stand by everything I've said about that previously (ya know, they were wrong, violence is wrong, call the police if you have a problem, all that).

Bullshit. The guy filming the video said that the fight was instigated because the transwoman went to use the ladies' bathroom and the 2 classy bitches in the video forced her out and attacked her.

So because the guy filming the video said that EVERYBODY heard him and decided the victim deserved a beating?

I don't want to watch it again...was there some folk laughing (maybe even the camera person?). WTF we're gonna say that's a hysterical reaction too?

To not jump in but call the cops I can probably accept. To not jump in, but fuckin TAPE something and tell folk they better go cause the cops on the way...fuck them.

johnart said:

paintedlady said:

re-read mine...

fight or flee shit.... don't sit there and wait to get killed.

You may not know how to fight... but you should know when to leave and go... its life or death at that point.

No, I'm serious, re-read mine. I know exactly what you've said.

How you don't think someone might not be in the frame of mind to think logically after being repeatedly kicked in the head escapes me, but that's OK.

My post was actually saying that you ARE empathizing, not what you are jumping to interpret it as.

Did she really think there was more danger outside? That would make sense.... but why not run behind a counter?

Lord... a seizure.... that old lady risked MUCH to help her. God bless the brave lady, she held them OFF... baddass!

Spinlight said:

Cerebus said:

That's you and a very small monority of other people (myself included). Its NOT the norm for people to get involved with random violence. Particularly in this day and age when it could very well get you killed. Again, I'm not defending the attackers, but I think you're putting some of your own beliefs unto all the other parties involved, expecting that everyone feels and acts the same as you.

You know what, I roll with a better crew of people then because that shit doesn't faze us and out here in San Francisco, you gotta fight off a lot of prejudice and bigotry all the time. Just because SF has a notorious gay culture doesn't mean it's all sunshine and roses. It could be a catty queen tryna claw someone's eyes out or a drunk hetero bum tryna sexually assault a transwoman/transman, who the fuck knows/cares.

They didn't help because they didn't give a fuck.

I completely agree that for whatever reason that may be true of some of them, I just don't think it matters what sex or sexual orientation the victim was, period.

And maybe you do roll with a better crew of people. Maybe you roll in safer neighborhoods. Or maybe you and your friends, like me, just don't give a fuck. But since I removed myself from a large group of "friends" about a decade ago I can say with complete certainty that MAYBE 2 or 3 of the 50 or so people I currently hang with on a regular basis have EVER been in a fight. The rest of them wouldn't have the slightest idea what to do if they saw something like that beyond getting the hell out of the way so they didn't get hurt.

paintedlady said:

johnart said:

No, I'm serious, re-read mine. I know exactly what you've said.

How you don't think someone might not be in the frame of mind to think logically after being repeatedly kicked in the head escapes me, but that's OK.

My post was actually saying that you ARE empathizing, not what you are jumping to interpret it as.

Did she really think there was more danger outside? That would make sense.... but why not run behind a counter?

Lord... a seizure.... that old lady risked MUCH to help her. God bless the brave lady, she held them OFF... baddass!

Honey, I don't think she had the frame of mind to think. This is what I'm saying. KICKED. TO. THE. HEAD. SEVERELY.

That older lady is a fuckin rock-star. She didn't give a fuck. Those 2 beasts coulda fucked her up too.

Cerebus said:

Spinlight said:

Bullshit. The guy filming the video said that the fight was instigated because the transwoman went to use the ladies' bathroom and the 2 classy bitches in the video forced her out and attacked her.

So because the guy filming the video said that EVERYBODY heard him and decided the victim deserved a beating?

I'm not going to engage in this kind of discussion any longer. Keep making excuses all you want. I'm aware of what a hate crime looks like and I don't even NEED the benefit of that fucking moron's facebook status.

I feel the same way every time I see one of those videos of arab people stoning young girls to death because they aren't virgins. Ever see that one video that came out maybe 3 years ago? The whole town crowded around as 1 guy filmed it with his phone and they threw rocks at her and kicked her, a 15-16 year old girl, till one of them walked up with a big ass fucking rock the size of a watermelon and dropped it on her head. She started jerking and seizing like it was a fucking joke, it was that serious. Her brain was THAT fucked from the impact.

So no, I don't feel any compassion or remorse for people who will do this to a person and I don't find it necessary to try to give a person an easy out. I'm sorry if you feel that's not what you are doing, but you are. The guy admitted they all knew, he STATED why the fight HAPPENED (he WAS THERE). Frankly, I don't need to pretend like people just sat around staring cuz they didn't know what to do. An old. Ass. LADY. jumped in. Does that old lady look ghetto? NO. Does she look like a fucking police officer or in any way battle-hardened? NO. She is an old ass defenseless woman, defending a young ass defenseless woman who is being mercilessly and brutally beaten. Period. Anyone who didn't step in and help is a coward and deserves the same fate those two animals that did it deserve.

BAM!

[img:$uid]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lif4psj27u1qhxckbo1_500.gif[/img:$uid]

Cerebus said:

paintedlady said:

re-read mine...

fight or flee shit.... don't sit there and wait to get killed.

You may not know how to fight... but you should know when to leave and go... its life or death at that point.

And I'm saying again that this is NOT how most people react. There are literally hundreds of thousands of videos on the internet that prove this very quickly. When someone is jumped a VAST majority of the time they fall to the ground and MAYBE throw their hands up around their hands. Learning to overcome those urges and stare straight into more oncoming punches is one of the reasons all types of fighters train so much.

Not in my experiences of what I saw growing up...

you get hit once, you try to run.... IF you know no one will help.

If you think people will stop the fight and you feel no real sense of danger you stand there waiting for help to arrive.

Its why most children that are the youngest in any family are the shit talkers that can't fight.... because they got an older sibling that will play bodyguard.

I think this person probably thought someone would stop the attack? But after getting hit repeatedly... you flee... you don't stay.

I really wonder if there was a mob of folks outside waiting to hurt her more? This is one factor I wonder about.

Cerebus said:

Spinlight said:

You know what, I roll with a better crew of people then because that shit doesn't faze us and out here in San Francisco, you gotta fight off a lot of prejudice and bigotry all the time. Just because SF has a notorious gay culture doesn't mean it's all sunshine and roses. It could be a catty queen tryna claw someone's eyes out or a drunk hetero bum tryna sexually assault a transwoman/transman, who the fuck knows/cares.

They didn't help because they didn't give a fuck.

I completely agree that for whatever reason that may be true of some of them, I just don't think it matters what sex or sexual orientation the victim was, period.

And maybe you do roll with a better crew of people. Maybe you roll in safer neighborhoods. Or maybe you and your friends, like me, just don't give a fuck. But since I removed myself from a large group of "friends" about a decade ago I can say with complete certainty that MAYBE 2 or 3 of the 50 or so people I currently hang with on a regular basis have EVER been in a fight. The rest of them wouldn't have the slightest idea what to do if they saw something like that beyond getting the hell out of the way so they didn't get hurt.

...and that's it. people talk tough but 99% of them are. not. ready. when the stuff really hits the fan. the shocked reaction to the video only underlines that.

Spinlight said:

Cerebus said:

So because the guy filming the video said that EVERYBODY heard him and decided the victim deserved a beating?

I'm not going to engage in this kind of discussion any longer. Keep making excuses all you want. I'm aware of what a hate crime looks like and I don't even NEED the benefit of that fucking moron's facebook status.

I feel the same way every time I see one of those videos of arab people stoning young girls to death because they aren't virgins. Ever see that one video that came out maybe 3 years ago? The whole town crowded around as 1 guy filmed it with his phone and they threw rocks at her and kicked her, a 15-16 year old girl, till one of them walked up with a big ass fucking rock the size of a watermelon and dropped it on her head. She started jerking and seizing like it was a fucking joke, it was that serious. Her brain was THAT fucked from the impact.

So no, I don't feel any compassion or remorse for people who will do this to a person and I don't find it necessary to try to give a person an easy out. I'm sorry if you feel that's not what you are doing, but you are. The guy admitted they all knew, he STATED why the fight HAPPENED (he WAS THERE). Frankly, I don't need to pretend like people just sat around staring cuz they didn't know what to do. An old. Ass. LADY. jumped in. Does that old lady look ghetto? NO. Does she look like a fucking police officer or in any way battle-hardened? NO. She is an old ass defenseless woman, defending a young ass defenseless woman who is being mercilessly and brutally beaten. Period. Anyone who didn't step in and help is a coward and deserves the same fate those two animals that did it deserve.

BAM!

[img:$uid]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lif4psj27u1qhxckbo1_500.gif[/img:$uid]

I think Cerebus is trying to make a point from a different angle rather than make excuses for folk, but I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded part.

If folk had ran off to avoid this I'd be like yeah, they were afraid, but I'm sorry, you can't sit around and watch some fuckin savagery like that and not be an animal on some level.

BAM!

whistle said:

Cerebus said:

I completely agree that for whatever reason that may be true of some of them, I just don't think it matters what sex or sexual orientation the victim was, period.

And maybe you do roll with a better crew of people. Maybe you roll in safer neighborhoods. Or maybe you and your friends, like me, just don't give a fuck. But since I removed myself from a large group of "friends" about a decade ago I can say with complete certainty that MAYBE 2 or 3 of the 50 or so people I currently hang with on a regular basis have EVER been in a fight. The rest of them wouldn't have the slightest idea what to do if they saw something like that beyond getting the hell out of the way so they didn't get hurt.

...and that's it. people talk tough but 99% of them are. not. ready. when the stuff really hits the fan. the shocked reaction to the video only underlines that.

the manager holds them off a bit... a black woman in the blue shirt....

did she leave to call the police?

johnart said:

Spinlight said:

I'm not going to engage in this kind of discussion any longer. Keep making excuses all you want. I'm aware of what a hate crime looks like and I don't even NEED the benefit of that fucking moron's facebook status.

I feel the same way every time I see one of those videos of arab people stoning young girls to death because they aren't virgins. Ever see that one video that came out maybe 3 years ago? The whole town crowded around as 1 guy filmed it with his phone and they threw rocks at her and kicked her, a 15-16 year old girl, till one of them walked up with a big ass fucking rock the size of a watermelon and dropped it on her head. She started jerking and seizing like it was a fucking joke, it was that serious. Her brain was THAT fucked from the impact.

So no, I don't feel any compassion or remorse for people who will do this to a person and I don't find it necessary to try to give a person an easy out. I'm sorry if you feel that's not what you are doing, but you are. The guy admitted they all knew, he STATED why the fight HAPPENED (he WAS THERE). Frankly, I don't need to pretend like people just sat around staring cuz they didn't know what to do. An old. Ass. LADY. jumped in. Does that old lady look ghetto? NO. Does she look like a fucking police officer or in any way battle-hardened? NO. She is an old ass defenseless woman, defending a young ass defenseless woman who is being mercilessly and brutally beaten. Period. Anyone who didn't step in and help is a coward and deserves the same fate those two animals that did it deserve.

BAM!

[img:$uid]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lif4psj27u1qhxckbo1_500.gif[/img:$uid]

I think Cerebus is trying to make a point from a different angle rather than make excuses for folk, but I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded part.

If folk had ran off to avoid this I'd be like yeah, they were afraid, but I'm sorry, you can't sit around and watch some fuckin savagery like that and not be an animal on some level.

BAM!

Yes, I was trying. I certainly don't think I was doing what spin thinks I was doing. I never have and never would.

Also, I think part of what you guys are saying is wishful thinking as I'm 100% certain that you know this kind of thing happens all the time, in MANY different types of situations.

Damn. And it just HAD to be in my city (or county, actually).

I'm still trying to find out the motive, though I really hope it's not because she is transgender. That alone should justify the book being thrown at 'em. I mean, did she steal their man or something and finally exposed him to be on the down low??

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Damn. And it just HAD to be in my city (or county, actually).

I'm still trying to find out the motive, though I really hope it's not because she is transgender. That alone should justify the book being thrown at 'em. I mean, did she steal their man or something and finally exposed him to be on the down low??

Short of someone killin ur mama I can't really think what would justify such a savage attack.

Even if the trans lady had been an indignant asshole and started with them.

Cerebus said:

johnart said:

I think Cerebus is trying to make a point from a different angle rather than make excuses for folk, but I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded part.

If folk had ran off to avoid this I'd be like yeah, they were afraid, but I'm sorry, you can't sit around and watch some fuckin savagery like that and not be an animal on some level.

BAM!

Yes, I was trying. I certainly don't think I was doing what spin thinks I was doing. I never have and never would.

Also, I think part of what you guys are saying is wishful thinking as I'm 100% certain that you know this kind of thing happens all the time, in MANY different types of situations.

True, everyone is different.... but I have witnessed much in regards to physical beatings, and only people who stay and let the beatings happen are usually victims of domestic violence.

That's a different situation but the same fight or flee rules you describe play out in those situations more so than when strangers attack a random person.

So many variables, and yeah... we don't know what the victim's frame of mind... its so sad to witness though... I hate seeing stuff like this happen.

johnart said:

alexnvrmnd777 said:

Damn. And it just HAD to be in my city (or county, actually).

I'm still trying to find out the motive, though I really hope it's not because she is transgender. That alone should justify the book being thrown at 'em. I mean, did she steal their man or something and finally exposed him to be on the down low??

Short of someone killin ur mama I can't really think what would justify such a savage attack.

Even if the trans lady had been an indignant asshole and started with them.

True.

Okay, I just read the rest of this thread, and I see there's an alleged reason for the violence. A stupid ass reason, but one nonetheless. The violence is one thing and completely deplorable. The apathy from the bystanders and even some chuckles is what's most disturbing. If the customers didn't do anything, the workers damn sure should've! Even if it was just for pure business reasons alone, let alone for caring for another human being. If I owned or managed a store, I'd want my customers to feel as safe as possible. You lose business if people don't feel your environment is safe enough to be in (but then again, that doesn't explain all of the McDonalds and other little shops in the bad neighborhoods, so maybe I'm wrong; ). You mean to tell me there wasn't anyone working there who could pull a 14 year old and an 18 year old off of this person?? Riiiight.

And don't even get me started on the idiot filming this, who saw it only as entertainment to post to his Youtube and Facebook pages. I know it sounds evil, but I can't wait for the day that he needs some emergency help out in the middle of the street somewhere and NO ONE wants to stop and help and deal with him.

paintedlady said:

Cerebus said:

Yes, I was trying. I certainly don't think I was doing what spin thinks I was doing. I never have and never would.

Also, I think part of what you guys are saying is wishful thinking as I'm 100% certain that you know this kind of thing happens all the time, in MANY different types of situations.

True, everyone is different.... but I have witnessed much in regards to physical beatings, and only people who stay and let the beatings happen are usually victims of domestic violence.

That's a different situation but the same fight or flee rules you describe play out in those situations more so than when strangers attack a random person.

So many variables, and yeah... we don't know what the victim's frame of mind... its so sad to witness though... I hate seeing stuff like this happen.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on some of this. But I mean that in the most peaceful and unagressive way possible.

Seriously though (and this is some shit I almost never talk about, with anyone!), in a past that I'm none too proud of I ran up on more than a couple of big mean mf's and their immediate reaction was to drop and protect themselves. Only once did anybody run, and only then because they were getting beat with a golf club. If you can see somebody coming and you've got someplace to run, sure, it makes sense. But if you're surprised or have no place to go...

alexnvrmnd777 said:

And don't even get me started on the idiot filming this, who saw it only as entertainment to post to his Youtube and Facebook pages. I know it sounds evil, but I can't wait for the day that he needs some emergency help out in the middle of the street somewhere and NO ONE wants to stop and help and deal with him.

I think I misunderstood this part to begin with, so my apologies in that regard. That guy deserves his own special type of "reward".

alexnvrmnd777 said:

johnart said:

Short of someone killin ur mama I can't really think what would justify such a savage attack.

Even if the trans lady had been an indignant asshole and started with them.

True.

Okay, I just read the rest of this thread, and I see there's an alleged reason for the violence. A stupid ass reason, but one nonetheless. The violence is one thing and completely deplorable. The apathy from the bystanders and even some chuckles is what's most disturbing.

I thought I heard those but didn't go back because I just didn't want to watch that again.

Most disturbing to me as well.

johnart said:

Lammie mentioned understanding how someone might be afraid to jump in...I'm sorry, I cannot, not in the least...I don't think I could stand by, no matter how much I was shitting my pants, and watch someone get their head kicked in.

That's a fair comment, John. I have a ton of respect for that, and I'd like to think I'd have the balls to jump in and help in a situation like this too. We hear stories often, though, about people losing their lives trying to defend others in fights like this, and I suspect a lot of bystanders in situations like this internalize those stories and automatically kick into self-preservation mode, for better or worse.

Lammastide said:

johnart said:

Lammie mentioned understanding how someone might be afraid to jump in...I'm sorry, I cannot, not in the least...I don't think I could stand by, no matter how much I was shitting my pants, and watch someone get their head kicked in.

That's a fair comment, John. I have a ton of respect for that, and I'd like to think I'd have the balls to jump in and help in a situation like this too. We hear stories often, though, about people losing their lives trying to defend others in fights like this, and I suspect a lot of bystanders in situations like this internalize those stories and automatically kick into self-preservation mode, for better or worse.

BTW I didn't mean "Lammie said" as in calling u out, I just meant "Lammie said". And not judging what you said, just that seriously, unless something uncontrollable kicked in in my body, I would have to be involved in trying to help in some way. Foolish a move as it may be.

I don't always have best judgment. I will mouth back as some ignorance even when something in me tells me "JOHN SHUT THE FUCK UP THAT DUDE IS TOO HUGE".

Lammastide said:

johnart said:

Lammie mentioned understanding how someone might be afraid to jump in...I'm sorry, I cannot, not in the least...I don't think I could stand by, no matter how much I was shitting my pants, and watch someone get their head kicked in.

That's a fair comment, John. I have a ton of respect for that, and I'd like to think I'd have the balls to jump in and help in a situation like this too. We hear stories often, though, about people losing their lives trying to defend others in fights like this, and I suspect a lot of bystanders in situations like this internalize those stories and automatically kick into self-preservation mode, for better or worse.

Exactly. And we hear of just as many stories where people stand by and do absolutely nothing. I will say again, the internet is overrun with these videos.