I don't care if there is no season next year. The Titans need that extra time to get their organization together, lol.

Adisa said:

SonOfSoul said:

Really? You get paid millions at your job? Cool, hook me up.

No I don't and neither do a lot of the players in the league (just like not all the owner are rolling dough due to the franchises they own). Like any other job the average employee (player) earns market value. And like any other job bosses are gonna do what they are the ones that reap the lion's share while juggling to stay in business.

Ok, so do you make $500,000? $250,000? Hell, $175,000? Probably not. So there's no way in hell you can say professional sports is like "any other job" because it's not. But that's neither here nor there, my point is, for a pro athlete to claim he's in "modern-day slavery" is some stupid shit, and anyone that believes the same as he does is on some stupid shit.

SonOfSoul said:

Adisa said:

No I don't and neither do a lot of the players in the league (just like not all the owner are rolling dough due to the franchises they own). Like any other job the average employee (player) earns market value. And like any other job bosses are gonna do what they are the ones that reap the lion's share while juggling to stay in business.

Ok, so do you make $500,000? $250,000? Hell, $175,000? Probably not. So there's no way in hell you can say professional sports is like "any other job" because it's not. But that's neither here nor there, my point is, for a pro athlete to claim he's in "modern-day slavery" is some stupid shit, and anyone that believes the same as he does is on some stupid shit.

Exactly. Professional sports is big-time entertainment - like I posted earlier, no different than Hollywood or the music industry. "Just another job"? Nonsense.

I agree with Jersey's comment completely. No matter what the facts are its hard to have any empathy for either side. Even the lowest paid players are getting to live a dream that many other people would PAY to experience. That being said, it boils down pretty simply for me....

1. If the owners want the players to take a pay cut they need to open their books and show why they think its necessary.

2. The players have a right to fight the pay cut if a SOLID reason for it is not presented. Would you take a pay cut if every visible indication was that the company you work for was making money hand over fist?

3. If/when the finacials the Players Association requested are presented, if they show the owners motive is strictly profit based, no pay cuts should take place.

4. If they show the league is losing money, a new wage scale should be negotiated.

------------------------------------------------------

Secondary to that...

If the books show teams or the league only breaking even or a downward trend, negotiations may be even more difficult than if it was a clear profit or loss issue.

I do side somewhat with the owners in regards to max salaries and a rookie pay scale.

I side with the players regarding better, extended health care and a better bottom tear pay scale.

A fund for retired players in need is a must.

Better revenue sharing, while certainly not something you can MAKE owners do, seems like an obvious way to maitain the health of the league.

SonOfSoul said:

Adisa said:

No I don't and neither do a lot of the players in the league (just like not all the owner are rolling dough due to the franchises they own). Like any other job the average employee (player) earns market value. And like any other job bosses are gonna do what they are the ones that reap the lion's share while juggling to stay in business.

Ok, so do you make $500,000? $250,000? Hell, $175,000? Probably not. So there's no way in hell you can say professional sports is like "any other job" because it's not. But that's neither here nor there, my point is, for a pro athlete to claim he's in "modern-day slavery" is some stupid shit, and anyone that believes the same as he does is on some stupid shit.

If that’s your point then why the hell are you going back and forth with me? I’ve stated what I stated and provide my analysis, yet you keep cherrypicking about how much an athlete earns vs what other people earn. They earn market value, yes, just like any other job. Bless your lil heart.

[Edited 3/15/11 20:01pm]

phunkdaddy said:

SCNDLS said:

And how much was the stadium in NY? About $1.4 billion ($200 million MORE than Cowboys Stadium BUT we were smart enough to include a roof) AND ya'll needed a loan from the NFL to finish construction when you went over budget. Jerry got $300 mil from the city of Arlington but wrote a check for $1.1 billion of his own money to build the stadium. If he's fronting the costs he should reap the benefits.

Like it or not, players are employees and they are not forced to play. If you don't like your boss go get another job that will pay you as much. Good luck! The owners take the financial risks so it makes TOTAL sense they should get more money. Not saying the players shouldn't get something too. But it seems like the NFLPA are the ones who walked away from the table AFTER the league was willing to make many concessions and back off from the extra $1 billion down to a measly $325 million in added revenue. To force a lockout over that comparatively small amount of money when you got just about everything else is assinine.

The NFL said its offer included splitting the difference in the dispute over how much money owners should be given off the top of the league’s revenues. Under the expiring CBA, the owners immediately got about $1 billion before dividing the remainder of revenues with the players; the owners entered negotiations seeking to roughly double that.

But the owners eventually reduced that additional upfront demand to about $650 million. Then, on Friday, they offered to drop that to about $325 million. Smith said the union offered during talks to give up $550 million over the first four years of a new agreement—or an average of $137.5 million.

“We worked hard,” said NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who was joined at mediation on Thursday and Friday by nine of the 10 members of the owners’ powerful labor committee. “We didn’t reach an agreement, obviously. As you know, the union walked away from the mediation process.”

Also in the NFL’s offer, according to the league:

— Maintaining the 16 regular-season games and four preseason games for at least two years, with any switch to 18 games down the road being negotiable.

— Instituting a rookie wage scale through which money saved would be paid to veterans and retired players.

— Creating new year-round health and safety rules.

— Establishing a fund for retired players, with $82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years.

[Edited 3/12/11 13:29pm]

in a nutshell.

There are times though when the owners throw away money to marginal players.

to both of these posts.

Adisa said:

SonOfSoul said:

Ok, so do you make $500,000? $250,000? Hell, $175,000? Probably not. So there's no way in hell you can say professional sports is like "any other job" because it's not. But that's neither here nor there, my point is, for a pro athlete to claim he's in "modern-day slavery" is some stupid shit, and anyone that believes the same as he does is on some stupid shit.

If that’s your point then why the hell are you going back and forth with me? I’ve stated what I stated and provide my analysis, yet you keep cherrypicking about how much an athlete earns vs what other people earn. They earn market value, yes, just like any other job. Bless your lil heart.

[Edited 3/15/11 20:01pm]

YOU commented on MY post first., so YOU were the one that got it twisted. But to be so simpleminded and say it boils down to "market value" and NOT take into consideration THE DIFFERENCE IN VALUE between someone that works at Taco Bell and professional football player is some whole other stupid shit to even begin with. The bottomline is, it's NOT "like any other job" or else waiters would be making millions for waiting tables. Get it.

SonOfSoul said:

"Playing in the NFL is like modern-day slavery" - Remind me to pimp slap the shit out of Adrian Peterson the next time I see him.

I am not an NFL fan, but have you slapped Prince yet? Not the best choice of words on his part, but I hope you see where this is going.

Cerebus said:

2. The players have a right to fight the pay cut if a SOLID reason for it is not presented. Would you take a pay cut if every visible indication was that the company you work for was making money hand over fist?

...and the NFL is making money hand over fist. They can print money if they wanted to. This is nothing but a money grab by the owners. If the owners practiced better revenue sharing, this wouldn't be an issue.

If the players were wrong, I would say so, but they're not the bad guys here. It's the owners trying to pull a fast one.

Greed is interesting 2 watch.....................

angel345 said:

SonOfSoul said:

"Playing in the NFL is like modern-day slavery" - Remind me to pimp slap the shit out of Adrian Peterson the next time I see him.

I am not an NFL fan, but have you slapped Prince yet? Not the best choice of words on his part, but I hope you see where this is going.

Forget it, never mind.

uPtoWnNY said:

Cerebus said:

2. The players have a right to fight the pay cut if a SOLID reason for it is not presented. Would you take a pay cut if every visible indication was that the company you work for was making money hand over fist?

...and the NFL is making money hand over fist. They can print money if they wanted to. This is nothing but a money grab by the owners. If the owners practiced better revenue sharing, this wouldn't be an issue.

If the players were wrong, I would say so, but they're not the bad guys here. It's the owners trying to pull a fast one.

But how is that different than ANY other money making enterprise or industry??? If I work for Bank of America and can SEE and VERIFY from their financial records that they are making more money than last year, yet they don't give me a raise or bonus, I have NO recourse and can't demand that they give me more money. The only choices I have are to stay for the current pay or quit and find a better paying job.

In contrast, the players actually got MOST of their demands which woulda prolly been a wash with the extra money the league wanted.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:10am]

SCNDLS said:

But how is that different than ANY other money making enterprise or industry??? If I work for Bank of America and can SEE and VERIFY from their financial records that they are making more money than last year, yet they don't give me a raise or bonus, I have NO recourse and can't demand that they give me more money. The only choices I have are to stay for the current pay or quit and find a better paying job.

The NFL players want to keep the status quo. They didn't initiate this mess, the owners did. Like I keep, saying, forget the players, it's big market owners vs. small market owners.

uPtoWnNY said:

SCNDLS said:

But how is that different than ANY other money making enterprise or industry??? If I work for Bank of America and can SEE and VERIFY from their financial records that they are making more money than last year, yet they don't give me a raise or bonus, I have NO recourse and can't demand that they give me more money. The only choices I have are to stay for the current pay or quit and find a better paying job.

The NFL players want to keep the status quo. They didn't initiate this mess, the owners did. Like I keep, saying, forget the players, it's big market owners vs. small market owners.

How is it not about the players? And how is it maintaining the status quo when the players had demands of their own which the NFL agreed to?

"As was clear all along, the dispute came down to money. In the end, it appeared the sides were about $185 million apart on how much owners should get up front each season for certain operating expenses before splitting the rest of the revenues with players — a far cry from the $1 billion that separated the sides for months.

But the union refused to budge any further without getting detailed financial information for each team."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/a..._nfl_labor

SonOfSoul said:

Adisa said:

If that’s your point then why the hell are you going back and forth with me? I’ve stated what I stated and provide my analysis, yet you keep cherrypicking about how much an athlete earns vs what other people earn. They earn market value, yes, just like any other job. Bless your lil heart.

[Edited 3/15/11 20:01pm]

YOU commented on MY post first., so YOU were the one that got it twisted. But to be so simpleminded and say it boils down to "market value" and NOT take into consideration THE DIFFERENCE IN VALUE between someone that works at Taco Bell and professional football player is some whole other stupid shit to even begin with. The bottomline is, it's NOT "like any other job" or else waiters would be making millions for waiting tables. Get it.

You can't see the forrest from the dollar signs, and I'm the one being simple-minded? Thats cool. I understand where you're coming from.

Have a good day.

Furthermore, I'd bet all my shoes that after going to court, losing the preseason, and possibly some regular season is gonna get the players NATHAN. I seriously doubt that when the smoke clears they'll get a better deal than what was on the table when negotiations stopped.

SCNDLS said:

uPtoWnNY said:

...and the NFL is making money hand over fist. They can print money if they wanted to. This is nothing but a money grab by the owners. If the owners practiced better revenue sharing, this wouldn't be an issue.

If the players were wrong, I would say so, but they're not the bad guys here. It's the owners trying to pull a fast one.

But how is that different than ANY other money making enterprise or industry??? If I work for Bank of America and can SEE and VERIFY from their financial records that they are making more money than last year, yet they don't give me a raise or bonus, I have NO recourse and can't demand that they give me more money. The only choices I have are to stay for the current pay or quit and find a better paying job.

In contrast, the players actually got MOST of their demands which woulda prolly been a wash with the extra money the league wanted.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:10am]

No no. It's different because these guys are athletes, with super human powers that 99% of us don't have. And they make 6 figures and above. So your point is waaaayyyy off, here. There's just no comparison. All of your acumen on business and organizational structure is useless when discussing pro athletes. BE GONE, WOMAN!

Adisa said:

SCNDLS said:

But how is that different than ANY other money making enterprise or industry??? If I work for Bank of America and can SEE and VERIFY from their financial records that they are making more money than last year, yet they don't give me a raise or bonus, I have NO recourse and can't demand that they give me more money. The only choices I have are to stay for the current pay or quit and find a better paying job.

In contrast, the players actually got MOST of their demands which woulda prolly been a wash with the extra money the league wanted.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:10am]

No no. It's different because these guys are athletes, with super human powers that 99% of us don't have. And they make 6 figures and above. So your point is waaaayyyy off, here. There's just no comparison. All of your acumen on business and organizational structure is useless when discussing pro athletes. BE GONE, WOMAN!

What was I thinking???

But for real, this idea that the people who OWN the shit are outta order for wanting to keep more money for themselves is funny to me cuz that kinda logic is not applied in any business model I've heard of.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:40am]

angel345 said:

SonOfSoul said:

"Playing in the NFL is like modern-day slavery" - Remind me to pimp slap the shit out of Adrian Peterson the next time I see him.

I am not an NFL fan, but have you slapped Prince yet? Not the best choice of words on his part, but I hope you see where this is going.

I'da slapped P's ass, too!

Adisa said:

SonOfSoul said:

YOU commented on MY post first., so YOU were the one that got it twisted. But to be so simpleminded and say it boils down to "market value" and NOT take into consideration THE DIFFERENCE IN VALUE between someone that works at Taco Bell and professional football player is some whole other stupid shit to even begin with. The bottomline is, it's NOT "like any other job" or else waiters would be making millions for waiting tables. Get it.

You can't see the forrest from the dollar signs, and I'm the one being simple-minded? Thats cool. I understand where you're coming from.

Have a good day.

The thing is, you're looking for the forest yet you're in the desert - just ALL lost and shit . Deuces.

I have to say......I'm looking foward to a year without football. Sorry boys.

TotalANXiousNESS said:

I have to say......I'm looking foward to a year without football. Sorry boys.

Booooo!

SCNDLS said:

Adisa said:

No no. It's different because these guys are athletes, with super human powers that 99% of us don't have. And they make 6 figures and above. So your point is waaaayyyy off, here. There's just no comparison. All of your acumen on business and organizational structure is useless when discussing pro athletes. BE GONE, WOMAN!

What was I thinking???

But for real, this idea that the people who OWN the shit are outta order for wanting to keep more money for themselves is funny to me cuz that kinda logic is not applied in any business model I've heard of.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:40am]

Those athletes are doing those owners a tremendous favor! Hell, they are doing you a tremendous favor, too, with your average self. They are above any and all business principles...the NFL is NOT like any other business, because their employees give so much hope and meaning to everyone, including God himself. So what if a lot of the owners are struggling to even keep their teams operating. Tough titty! They should increase the sales of tickets that us poor sub-humans have to purchase. If we can't afford them then we should get a special job, with greater market value. If we can't, then we should just support those players, and help them in their cause to be overpaid while they underperform. BE GONE, WOMAN!

Adisa said:

SCNDLS said:

What was I thinking???

But for real, this idea that the people who OWN the shit are outta order for wanting to keep more money for themselves is funny to me cuz that kinda logic is not applied in any business model I've heard of.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:40am]

Those athletes are doing those owners a tremendous favor! Hell, they are doing you a tremendous favor, too, with your average self. They are above any and all business principles...the NFL is NOT like any other business, because their employees give so much hope and meaning to everyone, including God himself. So what if a lot of the owners are struggling to even keep their teams operating. Tough titty! They should increase the sales of tickets that us poor sub-humans have to purchase. If we can't afford them then we should get a special job, with greater market value. If we can't, then we should just support those players, and help them in their cause to be overpaid while they underperform. BE GONE, WOMAN!

Next time Shell Oil cuts the training budget by 75% (despite record earnings) so the managers can get their bonuses, I'll be sure to let them know the error of their ways.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:56am]

TotalANXiousNESS said:

I have to say......I'm looking foward to a year without football. Sorry boys.

Oh, there'll be football. The college games! I haven't been keeping up with all the speculation but I heard there's rumblings of airing or moving some of the college games on Sundays. I don't like that idea at all, though, and doubt it would happen.

SonOfSoul said:

Adisa said:

You can't see the forrest from the dollar signs, and I'm the one being simple-minded? Thats cool. I understand where you're coming from.

Have a good day.

The thing is, you're looking for the forest yet you're in the desert - just ALL lost and shit . Deuces.

SCNDLS said:

Adisa said:

Those athletes are doing those owners a tremendous favor! Hell, they are doing you a tremendous favor, too, with your average self. They are above any and all business principles...the NFL is NOT like any other business, because their employees give so much hope and meaning to everyone, including God himself. So what if a lot of the owners are struggling to even keep their teams operating. Tough titty! They should increase the sales of tickets that us poor sub-humans have to purchase. If we can't afford them then we should get a special job, with greater market value. If we can't, then we should just support those players, and help them in their cause to be overpaid while they underperform. BE GONE, WOMAN!

Next time Shell Oil cuts the training budget by 75% (despite record earnings) so the managers can get their bonuses, I'll be sure to let them know the error of their ways.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:56am]

See there you go again! You can't compare Shell to the NFL. Gas? Gas? Well, on second thought maybe you can compare the two. I'm sure Shell, like Dell Inc. where I used to work, has tons of employees that make well into 6 figures. See, these jobs are special, and they have different way of doing things than say, Taco Bell. They are not like any othe job. So, you may be onto something here.

But just in case you're not...

Adisa said:

SCNDLS said:

Next time Shell Oil cuts the training budget by 75% (despite record earnings) so the managers can get their bonuses, I'll be sure to let them know the error of their ways.

[Edited 3/16/11 9:56am]

See there you go again! You can't compare Shell to the NFL. Gas? Gas? Well, on second thought maybe you can compare the two. I'm sure Shell, like Dell Inc. where I used to work, has tons of employees that make well into 6 figures. See, these jobs are special, and they have different way of doing things than say, Taco Bell. They are not like any othe job. So, you may be onto something here.

But just in case you're not...

SCNDLS said:

Furthermore, I'd bet all my shoes that after going to court, losing the preseason, and possibly some regular season is gonna get the players NATHAN. I seriously doubt that when the smoke clears they'll get a better deal than what was on the table when negotiations stopped.

Do you have any idea whats going on with this negotiation at all? The players aren't asking for MORE. They're refusing to take a PAY CUT. There was no deal on the table other than one that took money out of their pockets. As I asked previously, would YOU take a pay cut if you were sure that your company was rolling in profits?

SCNDLS said:

uPtoWnNY said:

...and the NFL is making money hand over fist. They can print money if they wanted to. This is nothing but a money grab by the owners. If the owners practiced better revenue sharing, this wouldn't be an issue.

If the players were wrong, I would say so, but they're not the bad guys here. It's the owners trying to pull a fast one.

But how is that different than ANY other money making enterprise or industry??? If I work for Bank of America and can SEE and VERIFY from their financial records that they are making more money than last year, yet they don't give me a raise or bonus, I have NO recourse and can't demand that they give me more money. The only choices I have are to stay for the current pay or quit and find a better paying job.

In contrast, the players actually got MOST of their demands which woulda prolly been a wash with the extra money the league wanted.

Again, you clearly don't understand what is happening. The players are being asked to take a PAY CUT. And they're being asked to do so while the consideration of two more games is being discussed. Not to mention the fact that there was NO signed deal that included ANY of the other demands they've made regarding health care (which BofA supplies, I know, because I worked there for quite a while). The players aren't demanding a raise, the OWNERS are. Its really quite simple.