Hello Org...or as I like to think of you my own personal Dear Abby these days. I come to you for advice. My 9 year old daughter is afraid to sleep in her own room and comes into our bedroom every night. Some nights it's at 1:00, some nights it is at 10:30. Some nights she cries and throws a fit, other nights she quietly grabs all of her blankets and her stuffed animals and comes in without a word. It used to be she would do this a couple of nights a week. Now, for almost two months it is every night.

I love my daughter. She is the only student in her class who made straight A's. She is bright and talented and darn near fearless in the daytime. She doesn't want to have a thing to do with us most of the time during the day. But as nighttime approaches, she gets more and more fearful. She can't do sleepovers, which is fine but I hate that she is missing out on some of the fun if those. She does not claim to have particularly bad dreams nor can articulate what she is afraid of, except that she says she doesn't like being alone. But our house is not that big and you can hear everyone from every room in the house.

We have discussed this with our family doctor who has been wonderful in his assessment of all her other aches and pains but has not had any particularly enlightening suggestions on this. Everything he suggests we've tried. First we tried incentives and success stickers and I even offered cash at one point. The we have tried restrictions but nothing positive or negative has worked. The doctor suggested Melatonin which is all natural so we thought it was okay and not like we are drugging her. Up to 3 Mg has no effect on her behavior and I'm weary to keep upping the dosage. I have been patient with her as best I can but I have also lost my temper a little. I have made sure to stress that it was not her we were upset with but her behavior and her lack of wanting to do better is what is the most frustrating. I am trying very hard to be delicate with he self-image...as I said she does so many wonderful things and I don't want to stigmatize her for this. I just want her to be better.

I know some of my wife and my stress probably spills over on her. We have two more weeks to come up with a solution before our mortgage goes into acceleration. We are feverishly trying to raise money to pay what we owe to save the hosue. But my daughter doesn't know anything about this. Or is she somehow picking up vibes...she has gotten worse over the last few months as all this has been going on. Or is she like Haley Joe Osment and she is seeing dead people walk around like regular people? I have gone on several sites where people talk about having children of varying ages who can't sleep but no one has any idea of what's causing it or what to do about it. So I thought I would consult the wise oracle I know as the Org

Any suggestions anyone or does anyone out have any children who went through this?

[Edited 2/23/11 20:15pm]

[Edited 2/23/11 20:16pm]

Nothinbutjoy said:

It is very likely that she is picking up on the stress y'all have related to the mortgage. Her not knowing anything about it may actually be the problem. She's 9 years old, not a baby, and her straight A's show she's no dummy. She's seeing & feeling the stress & strain, but doesn't know the cause, so maybe it has become a "Boogie Man" of sorts. In a way that is age appropriate, you & your wife know her best, explain to her what is going on, stressing that it is not her fault & that above all else, y'all have each other so things will be okay. If that isn't the problem, consult a doctor that specializes in sleeping disorders in children. Hope she rests peacefully soon. Best of luck to you and yours.

She has always had problems sleeping even before the house stuff so there definitely could be something there about making the problem worse but not neccessarily the cause. The specialist is probably our next step...or we can hope this is just one of those phases she grows out of.

Thank you for your comments.

BklynBabe said:

If you can hear everything in the house, then what makes you think she hasn't heard something and she's fearful of losing the house too... As for sleep I had the okay from my nephew's therapist and doctor to give him benadryl. His hyperactivity would keep him up at night (usually trying to play!) it helped a little. I put my foot down after his parents died, when he moved in with me he wanted to sleep with me or his grandma, I stood firm and said no. I knew if we gave in it would become an issue. I had to stop his dumbass sister from sleeping in the same bed earlier this year (why a 22 yr old would want to lay in the same small bed with a 10 yr old who may piss the bed is beyond me) before it became an issue again.

I guess the thing is that my daughter is not the kind who would keep it to herself if she knew something. She is very inquisitive and relentless in seeking information if she doesn't understand something so if she did overhear anything she probably would have asked us. Unless she doesn't understand what to ask. Or she is picking up something subliminal like radio waves. We have tried to put the foot down but she is so emotional it is hard. This is just one of those areas where I feel like I have completely screwed up as a parent.

GottaLetitgo said:

I know some of my wife and my stress probably spills over on her. We have two more weeks to come up with a solution before our mortgage goes into acceleration. We are feverishly trying to raise money to pay what we owe to save the hosue. But my daughter doesn't know anything about this. Or is she somehow picking up vibes...she has gotten worse over the last few months as all this has been going on.

I reckon this is it - she's picking up on it.

I wonder if explaining it to her in a way a child would understand, would help.

She would probably accept it - if you tell her worst case scenario and best case scenario - and that nothing will ever come between you guys as a family. Whatever happens is probably nowhere near as bad as her imagination can come up with! She'll probably be relieved.

ZombieKitten said:

GottaLetitgo said:

I know some of my wife and my stress probably spills over on her. We have two more weeks to come up with a solution before our mortgage goes into acceleration. We are feverishly trying to raise money to pay what we owe to save the hosue. But my daughter doesn't know anything about this. Or is she somehow picking up vibes...she has gotten worse over the last few months as all this has been going on.

I reckon this is it - she's picking up on it.

I wonder if explaining it to her in a way a child would understand, would help.

She would probably accept it - if you tell her worst case scenario and best case scenario - and that nothing will ever come between you guys as a family. Whatever happens is probably nowhere near as bad as her imagination can come up with! She'll probably be relieved.

We have a 50% chance or so of a favorable outcome...certain things have to break certain ways and the mortgage company would have to be true to their word that their main goal according to the letter is to "keep us in our home" I'll know over the next week and a lot of the stress will go out quickly one way or another. I don't want to tell her...it a lot of ways I am trying to be like my parents who said that many Christmases when I was growing up were due to last minute loans before my Dad discovered the wonderful world of data processing. I never knew any of that. I remember moving around a lot and living in some houses with bugs as big as my head but I don't remember ever stressing about it ot knowing about it. And, as my wife and I try to right our ship, I never wanted our children to know about it. And I thought we were doing a good job of it. Pride goeth before the fall I guess. I was a smart kid once, top of my gifted classes and whatnot, but maybe my daughter is just a whole hell of a lot more perceptive than I was. I did have my head up my posterior for a good part of my childhood. Maybe my child is just smarter.

Nothinbutjoy said:

You haven't completely screwed up. Kids don't come with instruction manuals. You & your wife are very engaged in her life. For that alone, you are a great parent. It's so hard when your child is struggling, but don't waste energy beating yourself up.

Appreciate that...this parenting stuff is some hard stuff. I sit down and talk to my children all the time, some sort of hybrid combination of my own father and Mike Brady. I try to spend quality time with them; I do all these things I think are right and then I see my poor little daughter sleeping on my floor and I'm like"Dude, you are the suckiest parent in the freaking world". Like any good parent (and there are many on the Org) I just want my children to be okay.

[Edited 2/23/11 23:09pm]

I remember a long time ago when I used to come on the Org and talk about Prince instead of my off the track life. Miss those days.

GottaLetitgo said:

GottaLetitgo said:

Maybe my child is just smarter.

well, she IS a girl child

you need to talk to her...

could be something happening at school and she is too afraid to talk about it

or.....

i hate to think / say....

do u let her go sleep overs, some ppl out there are evil..... my children are not aloud to go sleepovers.... ever

GottaLetitgo said:

I remember a long time ago when I used to come on the Org and talk about Prince instead of my off the track life. Miss those days.

we love you dear. it's okay. i wish i could wave a wand and fix the situation that is stressing you out.

i can't even ofer good advice because i'm not an expert on childhood behavior, but aside from the stress that your daughter might be picking up on from you and your wife, perhaps something has happened to her that she doesn't know how to talk about. a bully, or something

i will pray for your family's good health and good fortune in winning the lottery, or as near as can be

I agree with XxAxX...there may be something going on at school...have you spoken to her teachers, or perhaps there's a school pyschologist you can use as a resource?...

It's very unusual for a 9 year old to want to come into their parents bed, unless there is an insecurity about something. She knows that you wont kick her out, so in a way (not necessarily maliciously) she's manipulating you and your wife, because she knows she'll get her way. Try to keep your calm, and talk to her about why she feels the need to be in her parents room. Echoing what everyone else has said, maybe she has listened in (hiding just near the door perhaps) as you and your wife discuss your situation. She sounds like a terrfic kid, just let her know that you love her.

I'm against using melatonin 3mg in a child of 9. It is a chemical that should be in normal blood levels at her age, and it concerns me that that remedy was suggested because its "natural". You could try the antihistamine diphenhydramine, but again...a nanny was recently arrested because she was "doping" the 9 month she was watching because the drug would make the infant lethargic, and therefore easier to take care of. I know your daughter is older, but use medication for its appropriate condition, such as an allergy, at this age.

Believe it or not, warmed milk does work. Milk contains tryptophan, which when heated is converted into seratonin. Seratonin is the substance in our body which helps us fall asleep. The aforementioned melatonin mimics the action of seratonin.

I think a school psychologist would be a good first start.

I too believe it's the stress of the mortgage. I'm praying for you guys on that.

Yet I've read a few thousand stories on Shadowlands for me not to ask - could there be a presence in her room, specifically, that she's afraid of? There are a lot of stories like that out there. Just sayin'.

Anyway, let her know that no matter what - you are family and you will always be together. I was a terribly frightened kid myself and my parents were just plain too dumb to give me much needed reassurance. A kid needs that so badly.

[Edited 2/24/11 6:47am]

ZombieKitten said:

GottaLetitgo said:

Maybe my child is just smarter.

well, she IS a girl child

aww! yeah, don't beat yourself up. You and your wife are doing a great job! my question is does she sleep in her own room? or share a room?

ZombieKitten said:

GottaLetitgo said:

I remember a long time ago when I used to come on the Org and talk about Prince instead of my off the track life. Miss those days.

I don't remember that! I know you for maternity pants and was it the admiral??

Bless you for remembering AdmiralDisorder, the trusty sidekick of one CaptainChaos. Those two have been marooned on the Island of Swedish Flight Attendents for two long. I need to bring them back to the Org.

physco185 said:

you need to talk to her...

could be something happening at school and she is too afraid to talk about it

or.....

i hate to think / say....

do u let her go sleep overs, some ppl out there are evil..... my children are not aloud to go sleepovers.... ever

I have had so many conversations with hr on the whys...and then I will stop talking about it for a while wondering if talking about it makes it worse. Don't know which way to go with it.

As for the sleepovers, I agree with you that there are some evil people out there but my daughter has only had a very small number of sleepovers, the vast majority being with her cousin/my sister. Half of her sleepover attempts ended up with us going over to pick her back up because she will not sleep. The sleep problem has been a long-going one.

XxAxX said:

GottaLetitgo said:

I remember a long time ago when I used to come on the Org and talk about Prince instead of my off the track life. Miss those days.

we love you dear. it's okay. i wish i could wave a wand and fix the situation that is stressing you out.

i can't even ofer good advice because i'm not an expert on childhood behavior, but aside from the stress that your daughter might be picking up on from you and your wife, perhaps something has happened to her that she doesn't know how to talk about. a bully, or something

i will pray for your family's good health and good fortune in winning the lottery, or as near as can be

Don't think its a bully...she actually goes to school at my wife's school (she's a teacher) so she pretty much rules the hallways.

Thank you so much for your kind words.

GottaLetitgo said:

XxAxX said:

we love you dear. it's okay. i wish i could wave a wand and fix the situation that is stressing you out.

i can't even ofer good advice because i'm not an expert on childhood behavior, but aside from the stress that your daughter might be picking up on from you and your wife, perhaps something has happened to her that she doesn't know how to talk about. a bully, or something

i will pray for your family's good health and good fortune in winning the lottery, or as near as can be

Don't think its a bully...she actually goes to school at my wife's school (she's a teacher) so she pretty much rules the hallways.

Thank you so much for your kind words.

wonder what she is dreaming about???? hope you find out soon

BlackAdder7 said:

I agree with XxAxX...there may be something going on at school...have you spoken to her teachers, or perhaps there's a school pyschologist you can use as a resource?...

It's very unusual for a 9 year old to want to come into their parents bed, unless there is an insecurity about something. She knows that you wont kick her out, so in a way (not necessarily maliciously) she's manipulating you and your wife, because she knows she'll get her way. Try to keep your calm, and talk to her about why she feels the need to be in her parents room. Echoing what everyone else has said, maybe she has listened in (hiding just near the door perhaps) as you and your wife discuss your situation. She sounds like a terrfic kid, just let her know that you love her.

I'm against using melatonin 3mg in a child of 9. It is a chemical that should be in normal blood levels at her age, and it concerns me that that remedy was suggested because its "natural". You could try the antihistamine diphenhydramine, but again...a nanny was recently arrested because she was "doping" the 9 month she was watching because the drug would make the infant lethargic, and therefore easier to take care of. I know your daughter is older, but use medication for its appropriate condition, such as an allergy, at this age.

Believe it or not, warmed milk does work. Milk contains tryptophan, which when heated is converted into seratonin. Seratonin is the substance in our body which helps us fall asleep. The aforementioned melatonin mimics the action of seratonin.

I think a school psychologist would be a good first start.

She has spoken to her school counselor and the counselor gave her a success calendar and a promise of prizes and stuff if she even had a couple of good nights in a row. My daughter stopped trying after a couple of days.

I agree with you about the melatonin...we only gave her three mg for a couple of days and then I read somewhere that taking melatonin could possibly affect the body's production of it so we stopped.

I'll try the warm milk.

abigail05 said:

I too believe it's the stress of the mortgage. I'm praying for you guys on that.

Yet I've read a few thousand stories on Shadowlands for me not to ask - could there be a presence in her room, specifically, that she's afraid of? There are a lot of stories like that out there. Just sayin'.

Anyway, let her know that no matter what - you are family and you will always be together. I was a terribly frightened kid myself and my parents were just plain too dumb to give me much needed reassurance. A kid needs that so badly.

[Edited 2/24/11 6:47am]

Thank you for the prayers. As far as the presence thing I have asked her about bad dreams but also tried to determine whether she thinks she saw something like a ghost or something. When I was a child, I could have sworn I did see something out of the ordinary and ghostlike that scared the pee out of me for a couple of weeks. She says this is not the case though.

BklynBabe said:

I don't think you are screwed up at all! Raising a child is a crazy and hard situation sometimes that doesn't come with an instruction manual. You just do the best you can. The fact that you care is awesome!! *hug*

Thank you so much for the kind words...really appreciate it.

I feel so much more empathy for what my parents muct have went through now that I see it from this side of the table.

Shorty said:

aww! yeah, don't beat yourself up. You and your wife are doing a great job! my question is does she sleep in her own room? or share a room?

She has her own room. Which is right next door to her sister and six feet away from our room. We have talked about her sharing a room with her 5 year old sister (who sleeps like a log). That still may be an option we take.

GottaLetitgo said:

Shorty said:

aww! yeah, don't beat yourself up. You and your wife are doing a great job! my question is does she sleep in her own room? or share a room?

She has her own room. Which is right next door to her sister and six feet away from our room. We have talked about her sharing a room with her 5 year old sister (who sleeps like a log). That still may be an option we take.

good luck with it all! it is so hard when they cry and get emotional but...perhaps she just knows that you will give in. Perhaps taking the hard line of "no, you can not sleep in our room/bed anymore" will be the only thing that will eventually work. It may take a week or more but once she realizes the jig is up...maybe it will stop. (but I know you said she's always had an issue with sleeping) I dunno.