johnart said:

Efan said:

Cborgman and I were talking the other day about how we need to have an NYC meetup.

You need to bring this to it when we arrange it.

Bring?? Do you have an oven?

Well, of course. What do you think I am...a savage?

Efan said:

johnart said:

Bring?? Do you have an oven?

Well, of course. What do you think I am...a savage?

Just checking.

johnart said:

Efan said:

Well, of course. What do you think I am...a savage?

Just checking.

Don't mess with me...I drank waaaaaay too much tonight. Seeing and spelling correctly is a distinct challenge at this point.

Efan said:

johnart said:

Just checking.

Don't mess with me...I drank waaaaaay too much tonight. Seeing and spelling correctly is a distinct challenge at this point.

I been drankin too. (surprise surprise ) A little-LOT.

Do I look pretty tonight?

johnart said:

Efan said:

Don't mess with me...I drank waaaaaay too much tonight. Seeing and spelling correctly is a distinct challenge at this point.

I been drankin too. (surprise surprise ) A little-LOT.

Do I look pretty tonight?

your flushed cheeks are becoming

ZombieKitten said:

johnart said:

I been drankin too. (surprise surprise ) A little-LOT.

Do I look pretty tonight?

your flushed cheeks are becoming

Oh your jussshayinnnnthat.

johnart said:

ZombieKitten said:

your flushed cheeks are becoming

Oh your jussshayinnnnthat.

TonyVanDam said:

Efan said:

The pig is a totally amazing animal. I mean, we get pepperoni, ham, sausage, Canadian bacon, pork chops, hot dogs, and footballs all from this one animal. Absolutely amazing.

It's also amazing how someone can increase their chances of a heartattack from eating all of THAT^ pork.

In the meantime there are pork farmers strolling through the hills of Tuscany sipping on Red wine and enjoying coppa ham with an average life span of 80 years old.

It's not the pork itself rather than the cuts people choose to eat that increase their chances of heart attack, obesity, etc. If you're sitting around consuming nothing but fatty meats instead of lean proteins, of course your ass is going to spread and you'll end up putting undue stress on your heart. Where I live in Europe, pork is the most common protein of their cultural diet. However, that doesn't mean that people have to sit around eating fatty pork chops, short ribs, and pork belly all day

bbq short ribs

5 spice braised pork belley

There are lean, healthy choices out there in pork cuts, such as tenderloin, schnitzel or minute steaks, under 6% fat per serving.

The idea is to not oversalt and fry every piece of protein that goes into your mouth, and choose lean cuts over the fatty ones, in any type of meat.

exactly auntie Ottie

I love a nice lean pork steaklet

(sorry Dewrede )

I love a good pork roast with roasted potatoes, carrots and gravy.

Ottensen said:

TonyVanDam said:

It's also amazing how someone can increase their chances of a heartattack from eating all of THAT^ pork.

In the meantime there are pork farmers strolling through the hills of Tuscany sipping on Red wine and enjoying coppa ham with an average life span of 80 years old.

It's not the pork itself rather than the cuts people choose to eat that increase their chances of heart attack, obesity, etc. If you're sitting around consuming nothing but fatty meats instead of lean proteins, of course your ass is going to spread and you'll end up putting undue stress on your heart. Where I live in Europe, pork is the most common protein of their cultural diet. However, that doesn't mean that people have to sit around eating fatty pork chops, short ribs, and pork belly all day

bbq short ribs

5 spice braised pork belley

There are lean, healthy choices out there in pork cuts, such as tenderloin, schnitzel or minute steaks, under 6% fat per serving.

The idea is to not oversalt and fry every piece of protein that goes into your mouth, and choose lean cuts over the fatty ones, in any type of meat.

You think those old guys in Italy are eating lean pork?

The fat in the pork isn't the problem. That is a natural fat - of which your body needs a fair amount to function properly. And it doesn't cause a problem.

The problem is what you put on your pork chop or ribs. Breading. A sugary glaze. Stuffing. Gravy. Or that you eat commercial, processed pork products - sausages or hot dogs with lots of questionable ingredients added in. (I'm not talking about traditional, dry-cured sausages here, by the way. I'm talking about manufactured food.)

Genesia said:

Ottensen said:

In the meantime there are pork farmers strolling through the hills of Tuscany sipping on Red wine and enjoying coppa ham with an average life span of 80 years old.

It's not the pork itself rather than the cuts people choose to eat that increase their chances of heart attack, obesity, etc. If you're sitting around consuming nothing but fatty meats instead of lean proteins, of course your ass is going to spread and you'll end up putting undue stress on your heart. Where I live in Europe, pork is the most common protein of their cultural diet. However, that doesn't mean that people have to sit around eating fatty pork chops, short ribs, and pork belly all day

bbq short ribs

5 spice braised pork belley

There are lean, healthy choices out there in pork cuts, such as tenderloin, schnitzel or minute steaks, under 6% fat per serving.

The idea is to not oversalt and fry every piece of protein that goes into your mouth, and choose lean cuts over the fatty ones, in any type of meat.

You think those old guys in Italy are eating lean pork?

The fat in the pork isn't the problem. That is a natural fat - of which your body needs a fair amount to function properly. And it doesn't cause a problem.

The problem is what you put on your pork chop or ribs. Breading. A sugary glaze. Stuffing. Gravy. Or that you eat commercial, processed pork products - sausages or hot dogs with lots of questionable ingredients added in. (I'm not talking about traditional, dry-cured sausages here, by the way. I'm talking about manufactured food.)

Even WITHIN Italy there is a difference in rates of heart disease from north to south.

Those in the south tended to cook solely with olive oil whilst those in the north used butter as well.

Ultimately, it's smoking that is the Italians downfall, although after their ban on smoking in eating/public places, there was a notable difference in rates of smoking related heart disease.

I remember reading something about their genetics too, but can't find a relevant article now

XxAxX said:

weird. me too. no more sausage for me.

Darling, I thought we agreed to call "him" littleadder. not sausage. why do i always have to suffer because of oprah?

BlackAdder7 said:

XxAxX said:

weird. me too. no more sausage for me.

Darling, I thought we agreed to call "him" littleadder. not sausage. why do i always have to suffer because of oprah?

no sweetie, i was referring to the pig. you, my dear, are BIG Adder

They do have free range piggies. They treat them really good, pet their ears, give em good chow, not that corn crap and then they kill them.

Sausage, bacon, good italian ham, can't live without it.

ZombieKitten said:

Genesia said:

You think those old guys in Italy are eating lean pork?

The fat in the pork isn't the problem. That is a natural fat - of which your body needs a fair amount to function properly. And it doesn't cause a problem.

The problem is what you put on your pork chop or ribs. Breading. A sugary glaze. Stuffing. Gravy. Or that you eat commercial, processed pork products - sausages or hot dogs with lots of questionable ingredients added in. (I'm not talking about traditional, dry-cured sausages here, by the way. I'm talking about manufactured food.)

Even WITHIN Italy there is a difference in rates of heart disease from north to south.

Those in the south tended to cook solely with olive oil whilst those in the north used butter as well.

Ultimately, it's smoking that is the Italians downfall, although after their ban on smoking in eating/public places, there was a notable difference in rates of smoking related heart disease.

I remember reading something about their genetics too, but can't find a relevant article now

None of which has anything to do with pork. But okay.

Genesia said:

Ottensen said:

In the meantime there are pork farmers strolling through the hills of Tuscany sipping on Red wine and enjoying coppa ham with an average life span of 80 years old.

It's not the pork itself rather than the cuts people choose to eat that increase their chances of heart attack, obesity, etc. If you're sitting around consuming nothing but fatty meats instead of lean proteins, of course your ass is going to spread and you'll end up putting undue stress on your heart. Where I live in Europe, pork is the most common protein of their cultural diet. However, that doesn't mean that people have to sit around eating fatty pork chops, short ribs, and pork belly all day

bbq short ribs

5 spice braised pork belley

There are lean, healthy choices out there in pork cuts, such as tenderloin, schnitzel or minute steaks, under 6% fat per serving.

The idea is to not oversalt and fry every piece of protein that goes into your mouth, and choose lean cuts over the fatty ones, in any type of meat.

You think those old guys in Italy are eating lean pork?

The fat in the pork isn't the problem. That is a natural fat - of which your body needs a fair amount to function properly. And it doesn't cause a problem.

The problem is what you put on your pork chop or ribs. Breading. A sugary glaze. Stuffing. Gravy. Or that you eat commercial, processed pork products - sausages or hot dogs with lots of questionable ingredients added in. (I'm not talking about traditional, dry-cured sausages here, by the way. I'm talking about manufactured food.)

It's not about what I think, it's about what I know of the traditional Italian diet from actually living there before, and still being a commuter there.

Listen, I never said they only eat lean pork in Italy. I was referring to lean meat as a (personal) preference, by myself and others who'd take it over pork belly (as delicious as the latter can be) Obviously in Italy they eat a variety of cuts from the pig, as evidenced by the dozens of varieties of hams, salami and sausages that make up their food lexicon. However, what I can tell you is that outside of salumi (which is generally eaten as antipasti, or part of a quick late morning panino as Italians don't eat breakfast) when you sit down to an Italian table, in a private home or restarant, in the city or the countryside, the pork eaten is generally lean, and very dressed down. It's usually very bare, with a touch of seasoning, and herbs of choice. Of course there are special dishes eaten maybe once a year for special holidays (they have a dish for a pork shoulder stuffed with sweet salcicce makes one feel as if it has been injected with crack). And we all know of the usual veal and oxtail dishes. But they wouldn't have something like that nearly as often as the average pork-loving American eats bacon or fatty roasts.

I agree with you about sauces and additives (and preparation methods), actually that was what I wanted to say in my previous post with fewer words. However, I'm still a supporter of lean meats...and the issue of oils is already familiar to me; being mindful of the two is how I keep my size 4. I know my body, and I know it well enough to have figured out that too much bacon and pork chops are a problem for me. You also have to keep in mind that meat is not cut the same way in all countries. What you know as a pork chop in the USA might look different to an Italian coteletta. In Germany there are several cuts of pork classified as a pork chop (kotlett), with varying degrees of fat; the marbled ones are great but somtimes you to know when to pull back and opt for tenderloin instead... and don't get me started on the short ribs here- they have about a inch thick piece of meat on them and half of it's fat. If I sat around eating German short ribs and German pork chops every day, my gut and ass would be as wide as Dodger Stadium. Considering I'm short, and a borderline diabetic, I'm cool with having those things in moderation with an emphasis on lean cuts for my diet. It suits me just fine.

I'm gonna back TonyVanDam up on this. If God said it's not a good idea, and science/common sense says it's true, that's good enough for me. I haven't totally phased pork out yet (bratwurst!) but I see the good sense in it.

abigail05 said:

I'm gonna back TonyVanDam up on this. If God said it's not a good idea, and science/common sense says it's true, that's good enough for me. I haven't totally phased pork out yet (bratwurst!) but I see the good sense in it.

God didn't say it. And it isn't science (or common sense, for that matter).

But, hey - you eat what you want.

abigail05 said:

I'm gonna back TonyVanDam up on this. If God said it's not a good idea, and science/common sense says it's true, that's good enough for me. I haven't totally phased pork out yet (bratwurst!) but I see the good sense in it.

Science/ common sense says it's true?

Ummm... Where ?

The idea herei s that fat content of certain cuts and method of dish preparation lead to health issues . Live on a steady diet of corned beef with all that lard on top of it, and see what that gets you.

....insofar as what God says about what we should and shouldn't eat, please make note that there are over 600 commandments in the Old Testament that tell us what we should and shouldn't do

( and as a moderately studious Christian I can tell you many folks can't even name the commands let alone the books, chapters and verses they're derived from). I imagine that once your taste for bratwurst phases out, hopefully you're not a fan of steamed mussels, shrimp scampi, or clams cassino because those creatures are on the forbidden foods list, too according to Scripture. I would advise discussing it with a biblical scholar or person of the cloth who has basic familiarity with Hebrew, and some historical knowledge of the time period to give you an informed perspective on context there....just my two cents

Genesia said:

abigail05 said:

I'm gonna back TonyVanDam up on this. If God said it's not a good idea, and science/common sense says it's true, that's good enough for me. I haven't totally phased pork out yet (bratwurst!) but I see the good sense in it.

God didn't say it. And it isn't science (or common sense, for that matter).

But, hey - you eat what you want.

Well maybe God didn't say it for you. But there are those who believe the commandments in the Old Testament are directives from God and they should be let alone to worship and believe as such. Let's not poop on anyone's belief system here even if we don't agree

I'll back you up on the science/common sense part, though

I had some really good sausage links this weekend, unlike what I've been getting in the stores that taste like fillerish, non-meaty mush. I'm hooked, I hope they don't suddenly change up on me. My cholestrol is relatively low considering I haven't lived the best of lifestyles, but if it starts getting up there I'd make changes, but until then I'm munching away.

The only thing this thread has done is make me want a pet pig AND a ham sandwich.

Ottensen said:

Genesia said:

God didn't say it. And it isn't science (or common sense, for that matter).

But, hey - you eat what you want.

Well maybe God didn't say it for you. But there are those who believe the commandments in the Old Testament are directives from God and they should be let alone to worship and believe as such. Let's not poop on anyone's belief system here even if we don't agree

I'll back you up on the science/common sense part, though

Thou shalt not eat pork? Funny, I don't remember Moses chipping that one onto those stone tablets. Was that before or after they roasted their hot dogs over the burning bush?

Genesia said:

Ottensen said:

Well maybe God didn't say it for you. But there are those who believe the commandments in the Old Testament are directives from God and they should be let alone to worship and believe as such. Let's not poop on anyone's belief system here even if we don't agree

I'll back you up on the science/common sense part, though

Thou shalt not eat pork? Funny, I don't remember Moses chipping that one onto those stone tablets. Was that before or after they roasted their hot dogs over the burning bush?

Hot dogs over burning bushes...I'm no longer thinking about pork in the least

johnart said:

Genesia said:

Thou shalt not eat pork? Funny, I don't remember Moses chipping that one onto those stone tablets. Was that before or after they roasted their hot dogs over the burning bush?

Hot dogs over burning bushes...I'm no longer thinking about pork in the least

Then my work here is done! :done:

Genesia said:

Ottensen said:

Well maybe God didn't say it for you. But there are those who believe the commandments in the Old Testament are directives from God and they should be let alone to worship and believe as such. Let's not poop on anyone's belief system here even if we don't agree

I'll back you up on the science/common sense part, though

Thou shalt not eat pork? Funny, I don't remember Moses chipping that one onto those stone tablets. Was that before or after they roasted their hot dogs over the burning bush?

It's in the text, read your bible sometimes.

Okay, I'm being a smart ass, but it's in the set of dietary commands given to the Children of Israel while they were hauling their behinds out of Egypt , first in Leviticus and then repeated in again Deuteronomy. However Paul (the forefather of Christianity) relaxed those dietary laws for Gentiles while he was in Greece. Now they only applies to Jews and those who observe Abrahamic law. There's scores that I have to add to that, but it's late. You folks have fun.

For years I've been saying, ah those nutty Jews! You can eat anything you want! Christ is the new covenant, and kosher doesn't mean shit to me. Acts 10, baby. Get up Peter, go kill and eat.
Yum.

But it recently occurred to me, maybe God said avoid pork because it's not good for you. Ah...maybe there's something to that. I'm still looking into it.

Along those same lines it would be much harder to give up shrimp and scallops. Love the seafood. And I'm from Sheboygan, so it's not like I'm ever gonna stop eating brats. I would switch to beef links though, if only for health benefits.

Genesia said:

ZombieKitten said:

Even WITHIN Italy there is a difference in rates of heart disease from north to south.

Those in the south tended to cook solely with olive oil whilst those in the north used butter as well.

Ultimately, it's smoking that is the Italians downfall, although after their ban on smoking in eating/public places, there was a notable difference in rates of smoking related heart disease.

I remember reading something about their genetics too, but can't find a relevant article now

None of which has anything to do with pork. But okay.

not the pork itself, how it was prepared (as you pointed out) - ie. butter vs olive oil (I agree, they like their pork fatty for flavour)

You brought up old guys in Italy because they had low rates of heart disease, didn't you?