One more thing; an accident doesn't mean nobody is at fault. It just means they didn't plan it ahead of time.

kpowers said:

DesireeNevermind said:

Read further up and check my ealier posts for the answer to your question.

ok, so you would have them locked up for a long time but not 36 years, for killing 5 people. That comes out to a little less then 7 years per person. 7 years equals one persons life??? Thats not fair.

There are no years that you can come up with to equal someone's life. You act as if she intentionally set out to kill 5 people. It was an accident and she panicked like any normal person put in such a situation. What if she were your daughter or sister? You wouldn't even contemplate trying to protect her or at least call a lawyer right away? How many times have you found yourself driving in crazy traffic or crazy weather? Any one of us at any time can find ourselves behind the wheel of a car and accidently causing an accident that ends someone's life. I don't agree with her fleeing the scene and trying to cover up the accident at all...that's what she's getting 36 years for....not the actual deaths of these people.

DesireeNevermind said:

kpowers said:

ok, so you would have them locked up for a long time but not 36 years, for killing 5 people. That comes out to a little less then 7 years per person. 7 years equals one persons life??? Thats not fair.

There are no years that you can come up with to equal someone's life. You act as if she intentionally set out to kill 5 people. It was an accident and she panicked like any normal person put in such a situation. What if she were your daughter or sister? You wouldn't even contemplate trying to protect her or at least call a lawyer right away? How many times have you found yourself driving in crazy traffic or crazy weather? Any one of us at any time can find ourselves behind the wheel of a car and accidently causing an accident that ends someone's life. I don't agree with her fleeing the scene and trying to cover up the accident at all...that's what she's getting 36 years for....not the actual deaths of these people.

If she had fled the scene of a non-injury accident chances are very good that she would be serving no time at all. Fines and suspended or revoked license, sure. She is definitely serving this time for the deaths involved with this accident.

Also, I would hope that nobody in my family would be so stupid and heartless as to flee the scene and attempt to cover it up. Regardless, whether they stayed and tried to help or fled and tried to hide it, the law is the law. If they were found to be at fault by the legal system, as shitty as it often is, I'd visit them often. I'm sure the people involved in this case have access to appeals just like the rest of us. And if their lawyers are worth anything they'll fight very hard to have the sentences reduced.

Cerebus said:

DesireeNevermind said:

There are no years that you can come up with to equal someone's life. You act as if she intentionally set out to kill 5 people. It was an accident and she panicked like any normal person put in such a situation. What if she were your daughter or sister? You wouldn't even contemplate trying to protect her or at least call a lawyer right away? How many times have you found yourself driving in crazy traffic or crazy weather? Any one of us at any time can find ourselves behind the wheel of a car and accidently causing an accident that ends someone's life. I don't agree with her fleeing the scene and trying to cover up the accident at all...that's what she's getting 36 years for....not the actual deaths of these people.

If she had fled the scene of a non-injury accident chances are very good that she would be serving no time at all. Fines and suspended or revoked license, sure. She is definitely serving this time for the deaths involved with this accident.

She would have gotten the 10 years the defense attorney was asking for. I've never heard of any judge shelling out 36 year prison sentences in vehicle manslaughter cases to folk who:

1. had no previous criminal record

2. were not under the influence of drugs/alchohol

3. did not intend to kill/did not have a motive

unless there was some bias involved like racial or gender issues. I firmly believed had she not fled the scene and tried to cover up her involvement, her prison sentence would be much less than 36 years and her mother would obviously not be tried at all.

Honestly, I think they will appeal and have the sentence reduced...though not by much.

Greycap, it's interesting to see you take the position this is excessive. You seem usually to side on very severe penalty for crime.

For my part, though, I also think it's excessive. First of all, with no intent to kill, I don't see how a case for vehicular homicide even stuck. This seems a textbook manslaughter case. (Unless Georgia's legal standards for vehicular homicide are somehow different or lower than those for general homicide.) That aside, what this young lady did seem guilty of -- causing serious bodily injury, hit-and-run, reckless driving, failure to maintain lane, tampering with evidence, (presumably some other obstruction of justice-related charge[s]), etc. -- deserves a harsh sentence, but 36 years seems... wow.

I don't see this sentence upheld on appeal.

[Edited 11/4/10 15:07pm]

BklynBabe said:

So what happened to the sideswiper?

I was wondering about that myself. There must have been a sideswiper to cause Aimee to lose control of her car so much so that she would cause the deaths of that family - imagine the impact from the sideswiper that caused her car to run into another vehicle. This whole thing is messy.

I also wondered if perhaps she was texting while driving but it doesn't seem she was distracted, just swiped by another driver.

[Edited 11/4/10 14:57pm]

DesireeNevermind said:

kpowers said:

ok, so you would have them locked up for a long time but not 36 years, for killing 5 people. That comes out to a little less then 7 years per person. 7 years equals one persons life??? Thats not fair.

There are no years that you can come up with to equal someone's life. You act as if she intentionally set out to kill 5 people. It was an accident and she panicked like any normal person put in such a situation. What if she were your daughter or sister? You wouldn't even contemplate trying to protect her or at least call a lawyer right away? How many times have you found yourself driving in crazy traffic or crazy weather? Any one of us at any time can find ourselves behind the wheel of a car and accidently causing an accident that ends someone's life. I don't agree with her fleeing the scene and trying to cover up the accident at all...that's what she's getting 36 years for....not the actual deaths of th

It was an accident, but her actions afterwards were criminal. I would not flee the scene, I would try to give aid as much as possible. I would leave the scene only if the crowd turns on me, then I would drive to the police station. If that was my daughter or sister I would calm her down and take her to the police station, it's the best thing I could for her. 5 deaths aint going away.

kpowers said:

DesireeNevermind said:

There are no years that you can come up with to equal someone's life. You act as if she intentionally set out to kill 5 people. It was an accident and she panicked like any normal person put in such a situation. What if she were your daughter or sister? You wouldn't even contemplate trying to protect her or at least call a lawyer right away? How many times have you found yourself driving in crazy traffic or crazy weather? Any one of us at any time can find ourselves behind the wheel of a car and accidently causing an accident that ends someone's life. I don't agree with her fleeing the scene and trying to cover up the accident at all...that's what she's getting 36 years for....not the actual deaths of th

It was an accident, but her actions afterwards were criminal. I would not flee the scene, I would try to give aid as much as possible. I would leave the scene only if the crowd turns on me, then I would drive to the police station. If that was my daughter or sister I would calm her down and take her to the police station, it's the best thing I could for her. 5 deaths aint going away.

I think you just answered one of your earlier questions.

DesireeNevermind said:

kpowers said:

It was an accident, but her actions afterwards were criminal. I would not flee the scene, I would try to give aid as much as possible. I would leave the scene only if the crowd turns on me, then I would drive to the police station. If that was my daughter or sister I would calm her down and take her to the police station, it's the best thing I could for her. 5 deaths aint going away.

I think you just answered one of your earlier questions.

DesireeNevermind said:

Empress said:

She killed 5 people and fled the scene and then tried to cover things up. WTF? Of course, this is fair. She deserves everything she's getting. It makes no difference what colour her skin is or those of the victims. If she had've stayed on the scene and taken responsibility then I could see a sentence of 5-10 years, but she didn't so........................

historically, in the southern parts of the U.S., skin color has always made a difference in the types of prison sentences people get and the types of justice victims get.

Can ya leave race outta this??? It's about a tragic accident.

You want to discuss race issues, then go create a thread in P&R or this might end up in P&R.

^

First off.....I'm not here to discuss race issues and am well aware of how anything to do with race automatically gets dumped into P&R. I only brought up race once because the original poster asked the question of fairness with regard to prison sentences these two women received.

All possibilities and theories of why these women got such lengthy sentences and if such sentences are fair should be and are being addressed. Quite frankly, I don't understand org policy which puts anything to do with race into P&R. I didn't know race was political....thought it was a factor of birth. Why not change the name to PFRG? Politics, Faith, Race and Gender. At least that's clear.

Also, what's this attitude about "if I want to start a race thread go to P&R" as if P&R is some dead zone of a forum or as if I'm constantly bringing up race in each of my posts which I clearly didn't. I mentioned it once then Graycap responded with understanding and it was done for my part until empress, pickles and kpowers decided to continue talking about race. I have no problem responding to anyone on here and if the issue of race continues then WE ARE ALL continuing it.

For my part I've addressed everything from the possiblity of racial bias to the reality that the girl fled the scene and caused herself to receive a harsher sentence to the question about the sideswiper. sheesh!!!!

I'm responding to you Luv because you replied to MY posts so I'm presuming you have a problem with me mentioning these women being black and the inequality of the justice system in the south...which again....I brought oup one time.

The title's misleading. She likely made it a lot worse for causing such a horrendous accident and fleeing. The cover-up aspect of this took it beyond being just a horrible accident.

Lammastide said:

Greycap, it's interesting to see you take the position this is excessive. You seem usually to side on very severe penalty for crime.

For my part, though, I also think it's excessive. First of all, with no intent to kill, I don't see how a case for vehicular homicide even stuck. This seems a textbook manslaughter case. (Unless Georgia's legal standards for vehicular homicide are somehow different or lower than those for general homicide.) That aside, what this young lady did seem guilty of -- causing serious bodily injury, hit-and-run, reckless driving, failure to maintain lane, tampering with evidence, (presumably some other obstruction of justice-related charge[s]), etc. -- deserves a harsh sentence, but 36 years seems... wow.

I don't see this sentence upheld on appeal.

[Edited 11/4/10 15:07pm]

I agree with some of what you're saying. Except she didn't cause "serious bodily harm", she killed five people. She didn't kill one person, she killed five people. And then tried to hide it. If she had murdered five people she would get life without parole or the death penalty (depending on state law). Thirty six years for killing five people (even as negligent vehicular manslaughter) means she could be out in as few as, what, fifteen? Twenty years? I just don't see that as being an excessive sentence at all.

Lammastide said:

Greycap, it's interesting to see you take the position this is excessive. You seem usually to side on very severe penalty for crime.

For my part, though, I also think it's excessive. First of all, with no intent to kill, I don't see how a case for vehicular homicide even stuck. This seems a textbook manslaughter case. (Unless Georgia's legal standards for vehicular homicide are somehow different or lower than those for general homicide.) That aside, what this young lady did seem guilty of -- causing serious bodily injury, hit-and-run, reckless driving, failure to maintain lane, tampering with evidence, (presumably some other obstruction of justice-related charge[s]), etc. -- deserves a harsh sentence, but 36 years seems... wow.

I don't see this sentence upheld on appeal.

[Edited 11/4/10 15:07pm]

I hear ya on my usual stance but I always try 2 be fair. I don't see how giving this woman 36 years and her Mother 8 years is "fair". I've seen 1st degree murderers get less time.

Graycap23 said:

Lammastide said:

Greycap, it's interesting to see you take the position this is excessive. You seem usually to side on very severe penalty for crime.

For my part, though, I also think it's excessive. First of all, with no intent to kill, I don't see how a case for vehicular homicide even stuck. This seems a textbook manslaughter case. (Unless Georgia's legal standards for vehicular homicide are somehow different or lower than those for general homicide.) That aside, what this young lady did seem guilty of -- causing serious bodily injury, hit-and-run, reckless driving, failure to maintain lane, tampering with evidence, (presumably some other obstruction of justice-related charge[s]), etc. -- deserves a harsh sentence, but 36 years seems... wow.

I don't see this sentence upheld on appeal.

[Edited 11/4/10 15:07pm]

I hear ya on my usual stance but I always try 2 be fair. I don't see how giving this woman 36 years and her Mother 8 years is "fair". I've seen 1st degree murderers get less time.

First degree murderers who killed FIVE people? Doubt it.

Her leaving the scene and her mother helping to cover it up, was done out of fear. A parent is going to do whatever it takes to protect their child. That being said, their actions were wrong and they should pay, with this penalty. The court, wanted to send a message to others, by handing downn this sentence. In my opinion, her lawyers did not do a great job, in defending her. As a result, they were handed down this harsh sentence. My hope, as a former law school student, is that they grant them an appeal and that her team uses common sense this time.

shorttrini said:

Her leaving the scene and her mother helping to cover it up, was done out of fear. A parent is going to do whatever it takes to protect their child. That being said, their actions were wrong and they should pay, with this penalty. The court, wanted to send a message to others, by handing downn this sentence. In my opinion, her lawyers did not do a great job, in defending her. As a result, they were handed down this harsh sentence. My hope, as a former law school student, is that they grant them an appeal and that her team uses common sense this time.

I agree, shorttrini.

To Greycap's question of fairness, I remember a case years ago involving a woman whose sentencing on drug charges was also meant to send a message. She also was a college student -- in her case, it was her boyfriend who was the drug criminal; her involvement was tangential, at best. I'm sure there are studies of sentencing that have weighed whether young blacks receive harsher sentences. I'm not familiar with such studies.

if i killed 5 people, i'd be worried about getting the electric chair.

whistle said:

if i killed 5 people, i'd be worried about getting the electric chair.

4 an accident?

Wonder how long an appeal will take in a case like this? Her mother shouldn't be in prison for 8 years. That's crazy. She should have gotten 2-3 years and that's it.

Not bringing race into it really, just showing another case.

A lady named Mary Hill in Florida killed her daughter and her daughter's friend in a car accident, and she got 15 years.

So if you do the math, this lady got basically the same sentence for the number of people killed, minus a year and a half.

GetAwayFromMe said:

Not bringing race into it really, just showing another case.

A lady named Mary Hill in Florida killed her daughter and her daughter's friend in a car accident, and she got 15 years.

So if you do the math, this lady got basically the same sentence for the number of people killed, minus a year and a half.

definitely another way to look at it. If the standard sentence for vehicle manslaughter is 7 years then she really did get 7 years per death. Is that how it's normally done though?

DesireeNevermind said:

Wonder how long an appeal will take in a case like this? Her mother shouldn't be in prison for 8 years. That's crazy. She should have gotten 2-3 years and that's it.

I think with good behavior the mom will only serve 2-3 years

GetAwayFromMe said:

Not bringing race into it really, just showing another case.

A lady named Mary Hill in Florida killed her daughter and her daughter's friend in a car accident, and she got 15 years.

So if you do the math, this lady got basically the same sentence for the number of people killed, minus a year and a half.

Did they stay on the scene or did they flee and try to cover it up???

i cant tell.. on the one side it seems harsh, but then..

when you do wrong you have to make it right

here in the tampa bay area a dentist, his wife, and a friend where going home after a halloween party..they'd been drinking, at least the driver had..

he lost control of his vehicle and jumped a curb, struck 3 pedestrians, and killed 2 of them..

posted $119,000 bail, and DROVE home..

my son has 4 years left to serve on a 5 year prison term for

resisting arrest with violence..luckily he didnt hurt anyone but himself while resisting but still..

he didnt kill anyone drunk driving

Flori-duh..

im gonna see if i can find the story..

kpowers said:

GetAwayFromMe said:

Not bringing race into it really, just showing another case.

A lady named Mary Hill in Florida killed her daughter and her daughter's friend in a car accident, and she got 15 years.

So if you do the math, this lady got basically the same sentence for the number of people killed, minus a year and a half.

Did they stay on the scene or did they flee and try to cover it up???

Hmm. well, she stayed at the scene. So I guess they didn't get enough time?

GetAwayFromMe said:

kpowers said:

Did they stay on the scene or did they flee and try to cover it up???

Hmm. well, she stayed at the scene. So I guess they didn't get enough time?

They got the same time as the lady who did flee the scene .

[Edited 11/6/10 16:56pm]