Shanti0608 said:

Good lord...after reading all of the posts on this thread, I wonder...

do any of you that think this man should be raped in prison actually think it will do any good? I mean does it deter other "monsters" from doing the same thing that he has done?

What about prevention instead of trying to punish people after the fact! What about parents teaching their children right and wrong. What about loving our children and nurturing them and accepting who they are. Giving them a loving environment. Obviously this guy is damaged and needed help long before he had a child.

No amount of ass raping in prison will bring this little boy back.

Quite,

Once can only imagine this "man" had the shit kicked out of him by his father, and his father before.

Sterilisation is a better solution than sodomy, break the chain.

"He infiltrated my family through our trust, through the heart of my daughter and then stole the life of her child," said the baby's grandfather Daniel Collins. "I hope the justice system turns around and steals his."

I hope so to, Mr. Collins.

JustErin said:

I agree with just about everything SUPRMAN has said in this thread so no need to say it again.

Even when he said my statement was sick?

JustErin said:

meow85 said:

Gender policing at its worst.

This is horrible.

But.

IMO what this is is the extreme end of a spectrum that begins with not allowing little boys to play with dolls or girls to play in the dirt -things many parents think of as perfectly acceptable. The person who did this had to have learned and internalized the same set of ideas about appropriate gender expression as the rest of us. Obviously he took it to a horrifying extreme most people would not, but how many of you have snickered over a man getting a manicure?

This person did not exist in a vacuum. He got his ideas about gender and sexuality from somewhere.

Some of the high and mighty right here in this thread I have seen posting elsewhere on the Org snarky, rude, and even downright homophobic remarks about men and women who don't meet the accepted standards of heterosexual masculinity and femininity. Ask yourselves again where this dude learned what it means to 'act like a boy".

[Edited 8/11/10 12:44pm]

Oh man, you are so right.

But it's easier to just dismiss this dude as some kind of monster, that way we can disassociate (is that even a real word?) him from the rest of society, absolving us of any responsibility.

That's alway the reply. He was evil, a monster, born this way. Um no, society created this monster.

The same applies to rapists, murderers and all other dangerous criminals.

IMO it's intellectually dishonest to think of those who do horrible things as evil or as monsters because then we're allowing ourselves to downplay the real problem. If it's only a monster that killed a child then we have the right to be upset but we don't have to accept the reality that it was one of us that did it. It feels safer to pretend it's the boogeyman.

It's painful and horrifying that a human being could cause such harm, but it's the truth. Rapists and killers didn't spring up from nowhere, they're as much a product of the world we live in as any of the rest of us. It's only when we accept that that we might have a chance at preventing some of these tragedies.

Shanti0608 said:

JustErin said:

Oh man, you are so right.

But it's easier to just dismiss this dude as some kind of monster, that way we can disassociate (is that even a real word?) him from the rest of society, absolving us of any responsibility.

That's alway the reply. He was evil, a monster, born this way. Um no, society created this monster.

Both of you..spot on!

This thread made me think of something that happened a few weeks ago. We had our neices over and they were playing with our 9 month old.

When he was really little, I bought him a toy that I thought he would like to chew on. When I bought it I was in the store with hubby and the baby. The toy is hot pink and green which I didnt think anything about. It looked like something he would like to chew on and play with. When I took it to the counter the girl said that they were all out of the blue "boy" version of the toy.

I told her that it was fine, he would not care if it was pink.

So when the neices were over the 4 year old one was on the floor with the baby and he was playing with the pink toy. She took it out of his hand and said "boys do not play with pink toys!!" and threw it out of his reach.

I was in shock, I picked it up and handed it back to him. I told her that it is his toy and he likes to play with it no matter what colour it is.

I left it at that.

Wow.....scary what they learn at such a young age.

<--right now., I wish the code for that emoticon wasn't "disbelief" because I do believe it.

I worked at a toy store for two years, and one of my current jobs is as a nanny. It's really quite disturbing how intense and internalized these rules go. I'll admit that I'm guilty of it sometimes too. It's so ingrained, it's hard not to. I try to be aware of my thoughts on the matter and police myself, but still.

Obviously there are real differences between boys and girls, but a lot of what we demand is purely taught and not natural.

Shanti0608 said:

Good lord...after reading all of the posts on this thread, I wonder...

do any of you that think this man should be raped in prison actually think it will do any good? I mean does it deter other "monsters" from doing the same thing that he has done?

What about prevention instead of trying to punish people after the fact! What about parents teaching their children right and wrong. What about loving our children and nurturing them and accepting who they are. Giving them a loving environment. Obviously this guy is damaged and needed help long before he had a child.

No amount of ass raping in prison will bring this little boy back.

dseann said:

JustErin said:

I agree with just about everything SUPRMAN has said in this thread so no need to say it again.

Even when he said my statement was sick?

If you were advocating prison rape, then yes.

meow85 said:

It's painful and horrifying that a human being could cause such harm, but it's the truth. Rapists and killers didn't spring up from nowhere, they're as much a product of the world we live in as any of the rest of us. It's only when we accept that that we might have a chance at preventing some of these tragedies.

You can talk prevention all you want, the bottom line is human beings have been doing unspeakable things to each other for thousands of years. Some peple are truly evil, with no concept of right or wrong, and they must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

uPtoWnNY said:

meow85 said:

It's painful and horrifying that a human being could cause such harm, but it's the truth. Rapists and killers didn't spring up from nowhere, they're as much a product of the world we live in as any of the rest of us. It's only when we accept that that we might have a chance at preventing some of these tragedies.

You can talk prevention all you want, the bottom line is human beings have been doing unspeakable things to each other for thousands of years. Some peple are truly evil, with no concept of right or wrong, and they must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

And I agree.

But it's intellectually dishonest to think of people who commit these kinds of crimes as evil or as monsters. Acknowledging that they're human beings who have come to be the way they are for a variety of reasons will do so much more to address the problem than simply locking them away after the fact will.

Most people, even criminals, do have a sense of right or wrong. Those people who truly do not have a mental disorder that can be detected even from a young age. Why not work to stop a kid who shoplifts or gets in a lot of fights before he grows up and his crimes get worse? It's the only logical approach.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Fucking stupid piece of shit. End homophobia now.

Exactly!

uPtoWnNY said:

meow85 said:

It's painful and horrifying that a human being could cause such harm, but it's the truth. Rapists and killers didn't spring up from nowhere, they're as much a product of the world we live in as any of the rest of us. It's only when we accept that that we might have a chance at preventing some of these tragedies.

You can talk prevention all you want, the bottom line is human beings have been doing unspeakable things to each other for thousands of years. Some peple are truly evil, with no concept of right or wrong, and they must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

It is time for humans to evolve. We have made advances in technology, medicine and in many other areas yet humans refuse to own up to their actions and take responsibility for them.

Nothing is ever learned from catching these ppl and throwing them behind bars.

Victims are left scarred forever and many end up passing on the hate through generations.

My father was abused and abandoned as a child. Then when he had me he still had hatred, epecially towards girls because his parents kept his sister and got rid of him. Me being his second child and second daughter by the time he was 21 yrs old, he hated both of us.

Not because of who we were but because we were girls and he had his own issues that he refused to deal with.

All of that crap that my dad put me through was because of stuff his parents did to him. I never wanted to have children because I never wanted another human being to feel like I did as a child.

Then it dawned on me, I have responsibility over my own life and my actions.

I knew that when I finally decided to have a child of my own that I would have a boy and I did. It was bound to happen that way. My test as a human to be a better person than my parents and learn from their mistakes.

I love my son very much and it is my responsibility to teach my son right from wrong and not perpetuate the mistakes of past generations.

Shanti0608 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

You can talk prevention all you want, the bottom line is human beings have been doing unspeakable things to each other for thousands of years. Some peple are truly evil, with no concept of right or wrong, and they must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

It is time for humans to evolve. We have made advances in technology, medicine and in many other areas yet humans refuse to own up to their actions and take responsibility for them.

Nothing is ever learned from catching these ppl and throwing them behind bars.

Victims are left scarred forever and many end up passing on the hate through generations.

My father was abused and abandoned as a child. Then when he had me he still had hatred, epecially towards girls because his parents kept his sister and got rid of him. Me being his second child and second daughter by the time he was 21 yrs old, he hated both of us.

Not because of who we were but because we were girls and he had his own issues that he refused to deal with.

All of that crap that my dad put me through was because of stuff his parents did to him. I never wanted to have children because I never wanted another human being to feel like I did as a child.

Then it dawned on me, I have responsibility over my own life and my actions.

I knew that when I finally decided to have a child of my own that I would have a boy and I did. It was bound to happen that way. My test as a human to be a better person than my parents and learn from their mistakes.

I love my son very much and it is my responsibility to teach my son right from wrong and not perpetuate the mistakes of past generations.

meow85 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Thank you! No sympathy for the wicked. Show those animals the same mercy they showed their victims. End of.

Who's the animal here?

Vengeance is for the stupid. It's a barbaric, senseless, and largely counter-productive response.

Don't under estimate Vengeance, it can be Fantastic.

Shanti0608 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

You can talk prevention all you want, the bottom line is human beings have been doing unspeakable things to each other for thousands of years. Some peple are truly evil, with no concept of right or wrong, and they must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

It is time for humans to evolve. We have made advances in technology, medicine and in many other areas yet humans refuse to own up to their actions and take responsibility for them.

Nothing is ever learned from catching these ppl and throwing them behind bars.

Victims are left scarred forever and many end up passing on the hate through generations.

My father was abused and abandoned as a child. Then when he had me he still had hatred, epecially towards girls because his parents kept his sister and got rid of him. Me being his second child and second daughter by the time he was 21 yrs old, he hated both of us.

Not because of who we were but because we were girls and he had his own issues that he refused to deal with.

All of that crap that my dad put me through was because of stuff his parents did to him. I never wanted to have children because I never wanted another human being to feel like I did as a child.

Then it dawned on me, I have responsibility over my own life and my actions.

I knew that when I finally decided to have a child of my own that I would have a boy and I did. It was bound to happen that way. My test as a human to be a better person than my parents and learn from their mistakes.

I love my son very much and it is my responsibility to teach my son right from wrong and not perpetuate the mistakes of past generations.

I thought I was the only one who thought that way.

SUPRMAN said:

Shanti0608 said:

It is time for humans to evolve. We have made advances in technology, medicine and in many other areas yet humans refuse to own up to their actions and take responsibility for them.

Nothing is ever learned from catching these ppl and throwing them behind bars.

Victims are left scarred forever and many end up passing on the hate through generations.

My father was abused and abandoned as a child. Then when he had me he still had hatred, epecially towards girls because his parents kept his sister and got rid of him. Me being his second child and second daughter by the time he was 21 yrs old, he hated both of us.

Not because of who we were but because we were girls and he had his own issues that he refused to deal with.

All of that crap that my dad put me through was because of stuff his parents did to him. I never wanted to have children because I never wanted another human being to feel like I did as a child.

Then it dawned on me, I have responsibility over my own life and my actions.

I knew that when I finally decided to have a child of my own that I would have a boy and I did. It was bound to happen that way. My test as a human to be a better person than my parents and learn from their mistakes.

I love my son very much and it is my responsibility to teach my son right from wrong and not perpetuate the mistakes of past generations.

I thought I was the only one who thought that way.

Nope. We all have scars and shit that we struggle with. It is how you deal with it that matters. I could have decided to hate men (and or boys) after my experiences but I chose not to be the "victim" my entire life just because I lived with abuse as a child.

At some point you have to take responsibility for your actions as an adult.

meow

SUPRMAN

Genesia said:

Have you ever noticed how often children are killed by mommy's low-life boyfriend or the low-life stepdad?

Genesia is spot on.

It’s a story we see time and time again.

Biological father is removed from child’s life...

Mother and /or in this case, new boyfriend kills child. Most often, it is the mother who instigates the violence against the child, and it is her who encourages the new (thug) boyfriend to murder the child...though seemingly not in this case.

Males of many animal species tend to view unrelated males – including children – as competitors, and will unfortunately sometimes kill them.

This aspect of the case has been virtually ignored in favor of a red herring...which is the 'gay-bashing' angle...that some commenters here have wasted so much time expounding on.

Suggesting that the child was a victim of a homophobic attack is either naive or disingenuous. A 17-month-old child does not display many sex-specific behaviors, and only a psychopath or mentally retarded individual would expect them to do so...this is probably the case with Pedro Jones; his explanation sounds more like an excuse he made after acting on some other psychotic deep-seated impulse.

Reporters are shifting the blame for child killing onto supposedly 'gay-hating' psychopaths...a red herring...when the real problem is...and the reason so many children needlessly die – is that they have been removed from the person who has an innate biological mandate to protect them, namely: their biological father.

And it is feminists...who have devoted enormous energy to kicking fathers out of their children’s lives, who are to blame for that.

So...When we have a set of laws that encourages women to remove their children from their biological fathers’ oversight and engage in sexual adventurism with a string of different men, these incidents are bound to happen more frequently than they would otherwise.

.

funkyandy said:

Biological father is removed from child’s life...

Most often, it is the mother who instigates the violence against the child, and it is her who encourages the new (thug) boyfriend to murder the child...

And it is feminists...who have devoted enormous energy to kicking fathers out of their children’s lives, who are to blame for that.

So...When we have a set of laws that encourages women to remove their children from their biological fathers’ oversight and engage in sexual adventurism with a string of different men, these incidents are bound to happen more frequently than they would otherwise.

.

What a load of bullshit.

Barf.

JustErin said:

funkyandy said:

Biological father is removed from child’s life...

Most often, it is the mother who instigates the violence against the child, and it is her who encourages the new (thug) boyfriend to murder the child...

And it is feminists...who have devoted enormous energy to kicking fathers out of their children’s lives, who are to blame for that.

So...When we have a set of laws that encourages women to remove their children from their biological fathers’ oversight and engage in sexual adventurism with a string of different men, these incidents are bound to happen more frequently than they would otherwise.

.

What a load of bullshit.

Barf.

wth??

JustErin said:

funkyandy said:

Biological father is removed from child’s life...

Most often, it is the mother who instigates the violence against the child, and it is her who encourages the new (thug) boyfriend to murder the child...

And it is feminists...who have devoted enormous energy to kicking fathers out of their children’s lives, who are to blame for that.

So...When we have a set of laws that encourages women to remove their children from their biological fathers’ oversight and engage in sexual adventurism with a string of different men, these incidents are bound to happen more frequently than they would otherwise.

.

What a load of bullshit.

Barf.

Classic shaming language...once in a while you might wanna say why things are bs Erin...I know we can't let facts get in the way of some nice ridicule on your part.

Would advise other folk to read the whole of what I said not Erin's cut and paste edits...nice try.

.

.

[Edited 8/15/10 8:54am]

funkyandy said:

JustErin said:

What a load of bullshit.

Barf.

Classic shaming language...once in a while you might wanna say why things are bs Erin...I know we can't let facts get in the way of some nice ridicule on your part.

.

Nothing you said was based on "facts". And anyone who reads my posts knows I explain "why" most times.

But I honestly can't be bothered to explain why when dealing with such ignorance. Keep your messed up views, kid...because I know nothing that anyone will say will make a lick of difference.

JustErin said:

funkyandy said:

Classic shaming language...once in a while you might wanna say why things are bs Erin...I know we can't let facts get in the way of some nice ridicule on your part.

.

Nothing you said was based on "facts". And anyone who reads my posts knows I explain "why" most times.

But I honestly can't be bothered to explain why when dealing with such ignorance. Keep your messed up views, kid...because I know nothing that anyone will say will make a lick of difference.

Yawn...would like to know what other orgers think...agree or otherwise

.

what a piece of shit.....

meow85 said:

dseann said:

Even when he said my statement was sick?

If you were advocating prison rape, then yes.

Not prison rape. Just "justice".

JustErin said:

I agree with just about everything SUPRMAN has said in this thread so no need to say it again.

Everybody always agrees with Superman, yet I'm the one who gets the job done.

Shanti0608 said:

SUPRMAN said:

I thought I was the only one who thought that way.

Nope. We all have scars and shit that we struggle with. It is how you deal with it that matters. I could have decided to hate men (and or boys) after my experiences but I chose not to be the "victim" my entire life just because I lived with abuse as a child.

At some point you have to take responsibility for your actions as an adult.

meow

SUPRMAN

Thank you!

kpowers said:

JustErin said:

I agree with just about everything SUPRMAN has said in this thread so no need to say it again.

Everybody always agrees with Superman, yet I'm the one who gets the job done.

Somebody has to watch the city while I'm saving the planet . . . .

funkyandy said:

Genesia said:

Have you ever noticed how often children are killed by mommy's low-life boyfriend or the low-life stepdad?

Genesia is spot on.

It’s a story we see time and time again.

Biological father is removed from child’s life...

Mother and /or in this case, new boyfriend kills child. Most often, it is the mother who instigates the violence against the child, and it is her who encourages the new (thug) boyfriend to murder the child...though seemingly not in this case.

Males of many animal species tend to view unrelated males – including children – as competitors, and will unfortunately sometimes kill them.

This aspect of the case has been virtually ignored in favor of a red herring...which is the 'gay-bashing' angle...that some commenters here have wasted so much time expounding on.

Suggesting that the child was a victim of a homophobic attack is either naive or disingenuous. A 17-month-old child does not display many sex-specific behaviors, and only a psychopath or mentally retarded individual would expect them to do so...this is probably the case with Pedro Jones; his explanation sounds more like an excuse he made after acting on some other psychotic deep-seated impulse.

Reporters are shifting the blame for child killing onto supposedly 'gay-hating' psychopaths...a red herring...when the real problem is...and the reason so many children needlessly die – is that they have been removed from the person who has an innate biological mandate to protect them, namely: their biological father.

And it is feminists...who have devoted enormous energy to kicking fathers out of their children’s lives, who are to blame for that.

So...When we have a set of laws that encourages women to remove their children from their biological fathers’ oversight and engage in sexual adventurism with a string of different men, these incidents are bound to happen more frequently than they would otherwise.

.

I don't even know how to address this post except to say that you are so fucking wrong I'd laugh if it wasn't horrifying.

funkyandy said:

JustErin said:

Nothing you said was based on "facts". And anyone who reads my posts knows I explain "why" most times.

But I honestly can't be bothered to explain why when dealing with such ignorance. Keep your messed up views, kid...because I know nothing that anyone will say will make a lick of difference.

Yawn...would like to know what other orgers think...agree or otherwise

.

I think your post is bullshit.

I think you're using feminists and feminism as a straw-man villain.

I think you don't know what you're talking about.

I feel very, very sorry for you.

dseann said:

meow85 said:

If you were advocating prison rape, then yes.

Not prison rape. Just "justice".

Prison rape is not justice.

Prison rape is sick, and so are the people who think it's justifiable.

dseann said:

meow85 said:

If you were advocating prison rape, then yes.

Not prison rape. Just "justice".

'Justice' would be giving that fool the chair. If not that, then life in prison in a 3' x 5' closet with no chance for parole.