BklynBabe said:

SUPRMAN said:

If it were karma wouldn't he be dead also?

It's called petty vengeance in my book.

nothing petty about the vengeance here....

All vengeance is petty and simply wrong when seeking justice.

SUPRMAN said:

BklynBabe said:

nothing petty about the vengeance here....

All vengeance is petty and simply wrong when seeking justice.

In many cases, there is a fine line between vengeance and justice. The justice system is all about making people "pay" for their wrongdoing, often with sentences that adversly affect the wrongdoer. So how do you differentiate the two?

SUPRMAN said:

BklynBabe said:

nothing petty about the vengeance here....

All vengeance is petty and simply wrong when seeking justice.

oh well then. Killing defenseless babies is more wrong so if his future includes a widening of his anal canal to the size of the Holland Tunnel and I'm wrong to not feel any pity about that, so be it. This is easily avoiding by following the simple commandment of "Thou shalt not kill" or as I feel "If thou shalt kill, thou mayest get anally raped"

I agree with SUPRMAN, there is no excuse for violence and rape, I don't care who it is against. I feel to lower ourselves to the same level as the perpetrator only leads to a cycle of violence, which to this day has never ended. We should strive for the higher road.

=0P

Hero0101 said:

I agree with SUPRMAN, there is no excuse for violence and rape, I don't care who it is against. I feel to lower ourselves to the same level as the perpetrator only leads to a cycle of violence, which to this day has never ended. We should strive for the higher road.

=0P

If by "ourselves" you mean folks who weren't involved, sure. I wouldn't say that applies to the mother/family affected by this.

But what is this "higher road" you speak of?

I haven't killed a baby so I feel pretty good about my road, and the state of my anus.

And ole dude will et what he gets by virtue of what he did.

I don't even have to wish for it.....

etifaim said:

Hero0101 said:

I agree with SUPRMAN, there is no excuse for violence and rape, I don't care who it is against. I feel to lower ourselves to the same level as the perpetrator only leads to a cycle of violence, which to this day has never ended. We should strive for the higher road.

=0P

If by "ourselves" you mean folks who weren't involved, sure. I wouldn't say that applies to the mother/family affected by this.

But what is this "higher road" you speak of?

I mean, instead of waisting energy wishing for the perpetrator to be raped, instead wish that the family finds peace. Instead wish that other people are enlightened and learn that gender stereotypes can lead to instances like this. Wish that this never happens again.

Having said all of that, if he DOES happen to get raped in prison, that doesn't mean you have to shed a tear for him.

=0P

BklynBabe said:

SUPRMAN said:

All vengeance is petty and simply wrong when seeking justice.

oh well then. Killing defenseless babies is more wrong so if his future includes a widening of his anal canal to the size of the Holland Tunnel and I'm wrong to not feel any pity about that, so be it. This is easily avoiding by following the simple commandment of "Thou shalt not kill" or as I feel "If thou shalt kill, thou mayest get anally raped"

Thank you! No sympathy for the wicked. Show those animals the same mercy they showed their victims. End of.

Hero0101 said:

etifaim said:

If by "ourselves" you mean folks who weren't involved, sure. I wouldn't say that applies to the mother/family affected by this.

But what is this "higher road" you speak of?

I mean, instead of waisting energy wishing for the perpetrator to be raped, instead wish that the family finds peace. Instead wish that other people are enlightened and learn that gender stereotypes can lead to instances like this. Wish that this never happens again.

Having said all of that, if he DOES happen to get raped in prison, that doesn't mean you have to shed a tear for him.

=0P

Ah I see. Well then I agree

But it only took a second for me to imagine him getting his just reward and it felt good

SUPRMAN said:

BklynBabe said:

nothing petty about the vengeance here....

All vengeance is petty and simply wrong when seeking justice.

What do you recommend when seeking justice? How is the justice system supposed to deal with these people? I understand your point about vengeance, but what would you advocate if this monster beat your child to death? Send him to jail for life and continue to have taxpayers support him? Try reforminig him? What if he was sent to prison, served his time and released and a year later repeated his crime? What then? I don't know, but I don't see the worth in continuing this person's life. Instead of sentencing him to death, why not transport his ass to the middle of the Atlantic/Pacific ocean? Leave him there on a raft with a week's worth of food and water. If he makes it back unaided, then perhaps the Lord intended him to survive. If not, good friggin riddance.

etifaim said:

SUPRMAN said:

All vengeance is petty and simply wrong when seeking justice.

In many cases, there is a fine line between vengeance and justice. The justice system is all about making people "pay" for their wrongdoing, often with sentences that adversly affect the wrongdoer. So how do you differentiate the two?

Serving a sentence is expected to adversely affect the wrongdoer. Being jailed or fined is penalty proscribed in advance of the offender's actions.

Nowhere do we sentence anyone to being beaten, raped, assaulted, injured or killed by others because of the heinousness of the crime. The extra-judicial punishment is vengeance, not justice.

That's how I differentiate the two.

When we start sentencing those who kill children to being gang raped, raped, beaten in prison, killed in prison etc, then it's not vengeance, it what we meted out as justice.

BklynBabe said:

I haven't killed a baby so I feel pretty good about my road, and the state of my anus.

And ole dude will et what he gets by virtue of what he did.

I don't even have to wish for it.....

No one has to but that hasn't stopped plenty of people from doing so.

I guess it could never be you or someone you know, love, or care about . . .

uPtoWnNY said:

BklynBabe said:

oh well then. Killing defenseless babies is more wrong so if his future includes a widening of his anal canal to the size of the Holland Tunnel and I'm wrong to not feel any pity about that, so be it. This is easily avoiding by following the simple commandment of "Thou shalt not kill" or as I feel "If thou shalt kill, thou mayest get anally raped"

Thank you! No sympathy for the wicked. Show those animals the same mercy they showed their victims. End of.

And how does that improve society?

Be animals like those animals?

How do we differentiate?

SUPRMAN said:

etifaim said:

In many cases, there is a fine line between vengeance and justice. The justice system is all about making people "pay" for their wrongdoing, often with sentences that adversly affect the wrongdoer. So how do you differentiate the two?

Serving a sentence is expected to adversely affect the wrongdoer. Being jailed or fined is penalty proscribed in advance of the offender's actions.

Nowhere do we sentence anyone to being beaten, raped, assaulted, injured or killed by others because of the heinousness of the crime. The extra-judicial punishment is vengeance, not justice.

That's how I differentiate the two.

When we start sentencing those who kill children to being gang raped, raped, beaten in prison, killed in prison etc, then it's not vengeance, it what we meted out as justice.

This story just breaks your heart but I have pity for this jack ass. He has been raised by the violence in the media and misinformed about manhood.

His punishment wont be the jail he's placed in nor is it the 10 by 10 he will now call home. It will be the sounds of a crying baby ringing in his head every time he lays his head to rest. While he sleeps he will have visions of who that baby was supposed to grow to be. The baby will ask him why did he have to die. In the morning when he wakes and dips his hands in water to wash his face he will see the blood of that child. It will stain his hands and he will never feel clean.

The scars that will be left on his mind will be far deeper then anything that will happen to his body.

Vengeance is Mine says the Lord and he Will have it.

He will have to place himself on the path to seek the Creator within, pray for understanding and wisdom then ask that little baby for forgiveness.

He will have to atone for this sin by preaching tolerance. Until that happens he will never know peace.

I pray the the Creator will remove the blinders from the mother's eyes and make her a better protector of her children.

SUPRMAN said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

No and his sitting his sorry ass in jail, on the tax payers dime, still living and breathing, isn't going to make the world a better place either, now is it?

Since you're so compassionate, where's your compassion for the little boy who was murdered and will never get the chance to ever try and make the world a better place?

My compassion for the child isn't expressed by wishing his abuser to be raped . . . .

I guess teaching him to grow up and wish rape on others would make the world a better place wouldn't it?

Frankly speaking, your compassion for the child isn't being expressed, at all!

You're going on and on about about justice and the fate of the criminal. What will eventually happen to him is not a hope nor a wish. It's the by product of the circumstance that he chose to to put himself in.

What happened was not a mistake nor an accident because it is ridiculous to expect a 17 month old toddler to understand the human concept of sexuality! That child was just being that child! Whatever that moron thought he "saw" in that child was purely from his own understanding or lack there of! More than likely it was something that was taught to him by another moron. However, that chain of idiocy had to be broken and the chips will fall where they may!

.

[Edited 8/4/10 21:42pm]

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

SUPRMAN said:

My compassion for the child isn't expressed by wishing his abuser to be raped . . . .

I guess teaching him to grow up and wish rape on others would make the world a better place wouldn't it?

Frankly speaking, your compassion for the child isn't being expressed, at all!

You're going on and on about about justice and the fate of the criminal. What will eventually happen to him is not a hope nor a wish. It's the by product of the circumstance that he chose to to put himself in.

What happened was not a mistake nor an accident because it is ridiculous to expect a 17 month old toddler to understand the human concept of sexuality! That child was just being that child! Whatever that moron thought he "saw" in that child was purely from his own understanding or lack there of! More than likely it was something that was taught to him by another moron. However, that chain of idiocy had to be broken and the chips will fall where they may!

.

[Edited 8/4/10 21:42pm]

Bull____

It is the hope and wish expressed repeatedly on this thread.

It is not a byproduct of the circumstances that he chose to put him in.

Again, no one is sentenced to being raped, beaten, gang raped etc.

Wow..I just have no words for this. As a gay black woman, I just think that people have a downright fear of homosexuality. Plan and simple. They think we want to make the whole world gay or something?? I think this guy has some type of mental illness or something. I think he's gonna end up like Jeffery Dahmer did in prison: dead, or raped, or both. Karma is coming for him. That little boy didnt deserve to die. I saw an episode of Steve Wilkos like this where the boyfriend of a woman killed a 4 year old cause he 'acted homosexual' and the woman and the boyfriend went to jail for child neglect and 1st degree murder. Terrible. Children do not ask to be here and there always put throught drama because of adults.

[Edited 8/5/10 15:10pm]

It makes me sad because 2 lives have been ruined. The perpertrator is only 20 years, that' s practically still a kid in my book. What has happened to him which brought him to the point where he thinks it's okay to beat up a 17 month old?

I'm not defending him - I just think we need to see the whole picture before passing judgement. And even then, before you start, yes even then, it is still unforgiveable what he did.

Gender policing at its worst.

This is horrible.

But.

IMO what this is is the extreme end of a spectrum that begins with not allowing little boys to play with dolls or girls to play in the dirt -things many parents think of as perfectly acceptable. The person who did this had to have learned and internalized the same set of ideas about appropriate gender expression as the rest of us. Obviously he took it to a horrifying extreme most people would not, but how many of you have snickered over a man getting a manicure?

This person did not exist in a vacuum. He got his ideas about gender and sexuality from somewhere.

Some of the high and mighty right here in this thread I have seen posting elsewhere on the Org snarky, rude, and even downright homophobic remarks about men and women who don't meet the accepted standards of heterosexual masculinity and femininity. Ask yourselves again where this dude learned what it means to 'act like a boy".

[Edited 8/11/10 12:44pm]

SUPRMAN said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Miserable sorry bastard! Too bad we won't hear about how "too girly" his bitch ass is about to become!

Yeah, more abuse will make the world a better place . . . .

I know this isn't the thread's subject, but I have a big problem with the idea so many people seem to have that rape in prison is not just expected, but an acceptable part, of the prisoner's punishment.

uPtoWnNY said:

BklynBabe said:

oh well then. Killing defenseless babies is more wrong so if his future includes a widening of his anal canal to the size of the Holland Tunnel and I'm wrong to not feel any pity about that, so be it. This is easily avoiding by following the simple commandment of "Thou shalt not kill" or as I feel "If thou shalt kill, thou mayest get anally raped"

Thank you! No sympathy for the wicked. Show those animals the same mercy they showed their victims. End of.

Who's the animal here?

Vengeance is for the stupid. It's a barbaric, senseless, and largely counter-productive response.

meow85 said:

Gender policing at its worst.

This is horrible.

But.

IMO what this is is the extreme end of a spectrum that begins with not allowing little boys to play with dolls or girls to play in the dirt -things many parents think of as perfectly acceptable. The person who did this had to have learned and internalized the same set of ideas about appropriate gender expression as the rest of us. Obviously he took it to a horrifying extreme most people would not, but how many of you have snickered over a man getting a manicure?

This person did not exist in a vacuum. He got his ideas about gender and sexuality from somewhere.

Some of the high and mighty right here in this thread I have seen posting elsewhere on the Org snarky, rude, and even downright homophobic remarks about men and women who don't meet the accepted standards of heterosexual masculinity and femininity. Ask yourselves again where this dude learned what it means to 'act like a boy".

[Edited 8/11/10 12:44pm]

Meow...you have hit all the issues herein on the head, and I want to applaud you for your level-headedness.

=0P

Hero0101 said:

meow85 said:

Gender policing at its worst.

This is horrible.

But.

IMO what this is is the extreme end of a spectrum that begins with not allowing little boys to play with dolls or girls to play in the dirt -things many parents think of as perfectly acceptable. The person who did this had to have learned and internalized the same set of ideas about appropriate gender expression as the rest of us. Obviously he took it to a horrifying extreme most people would not, but how many of you have snickered over a man getting a manicure?

This person did not exist in a vacuum. He got his ideas about gender and sexuality from somewhere.

Some of the high and mighty right here in this thread I have seen posting elsewhere on the Org snarky, rude, and even downright homophobic remarks about men and women who don't meet the accepted standards of heterosexual masculinity and femininity. Ask yourselves again where this dude learned what it means to 'act like a boy".

[Edited 8/11/10 12:44pm]

Meow...you have hit all the issues herein on the head, and I want to applaud you for your level-headedness.

=0P

Co-sign

Shoewhore said:

How is a 17 month old supposed to "act like a boy"?????

.......or "act like a girl"?

Heidi said:

It makes me sad because 2 lives have been ruined. The perpertrator is only 20 years, that' s practically still a kid in my book. What has happened to him which brought him to the point where he thinks it's okay to beat up a 17 month old?

I'm not defending him - I just think we need to see the whole picture before passing judgement. And even then, before you start, yes even then, it is still unforgiveable what he did.

exactly!

this is something I could have posted (and copped flak for )

I agree with just about everything SUPRMAN has said in this thread so no need to say it again.

meow85 said:

Gender policing at its worst.

This is horrible.

But.

IMO what this is is the extreme end of a spectrum that begins with not allowing little boys to play with dolls or girls to play in the dirt -things many parents think of as perfectly acceptable. The person who did this had to have learned and internalized the same set of ideas about appropriate gender expression as the rest of us. Obviously he took it to a horrifying extreme most people would not, but how many of you have snickered over a man getting a manicure?

This person did not exist in a vacuum. He got his ideas about gender and sexuality from somewhere.

Some of the high and mighty right here in this thread I have seen posting elsewhere on the Org snarky, rude, and even downright homophobic remarks about men and women who don't meet the accepted standards of heterosexual masculinity and femininity. Ask yourselves again where this dude learned what it means to 'act like a boy".

[Edited 8/11/10 12:44pm]

Oh man, you are so right.

But it's easier to just dismiss this dude as some kind of monster, that way we can disassociate (is that even a real word?) him from the rest of society, absolving us of any responsibility.

That's alway the reply. He was evil, a monster, born this way. Um no, society created this monster.

JustErin said:

meow85 said:

Gender policing at its worst.

This is horrible.

But.

IMO what this is is the extreme end of a spectrum that begins with not allowing little boys to play with dolls or girls to play in the dirt -things many parents think of as perfectly acceptable. The person who did this had to have learned and internalized the same set of ideas about appropriate gender expression as the rest of us. Obviously he took it to a horrifying extreme most people would not, but how many of you have snickered over a man getting a manicure?

This person did not exist in a vacuum. He got his ideas about gender and sexuality from somewhere.

Some of the high and mighty right here in this thread I have seen posting elsewhere on the Org snarky, rude, and even downright homophobic remarks about men and women who don't meet the accepted standards of heterosexual masculinity and femininity. Ask yourselves again where this dude learned what it means to 'act like a boy".

[Edited 8/11/10 12:44pm]

Oh man, you are so right.

But it's easier to just dismiss this dude as some kind of monster, that way we can disassociate (is that even a real word?) him from the rest of society, absolving us of any responsibility.

That's alway the reply. He was evil, a monster, born this way. Um no, society created this monster.

Both of you..spot on!

This thread made me think of something that happened a few weeks ago. We had our neices over and they were playing with our 9 month old.

When he was really little, I bought him a toy that I thought he would like to chew on. When I bought it I was in the store with hubby and the baby. The toy is hot pink and green which I didnt think anything about. It looked like something he would like to chew on and play with. When I took it to the counter the girl said that they were all out of the blue "boy" version of the toy.

I told her that it was fine, he would not care if it was pink.

So when the neices were over the 4 year old one was on the floor with the baby and he was playing with the pink toy. She took it out of his hand and said "boys do not play with pink toys!!" and threw it out of his reach.

I was in shock, I picked it up and handed it back to him. I told her that it is his toy and he likes to play with it no matter what colour it is.

I left it at that.

Wow.....scary what they learn at such a young age.

Good lord...after reading all of the posts on this thread, I wonder...

do any of you that think this man should be raped in prison actually think it will do any good? I mean does it deter other "monsters" from doing the same thing that he has done?

What about prevention instead of trying to punish people after the fact! What about parents teaching their children right and wrong. What about loving our children and nurturing them and accepting who they are. Giving them a loving environment. Obviously this guy is damaged and needed help long before he had a child.

No amount of ass raping in prison will bring this little boy back.

Black people these days....we try sooo hard to be accepted by society...always play the race card ...then someone does does shit like this. That's just wrong, in so many ways.