I'm going to make some assumptions here.

Firstly, you're company is looking at application level and middle tier level implementations and already has an underlying Database system you're going to leverage, correct? SAP has the ability to utilize informix, DB2, ...I believe even old AS400 systems, and of course Oracle databases.

The preferred database system is obviously Oracle, but SAP can leverage most of the main systems.

SAP is designed in such a way that you have your normal tiers plus an addictional nuance to one of the tiers they call the "Central Instance", which in a nutshell is just hardware/software that resides in one of the middle tiers of the architecture. I'm no DBA guy, but I do know for some reason it complicates upgrades if you tweak that tier beyond the standard configurations (SAP is extreme customizable).

I'm also not sure what you're going to use it for. SAP has App functions for all sorts of financial company uses.... I mean, just about anything you can throw at it.

And Oracle bought out PeopleSoft so it's offerings are staggering too.

One thing about SAP though is the number of layers you have in your architecture and the fact that SQL commands get abstracted from the original Oracle (or destined Oracle command). Oracle is highly "Tunable" but this becomes very difficult to do when trying to do it with SAP. And if you're dealing with 100,000 SQL queries every few minutes (which is not unusual for large finance companies), a SQL tweak can mean the difference between a split second and up to a minute (which can cost thousands of dollars in wait times during those minutes).

My company used both SAP and Straight Oracle solutions depending on the department though. I only operated projects for the front end software pieces, and I do recall SAP applications being absolutely huge to deploy over the network.

ugh! we use oracle and I hate it.

now...I realize that the company I work for never purchased all the modules that it needs but still...I hate it.

TheVoid said:

I'm going to make some assumptions here.

Firstly, you're company is looking at application level and middle tier level implementations and already has an underlying Database system you're going to leverage, correct? SAP has the ability to utilize informix, DB2, ...I believe even old AS400 systems, and of course Oracle databases.

The preferred database system is obviously Oracle, but SAP can leverage most of the main systems.

SAP is designed in such a way that you have your normal tiers plus an addictional nuance to one of the tiers they call the "Central Instance", which in a nutshell is just hardware/software that resides in one of the middle tiers of the architecture. I'm no DBA guy, but I do know for some reason it complicates upgrades if you tweak that tier beyond the standard configurations (SAP is extreme customizable).

I'm also not sure what you're going to use it for. SAP has App functions for all sorts of financial company uses.... I mean, just about anything you can throw at it.

And Oracle bought out PeopleSoft so it's offerings are staggering too.

One thing about SAP though is the number of layers you have in your architecture and the fact that SQL commands get abstracted from the original Oracle (or destined Oracle command). Oracle is highly "Tunable" but this becomes very difficult to do when trying to do it with SAP. And if you're dealing with 100,000 SQL queries every few minutes (which is not unusual for large finance companies), a SQL tweak can mean the difference between a split second and up to a minute (which can cost thousands of dollars in wait times during those minutes).

My company used both SAP and Straight Oracle solutions depending on the department though. I only operated projects for the front end software pieces, and I do recall SAP applications being absolutely huge to deploy over the network.

We are a medical supply/device company that ships out about $300,000 a day on average.

Our current ERP system is Expandable which we are their biggest customer. Expandable is very manual and falls extremely short for a company that will break $100 million in sales this year. Expandable is much more suited for a $10 million a year company, not $100 million.

Either system we go with will have to leverage from Expandable and will be replacing it completely. We will be going with either SAP or Oracle, not a combination of both.

I have to admit, seeing SAP and Oracle presented on back to back days, the SAP presentation was much better. But that is just it, it was how they were presented by each company.

I am looking for actual on hand experience which you have provided (thank you).

Shorty said:

ugh! we use oracle and I hate it.

now...I realize that the company I work for never purchased all the modules that it needs but still...I hate it.

Is it difficlut to navigate? Is it not user friendly? Does it simply not do what you need it to do? Do you think you would like it if you had all the modules?

Sowhat said:

TheVoid said:

I'm going to make some assumptions here.

Firstly, you're company is looking at application level and middle tier level implementations and already has an underlying Database system you're going to leverage, correct? SAP has the ability to utilize informix, DB2, ...I believe even old AS400 systems, and of course Oracle databases.

The preferred database system is obviously Oracle, but SAP can leverage most of the main systems.

SAP is designed in such a way that you have your normal tiers plus an addictional nuance to one of the tiers they call the "Central Instance", which in a nutshell is just hardware/software that resides in one of the middle tiers of the architecture. I'm no DBA guy, but I do know for some reason it complicates upgrades if you tweak that tier beyond the standard configurations (SAP is extreme customizable).

I'm also not sure what you're going to use it for. SAP has App functions for all sorts of financial company uses.... I mean, just about anything you can throw at it.

And Oracle bought out PeopleSoft so it's offerings are staggering too.

One thing about SAP though is the number of layers you have in your architecture and the fact that SQL commands get abstracted from the original Oracle (or destined Oracle command). Oracle is highly "Tunable" but this becomes very difficult to do when trying to do it with SAP. And if you're dealing with 100,000 SQL queries every few minutes (which is not unusual for large finance companies), a SQL tweak can mean the difference between a split second and up to a minute (which can cost thousands of dollars in wait times during those minutes).

My company used both SAP and Straight Oracle solutions depending on the department though. I only operated projects for the front end software pieces, and I do recall SAP applications being absolutely huge to deploy over the network.

We are a medical supply/device company that ships out about $300,000 a day on average.

Our current ERP system is Expandable which we are their biggest customer. Expandable is very manual and falls extremely short for a company that will break $100 million in sales this year. Expandable is much more suited for a $10 million a year company, not $100 million.

Either system we go with will have to leverage from Expandable and will be replacing it completely. We will be going with either SAP or Oracle, not a combination of both.

I have to admit, seeing SAP and Oracle presented on back to back days, the SAP presentation was much better. But that is just it, it was how they were presented by each company.

I am looking for actual on hand experience which you have provided (thank you).

Yes, you wouldn't go with both on the application/middle teir.

I was speaking of the database tier. It's either going to be Oracle or some other database, but I don't think SAP has it's own SQL database, does it?

I've heard of running SAP on top of MS SQL server, but that would be suicide for any company handling large numbers of queries daily.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that SAP resides on the top 2 tears (presentation and application).

Your DBMS would be Oracle, DB2, Informix, MS SQL server, etc. depending on what you decided to go with. Most large companies will go with DB2 or Oracle for the Database tier (layer).

TheVoid said:

Sowhat said:

We are a medical supply/device company that ships out about $300,000 a day on average.

Our current ERP system is Expandable which we are their biggest customer. Expandable is very manual and falls extremely short for a company that will break $100 million in sales this year. Expandable is much more suited for a $10 million a year company, not $100 million.

Either system we go with will have to leverage from Expandable and will be replacing it completely. We will be going with either SAP or Oracle, not a combination of both.

I have to admit, seeing SAP and Oracle presented on back to back days, the SAP presentation was much better. But that is just it, it was how they were presented by each company.

I am looking for actual on hand experience which you have provided (thank you).

Yes, you wouldn't go with both on the application/middle teir.

I was speaking of the database tier. It's either going to be Oracle or some other database, but I don't think SAP has it's own SQL database, does it?

I've heard of running SAP on top of MS SQL server, but that would be suicide for any company handling large numbers of queries daily.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that SAP resides on the top 2 tears (presentation and application).

Your DBMS would be Oracle, DB2, Informix, MS SQL server, etc. depending on what you decided to go with. Most large companies will go with DB2 or Oracle for the Database tier (layer).

Now I understand what you were talking about. Right now we are just being involved from an end user perspective. Our IT department will take care of DBMS (which is currently MS SQL) based on what system we choose.

Sowhat said:

TheVoid said:

Yes, you wouldn't go with both on the application/middle teir.

I was speaking of the database tier. It's either going to be Oracle or some other database, but I don't think SAP has it's own SQL database, does it?

I've heard of running SAP on top of MS SQL server, but that would be suicide for any company handling large numbers of queries daily.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that SAP resides on the top 2 tears (presentation and application).

Your DBMS would be Oracle, DB2, Informix, MS SQL server, etc. depending on what you decided to go with. Most large companies will go with DB2 or Oracle for the Database tier (layer).

Now I understand what you were talking about. Right now we are just being involved from an end user perspective. Our IT department will take care of DBMS (which is currently MS SQL) based on what system we choose.

ahhhhhhh.

Yeah, I have no advice to offer as to what's on top at those layers other than my company used both SAP and Oracle depending on the departements.

THe underlying databases were always Oracle or DB2 for the most part.

I would go with the vendor who will taylor the solution exactly to your needs. I'm assuming you've given them your detailed case flows/workflows/tech docs, right?

I remember a SAP team went in and rocked our fraud department's systems. But they mostly needed data mining stuff.

I'm an apps guy though--not a database guy.

Dan, I <3 you.

Sowhat said:

Shorty said:

ugh! we use oracle and I hate it.

now...I realize that the company I work for never purchased all the modules that it needs but still...I hate it.

Is it difficlut to navigate? Is it not user friendly? Does it simply not do what you need it to do? Do you think you would like it if you had all the modules?

yes, it's difficult to navigate. It's not very user friendly. It does what I need it to do but not logically (IMO) It would probably be better with all the modules but...hard sayin' not knowin'. Part of it is probably our disfunction....it was perhaps never set up the way it should have been...I don't know. but part of my oracle password...is oraclesucks. good luck

oh I should probably say that I've never had any oracle training either....but my understanding is, administrators can get some good training but since Oracle is so talored to each company there isn't any training other than employees telling employees how to do stuff.

[Edited 7/28/10 5:33am]

Occassional Oracle user

As long as you get a proper introduction/training to it, it's very easy to use. It's not one I'd try to figuire out whilst I use it though. Some companies have training databases that you can play with so that you can get used to it though.