All of this backlash towards Tyler Perry is a bit confusing to me and raises a lot of questions. About a couple of weeks ago, I was watching on BET plays by Je'Caryous Johnson, "3 Ways To Get a Husband" starring Billy Dee Williams, Leon and "Cheaper to Keep Her" starring Vivica Fox and Brian McKnight. And at first I thought they were plays but David E. Talbert which I've seen on BET also, such as "Love In the Nick of Time", I've even saw a play or two of his where there are characters with men dressed as old black women acting nutty, though I've never seen him play any character in his plays. All of this plays seem to have a particular genre they cater to. Both of these directors/ producers are high profile in the community, David has worked with movies, one I understand he worked with Ice Cube and Katt Williams. What is the difference in what these men are doing versus what Tyler is doing? Is it working style? Connections? Who became the most famous? I honestly don't get it. I enjoy them all, as silly as they can be.

It seems to me that there is a problem with the genre and since Tyler has gotten rich off of this genre he gets the backlash. Most who complain say it is the buffoonery that bothers them and that it is hypocritical for us ( the Black community) to hold the establishment ( Hollywood) accountable but not our own. Again it comes down to opinion. I enjoy a Tyler Perry film because it's funny and the messages BUT I must say the main reason I still go to his films are because of the audience. There is nothing like sitting in an audience at a Tyler Perry film, often they are better than the film itself.

just my

film that I am.

Lifetime movies on the big screen: Tyler Perry

simple, trite, it always is the same in every movie. Is simple a genre?

I think, like Mel Gibson, Perry is a divisive public figure. His hidden homosexuality hypocrisy and his anti-union working class stance makes him the perfect target for ripping. I honestly think if his films were made with quality, like a Roman Palanski or Woody Allen, some would forgive him...but his films are sh*t so he gets no pass.

I guess my answer is, 50/50.

If he upped the quality in what he does and moved away from certain things then I'd probably like him more. Why Did I Get Married? is probably my favorites out of everything he's done, but even that needed work.

I don't really like black plays in general.

[Edited 7/1/10 17:47pm]

I liked him in Star Trek, does that count?

I'm sure he's a decent guy, but his work is boring to me. Maybe if the drag was funny and/or well done....?

butterfli25 said:

It seems to me that there is a problem with the genre and since Tyler has gotten rich off of this genre he gets the backlash. Most who complain say it is the buffoonery that bothers them and that it is hypocritical for us ( the Black community) to hold the establishment ( Hollywood) accountable but not our own. Again it comes down to opinion. I enjoy a Tyler Perry film because it's funny and the messages BUT I must say the main reason I still go to his films are because of the audience. There is nothing like sitting in an audience at a Tyler Perry film, often they are better than the film itself.

just my

film that I am.

Well, Tyler's not the only one who has gotten rich. A few of them have gotten rich off of the whole Gospel Drama genre. David E. Talbert is definitely one of them, he's rich, he's connected with some of the biggest names today in Hollywood like Jamie Foxx and Ice Cube like I mentioned before, but never, not once, have I heard his name brought up when folks are lamblasting such plays, that's the confusing part for me. Is it the genre or the man that's the issue? Of course Tyler, has gotten the richest so far and it started with the plays cause the house, no wait, mansion estate, in his 1st movie was/is his. The biggest differences I see from most of the black producers who are ranking high on the list is they have film degrees and other formal education, Tyler never even graduated from High School, he got his GED and here he is. It kind of makes me wonder. I like Tyler's plays and I like David's and Je'Caryous' plays just as much. I sure there are other's too I've seen that I enjoy for what they are. They all have the same themes of preserverance, overcoming obstacles and a lot of positive messages. And they're over the top goofy too, I still crack up thinking about Billy Dee's old man dance.

KatSkrizzle said:

Lifetime movies on the big screen: Tyler Perry

simple, trite, it always is the same in every movie. Is simple a genre?

Personally, I like simple and goofy as hell sometimes just as much as I like deep and thought provoking or unique and original, I like all kinds of things Obviously a lot of other folks across the board do too or there wouldn't be a Lifetime station all to itself. But I can perfectly understand if it's not your taste. That's fair.

Aryll said:

If he upped the quality in what he does and moved away from certain things then I'd probably like him more. Why Did I Get Married? is probably my favorites out of everything he's done, but even that needed work.

I don't really like black plays in general.

[Edited 7/1/10 17:47pm]

Fair enough.

meow85 said:

I liked him in Star Trek, does that count?

I'm sure he's a decent guy, but his work is boring to me. Maybe if the drag was funny and/or well done....?

I guess so. I don't think in anyway form or fashion, everybody should like himn or the genre if you don't, you don't, fine with me. But like it's been mentioned in the other thread by now if it's just "buffoonery and coonery" in general then why isn't there a trashing of other people's name doing the exact same thing for better or for worse. Maybe there is very good reason for singling out Tyler, there's a lot of behind of scene things that I don't know I was just hoping to get clarification on what is the issue with him specifically.

There's cheap, low-brow comedy. If you fault him on that basis, then you have to fault the man-child genre that has made Will Ferrell so rich in recent years (The Hangover, Bring Him to the Greek, Stepbrothers, etc).

Naw, TP's films are their own kind of bad. They deserve the recognition.

morningsong said:

KatSkrizzle said:

Lifetime movies on the big screen: Tyler Perry

simple, trite, it always is the same in every movie. Is simple a genre?

Personally, I like simple and goofy as hell sometimes just as much as I like deep and thought provoking or unique and original, I like all kinds of things Obviously a lot of other folks across the board do too or there wouldn't be a Lifetime station all to itself. But I can perfectly understand if it's not your taste. That's fair.

I guess when a guy has NO formal education on fil period, he would churn out shit. But he has a hustle, so....but I don't contribute. I'd rather not be insulted by the remedial nature of his work. To each his own.

ThreadBare said:

There's cheap, low-brow comedy. If you fault him on that basis, then you have to fault the man-child genre that has made Will Ferrell so rich in recent years (The Hangover, Bring Him to the Greek, Stepbrothers, etc).

Naw, TP's films are their own kind of bad. They deserve the recognition.

Somehow that stupid comedy is clever and makes me laugh. The trite nature of TP's films literally make e cringe. There's something that when you know someone is being simple and poking fun and has the intelligence and capacity to write a script (perhaps they took a few fim courses), and then there's moments when one is being simple and they have no clue how simple they are. That would be a TP film.

Who are the bigger buffoons though?

The writer, TP?

The actors who agree to be in it?

The film company that agrees to distribute a TPS film?

It's all or nothing, really. People take movies way too serious, especially ones like this. Movies are meant to entertain. Who cares if it doesn't reflect the black community? Do white folks scream about stuff like Airplane!, or Naked Gun? Hell no. Why? Because people recognize it's humor, or drama, or FANTASY in general. Yet a black man does a movie, and it's not spot on with what goes on in the black community, then it's buffoonery. Who wants to go to every movie that is exactly as your persona life is like? I mean - you can stay home for that, can't you? People want to be entertained. It's not degrading to anyone. Porn is degrading. Prostitution is degrading. Drug use is degrading. A Tyler Perry movie is not. A Kevin Smith movie is not. People want to be taken somewhere else for two hours. If they want an accurate depiction of black life, save your money and stay home, and go sit on your front porch w/ a tumbler of iced tea, and enjoy the show.

How narrow-minded to think the "black community" has only one way they do things, and anything that differs from that is a sell out, or inaccurate. Do all black folks sell drugs or smoke pot? No, but yet Friday was a popular movie. Are all black folks in gangs? No, but yet Boyz In The Hood was a popular movie.

I frankly think that a lot of folks, black or otherwise, are a bit jealous that a black man has made good in the world. Yeah, folks are all about fighting the cause, fighting the man, and "we shall overcome", until someone does - then it's "they're a sell out", "that's stereotypical", "that's buffoonery", etc. Even Prince said he wasn't waiting on reparations. Black folks been waiting 400 years for that. Right or wrong, it ain't gonna happen. ANYONE, regardless of ethnic origin, has to make it happen for themselves, on their own. Folks have to stop sitting around waiting for that hand out. THE MAN ain't never gonna give it to you.

Tyler Perry went out and got his. He could have gotten it by owning a Ford dealership. Or by opening a chain of successful restaurants. Or having a profitable music career. Or whatever. But this is what he chose to do. It's like anything else - if you don't like it, more on, but for fuck's sake stop pissing on someon else's parade.

The show WILL proceed.

Genre.

ScarletScandal said:

co-

ernestsewell said:

Who are the bigger buffoons though?

The writer, TP?

The actors who agree to be in it?

The film company that agrees to distribute a TPS film?

It's all or nothing, really. People take movies way too serious, especially ones like this. Movies are meant to entertain. Who cares if it doesn't reflect the black community? Do white folks scream about stuff like Airplane!, or Naked Gun? Hell no. Why? Because people recognize it's humor, or drama, or FANTASY in general. Yet a black man does a movie, and it's not spot on with what goes on in the black community, then it's buffoonery. Who wants to go to every movie that is exactly as your persona life is like? I mean - you can stay home for that, can't you? People want to be entertained. It's not degrading to anyone. Porn is degrading. Prostitution is degrading. Drug use is degrading. A Tyler Perry movie is not. A Kevin Smith movie is not. People want to be taken somewhere else for two hours. If they want an accurate depiction of black life, save your money and stay home, and go sit on your front porch w/ a tumbler of iced tea, and enjoy the show.

How narrow-minded to think the "black community" has only one way they do things, and anything that differs from that is a sell out, or inaccurate. Do all black folks sell drugs or smoke pot? No, but yet Friday was a popular movie. Are all black folks in gangs? No, but yet Boyz In The Hood was a popular movie.

I frankly think that a lot of folks, black or otherwise, are a bit jealous that a black man has made good in the world. Yeah, folks are all about fighting the cause, fighting the man, and "we shall overcome", until someone does - then it's "they're a sell out", "that's stereotypical", "that's buffoonery", etc. Even Prince said he wasn't waiting on reparations. Black folks been waiting 400 years for that. Right or wrong, it ain't gonna happen. ANYONE, regardless of ethnic origin, has to make it happen for themselves, on their own. Folks have to stop sitting around waiting for that hand out. THE MAN ain't never gonna give it to you.

Tyler Perry went out and got his. He could have gotten it by owning a Ford dealership. Or by opening a chain of successful restaurants. Or having a profitable music career. Or whatever. But this is what he chose to do. It's like anything else - if you don't like it, more on, but for fuck's sake stop pissing on someon else's parade.

The show WILL proceed.

I disagree with all of this and think you have no idea what you are talking about.

I look at a character like Mr. Brown or Ella and shake my head. It is pure buffoonery to me. There is nothing funny to me about a person being illiterate or a person bugging their eyes out for the sake of entertainment. I find Tyler perry to be exploitative and therefore I will not give the guy a penny of my money. If other people find him entertaining, good for them. If people find a positive message in what he does, good for them.

I think it's a little dishonest to believe that black people in this country aren't treated "special". Yes, there are a lot of ignorant assholes that judge us all as a whole but unfortunately, that is the way it is. I have seen enough of Tyler Perry's work to get an informed opinion that makes me feel bad about how "we" are being portrayed.

I don't begrudge him for "getting his". good for him. I will never, ever be jealous of someone for money's sake.

So yes, I care about how my community is portrayed. It goes to how I am treated because of the color of my skin.

Vendetta1 said:

I disagree with all of this and think you have no idea what you are talking about.

And that's cool. We can agree to have different ideologies or views on things. Of course, I'll never know the prejudice and trails that black people have faced in this country. (As a matter of perspective, sometimes I think white folks forget that black people have only been able to vote for about 60 years. That's not even a full life time! Amazing, really.) I see these movies as entertainment. I can't get upset when a movie that covers my ethnic blood lines is made as a spoof or a caricature. But I also recognize that black folks have often been the go-to for making either funny, or off color (no pun), jokes in the media, etc. I get that as much as a white dude can get it.

I hate that there are ignorant assholes that judge black folks, even in 2010. I hate that there are idiots like Mel Gibson, who should know better (he's not some 20 year old throwing the N word around saying it's not bad if it has an "A" on the end of it instead of "ER") are throwing around that word, and degrading folks. You're right, it is just the world we live in. For me though, that's the bigger example of buffonery than a black actor acting crazy on the big screen. Smart folks know black folks aren't like that, no more than all Mexicans are lazy, all Jews are greedy, or all Italians are in the mob or have mob connections. It's just the people who don't realize that who scare me.

ernestsewell said:

Vendetta1 said:

I disagree with all of this and think you have no idea what you are talking about.

And that's cool. We can agree to have different ideologies or views on things. Of course, I'll never know the prejudice and trails that black people have faced in this country. (As a matter of perspective, sometimes I think white folks forget that black people have only been able to vote for about 60 years. That's not even a full life time! Amazing, really.) I see these movies as entertainment. I can't get upset when a movie that covers my ethnic blood lines is made as a spoof or a caricature. But I also recognize that black folks have often been the go-to for making either funny, or off color (no pun), jokes in the media, etc. I get that as much as a white dude can get it.

I hate that there are ignorant assholes that judge black folks, even in 2010. I hate that there are idiots like Mel Gibson, who should know better (he's not some 20 year old throwing the N word around saying it's not bad if it has an "A" on the end of it instead of "ER") are throwing around that word, and degrading folks. You're right, it is just the world we live in. For me though, that's the bigger example of buffonery than a black actor acting crazy on the big screen. Smart folks know black folks aren't like that, no more than all Mexicans are lazy, all Jews are greedy, or all Italians are in the mob or have mob connections. It's just the people who don't realize that who scare me.

I'm curious: what movies spoof your ethnic lines?

There should be a wider range of representation of black images, I'm in full agree, and many genres don't appeal to a lot of people, I get that. I can even agree with what I read on woman said about the problem being more with the image of the true Madea (mother-dear) regarding what it really stands for it is a cornerstone image of the black community that represents love, compassion, care and so many other things

But still from where I'm standing simple, stupid and goofy exist across the board.

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/married-with-children.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/mamasfamily.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/barbarajean.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/ace-ventura.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/rodney_dangerfield-244x300.jpg[/img:$uid]

[Edited 7/3/10 14:54pm]

morningsong said:

There should be a wider range of representation of black images, I'm in full agree, and many genres don't appeal to a lot of people, I get that. I can even agree with what I read on woman said about the problem being more with the image of the true Madea (mother-dear) regarding what it really stands for it is a cornerstone image of the black community that represents love, compassion, care and so many other things

But still from where I'm standing simple, stupid and goofy exist across the board.

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/married-with-children.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/mamasfamily.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/barbarajean.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/ace-ventura.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii282/HeliosSister/rodney_dangerfield-244x300.jpg[/img:$uid]

[Edited 7/3/10 14:54pm]

Simple stupid and goofy, yes. But Tyler tries to put a deep message...or what he considers deep, and it is AWFUL. Ice Cube made the Barber shop series. It was funny and had an underlying meaning - community and knowing where you come from. And it wasn't written in amkindergarten, intro to film, style. THAT is what I'm saying.

KatSkrizzle said:

Simple stupid and goofy, yes. But Tyler tries to put a deep message...or what he considers deep, and it is AWFUL. Ice Cube made the Barber shop series. It was funny and had an underlying meaning - community and knowing where you come from. And it wasn't written in amkindergarten, intro to film, style. THAT is what I'm saying.

Barbershop the movies? Ice Cube didn't write or direct those movies. I don't get the comparison.

The series on Showtime doesn't look like he wrote or directed there either. One of the executive producers, yes, but there were a lot of people involved. They were a creation of John Ridley's.

I'm still not getting the "crime" Tyler's committing. As I said before this kind of stuff, or fluff is across the board with people, and has been quite successful with the general audience, yet nobody's dragging those creator's names through the mud just because of the simplicity or foolishness of it, that's what I'm not getting. As I said before if the genre as a whole doesn't appeal to you then I get it. You don't like that kind of stuff.

Maybe I'm a dipshit, but I like some Tyler Perry movies / plays.

morningsong said:

KatSkrizzle said:

Simple stupid and goofy, yes. But Tyler tries to put a deep message...or what he considers deep, and it is AWFUL. Ice Cube made the Barber shop series. It was funny and had an underlying meaning - community and knowing where you come from. And it wasn't written in amkindergarten, intro to film, style. THAT is what I'm saying.

Barbershop the movies? Ice Cube didn't write or direct those movies. I don't get the comparison.

The series on Showtime doesn't look like he wrote or directed there either. One of the executive producers, yes, but there were a lot of people involved. They were a creation of John Ridley's.

I'm still not getting the "crime" Tyler's committing. As I said before this kind of stuff, or fluff is across the board with people, and has been quite successful with the general audience, yet nobody's dragging those creator's names through the mud just because of the simplicity or foolishness of it, that's what I'm not getting. As I said before if the genre as a whole doesn't appeal to you then I get it. You don't like that kind of stuff.

Word. It's still shit

Acrylic said:

Maybe I'm a dipshit, but I like some Tyler Perry movies / plays.

You're not a dipshit, that's just what you prefer.

If people enjoy his movies, cool. Because you're supposed to find something that makes you enjoy it.

It's just that not everyone's gonna agree but it also shouldn't mean that people get knocked because they enjoy Tyler's work.

This is a free world for that purpose.

I don't even think what Tyler is doing is cultish, I've seen films like Tyler's and I didn't enjoy them that much but it made millions upon millions of dollars so folks are happy.

morningsong said:

butterfli25 said:

It seems to me that there is a problem with the genre and since Tyler has gotten rich off of this genre he gets the backlash. Most who complain say it is the buffoonery that bothers them and that it is hypocritical for us ( the Black community) to hold the establishment ( Hollywood) accountable but not our own. Again it comes down to opinion. I enjoy a Tyler Perry film because it's funny and the messages BUT I must say the main reason I still go to his films are because of the audience. There is nothing like sitting in an audience at a Tyler Perry film, often they are better than the film itself.

just my

film that I am.

Well, Tyler's not the only one who has gotten rich. A few of them have gotten rich off of the whole Gospel Drama genre. David E. Talbert is definitely one of them, he's rich, he's connected with some of the biggest names today in Hollywood like Jamie Foxx and Ice Cube like I mentioned before, but never, not once, have I heard his name brought up when folks are lamblasting such plays, that's the confusing part for me. Is it the genre or the man that's the issue? Of course Tyler, has gotten the richest so far and it started with the plays cause the house, no wait, mansion estate, in his 1st movie was/is his. The biggest differences I see from most of the black producers who are ranking high on the list is they have film degrees and other formal education, Tyler never even graduated from High School, he got his GED and here he is. It kind of makes me wonder. I like Tyler's plays and I like David's and Je'Caryous' plays just as much. I sure there are other's too I've seen that I enjoy for what they are. They all have the same themes of preserverance, overcoming obstacles and a lot of positive messages. And they're over the top goofy too, I still crack up thinking about Billy Dee's old man dance.

My feelings are somewhat similar to yours. I've seen these Gospel plays for at least 25 years with the same structure as Perry's. If anything he's just continuing the genre as it always has been. I imagine that him coming of age and success during the height of a cyperspace-in-your-face kind of world set him up to be the fall guy for dozens of actors, singers, writers, and directors who have done these type of productions, catering to their niche audience for decades now. I understan that his work isn't for everyone. But people should be left to decide for themselves whether they and enjoy and want to support his work, and he should be left alone to enjoy the fruits of his success and those who choose to support him.