angel345 said:

Yes, because otherwise that would mean they were in it for the money and women don't operate like that as I've learned on this thread.

JustErin said:

See, don't get confused I think that dubmass should be taken to the cleaners

NDRU said:

Amen.

SUPRMAN said:

seems we're sort of describing different steps of the same process--first yours, then mine (if necessary)
[Edited 5/25/10 15:33pm]

Whoa. How did this mess get all twisted up in this joint? What does abortion have to do with anything we were discussing? People cheat. If you cheat, deal with the consequences. People have kids. If you have kids, whether you are married or not, handle yourself like an adult. I believe that children are our future.. no Just playin'. Seriously though, what does any of this have to do with Tiger gettin' reamed in a divorce settlement. Seems this has gone off the tracks a bit. Reason number... ehh, you know!

And since we're going all over the place in this thread and people have jokingly commented on it a couple times. I don't believe that any two human beings are meant to spend the rest of their lives together. It's not something our species seems to excel at. If there was less societal pressure to stay together, or more societal acceptance of people separating in order to save friendships, relationships and families, I honestly believe the world would be a much better place. Do some people succeed at it, and stay happy for the entirety of their lives, sure. Of course. But a majority don't. The only thing that keeps us in this cycle is tradition. It's what society says we're supposed to do. Grow up, leave the house, get married, have kids, wash, rinse, repeat. For a lot of people that just doesn't work. But if you don't follow those patterns you're frowned up, questioned, possibly even ridiculed. From a very young age this just never made sense to me.

Keeping it real, though, if you put yourself in that situation it's your responsibility to play by the rules. I'm not making any excuses for anybody who cheats, or abuses their partner or children (physically or mentally), or doesn't take care of their monetary responsibilities, whatever they may be. I'm just sayin' maybe they should have thought about all that before they got married.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I don't. I just wanted a good father figure for my son and some help...that's all.

Cerebus said:

It's a normal evolution of a conversation. Happens all the time.

SUPRMAN said:

*cough*choke*cough* uhum... and Flavor ain't even all that wealthy. Really.

JustErin said:

I understand the normal evolution of a conversation. I think this one moved outside of those boundaries into something more resembling personal issues. *shrug*

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

He's baaaaaccccck!

That's just vengeance and spite to say that he should pay for choosing not to have a relationship with his child.
He should pay (not through the nose- let's not be vindictive) because it's his child.
Children who do receive the proper nourishment and care during pregnancy and the first two years of life are stunted for life and are all but guaranteed to trail their peer in every positive measure throughout their life.
Is that what anyone wants for their child?!!

Cerebus said:

And I don't think that's a bad thing at all.

JustErin said:

And I do. Divorce and abortion are not the same topic of conversation. The don't even live in the same neighborhood.

Cerebus said:

On the org, they are twin siblings

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

..... reason number 762 to never get married.

SUPRMAN said:

Contracts have special clauses and fine print and so can pre-nuptial (before marriage/wedding) and post-nuptial (after marriage/wedding) agreements. Once you've entered in to a pre-nup or post-nup arrangement you have inevitably compared your marriage to a contract. If marriage has nothing to do with tax law then why would tax policy favor it and/or why would there be such a thing as a marriage penalty tax? Marriage license is the state's proof you have changed your status but to suggest that a judge is not needed is quite false and misleading. A judge bears witness to the intent of the parties marrying and their proper names. The judge in fact performs the wedding or depending on your preferred verbage...conducts a marriage. Although to be specific and exact....nobody conducts the marriage other than the parties involved in the marriage but in this discussion I am using marriage/wedding/civil ceremony/hitched interchangeably. Judges, magistrates and clergy all perform weddings and witnesses are required. Judges are the most common type of wedding officiate.

One can be held accountable for a spouses debts not solely because you are viewed as a unit but also because by virtue of the marital status your debts become your spouses debts and the only way to separate that recognition is through divorce or bankruptcy. You can't be legally separated and still be liable for a spouse's debts at least here in California. No one can presume decisions made of a married couple with regard to debt especially if there are not two signatures on an agreement. What if a person defaults on a loan two days prior to his/her divorce decree being validated?

Cerebus said:

Well this aint really about Elin that's for sure. It stopped being about her a few pages and several posts back.

DesireeNevermind said:

Yes you can. When you use a credit card it's a marriage debt but only one has to be present to sign for the purchase . . . .
On being held accountable for a spouses debt, you said the same thing I did.

As a society, we use the law to encourage and restrict behavior. We favor marriage, therefore it received additional benefits to encourage people to marry and not just live together.
Judges usually don't officiate at weddings in Vegas and Reno . . . but they are still legal marriages. The witness is required to prevent he said/she said scenarios, such as attempting to get out of debt by claiming you were never married so it's your partner's debt, not yours also.

Who would sign a pre-nup or post nup with fine print?
What would such fine print consist of?
Why include 'fine print' in a pre-nup or post-nup? That defeats the purpose . . .
Special clauses? Any clause can be 'special.'

SUPRMAN said:

Who would sign a pre-nup or post-nup with fine print? Wasn't that Marla/Marva Maples defense when she tried to up the ante in her pre-nup? She claimed she didn't know this or that and that she signed it without the advice of an attorny cuz she was in love or some shit.

Fine print could perhaps consist of fraud (if someone was gay or sterile or even broke). Agreements/Contracts could have anything in them.

Who cares about Vegas and Reno? Did Elin and Tiger get married there? Vegas and Reno to my knowledge are also places where you can divorce a person without them knowing.

As for presumptions made about a couple's credit card debt I disagree with you. I have friends who are divorced and were not responsible for credit card debt incurred by their partners before the marriage or during divorce precedings and in one case when the spouse moved out of the house. Maybe it depends on each state of residence.

Cerebus said:

Oh well, looks like you might be the only one that cares.

DesireeNevermind said:

But those are all situations where the debt was arguably incurred outside the marriage, so the spouse would not be responsible.
Fraud is fraud not fine print. The examples you gave are misrepresentation, which invalidates the contract period. Being broke, though, is not a misrepresentation. Acting like you have money that you don't have isn't fraud unless you actually promised money, not just having the appearance of having money. If he appears to have money but you marry him and find out he doesn't, that's not fraud or misrepresentation.

A pre-nup is a legal agreement and like a contract over $5,000 should be reviewed by an atty. If you are given a copy of the agreement and time to consult with a lawyer, the fact that you failed to do so before you signed is your assumption of risk.
If the Donald gave her a copy and said let's meet to sign it next week, or in three days . . . . she has no defense, love or not. The fact that she failed to have it reviewed is her loss, not his.
That defense should only be valid of he gave it to her and had her sign it the same day.

Cerebus said:

P-Diddy

Oh gawd! This thread has taken a nose dive into flava and p-diddy land?




Ladies and gentlemen...we are gathered here today to mourn the loss of our dear friends...reason and objectivity. Although we did not visit them much....they remain dear to our hearts.

Wade in the water....

DesireeNevermind said:

Surely it's not that great a fall from Elin?

JustErin said:

Does anything else matter?

Reason number 763, right there.

DesireeNevermind said:

My bad

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Thanks for the clarification Papi, because it did sound as if this were a general rule to be applied to all marriages. Having been in a similar situation,and barely survived the aftermath, hearing that shit hurts, however it was intended.

angel345 said:

But let me say this, Desiree. My main objective is to be objective. Though I am a woman, I am not taking sides in this. I wish some people could see this woman for what she is, and she makes it bad for women out there who can love a man for who he is. I hate to say this, but the world's oldest profession has become glamorized and glorified. It's just more subtle. Elin is no different than the women that Tiger paid to sleep with him. If you make business arrangements to sleep with somebody, and I strongly believe it was business, don't think it will not come back to haunt you. Also, if she truly loves Tiger like most people claims, or financially stable before the marriage, she would just take the $30 million and bounce or make the marriage work by supporting his sex therapy sessions. Isn't marriage for better or worse? But no, she leaves and want almost all of his fortune. She's greedy and crazy. Her lawyers know that, and loving it. The judge is probably laughing in the chamber. Tiger is not off the hook. He's paying for his deeds, too. He can't pretend, no more.

SUPRMAN said:

I have defended women before on threads, but not this one.

Ottensen said:

As a female who has raised six...mind you...SIX children on her own, I can sympathize with ottensen’s and justerin’s posts. My husband abandoned us when I had just given birth to his last son. He felt he was too young and didn’t want the responsibility anymore. So he just "left." Trying to track him down even for the divorce proceedings was a futile gesture. My divorce was granted on grounds of desertion and physical abuse. That first year I had to steal for my children and I used pillow cases for diapers. I don’t regret one thing I had to do to survive. I made it. I went back to school. I worked two jobs. I never received one cent in child support because every time I found the bastard he just moved to another state and finally to Germany.

I soon realized I was on my own. My children are respectively a dental tech, a nurse, a computer science graduate, an Army Colonel training in telecommunications--(thank you, buttah--for showing him a kind face when I was so far away. Gabriel has now re-enlisted and is in college), a construction contractor majoring in business, and an artist/pianist/college student. This without any help from ANYONE. They had no grandparents to speak of. We were shunned by my mother. My father is a racist bastard, and my step-father moved over 1000 miles away when he divorced my mother. No uncles, aunts, or other relatives to help. Although I kept in touch with HIS parents and never denied them access to their grandkids, they didn’t show much interest in seeing them.

My point is that for all of the females who never see a dime of support money, or an hour of fatherly love and commitment, or any help when their child is in the hospital with a broken arm, or throwing up from the flu, or the mothers who have to leave work to pick up a sick child from school; the mothers who feel heart -wrenching guilt when they have no choice but to leave for work and their baby is crying because he/she doesn’t want to leave their arms (because believe me, caring for a child goes waaaaayy beyond money)...for all those mothers (like me) I hope Elin gets every cent and more.

And if there is ANY man on the org who has raised six children alone while working two jobs, gotten laid off, went to night school, struggled to find another job with no car, did all the housework, laundry, grocery shopping, school functions, used their lunch hour to attend soccer and basketball games, found time to date and or attempt to find a suitable partner who loves your kids and doesn’t cheat on you, then please step forward and tell me what it is like and how we women are all golddiggas and skanky ho’s who marry rich men for money or poor men for big dicks and this is the ‘rule’ and not the exception.


Come on...I know you’re out there.


Just for the state of Illinois...

Cerebus said:

I hear that - I get it all the time from people, "what's wrong with you?". But I don't care, let 'em talk, at least I get to keep my loot.