And if Smokey wasn't Smokey anymore after Desmond took the carrot out of the hole (and thus could be killed with the gun by Kate, however she knew that...) why couldn't he leave?
[Edited 5/24/10 6:03am]

OK I've been thinking about this all day and reading the thoughts on the Lostpedia forums and on here.
Many people over at Lostpedia are arguing that the whole thing was purgatory and they all died in the crash, saying that that was why Jack died in the same place he woke up. But they miss the shot of the tennis shoe hanging from the tree, which was white in the beginning shot of the series and obviously aged and grey at the end. But the people arguing this seem to miss a few details over the course of the series....

Warning: extremely long-winded nerdy fanboy post ahead.

At first when characters started dying it confused me because I knew there was a hidden meaning behind it.....especially with Shannon...then Eko and Michael. What I realised when Eko died was he was conflicted with his past and what he had done, betraying and causing the death of his brother....Shannon with the death of her father and what she had done with Boone....etc. So when Eko was killed immediately after saying he had no regrets with what he had done (or something to that effect), I took it that he was able to die because he had come to peace with his actions.

When Eloise first appeared with Desmond it confused the hell out of me, how she seemed to have knowledge of the different times he was travelling in. Now at the end when she didn't want Desmond to take Daniel away, obviously because of the guilt she felt because she was the one who killed him....the whole thing was about acceptance of one's past and one's actions.

So all these people die, right? One by one they die over the course of the series, many dying once they have reached some sort of peace or static ending in their lives (Jin and Sun also). Michael by trying to atone for killing Libby and Ana Lucia. etc etc They all die and enter a form of after-life or purgatory. The characters who survive continue on their journey on and off the island. See how as Juliet was dying she was ALREADY having the same conversation as in her reuinion with Sawyer? She said "it worked", thinking that what she was seeing was another reality, which is what the writers wanted us to believe up until the end. Now this afterlife is evident through the whispers that everyone hears, and evident throughout the show through Hurley and Miles speaking / seeing the dead.

So all the things on the island actually happened. There is a chain of guardians, starting well before Jacob (egyptian or maybe before). Our little episode with little boy jacob, smokey and mama with bad latin pronunciation was just a link in a chain. Jack took over, then Hurley and Ben became the new Jacob and Richard. In the future (unshown) they too will die and other people will take over the job. Jack died happily after seeing his friends leave the island. Frank, Sawyer, Miles, Richard and Kate all left the island and continued their lives. At some point in the future they died and entered this after-life thingy. All these people are existing in an afterlife where the island is underwater. Jack has a son (reflecting the father vs son thing in his life), Juliet is a successful doctor, Kate is still a fugitive but innocent. Sawyer and Miles (both criminals/charlatans) are good police officers. Ben and Locke are teachers.....they are all seeking some form of redemption.

One by one they realise that they are dead.....meet together at the same time (for our benifit) and eventually will move on to some weird form of Lostie heaven.

The whole smoke monster / egyptian / polar bears / dharma turns out to be subplot.....a stage for the characters to experience things on. It's all real and strange and sci-fi fascinating, but a subplot nonetheless. In the end it all boils down to acceptance of life, human relationships and death itself.

Either that, or I drink too much coffee and have had one too many sips of my Frangelico.

Maybe everybody was waiting for Jack, because it took him the longest to accept his death and him being a key character.

Thank you for this.

You are pretty much summing up my feelings and thoughts. VERY good insight on the flashsideway tasks (Jack fixing, Locke and Ben teaching, Miles and Sawyer as cops..). Seeking redemption, battling in between of their previous life and the way they really wanted to be.

Maybe everybody was waiting for Jack, because it took him the longest to accept his death and him being a key character.

Not who died first.

It's not a matter of time anymore in the "purgatory", "limbo" whatever, there is no "now".



I was fucking cheering for Juliet the whole time too, GO BLONDIE!!!!

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

http://forum.lostpedia.com/someone-bad-robots-take-finale-t59261.html

apparently someone from bad robot posted this explanation...

I still don´t understand why Ben, of all people, was in the Sideways world while Michael is doomed to live on as a whisper on the island. I mean, Michael killed people and wasn´t "worthy" of making it to the Sideways afterlife but if he isn´t worthy, then why is Ben? Just because he became the official number two?
He was very evil and selfish until the very end. It´s nice to witness his redemption and how he apologizes for what he did to Locke but why can´t Michael redeem himself in the same way?
He killed people,yes, but he did it in order to protect his son. Unlike Ben, who had utterly selfish reasons all the time. And Ben was the one who was responsible for manipulating Michael into doing what he did.

It seems like a lot of people are confused about the ending, I was not, assuming I am correct about it, here is an easy explanation.

Season 1 - They all crashed. All the characters we knew and loved the last 6 years DID NOT DIE HERE! I repeat, they did not die here.

Season 2 - Stuff happened

Season 3 - Stuff happened

Season 4 - Stuff happened

Season 5 - Stuff happened

Amongst this stuff, lots of people died!

Season 6 - Let's ignore the alt. universe for now.

More people died. At the end, the Hurley is the new Jacob, the new protector of the island. He may be there for thousands of years, but eventually he will die. Ben is his sidekick, the new Richard, he may be there for thousands of years, and eventually he will die. Desmond is with them, but Hurley will get him off the island, he is the new Jacob, he has powers. Eventually he will die.

Jack died on the island. Kate, Claire, Sawyer, Lapidus, Miles, and Richard all flew off the island. Let's assume they lived happily ever after, but eventually, they all died too. Everyone dies! That's life for ya, death and taxes are the only two sure things.

Now this is where the opening of Season 6 starts, once everyone is dead. They are all in purgatory. It all begins in the plane because this is where the most important part of their lives began, where they met the most important people they would ever meet, Oceanic Flight 815.

Problem though is, they are dead but not at peace. They all can't move on. They all miss each other. There are too many stones yet unturned. Too many sins not atoned for.

Charlie tried to kill himself, but he couldn't die, he was already dead! When he saw this, he then had a flash of what meant most to him while he was alive . . . Claire. He opens the door for Desmond, and Desmond opened the door for everyone else. Every person had to realize what they all had been through, the giant adventure. They had to see all the sacrifices they made, all the things they did, the HELL they went through, and they had to see it together. Jack was just the last one to figure it out in the afterlife.

Ben couldn't move on just yet. Having Hurley give him a thumbs up and Locke forgiving him wasn't enough. He killed his dad, he killed his daughter, he killed all of Dharmaville! He wasn't ready yet, he needed to atone.

Everyone else though, they were sitting in the church, much like passengers in the plane, and the two most important people, Jack and Locke, were in the front row, on a flight to their ultimate peace.

That was the tv show LOST! It was an adventure about a group of people who were alone, they had no one, they were dubbed a tremendous responsibility, and they were all LOST. In the end, after they saved the world, after they made sacrifices, they were all together in the end, no longer alone, no longer LOST.

And that is why it is the greatest show ever.

Phishanga said:

He could. He was going for the boat.
But Kate stopped him with her oneliner.

Fury said:

That was just Kate.

AlexdeParis said:

now that was a crazy finale.

ufoclub said:

I´d love to hear your opinion.I´ve been impatiently waiting for your take on it.

Stupid finale for an overrated & terribly acted TV show...

JoeTyler said:

Let me guess, you watch shows like 24 and CSI?

JustErin said:

The only TV programs I still watch: TV news and Playboy TV

Mushanga said:

Yes, I know, should have said, "why wouldn't they let him leave?", when obviously he lost his badass smoke powers.

JoeTyler said:

Well, some of the best acting I've seen on tv was from the character Richard. I totally disagree that the acting (safe for a couple of actors) is terrible.

Exactly.The performances of some of the actors, particularly Terry O´Quinn(Locke), Nestor Carbonell(Richard Alpert),Matthew Fox and Naveen Andrews were really good. Haven´t seen such good actors on TV in a long time. Especially Terry O´Quinn was phenomal in his 2 ( or three ) different roles.

A lot of fans, critics and casual viewers disliked Matthew Fox and found him annoying, after season 3 in particular but I really liked him as a character and performancewise from the beginning to the very end.

As far as acting, I was blown away this season by Dominic Monaghan as Charlie when Desmond meets his as a chaperone. His performance had so much intensity and gravity to it. It was in that complete scene stealing mode of Brando or Dean (in my opinion) in that episode.

ufoclub said:

I also loved the scene when he finally got Claire to remember him. In fact, all the scenes when the characters remembered each other was very touching.

I still don´t understand why Ben, of all people, was in the Sideways world while Michael is doomed to live on as a whisper on the island. I mean, Michael killed people and wasn´t "worthy" of making it to the Sideways afterlife but if he isn´t worthy, then why is Ben? Just because he became the official number two?
He was very evil and selfish until the very end. It´s nice to witness his redemption and how he apologizes for what he did to Locke but why can´t Michael redeem himself in the same way?
He killed people,yes, but he did it in order to protect his son. Unlike Ben, who had utterly selfish reasons all the time. And Ben was the one who was responsible for manipulating Michael into doing what he did.

A lot of fans, critics and casual viewers disliked Matthew Fox and found him annoying, after season 3 in particular but I really liked him as a character and performancewise from the beginning to the very end.